Please post all your suggetions for the weapon changes here.
stabilized railgun is useless now beacuse its low damage and fire rate I think
stabilized railgun is useless now beacuse its low damage and fire rate I think
please not only complains
try to describe what you would do to make the weapon usefull
Plasma
Assault
Damage increased from 100 to 150
Rapid fire
Damage increased from 70 to 125
Hailstorm
Rate if fire increased from 66rps to 80 rps
Charge speed increased from 3150 to 3450
Heavy weapon
Damage reduced from 354 to 280
Spread reduced from 1.36 deg, to 1.15
Lasers
Assault
Increase Rate of fire from 60 rps, to 90 rps
Reduce damage from 0 to 150
Rapid Fire
Increase damage from 92 to 130
lower rate of fire from 240 to 190
reduce spread from 2.2 to 1.6
Long Range
damage increased from 170 to 205
change to beam, from pulse effect
Heavy
Damage reduced from 373 to 265
rate of fire increased from 60 / m to 90/m
range decreased from 4000 to 3600
RailGuns
Assault
Damage increased from 111 to 135
rate of fire increased from 150 to 195
Rapid Fire
Damage reduced from 209 to 85
rate of fire increased from 75 to 365
Stabilizer
increase Rate of fire from 0.45 to 0.65
Heavy
Damage reduced from 587 to 310
range increased from 3500 to 4200
spread reduced from 0.91 to 0.70
1.increase the accuracy of rapid-fire railgun (2.73 to about 2.4?) and assult railgun (0.23-3.41 to 0.23-3?)
2.increase shoot range , charge speed and DPHof stabilized railgun ,“hail” plasma railgun and long-range laser (about 4000M to 7000M?) while decrease their shoot speed to make the DPS unchanged.
I suggest to make them as long-range sniper weapons: long range,high DPH and a medium DPS.
3.decrease the overheating/cooling time of heavy laser(10.4/3.4 to 7/2?) it’s unfair that this weapon can have over 7000M range of fire with so much DPS while having no charge speed.
4.increase the accuracy of assult plasma(1.36 to 1?) .I find that assult plasma is hard to hit the target over 1500M while it has a range of 3400M.
5.increase the accuracy of rapid-fire plasma (0.68-4.77 to 0.68-4.3?).The reason is the same as above.
6.increase the accuracy of pulse laser (2.2 to 1.8?).The reason is the same as above.
as for rocket:
Increase the effect time of ion beam missile.After this new patch change,fighters are hard to approach frigates:I can stop the target for 8 sec last patch while now is 3 sec.A frigate only need about 7-8 sec to shoot down me with all weapons on in about 3000-3500M.
Change the damage type of Torpedo to kinetic.I suppose Torpedo is created for attacking frigates.But now reduce frigates’ hull is more harder than shield,because when frigates’ shied is down,they will repair both shield and hull while only shield when shield is on,it means double repair speed.
Plasma
Assault
Damage increased from 100 to 150
Rapid fire
Damage increased from 70 to 125
Hailstorm
Rate if fire increased from 66rps to 80 rps
Charge speed increased from 3150 to 3450
Heavy weapon
Damage reduced from 354 to 280
Spread reduced from 1.36 deg, to 1.15
Lasers
Assault
Increase Rate of fire from 60 rps, to 90 rps
Reduce damage from 0 to 150
Rapid Fire
Increase damage from 92 to 130
lower rate of fire from 240 to 190
reduce spread from 2.2 to 1.6
Long Range
damage increased from 170 to 205
change to beam, from pulse effect
Heavy
Damage reduced from 373 to 265
rate of fire increased from 60 / m to 90/m
range decreased from 4000 to 3600
RailGuns
Assault
Damage increased from 111 to 135
rate of fire increased from 150 to 195
Rapid Fire
Damage reduced from 209 to 85
rate of fire increased from 75 to 365
Stabilizer
increase Rate of fire from 0.45 to 0.65
Heavy
Damage reduced from 587 to 310
range increased from 3500 to 4200
spread reduced from 0.91 to 0.70
I don’t agree with you in assault plasma.Though asslaut plasma has a higher Dps ,it has a overheating/cooling time as 11.54/4.55.
t means that it needs about 25 sec to cool down in a 60 sec shooting.In this situation(for example,attacking a frigate),assault plasma T2 MK3 has only 277 DPs (369 as showed),much less than 344(rapid-fire plasma T2 MK3).
Tier 1 balances
In general all weapons fire needs to come up 15-20 impact points.
I am general at tier one i am experiencing the issue that kenetic does not do enuff damage to shielding, and emp to armor. i think a core mechanic change is merited here.
The only exception i put here for damage upgrades, is rapid fire rails, i feel that the weapon should be more of a machine gun. however, if we want to try to make the scatter shot idea work, it needs to be less spread out, and the spread per a shot ratio lower, other wise the concept in general wont work. this is due to the fact that only 1 of the 4-16 projectiles hit, basically causing you to do 16th of your damage.
1.increase the accuracy of rapid-fire railgun (2.73 to about 2.4?) and assult railgun (0.23-3.41 to 0.23-3?)
2.increase shoot range , charge speed and DPHof stabilized railgun ,“hail” plasma railgun and long-range laser (about 4000M to 7000M?) while decrease their shoot speed to make the DPS unchanged.
I suggest to make them as long-range sniper weapons: long range,high DPH and a medium DPS.
3.decrease the overheating/cooling time of heavy laser(10.4/3.4 to 7/2?) it’s unfair that this weapon can have over 7000M range of fire with so much DPS while having no charge speed.
4.increase the accuracy of assult plasma(1.36 to 1?) .I find that assult plasma is hard to hit the target over 1500M while it has a range of 3400M.
5.increase the accuracy of rapid-fire plasma (0.68-4.77 to 0.68-4.3?).The reason is the same as above.
6.increase the accuracy of pulse laser (2.2 to 1.8?).The reason is the same as above.
as for rocket:
Increase the effect time of ion beam missile.After this new patch change,fighters are hard to approach frigates:I can stop the target for 8 sec last patch while now is 3 sec.A frigate only need about 7-8 sec to shoot down me with all weapons on in about 3000-3500M.
Change the damage type of Torpedo to kinetic.I suppose Torpedo is created for attacking frigates.But now reduce frigates’ hull is more harder than shield,because when frigates’ shied is down,they will repair both shield and hull while only shield when shield is on,it means double repair speed.
I agree with the concept of the long range being more impact/alpha strike damage, it suits the role. The idea of high impact, medium dps may not be a good idea, its what most heavys are at now, and they are killing to fast, i think moderate-high impact, medium-low dps.
range on weapons do not need to be increased, in fact i feel the max range on any main-weapon should be 6.5k or 7.5k (and that is fully fitted for that range). this can be done by nerfing the bonus’s to the upgrade modules, as i feel the weapons range themselvses are fine, pulling down range extenders from 30% or higher to 10-15% is more realistic, and will help the game. The reason for this nerf is due to 13km beam snipes, and 11km rails. its to much, cooperating groups have to much strength with this, as shown by some of the upper tier clans.
Heating time on beams on heavy beams is a little high, but i am not sure if it needs a change. i think in general long duration, faster ticks on beams, for lower damage amounts is the best option. it provides beams as the most stable and dependable weapon in game. Where as plasma counter parts offer highest dps for lowest accuracy, and rails highest impact for lowest rate of fire; thus beams play a middle ground.
accuracy changes i agree with, they are a little off. but the values are open to talk about.
in general i find the following to be true
plasma suffers from to much spread
rails suffers from lack of rate of fire
beams suffers from to much damage, at to high a rate of heating as well as to much range
heavys suffer from to much damage
assault/rails suffer from to little damage
long range suffer from to little rate of fire
the buff to assaults is needed, Iv been around developing games for a while, and i can tell you in the future it will need to be raised slightly 7-8% or around 20-30 impact points. its just a tad to low. and alternative is faster charge speed/slightly more accurate spread
all missile/torpedo’s should be 40% explosive, 60% Damage type. so normals are 40% explosive/60% Thermal, ems are 40% Exp/60Em. etc.
so for I finished the Assault weapons and these are my suggestions:
All testing has been done on T2 MkI weapons
Assault plasma cannon:
- +10% damage
- 200 Rounds -> 180 Rounds
Assault railgun:
- Overheat 10.96/3 -> 9/3
- Rounds 150 -> 130
- +15% damage
- Spread 0.23-3.41 -> 0.23-2.0
Assault Laser:
- Rounds 60 ->70
- Overheat 16.67/6.06 -> 12/5
Testing Results for Tier 2 Mark 1
In general the long-range sniping it out of control in tier 2 bracket, heavy’s are doing to much damage.
Assault Plasma
- Increase Damage Impact by 10-12 points
Rapid-Fire Plasma
- Increase damage by 24-26 points
Hailstorm
- Increase damage by 18-22 points
- increase charge travel speed by 250
Heavy Plasma
- Decrease damage by 115 points
Railguns
Assault
- Increase rate of fire To 60 RPM
Rapid-Fire
- tbd
Stabilizer
- Increase rate of fire to 80 rpm
- increase range to 4250
Heavy
- Decrease damage by 200
- increase rate of fire to 60rpm
Lasers
Assault
- Increase rate of fire to 90rpm
- Decrease damage by 20 points
Rapid fire
- Decrease spread from 4.22 to 3.25
- increase damage by 22-26 points
- decrease rate of fire to 200rpm
Long Range
- Rate of fire increase to 90rpm
- Damage increased by 40 points
- reduce range by 800m
Heavy
- Damage reduced by 80
- rate of fire increased to 90 rpm
- reduce range by 600m
Everything was tested on T2 mkI, but the calculations should also work for other Tiers/mk’s.
Plasma weapons
Assault
- Charge speed -> 1850
Rapidfire
- Spread -> 0.68 - 1
Hail
- RoF -> 75
Heavy
- Charge speed -> 1800
- Overheat -> 10.25 seconds
- Barrel 30
Railguns
Assault
- Spread -> 1.7
Rapidfire
- RoF -> 85
- Spread -> 2.4
Stabilized
- RoF ->55
- Damage ->+35%
Heavy
- RoF -> 45
- Heat -> 15seconds
- Damage -> -20%
Laser
Assault
Pulse
- Spread -> 1.9
- RoF ->190
- Damage -> +15%
Longrange
- RoF ->50
- Damage->+55%
Heavy
- Range->-10%
- Damage->-10%
- Barrel->20
damage on heavys are still to great, they need to come down to around 550-650. the other weapons are dealing 200-400 damage (that is when they hit a target on its optimal damage source) and 100-250 on non optimal damage source (IE ken vs shield).
They are doing these damage rates at 100-150 impact damage, so heavys should be pointed between 220 to 280 impact.
10% off is not enuff, it needs to be closer to 20% (70 point damage loss)
i think its important to agree upon what role each weapon plays. for example if we have 2 mediums, 1 shot, 1 long, then we come out with
pulse/rapid -short
long = hailstorm, stabilizer, long range laser
leaving heavy, and assault for mid range.
if this is the case, then heavys need to be in the area of 3 to 4km range. as most weapons over 4km range, are long range weapons.
i think for the future of the discussion of weapons, we need to clarify, what range properties are long, short and medium. I put them as follows
short 0-2.8km
medium 2.8k-4km
long 4km+
and in their true nature (ie not at the extreme ends of their bracket)
short 1.8-2.6k
medium 2.8k-3.4k
long 4.2k-5.5k
i feel most heavy weapons should be mid level ROF, moderately high damage, with larger cool down (IE most burst related).
Can we set a maximum range for each type of weapon, or instroduce a machnism to reduce the damage as the distance increase. Otherwise higher tier ship can use some extreme build to get a very long range and high damge weapon, the game will become a sniper game rather than a team game. (You can see small pixels and you don’t need to lock it when using laser)
one idea that was presented it to remove the optimal increase from each of the buffs, so that you can increase your range, but not your optimal, this will reduce the damage done out side of your optimal ranges. However be it, this idea is a great one, but will still require a nerf to the range itself. here is why
lets assume you do 250 damage every hit, at 11km. typically it takes 2-3 shots to react to the sniper (around 1000 damage).
lets say he shoots at 60rpm. This means his attack speed is 1 tick per a second, or 250 damage a second (250dps).
now traveling at 200 m/s it will take roughtly 32.5 seconds to get in range of your 5k weapons fire, and an additional 15 to be at optimal 2-3k for plasma or close range rails. this gives a total of 47.5 seconds of dps on you, before you are in optimal, or a 32.5 second dps on you for you to fire back.
32 seconds x 250 = 8000 damage. so you are looking at 8000 damage, or possibly more (up to say 12500 damage) to get in firing range of a sniper.
this will kill most interceptors and attackships.
keep in mind however, this is the damage source of 1 ship firing at you, so a group of snipers are for sure going to kill you.
as a result, the nerf on optimal will not be sufficient. its better to nerf the extension mods from 30% to 15%, so the bonus range go’s from 5250 km, to 2500, thus making max sniping range 7.5k-8k.
lets assume you do 250 damage every hit, at 11km. typically it takes 2-3 shots to react to the sniper (around 1000 damage).
lets say he shoots at 60rpm. This means his attack speed is 1 tick per a second, or 250 damage a second (250dps).
now traveling at 200 m/s it will take roughtly 32.5 seconds to get in range of your 5k weapons fire, and an additional 15 to be at optimal 2-3k for plasma or close range rails. this gives a total of 47.5 seconds of dps on you, before you are in optimal, or a 32.5 second dps on you for you to fire back.
32 seconds x 250 = 8000 damage. so you are looking at 8000 damage, or possibly more (up to say 12500 damage) to get in firing range of a sniper.
this will kill most interceptors and attackships.
keep in mind however, this is the damage source of 1 ship firing at you, so a group of snipers are for sure going to kill you.
as a result, the nerf on optimal will not be sufficient. its better to nerf the extension mods from 30% to 15%, so the bonus range go’s from 5250 km, to 2500, thus making max sniping range 7.5k-8k.
This calculation is right, but the way of thinking is wrong. If you don’t avoid the damage and fly straight to the frigate it’s a bad combat tactic. Frigates are designed to deal the biggest amount of damage and this leads to the fact that trying a face to face fight will be a loose to most other ships if you don’t try to avoid getting hit.
damage on heavys are still to great, they need to come down to around 550-650. the other weapons are dealing 200-400 damage (that is when they hit a target on its optimal damage source) and 100-250 on non optimal damage source (IE ken vs shield).
They are doing these damage rates at 100-150 impact damage, so heavys should be pointed between 220 to 280 impact.
10% off is not enuff, it needs to be closer to 20% (70 point damage loss)
i think its important to agree upon what role each weapon plays. for example if we have 2 mediums, 1 shot, 1 long, then we come out with
pulse/rapid -short
long = hailstorm, stabilizer, long range laser
leaving heavy, and assault for mid range.
if this is the case, then heavys need to be in the area of 3 to 4km range. as most weapons over 4km range, are long range weapons.
i think for the future of the discussion of weapons, we need to clarify, what range properties are long, short and medium. I put them as follows
short 0-2.8km
medium 2.8k-4km
long 4km+
and in their true nature (ie not at the extreme ends of their bracket)
short 1.8-2.6k
medium 2.8k-3.4k
long 4.2k-5.5k
i feel most heavy weapons should be mid level ROF, moderately high damage, with larger cool down (IE most burst related).
If you put down the impact damage on heavy weapons to 220-280 you will need to increase the RoF and this leads to the fact that there are less different weapons. Our plan is to make the weapon differences on RoF,Damage,Range and hitability.
Here a short example on Assault plasmas and heavy railguns:´(T2 MkI)
With an Assault plasma cannon your shots will hit a slow target for 90% of all shots in a normal case ore event better.
In 10 seconds this will be: 322dps * 10s *90% = 2898.
With a Heavy railgun: 316dps*10s*90%=2844.
If you cut down the impact damage to 280 damage you will have 175dps.
175dps*10*90%=1575.
This will kill all the heavy weapons. Further more Assaults can be used for attacks on frigates and in dogfights, but heavy railguns are very hard to manage in a dog fight.
I agree with you 100%. Damage types play an important role, it is something learn in raiding (in world of warcraft and similar games). For example, in Wow there is Bleed effects, burst damage, and raw dps.
Each one plays a very important effect in the battle between the group in the boss, bleeds for example give you dps on the target, when the group is other wise engaged with dodging, and moving out of stuff. In a similar way, Burst, and dps is important in SC.
Heavy weapons in general are destroying the combat. Now, there is many ways to fix this problem, but i feel since long range weapons should have mod nerfs (from 30% range to 15% range bonus each), as a result the heavy weapons should play a role in Close-to-Mid range combat. This as i said before is important to make out the idea of how the games combat will work, and after speaking to a specific individual, i found that it will be 2 mid range, 1 close, 1 long range per each weapon type (plasma, rail etc).
Now lets look at it in number principle.
If i am at 0 km, and my enemy is at 11km, that gives me 6k-7k traveling distance to fire back with mid or close range weapons.
this is roughly 32.5 Dps, at 200 meters per a second. If the target is dealing 500 damage (like most beams; some up to 1500) Then there is roughly 8000 damage taken by myself, traveling to get in range of the hostile enemy who is firing at me. and another 1000-2000 to travel into optimal range. this means, that by time i get into optimal range of a frigate, im dead. Imagine now there is multiple frigates. This math paints a very accurate picture on what is taking place in the battle fields.
now, The damage in and of itself is not the biggest issue, as the targets would be more manageable at closer ranges, but the damage needs to come down. This is how i factor my damage rates.
If a typical attack ship, with assault plasma deals 300-500 to shields, and 200-300 on hull, it takes roughly 25-30 seconds to kill this target. at 300 dps its 33.3 seconds at 300 damage (in both shields and armor).
a heavy weapon will do near double of that taking the kill rate down from 33.3 seconds, to 16.5-17 seconds. This is a huge buff, killing in half the time. These damage rates are around 220-280 (depending on rate of fire, accuracy etc).
So the damage on these numbers is accurate-ish. The only factors that need to lower or rate these amounts of to equate for projectile/charge accuracy. If more accurate, it should deal less damage, and if less accurate, then deal more damage. that accuracy is dependent upon things like charge rate of travel, spread, and even rolls.
this is why i hold the heavy’s to be nerfed to this degree. They are unique, they are highly burst-mid range weapons. the other mid range weapon will be high dps, low burst. This will provide 4 unique types of weapon damage.
I agree with you 100%. Damage types play an important role, it is something learn in raiding (in world of warcraft and similar games). For example, in Wow there is Bleed effects, burst damage, and raw dps.
Each one plays a very important effect in the battle between the group in the boss, bleeds for example give you dps on the target, when the group is other wise engaged with dodging, and moving out of stuff. In a similar way, Burst, and dps is important in SC.
Heavy weapons in general are destroying the combat. Now, there is many ways to fix this problem, but i feel since long range weapons should have mod nerfs (from 30% range to 15% range bonus each), as a result the heavy weapons should play a role in Close-to-Mid range combat. This as i said before is important to make out the idea of how the games combat will work, and after speaking to a specific individual, i found that it will be 2 mid range, 1 close, 1 long range per each weapon type (plasma, rail etc).
Now lets look at it in number principle.
If i am at 0 km, and my enemy is at 11km, that gives me 6k-7k traveling distance to fire back with mid or close range weapons.
this is roughly 32.5 Dps, at 200 meters per a second. If the target is dealing 500 damage (like most beams; some up to 1500) Then there is roughly 8000 damage taken by myself, traveling to get in range of the hostile enemy who is firing at me. and another 1000-2000 to travel into optimal range. this means, that by time i get into optimal range of a frigate, im dead. Imagine now there is multiple frigates. This math paints a very accurate picture on what is taking place in the battle fields.
now, The damage in and of itself is not the biggest issue, as the targets would be more manageable at closer ranges, but the damage needs to come down. This is how i factor my damage rates.
If a typical attack ship, with assault plasma deals 300-500 to shields, and 200-300 on hull, it takes roughly 25-30 seconds to kill this target. at 300 dps its 33.3 seconds at 300 damage (in both shields and armor).
a heavy weapon will do near double of that taking the kill rate down from 33.3 seconds, to 16.5-17 seconds. This is a huge buff, killing in half the time. These damage rates are around 220-280 (depending on rate of fire, accuracy etc).
So the damage on these numbers is accurate-ish. The only factors that need to lower or rate these amounts of to equate for projectile/charge accuracy. If more accurate, it should deal less damage, and if less accurate, then deal more damage. that accuracy is dependent upon things like charge rate of travel, spread, and even rolls.
this is why i hold the heavy’s to be nerfed to this degree. They are unique, they are highly burst-mid range weapons. the other mid range weapon will be high dps, low burst. This will provide 4 unique types of weapon damage.
When you talk about heavy weapons you mostly have lasers on your mind, because heavy rails or plasmas won’t hint anything moving on a distance of 11km.
Here some calculations if you don’t look for the ships resistances:
T2 MkI
Assault plasma: 322dps*33sec=10626dmg
Heavy plasma:425dps*33sec=14025dmg
Heavy rail:316dps*33sec=10428dmg
Heavy laser:322dps*33sec=10626dmg