go ahead. At least I can put the forum mail to some use.
#HowToMakeAThreadDerail2.0…
#HowToMakeAThreadDerail2.0…
Star Conflict as it stands is surviving in spite of the development team, not because of it.
The one and only most important point of all time
I don’t thnk everything players say is right - players wanted destroyers, more crazy modules and guns like flux phaser and what new premiums have, removal of ctb…
But everyone - every one. wants squads back.
That the devs resist this at all is insulting. worse that they tell us to play leagues to solve it!
Jasan thank you for explaing what we are all angry about.
The main problem is that we try to get something without solving the problems presented by the developers. We must make proposals focused to overcome the problem with squads. There are no random players who survive against a coordinated attack from a squad.
When only a team from the match have a 4 man squad then i suggest apply dynamic disadvantages to players forming squads. If a team with a squad win the match then increase the disadvantages to every squad member. If they lose reduce disadvantages. Survivability, dps reduction, whatever. Anything easy to code for devs. It could be stored like a win/lose ratio in stats and shouldn’t be reset when the player logs off.
I will try to elaborate more my idea when i have more time… and if i’m not killed before :013j:
We aren’t going to get back squads complaining.
The main problem is that we try to get something without solving the problems presented by the developers. We must make proposals focused to overcome the problem with squads.
…
We aren’t going to get back squads complaining.
Exactly my say! Thank you!
Thing is: solving a problem starts when all sides/stakeholders admit their needs openly and (signal that they) understand the needs of each other side/stakeholder:
Developers say (indirectly) they need a solution : squads as a game breaking threat (… to Star Conflict’s economic platform/income/livelyhood ; paraphrasing CinnamonFake’s say)
Standard veteran players say : we need steep learning curve, socializing team play or die trying, corps inviting/kicking, player selections, bragging pro-packs, free-to-play till endgame, no soft-coded false presumptions that will only strengthen false presumptions (what? how to augure that into code exactly ?)
Lets deliver a friendly diplomatic note (open forum letter of sorts) to the Developers, SC maintainers, prudently informing them of our needs (and some reasoning maybe).
That friendly note must not contain accusations, nor blames! In that way we would give the devs an opportunity to help us (what is a natural state of being for social creatures like humans: helping, altruistic). In the end they help us have fun and seriously want the best for all sides!
Aye, but the developers should know what they are doing, how to develop and improve a game, that’s their job - their element, that is what is to expected from someone with a profession. We are not suppose to “tell” or “show” them what is needed to be done, to make a game great. Don’t get me wrong, Im not saying we shouldn’t say anything - I am just saying they should know HOW to make their game better - but the real question is - do they WANT to? As it is, they are already “improving” their game (their way) - but in WHAT direction, and what kind of players profit from this change? Evidently not in the direction many of us here wants, or benefits from.
Sad but true, it’s former game design; it’s former core and soul, has been altered greatly over the last year and especially the last few months. And now, the game is barely recognizable compared to the great version it was, since change is the only certain thing and inevitable - in an ideal world this could all have been undergoing a change in the good way, the way we see it - regarding teamplay, social aspects, the social bonding and fellowship and bring life between corps by giving it all a meaning again - to participate and belong somewhere, exploring your cyberidentity, make friends and challenging foes, share ideas, laugh and have fun togehter, fight together and overcoming obstacles and grow together… All in all; Write a story about it in your heart and make it become a part of you and your journey in life, even if it is only a “game”, and a “cyberlife” it affects us, since we are spending time and feelings into it. We need this social aspect; it’s life and drama, the MMO games need it, with it it can bring a decent game to an awesome level - vibrant and dynamic, but without it… it will tear it down to nothing more but ash and dust.
Lets deliver a friendly diplomatic note (open forum letter of sorts) to the Developers, SC maintainers, prudently informing them of our needs (and some reasoning maybe).
That friendly note must not contain accusations, nor blames! In that way we would give the devs an opportunity to help us (what is a natural state of being for social creatures like humans: helping, altruistic). In the end they help us have fun and seriously want the best for all sides!
And I am telling you there is no solution, because every solution ever attempted just makes the problem worse.
First off, any solution that assumes squads are automatically a force multiplier will punish casual squadding, which in turn means that squads are only used by more experienced players - thus leading to the mess we have now.
Second, requiring squads to face each other leads to the situation of casuals constantly facing off against veterans, leading to the same problem as above.
Third, any “creep” mechanic, whereby a squad is matched against progressively harder opponents, is going to be resented by a majority of players because they will see it as the game deliberately trying to make them lose.
The solutions are not mechanical. They can never be mechanical. The only solution is a meta solution - to push the community to become better organised and more skilled, ensuring the gap between pro squads and your average player is not so wide. You need a large player base so that people can queue around bad squads and still play with friends. You need incentives that make it more profitable for veterans to play in Tier 4 and 5, not 2 and 3 (the game currently does the exact opposite!). That’s all you can do - this mystical solution that allows people to squad with friends and training corps, but also protects them from ESB does not exist.
Or just make a launch button for squads. In there randoms can join if they want to play. Like you have PVP/PVE make a Squad one so random players that don’t want to join can play regular PVP, and those that want to play with organised squads can join them as a random.
Btw I had a few fun matches yesterday. No destroyers in them, all known players like Catbox (yeah my friend is alive & still kicking a*** in SC), Cr0, Vohvelielain, ShapeShifter, Posipaka & a few others. Was nice to see tight T5 matches in balanced teams. But this is so rare, most matches you get unorganised teams that run arround the map without any real goal…
Or just make a launch button for squads. In there randoms can join if they want to play. Like you have PVP/PVE make a Squad one so random players that don’t want to join can play regular PVP, and those that want to play with organised squads can join them as a random.
Btw I had a few fun matches yesterday. No destroyers in them, all known players like Catbox (yeah my friend is alive & still kicking a*** in SC), Cr0, Vohvelielain, ShapeShifter, Posipaka & a few others. Was nice to si tight T5 matches in balanced teams. But this is so rare, most matches you get unorganised teams that run arround the map without any real goal…
Having a solo mode and a PvP mode together seems a good solution, but it will ultimately slow down the development of the player base. In theory that won’t be a problem, but I would say if we went down this path there should be an xp penalty for flying in solo mode so players are pushed to play with, and in squads.
Having a solo mode and a PvP mode together seems a good solution, but it will ultimately slow down the development of the player base. In theory that won’t be a problem, but I would say if we went down this path there should be an xp penalty for flying in solo mode so players are pushed to play with, and in squads.
Don’t belive it will slow down the development coz:
-
They would be able to join squad mode and learn
-
no squads to stomp them in PVP (this was the most anoying thing for me at start). This will speed up lvl ships
and I would make this exclusive T5 launch mode so all squads would go at the same tech lvl and so there is no long wait times
Don’t belive it will slow down the development coz:
They would be able to join squad mode and learn
no squads to stomp them in PVP (this was the most anoying thing for me at start). This will speed up lvl ships
and I would make this exclusive T5 launch mode so all squads would go at the same tech lvl and so there is no long wait times
-
Yes, this is something they should do, but not everyone will if they can chicken out. Think about how people used to skip T4 entirely by using PvE. Hell, they probably still do.
-
I think it’s long been established that speeding up the levelling process is part of the problem. Players are getting too far too fast and not learning the skills needed to advance. If you’re talking about tiers 1 and 2 I can understand the concern, but in the main game (T3 and up) there really isn’t any excuse. That’s when players need to step up and start treating Star Conflict as a team game.
Making it T5 exclusive will massively skew the results in favour of the false narrative. Making it T3 and up will allow players of all stripes to benefit from squads and give an opportunity to demonstrate why the dev’s lies about squads being bad are, well, lies.
Yes, this is something they should do, but not everyone will if they can chicken out. Think about how people used to skip T4 entirely by using PvE. Hell, they probably still do.
I think it’s long been established that speeding up the levelling process is part of the problem. Players are getting too far too fast and not learning the skills needed to advance. If you’re talking about tiers 1 and 2 I can understand the concern, but in the main game (T3 and up) there really isn’t any excuse. That’s when players need to step up and start treating Star Conflict as a team game.
Making it T5 exclusive will massively skew the results in favour of the false narrative. Making it T3 and up will allow players of all stripes to benefit from squads and give an opportunity to demonstrate why the dev’s lies about squads being bad are, well, lies.
I’m thinking T5 mostley because that way all squads would go to the same tech lvl.
Which is fine if you only want one kind of squad, but nobody I know IRL plays T5
…
It’s not about the game and the players anymore. It’s all about the profit, no matter the cost.
Which is fine if you only want one kind of squad, but nobody I know IRL plays T5
It’s more about getting games faster. And larger matches.
It’s more about getting games faster. And larger matches.
No, this thread is about bringing squads back. Just putting them solely in T5 will only give the Devs more evidence that squads are bad.
Squads benefit players of all levels, but the lower end - the inexperienced, the “casual”, the social etc. are not found in T5 as much, if at all. T5 is dominated by the kind of players the Devs insist only want squads so they can farm new players. As such, putting squads back in T5 alone will mean a disproportionate number of squads are composed of killteams, which in turn will then be used by the Devs as evidence that they need to take squads away again.
Putting squads back at all levels allows the other kinds of squads to come forward as well. Yes, T5 will be a killsquad haven, but you’ll get much more social squads and training flights in T3, and even more if you open T1 and T2 up to squadding.
This is about dispelling the lies and misinformation that is being spread, and making a pilot study in an environment that is going to give skewed data won’t help our case.
@ntboble and avarshina
dont forget, most of the squad posts have no problems of only having squads in lategame.
we never had that before. to assume 4 randoms get slaughtered and other wild dreams - these are the things that have to stop as “default setting”, because they are bad feedback. they portrait a situation in its worst case (4 randoms in a squad vs. a corp squad) to be the standard case. it just never was.
this is why it would be wise to start with r9+ just to have t4 for more casual squads, t5 for more serious squads
also, the playerbase currently usually in r15 has enough free roamers who are good enough to beat squads as randoms
and with dynamic weight, harder squads would get harder randoms if they face a not so hard squad, which may even be at a disadvantage to play together.
with permanent “squad is better” assumption however, the less sophisticated squad is always assumed to be good enough, even if they arent. its hard to start to squad. it was totally not hard to start to squad when most of us started. if you had tons of squads in the queue, it didnt matter that one game was too hard. you met others in the next game. also, sometimes you had an experienced squad, an unexperienced squad vs. 2 mediocre squads, etc. which produces really interesting results.
as a 4squad facing 2 2 squads can also be quite dangerous, if the game itself is 12v12. having 2 people who independently attack in the back, while the rest is defended by another squad with engi+command is quite an uphill battle.
in the end, most frigate or destro balls in tourney are a sign, that nobody shows them, this isnt the only valid tactic. and every “team based” setup suffers from the missing exercise of mixed squad-random-team-pvp and slowly dies in population.
as said, think about yourselves, in a time where you want to go R15 matches, because you expect hard enemies, and you discover, its not the case.
if you encounter e.g. a good old 8-men-team with some stupid tactic, you cannot break with pilots who have incomplete fits, secretly, you must whish them to encounter another bigger fish in the next round.
sometimes, when i soloed, and suddenly, i was in a nova vs. esb game, things weren’t so dark.
its bad if you develop a game only to make everybody win. it wont happen, you will lose games.
if you have a squad kill streak, i dont mind if the squad gets a bonus round and faces 16 randoms alone in an async deathmatch 
pinata round!
the larger a battle is, the less a squad does everything and becomes more the core of your team, often also providing logistics (engi, command), its still just max 4 players who play together, nothing more, nothing less.
it still depends on the TEAM to win.
Btw. often the game actually switched after a while even against strong squads, but the time ran out. Finding the team spirit with random wingmen needs a few matches anyway, i dont think someone who soloes t5 will resign just of one bad match - atm. you can sometimes already spawn into a lost match anyway.
problem with squads below R15 is only, that they might have better ships than the average, but in R15 queue that should not be the case over long periods of time.
Also, this would entice more leagues aswell. atm. there is no stepping stone into leagues.
… it’s former core and soul, has been altered greatly over the last year and especially the last few months
… this could all have been undergoing a change in the good way, the way we see it - regarding teamplay, social aspects, the social bonding and fellowship and bring life between corps by giving it all a meaning again - to participate and belong somewhere, exploring your cyberidentity, make friends and challenging foes, share ideas, laugh and have fun togehter, fight together and overcoming obstacles and grow together…
…
We need this social aspect; it’s life and drama, the MMO games need it, with it it can bring a decent game to an awesome level - vibrant and dynamic, but without it… it will tear it down to nothing more but ash and dust.
Phoenixfire is right – thats the aspects I also tried to show, what this game lives on also. ==> Let’s be creative now and find solutions to meet needs of multiple sides.
This small MMO game is still a big ship and won’t change its course drastically in short time. Developers have shown their path (in parts) where they intend to go, and they made it clear not to go back exactly to old status and that they have plans in the queue for the near future , and that they hear the community and asked for help / ideas with new ships, destroyers from the community.
They will naturally tend to go through this time of changes (w/ applause & complaints) with a stiff neck and see, what to change with their new game … lets say after the summer or after autumn.
Now: What can the veteran players do, if they are no longer served with the convenience of squad in PvP?
* Pay monthly GS for it?
* Organize themselves outside of the SC game?
* Come up with creative, intelligent solutions?
And I am telling you there is no solution,
The solutions are not mechanical. They can never be mechanical. The only solution is a meta solution - to push the community to become better organised and more skilled, ensuring the gap between pro squads and your average player is not so wide. You need a large player base so that people can queue around bad squads and still play with friends. You need incentives that make it more profitable for veterans to play in Tier 4 and 5, not 2 and 3 (the game currently does the exact opposite!). That’s all you can do - this mystical solution that allows people to squad with friends and training corps, but also protects them from ESB does not exist.
Applause and I believe in your expertise! Well, I need such expertise (maybe myself more than others) because I also see how things went down and how good nice fella players get to their blanck nerves… :013:
A minor comment>
#1 - “no solution” – a possible drastical solution could be to shut it of (as the devs did already)
#2 - “meta solution” – lets start, lets spread words in the community lets be creative…