Will there be a time limit on this? Might be a bit awkward if the captain is invincible all match if no more players join…
I don’t think they’d make captain invincible but rather not elect any captain until enough ppl join.
@Katriaava
A game have to be interesting to be played, not having a small queing time, this will come with more players.
“A game impose his playstyle, his players improve it” is a sentence that I readed and improved for starcraft II but it can also be for any other games.
Who are you talking to?
If you talk to me I only proposed an idea with the wave system to improve the current buggy MM wich I explained why.
Things only needs to be improved in my point of view, not necessarly deleted.
I am productive, what the xxxx are you saying?
If you didn’t talked to me, sorry ^^
What is the “alternative” you are talking about? (edit: My bad, I understood after for this point ^^)
Also, where is the source of the playerbase being bigger? And even if it is true, you know that there was a general mail sent to every account saying that there was an update so players came back to see but you shouldnt say that too quickly…
@residente
Oh yeah, that is a good idea here 
@Ketriavaa
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As I said if it is good for the game I m gladly accepting it. Everything ******* thing that is good for this game.
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Being loud does not make you right. - if i wanted to be loud i would use UPPERCASES.
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I already said that this patch has amazing new stuff in my previous posts and I already expressed my admiration to devs .
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Do so productively - Really? And what a hell I m doing here? Entertain U? I just making suggestions and giving new ideas for better tuning and expressing my opinions - nothing more - It is called feedback. Why? Because I like this game. If u don’t like my posts it well its your problem. If there is any problem with my posts there is Error or other mods and devs to correct me. Try to understand motives and wishes of other people before u spit on them. Or at least try to carefully read other people posts.
@all
- maybe my words sound too strong when I want to critic something or state my opinion. But that is because my english is very rusty and not because I want to harm this game or to offend somebody. Its a very good game and I want to spend time next couple of years playing it.
@maxer001 +1
@ALL
Let me resume the current solutions proposed for PVP:
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millanbell: A general suggestion: make the waiting at the start of the battle longer (30 seconds maybe) and add people during that time. Afterwards, only add people to the game if it is really necessary, for example if there is a disconnect.
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Eviscerador talking about “team battle”: Why don’t give it 40 kills and battle 8 minutes as it was before?
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Mecronmancer: We need moar hamsters!
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DEVS propose Captain not being killable before enought people in battle.
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Residente propose not electing Captain in combat recon until there is enought people in the game
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I propose a timer for waves of new players so both the players in-game and the backup currently spectating knows when the backup will come and the said backup can prepare itself with counter-pick so the teamwork don’t die.
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I suggest that the bombs don’t spawn until there is enought players in “plant the bomb”
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No ideas for wasting ammunitions when you come into a game lost…
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Some players recommends doing adds for star conflict on youtube or any website of the genre to increase the player base so the MM will find more players.
There are issues to iron out, both in the new MM and the Dread battles, because there are bugs, yes.
@less teamwork and carry games;
Honestly, CO&Recon spam, as well as Guard/ECM/LRF/Tackler spam was always present. Except you fight against the vets of the vets, then I do not know if you could call it Gunship Spam, and of course occasionally you also have an (usually accidental) engi spam, leaving only the poor command to be less spam, and therefore good for vegetarians. But yeah I even saw 90% of the team taking (cruise ffs) commands, so I seen it all.
TL;DR; all imho.
Learning teamwork in pub games is harder with a diverse population like nowadays, where most T3s end up being new players and players with around 1 year of service, so it is actually a lot easier to play wrong; but easier by first reading the forums, asking veterans or taking their comments into consideration (trust me - some understand more than you think, and might even recognize their own past thoughts in others), learning from youtube videos, etc. because there is more documented stuff nowadays.
Before such videos btw. get made, people have to also show the interest in watching them, talk about them, engage the theory, it does not help if we have 100 new wannabe utube stars making mediocre reviews. Nobody understands a video about a specific game, before he does not learn its basics, so while DayZ videos can tell you a nice story about zombies even if you have no idea how to play arma, star conflict like strategy games or similar will only show things, if you actually know what you are looking for. Also, people who make good videos usually use meta content, they need to have some crowd intelligence pointing them to gameplay videos of players, they can study. It is actually work to make really good youtube videos, and if you are not creating them, you can also help by watching them.
To truly start to “carry”, one has not just acquire skill in a particular killer ship, like a CO or Gunship, but also to learn other roles like engineer, command, proper tacklers (so not the fly-around-poop-drones type, but the “I slow stuff for the team type”); learning to equip your decks accordingly (having a captain ship like an ECM, a support ship like an engi, a damage ship like a gunship, and an objective based ship like a Recon, e.g.); to have multiple choices in the roles, instead of bringing double LRF which is fine if you only want to be famous to be good at using guns.
Understand to read the team composition, and choose a ship that accordingly will push them towards victory. Understanding enemy composition, and knowing where to hurt them. But also knowing that teamwork is not just, what “I can do” and “how am I the hero of this battle with my higher understanding of stuff”, but also “who i should help”, like keeping an eye on your healer to survive, pinging the right targets for others, or “what is common knowledge” like how game modes work and when you have to move to the next beacon, not to B-line into the enemy fleet, or which fits to use on particular ships (which can be a mix of subjective ideas, but also has to incorporate some sort of common sense and established usage).
Of course, sometimes, if your whole team dies, or just to even the odds, a simple approach is to go out, use your superior experience and gear as vet, and just fastly dispose of ships. But even then, you will see that a vet-co does not just attack random targets, he will actually prey in a specific order, which makes it so damn effective: he will make use of missing team play by easily disposing of engineers, commands and tacklers, following a try to kill as many others as possible, or go to punish spawncamping longranges, or dogfighting enemy COs which would do the same, in the hope, that in the meantime some teammembers actually finish the objectives; or simply do as many objectives as one can by oneself. This is by no means fun forever, but sometimes you just stay in the CO and do this from the start, simply to give your team a little bit of an advantage. It does not say much about the class itself, in the wrong hand it is just an easy kill for a team which found some coordination.
Once you get to T4&T5, where CtB even requires you to think ahead (when do I take which ship, including, what ships do all the others bring, and at the same time, which ships will the enemy bring in the future, once we break their initial strategy), so that your team does not start with all engis, or all LRF to ensure the game does not end in humiliation. To learn all this, one has to actually learn, instead of playing by “own ideas”, humbling oneself, and watching the experienced players’, what choices they make, and try to figure out why. Then try these choices yourself, and also watch, how people counter you.
It is easy to talk about teamwork, but the truth is, teamwork does not work well, if the individual players just do what they want, or only if someone orders them every detail just as far as giving them orders to breathe in and out; it works, if every single pilot knows what he does on his own, what common tactics and strategies are, and becomes spectacular, once these pilots start to interact in voice, and help each other out, by complementing each other, or taking over the lead in trust to each other; but it does not neccessarily need voice, as I know very well, that there are pilots which I can wingman with, without even saying a word for hours, simply because I keep track of his/her decisions and vice versa, and there are even pilots out there, I never really spoke to, but still give a gg, because both parties noticed each other and worked together, simply by understanding the others’ choices.
The new MM has changed nothing in these facts. Yes, some ppl come in later. But they also see whats going on and might bring exactly the ship you need, so no need to get over risky, and do stupid things, just keep up evening the odds, until you have an opportunity, and suddenly, you will have backup. In fact, I see great potential in this, since as an early bird in a game, you have to concentrate also on survival play, which is important for later tiers and organized gameplay, where it is less about how many stuff you can kill, but how good you are in handling proper attacks and retreat in time, and try to not die, losing your team points.
But next to the bugs, fixing the game mechanics to be fair in hot join, and the hope, they get the syncing of the gamestate under control, so it does not lag out all existing players just because one joins, the new MM hasn’t destroyed teamplay imho.
In fact I think the bigger games will ensure, that some learn faster, while the early games force people also to learn how to handle a small-game situation, even if just for a few moments.
I would give it another few weeks, before actually starting to criticize it, because I think, a lot of people have to catch up, and bugs have to be reported and fixed.
By @less teamwork and carry games; I suppose you are talking to me who critisism the current lack of teamwork?
G4borg you are out of topic and did not understand what I wrote.
Just read this, it is the same thing explained by someone else:
Maybe teamwork and strategy aren’t best words - tactics is. In this kind of situation one can’t count on anything - positioning, number of players, even what ship to take because everything changes rapidly and it just becomes chaos. And result is mindless pew pew but maybe its not bad because I see lot of guys here like it (I don’t - but if it is good for the game then ok :( ).
Entering almost finished games is not a good thing.
Starting 1x1 or 2x2 is not a good thing.
Entering without notifying other players is not a good thing. Maybe if new players enter battle in waves (every 1 min but only in first half of a battle) as suggested and with very visible notification (sound, voice and on screen) to existing players - “New wave is entering the battle in - 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1” + timer so existing players have time to prepare and adjust for new forces on the battlefield or something like that.
G4borg you are out of topic and did not understand what I wrote.
I am not out of topics yet.
I understood exactly what the talk was about, maybe you should re-read my post, instead of patronizing me, if I am on topic or not;
The chaos is part of the game. It is the greatest fun, once you see this puzzle, and sometimes a chaos is a welcome opportunity to good support play. How to push your team didn’t change, and the chaos wasn’t smaller without hot joins, which other pilots also tried to tell, from experience.
Other than that, I agree, that 2vs2 is not a good start, but this has already been stated, as have been several bugs, like entering a finished game; What has been removed is some strategic element, yes, how the opening looks, but you can still ensure that with queuing as squad, to have a basic support/attack structure. In the end, the games are often quite full, which makes it seem more chaotic, but as I said, this is in reality just an opportunity, to train, especially tactically (so short term decisions).
I agree to all the solutions making the new MM also fair in the gamemodes, and tuning the mechanics to cope with this, but I disagree about some mysterious loss of quality; For one, this quality is still here, if you see a T5 game popping up, where each player is a vet, and you see quite well how they are going for good openings, for the other, you always had a few players per team, or sometimes a whole team, taking random stuff, and instead of going for objectives, mindlessly fly into the swarm. It is even something I would encourage, since it is a good way to learn from mistakes, I would just advise, maybe to sometimes learn from them and try it another way. And finally, you still have Dreads and Tourneys, where pre-made teams play fixed games and strategies (long term decisions like team loadout and composition).
Finally, it was intended by me to make the post not as a reply, since maybe someone is fishing the forums for thoughts, so this individual might be interested in my point of view. So, no, it wasn’t a direct reply, but mostly at the discussion itself, so not all sentences were directly directed at you, I do not even know who you are, why should I criticize you personally? Chillax. Here, have a mouse, I just regurgitated it, basicly fresh.
@g4borg
I would like the dev impression about their… chaos xD
I don’t think they will like you to treat soloQ as chaos like if it was normal ^^
With all the new stuff to teach people how to play they are doing, I don’t think they want the game to be chaos.
Also, having fun into chaos is synonym of madness 
There is different ships for different roles and different situations, this is not chaos.
I play star conflict for teamwork fast arcade shooter. Not chaos.
CHAOS = BEAT’EM UP = PVE (or call of duty…\o/)
At least, we do agree on the solutions proposed ,
@ALL
Another solution would be to create two differents queues for pvp…one for pure chaos and random (blind soloQ) and another with ship selecting turn by turn like league of legends system.
let me take the time to create a new topic and I will link it here soon 
You are wrong about that. The chaos is what makes PvP so interesting, and instead of having a few vets farming newbies in a game and dictating how the game goes, the games now turn into a 12v12 slugfest where anything goes.
If you are not good enough to adapt to the changing chaotic situation and make the most of it, then you do not deserve a victory in the first place.
@Mecromancer
I am currently suggesting a new queue for teamwork based gameplay
Just let me time to create the topic ^^
You will see
@g4borg
I would like the dev impression about their… chaos xD
I don’t think they will like you to treat soloQ as chaos like if it was normal ^^
With all the new stuff to teach people how to play they are doing, I don’t think they want the game to be chaos.
Also, having fun into chaos is synonym of madness
There is different ships for different roles and different situations, this is not chaos.
I play star conflict for teamwork fast arcade shooter. Not chaos.
CHAOS = BEAT’EM UP = PVE (or call of duty…\o/)
At least, we do agree on the solutions proposed ,
@ALL
Another solution would be to create two differents queues for pvp…one for pure chaos and random (blind soloQ) and another with ship selecting turn by turn like league of legends system.
let me take the time to create a new topic and I will link it here soon
I don’t see the chaos anymore, I only see blonde, brunette, redhead…
Be glad, most of the current hardcore vets had this opportunity as well in their careers, trust me, embrace the chaos, learn to read it, test theories, you will suddenly see a huge improvement in wins, once you start to adapt quicker. Most “vets” come from two time periods in the last years where this chaos was normal and playerbase was extremely high, and it is really hard to learn anything, if your enemy team comes in a premade supersquad, use some tactic you never learned to counter, and just spawn-farm you since you do not have the numbers or players to prevent it.
True, some battles are quickly over now. But at least, it gives you an opportunity right after that; it is much harder to learn in endless 4v4.
I do not know if you know this, but we already had two queues years ago: Arcade and Realistic. It ended up in everybody playing arcade mostly, so realistic has been moved as a single gamemode (CtB) into T4&T5. But yeah, maybe it should be opt-in and all people waiting for a fixed battle should form a periodic non-hot-join game if they whish, but I can guarantee you, you will wait in that queue for quite a while…
@Mecromancer
I am currently suggesting a new queue for teamwork based gameplay
Just let me time to create the topic ^^
You will see
No. We already have plenty of opportunities to do teamwork-based gameplay: Weekly tournaments, dreadnought battles which now have a soloqueue option, and regular squads in PvP.
We don’t need a seperate queue, that would literally just throw everything out of order. You’re not taking advantage of the opportunities that are already here.
lol, you think that having a weekly tournament and daily dreadnought will keeps players that want teamwork in the game?
I want to have the opportunity to have a Draft queue.
[http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/28134-pvp-divided-into-two-different-queues/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/28134-pvp-divided-into-two-different-queues/)
I didn’t made a wall of text guys, come on \o/
Be glad, most of the current hardcore vets had this opportunity as well in their careers, trust me, embrace the chaos, learn to read it, test theories, you will suddenly see a huge improvement in wins, once you start to adapt quicker. Most “vets” come from two time periods in the last years where this chaos was normal , and it is really hard to learn anything, if your enemy team comes in a premade supersquad, use some tactic you never learned to counter, and just spawn-farm you since you do not have the numbers or players to prevent it.
True, some battles are quickly over now. But at least, it gives you an opportunity right after that; it is much harder to learn in endless 4v4.
I do not know if you know this, but we already had two queues years ago: Arcade and Realistic. It ended up in everybody playing arcade mostly, so realistic has been moved as a single gamemode (CtB) into T4&T5. But yeah, maybe it should be opt-in and all people waiting for a fixed battle should form a periodic non-hot-join game if they whish, but I can guarantee you, you will wait in that queue for quite a while…
^this^
Also consider that 12vs12 can be seen as chaos only if you don’t have a clear vision of what’s going on in the battlefield.
Don’t take me wrong but I think the whole “chaos” argument is just a lack of experience.
I also went nuts the first few days when new patch was released: i’ve tooked my bubbletackler or cov ops and went so many times straight into enemy lines just to have the pleasure of endless dogfights and brute force kills. I still do it but the truth is that it’s pointless and stupid when there are always so many enemies ^^.
Flying your ship following the right “role” is way more important to perform good in a battle. Chaos came when you just go straight to enemy. Ship’s have roles, they are not killing machine.
Will there be a time limit on this? Might be a bit awkward if the captain is invincible all match if no more players join…
More details when it will be done
ok i also want to leave some constructive ideas tho
opting in and out of wanting to be captain would be super-duper too, without of course guaranteeing you never get captain (or always), as would be thoughts about spawn point selection maybe, or opportunity, to delay your spawn so you can time it with others. that is the only thing which could be tried aswell, as an expansion of current match-mechanics, which haven’t really been touched for a long time.
for the state sync, having some lazy laid back state synchronization, since the new players arriving are still in countdown anyway, would probably solve the short lag spikes, if many people join. it really just seems to be a blocking stream of data too sudden, halting the whole match for a couple of microsecs and resyncing positions afterwards.
@Spongejohn
Yup, ships do have roles and aren’t killing machines (except C-ops \o/)
But you should just take a look in the suggestion that I linked above ^^
we will disable the killing of a captain until there will be enough players in the match.
Sounds terrible
Sounds terrible
Probably it mean that there’s no captain in the match when there’s not enough players, but then it will be more pain since the weak team will either get spawn farmed by high rating players on the other team, or rage quit waiting for battle to finish, instead of a quick battle then queue for another.
Wow, the indestructible captain, or becoming captain after chosing the ship sound both quite like a patchwork fix.
Captain Games should maybe only start if the queue can take an instant 6v6 or higher as basegame. It was a pain in small games anyway, that mode is best in a large crowd, even if it *can* be fun small if both teams are well balanced. Without that aspect, it is little different from TDM, except the missing powerups.
And anyway, somehow, the global fix for all games, being slightly longer base queue time and larger initial games, while at the same time using more arcade gamemodes like TDM or forms of bacon domination in times of low activity for small seeded games sounds a better all-around fix approach.