Why is the game in bad shape

8 hours ago, niripas said:

 

Well - I would say that actually this game has matured. And actually majority do play vs AI, random PvP players are in minority now - most vet players are playing dreads and leagues with random PvP being used just to get that purple spot. There are issues with random PvP gameplay - there is no denial here - bots shouldn’t be in that mode at all. However saying that topic derailed because it was discussing the most popular game mode is a little far stretch, don’t you think? Not to mention at the current moment, practice in VsAI is a practice against the very same bots you will meet in random PvP games. From my private point of view I really enjoy dread battles - they are fun, dynamic and interesting. Fully random PvP? No, thank you. Squads? Sure, why not. 

 

You mean Domination?

 

First time I hear about this. There was a bug on this map that you can fly into the asteroid , but it was on the other side of the map and it was resolved long time ago IIRC. Did you actually made a bug report about this? Or someone else did? You know - no report, no bug to fix… Also if there is a bug on the map and someone was exploiting it knowing that it’s a bug - it’s a bannable offence. 

Most popular? Can we get some numbers on that? And if so, why is that? Do you know any other game in which playing against bots is more popular then PvP? You can send those videos where you dogfight bots, I look forward seeing them. Did you try Wolfhound for it?

 

Game mode Wittman is reffering to is Four lives.  That mode is often played but its not the thing that bothers me most. It s the less maps in rotation that is the problem. 

 

Co-op gets most of the tasks done that you can do in PvP, and honestly I’d rather go against bots with Tai’Kin rather than Thi’Lith Sparks, or tacklers with the Beam Disintegrator.

Warframe is a good example, almost no one cares about PvP in there.

 

 

2 hours ago, xXThunderFlameXx said:

Co-op gets most of the tasks done that you can do in PvP, and honestly I’d rather go against bots with Tai’Kin rather than Thi’Lith Sparks, or tacklers with the Beam Disintegrator.

Warframe is a good example, almost no one cares about PvP in there.

 

 

I was expecting ElD or EvO.Space games that have more similiarities with SC. And for those two and for the mentioned Wframe you can not say that are PvP based as SC is. Wframe is based on thicker storyline,campaigns and missions,PvP never really lived there. SC based on fastpaced brawling,PvP was where it really shined and PvAI (CoOp) mode was added later. Better examples for comparison would be WoT,CS Go or WoW.

While Im waiting for master niripas to send me the videos Im still thinking about this “PvAI is most popular mode” thing. So I did a little “research” and some math. I checked the stats of best PvP players for how much PvAI games they play on average. If you do the same, you will realise that your best PvP players DO NOT play this mode almost at all, not even once per day on average. Does that tell you something?

1 hour ago, BruTosGali said:

If you do the same, you will realise that your best PvP players DO NOT play this mode almost at all, not even once per day on average. Does that tell you something?

It tells one thing first and foremost. These players only make up a fraction of the playerbase.

 

Imo Skirmish is a boring modes, the bots are stupid and easy to outplay, they only have a quite good aim which makes it a pain (but not impossible) to fly Inties, but it is trivial to just dominate them with a Destroyer. And you never have to adapt to any new situation, they always pick the exact crappy ships with the exact same modules and behave exactly the same every time, they want to plant a bomb? Just shoot at the bomb carrier and he will turn around and attack you instead of continuing his fly to the station. Even the by some feared full Ellydium team is trivial and boring if you have the right ship

Spoiler

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[@niripas](< base_url >/index.php?/profile/244639-niripas/), yes derailed because the subject of this thread is why or if for that matter, the game is in bad shape. Whether the Vs AI is the most successful game mode or the worse isn’t directly relevant to the topic.

In your opinion the player base has matured and play Vs AI, 1st I wouldn’t call that maturity and 2nd why would we downgrade the best part of the game which is pvp - imo that is. To be honest, when the new layout came [some months ago] I saw the leading game mode Vs AI [its 1st when we click battle] and gave me the impression the publisher/developer wants to downgrade the pvp hence promoting at the 1st spot of the game modes the Vs AI. Now, 2 GMs are confirming that…Naturally [at least in public] you guys should agree, but regardless I don’t, not to mention that 2 opinions plus a few alts of yours will not actually create a solid number with up votes for the horrid Vs AI. Lets agree to disagree on this and discuss it no further but a side note, according to [xXThunderFlameXx](< base_url >/index.php?/profile/255735-xxthunderflamexx/ “Go to xXThunderFlameXx’s profile”)   players should stop to care about pvp. Not sure but I see some sort of attempt to change the game’s character, players not to care about pvp here would be absurd !
 

2late to file a bug report, I haven’t taken screenshots nor remember time etc, will do so if that happens again.

And yet here we go again, discussing a load of things, literature should be next and other than that the TOPIC of this thread is off topic !

Last time I checked the title was “Why is the game in bad shape” and can confirm its still the same. How about we get back to topic and leave the general discussion on a particular game mode whether is the worse or best. That, regardless, is just ONE game mode and I believe the OP means the game in general with ALL its game modes.

Bots in pvp and the atrocity of hot join [joining an existing game and usually near the end and/or with the losing team] are the result of low player count. I doubt a poll here where players would vote whether they enjoy pvp more than any other game mode would give correct figures. Perhaps a vote in the game’s client with say a nominal amount of GS as reward for the vote would be best. The amount should be low but not insultingly low, such that the player would totally ignore, perhaps 100 or 150 GS would do it. Then, if that happens we shall a more clear picture as to what the pvp stands for the SC’s player base. Some may say that the players asked for the hot join, but I really wonder, WHERE are those players now…I’d prefer to wait and get a decent full time round than eat what the mm wants to feed me with the current model. As for the bots, hell yeah remove the damn things and if it’ll be just 1 v 1, so be it. Better than the totally brainless bots which some times aren’t that brainless and will give the win to whichever team the mm wants.

9 hours ago, John161 said:

It tells one thing first and foremost. These players only make up a fraction of the playerbase.

 

Imo Skirmish is a boring modes, the bots are stupid and easy to outplay, they only have a quite good aim which makes it a pain (but not impossible) to fly Inties, but it is trivial to just dominate them with a Destroyer. And you never have to adapt to any new situation, they always pick the exact crappy ships with the exact same modules and behave exactly the same every time, they want to plant a bomb? Just shoot at the bomb carrier and he will turn around and attack you instead of continuing his fly to the station. Even the by some feared full Ellydium team is trivial and boring if you have the right ship

  Hide contents

lMO1dmR.png

 

Hey 'Nator! First and foremost I want to thank you for providing the tool and stats. I can admit that your stats are just the fraction of those I viewed and mentioned above.

Except the obvious that it is a fraction of player base it tells more about that particular mode and the character of the game. It tells, what some here said, that this mode doesnt provide enough  or any challenge and new situations to resolve. That is what drive players to play more. It tells that this is a practise mode that wouldnt be played as much if there were no rewards. 

Fact remains that we dont know the size of that fraction (is it 20% ? )and we also dont know the whole number( how many play the game). And I think it is something that we could know if someone would care enough to provide the tool to improve the game. So it is not just math and facts. It is a little bit of math,logic and personal expirience from this and other games,all combined to give the (meta) answer to the topic question:Why is this game in bad shape. It can be broken down to one thing. Its some sort of careless attitude towards the basis of the game and that is PvP, that drove many players away. 

 

TBH, the game is not in a bad shape, definitely not like some other games that were abandoned by their dev team in one way or the other, like niripas said, the game has matured into something quite complex and interesting and i understand when something isn’t for someone, it’s natural to move onto something else.

PvAi is a good testing ground for builds and i like that + nice rewards so no time wasted and i didnt ruin a pvp game with an awkward build. PvP matchmaking and the bot addition is debatable, sometimes it works to the fullest and provides really good and balanced games, other times it doesnt replace all of the bots with real people in time so it ends up a bit on the “meh” spectrum.

20 hours ago, ComWittman said:

[@niripas](< base_url >/index.php?/profile/244639-niripas/), yes derailed because the subject of this thread is why or if for that matter, the game is in bad shape. Whether the Vs AI is the most successful game mode or the worse isn’t directly relevant to the topic.

Well, I didn’t derail it then ![:)](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/001j.png “:)”) Merely answered a question.

20 hours ago, ComWittman said:

In your opinion the player base has matured and play Vs AI

 

No, game matured in a sense we have pretty good balance (i.e. no OP ships nor weapons) and there are advanced modes that require a lot of coordination and tactical thinking (dreads, scl). 
VsAI was recently the most popular skirmish game mode (from random PvP, Brawls and VsAI). That’s what I wanted to say.

20 hours ago, ComWittman said:

2late to file a bug report, I haven’t taken screenshots nor remember time etc, will do so if that happens again.

Awesome. If more people would act like this, the less bug would exist in the game.

On 12/2/2019 at 6:46 PM, BruTosGali said:

While Im waiting for master niripas to send me the videos Im still thinking about this “PvAI is most popular mode” thing. So I did a little “research” and some math. I checked the stats of best PvP players for how much PvAI games they play on average. If you do the same, you will realise that your best PvP players DO NOT play this mode almost at all, not even once per day on average. Does that tell you something?

Yep -  that stats for VsAI are just above 1 year old, and the best PvP players are playing longer than that. In my corp (which is pretty much one of the top ones) most players are doing random PvP mostly for a purple spot. Recently it started to change due to Ze’ta mission, though and in general random pvp gets more popular.

1 hour ago, niripas said:

Yep -  that stats for VsAI are just above 1 year old, and the best PvP players are playing longer than that.

It is still less then once per day. And Im stiil waiting for those videos. ![:)](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/001j.png “:)”)

10 hours ago, BruTosGali said:

It is still less then once per day. And Im stiil waiting for those videos. ![:)](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/001j.png “:)”)

 

looks like I have to make a new one - I removed most of them during my last space saving event :/ 

I uploaded a guard video some time ago, though

Spoiler

 

 

I did take a look at those stats - and my statement still stands. From random PvP, VsAI and Brawls - VsAI is the most popular mode. Recently it is changing - the trend for playing skirmish PvP is on the rise due to Ze’ta mission. 

 

Quote

So it is not just math and facts. It is a little bit of math,logic and personal expirience from this and other games,all combined to give the (meta) answer to the topic question:Why is this game in bad shape. It can be broken down to one thing. Its some sort of careless attitude towards the basis of the game and that is PvP, that drove many players away. 

 

You mean skirmish PvP or any PvP mode here? Also - if you don’t mind “Careless attitude towards the basis of the game” sounds nice, but doesn’t explain much. Would you mind being a little more specific? If you think there is a room for improvement in specific areas - name them, please. If you just want to rant, then please say so and I let you be and leave this thread.

 

@[niripas](< base_url >/index.php?/profile/244639-niripas/ “Go to niripas’s profile”) , I do the VS AI mode daily [at least I try to if will open daily the game] once and for the purple bonus only. To be very clear, I have not seen ANY of the top pvp players more than once a week. Of course one may claim that the time I do mine is different from their, but lol the player base is so low that I would have run on them more frequently. In your opinion this is not the case, lets agree to disagree but to me is more than enough what I see with my own eyes. Additionally, you your self aint that active as you used, trust me on this I know. Back to the top pvp players, just to complete this part of my post, because I do a lot of pvp daily [and again if I do open the game daily - try to] I know very well which are these players. One of them is john161 that has a different in-game name. I’m naming just 1 player as he is present [at the forum], and haven’t seen him in VS AI. Not sure whether it is coicidential but since he’s here may as well reply on this.

 

3 times so far I have posted in this thread that the subject in hand [VS AI] isn’t the thread’s topic and yet we continue to discuss this taking the whole thing elsewhere. May we get back to the OP’s spirit and talk about the true subject !

On 12/4/2019 at 10:28 AM, niripas said:

 

looks like I have to make a new one - I removed most of them during my last space saving event :/ 

I uploaded a guard video some time ago, though

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I did take a look at those stats - and my statement still stands. From random PvP, VsAI and Brawls - VsAI is the most popular mode. Recently it is changing - the trend for playing skirmish PvP is on the rise due to Ze’ta mission. 

 

 

You mean skirmish PvP or any PvP mode here? Also - if you don’t mind “Careless attitude towards the basis of the game” sounds nice, but doesn’t explain much. Would you mind being a little more specific? If you think there is a room for improvement in specific areas - name them, please. If you just want to rant, then please say so and I let you be and leave this thread.

 

Well , alow me to retort…I mean PvP in general, all PvP mods. There are 5 PvP mods, none of them is skirmish PvP. Thats doesnt exist. In strict game terms Skirmish is PvAI. In general, everything that is not PvP is PvAI (PvE, SpecOPs, adn Skirmish). So 5 PvP mods, 3 PvAI, with Skirmish being the last implemented. So, PvP is the basis.

This thread is part of Suggestions/Miscellaneous, so not to much specifics, some may say. But, there are specific topic in this Suggestion part of forum, you can read it many players gave their suggestions, and lots of discussions )none regarding PvAI ,like ther is something that needs to be discussed)).

If you read my rantlike posts carefully, you would find two specific suggestios that would improve the game. First, is to make a counter for online players searching for matches. Second is to remove the bots from PvP. Those are not ne suggestions, some already suggested the same in specific part of forum. And nothing was done about that and it was not even answered. Ok, Orca answered finally, that removing the bots isnt considered. Why is that? And how about that counter then?

If we had that counter, we could decide on what and when to play. Also we wouldnt have this discussion. 

I have some more specific miscellaneous suggestions. 

Still, EU players have high ping on RU and US servers, et vice versa. Fix that, it will improve the game.

Put more maps in rotation. It will improve the game.

Some maps are to small to take 4 dessies on each side and to be playable. Fix it, it will improve the game.

Enlarge the player base, it will improve the game. My highly optimistic bet is that there arent more then 1k players. Prove me wrong, it will improve the game.

Return old players that left, it will improve the game.

Stop saying that PvAI is the best and most popular mode cos it aint, and cos it is carelles attitude towards the basis of the game.

Make a thread with the title Why is PvAI the best and popular mode and back it up with SS and videos how to dominate BOTS. It will improve the game.

Now i will retire and form a new corp. I shall name it: “Ranting Vets Corp” (RVC).

We even see aliens in regular pvp now, I thought they were here during Halloween [tasteless addition but lets say some liked the prank], but now I see them all the time. There’s that crap gravity alien that pulls players at it, well u cant tell who’s who…Instead off having a nice clean field we put an extra effort to make it worse !

Remove the aliens please, the pvp already suffers as is, no need to make it completely unplayable…unless of course THAT is the point !

6 hours ago, ComWittman said:

We even see aliens in regular pvp now, I thought they were here during Halloween [tasteless addition but lets say some liked the prank], but now I see them all the time. There’s that crap gravity alien that pulls players at it, well u cant tell who’s who…Instead off having a nice clean field we put an extra effort to make it worse !

Remove the aliens please, the pvp already suffers as is, no need to make it completely unplayable…unless of course THAT is the point !

That is called polluting PvP with PvAI elements. Careless attitude towards the basis of the game. Please,please stop doing that, it will improve the game. At least, let us,small fraction that play unpopular PvP modes,enjoy that part of the game.

13 hours ago, BruTosGali said:

That is called polluting PvP with PvAI elements. Careless attitude towards the basis of the game. Please,please stop doing that, it will improve the game. At least, let us,small fraction that play unpopular PvP modes,enjoy that part of the game.

Perhaps, since I see the pvp is not considered a priority [2 GMs already stated that regardless the indirect way] implementing the moronic Aliens aims at driving players completely off pvp. If that is not the case, then prove me wrong by removing this horrid addition !

The alien bots invading pvp was an interesting feature at first, few years ago, but with bot players and extra bot aliens, it’s probably too much of the bot thingies at once. Hopefully that wont last long.

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 6:45 PM, ORCA1911 said:

The alien bots invading pvp was an interesting feature at first, few years ago, but with bot players and extra bot aliens, it’s probably too much of the bot thingies at once. Hopefully that wont last long.

Amen brother !

 

But the whole thing isn’t just about more ai with ai but the way the aliens [ai] behave. They hit hard, or hard enough to cause dmg to already severely damaged players not to mention interrupt some buffs. The utterly horrid stunt is the gravity they throw, pulling friendlies and enemies together forming a ball that one cant tell who is who. Don’t they get it that we already have a lot and I mean really a LOT of crap controlling effects and now this ? Perhaps its what I already said, a serious attempt for everyone to drop out from pvp completely. For once more, if that is not the case, please by all means prove me wrong !
 

Edit: REMOVE the damn HOT-JOIN, no more patience to join games at the end just to get the credit of a loss !

So…with the latest patch now we have a new candidate for The worst game mode in SC- The beetle in the anthil. I mean really.

Seed chips…aside from being broken, also unwanted, not improving the game. New grind…easier than previous,but lesser rewards. New ships…meeeeh.

Suggestion: run a poll before anything you do and do one after. Maybe it wont improve the game but it surely wont make it worse than it already is. And with this patch you made it worse.