Star Conflict v.1.1.9. Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
81

I had to test it out myself because I could not believe I understand what it’s written here right. So I can fight now an R7 in my R12 Eagle-M as we just did? Great job lolol :smiley: What genious came up with that idea, and why?

 

[EDIT] should’ve done research first, I discovered Aliskosans answer to why they did it and I must say it makes sense:

 

So now if the T2 player has a high ELO number he plays with T3, and T3 ships with N elo number will play with T4.

 

It’s not all T3/T4 pilots are mixed, only those who should be playing T4 are being punished now for playing under-tier. Sure my motivation for agreeing with this might be purely selfcentered because I play almost exclusively T4 and wished that more players would play here so waiting time wouldn’t be so long. But actually I never understood in the first place why the veterans choose T3 other than farming newbs. So after all I welcome the change, I can fly with the ships I like against good players and learn and hopefully won’t have to stare a good time of my playing time at the queueing timer. I don’t like any of the T3 ships very much because something is just missing (like two slots :D).

 

But can someone maybe explain to me why the Vets didn’t want to play T4? If they’d stayed queueing time would be short so what exactly is the reason?

82

I thought they were going to concentrate on ranks or something like that…

83

I had to test it out myself because I could not believe I understand what it’s written here right. So I can fight now an R7 in my R12 Eagle-M as we just did? Great job lolol :smiley: What genious came up with that idea, and why?

 

[EDIT] should’ve done research first, I discovered Aliskosans answer to why they did it and I must say it makes sense:

 

It’s not all T3/T4 pilots are mixed, only those who should be playing T4 are being punished now for playing under-tier. Sure my motivation for agreeing with this might be purely selfcentered because I play almost exclusively T4 and wished that more players would play here so waiting time wouldn’t be so long. But actually I never understood in the first place why the veterans choose T3 other than farming newbs. So after all I welcome the change, I can fly with the ships I like against good players and learn and hopefully won’t have to stare a good time of my playing time at the queueing timer. I don’t like any of the T3 ships very much because something is just missing (like two slots :D).

 

But can someone maybe explain to me why the Vets didn’t want to play T4? If they’d stayed queueing time would be short so what exactly is the reason?

 

I’m well aware who is being mixed, and it really isn’t fair. T3 isn’t a low tier. T1 and T2 are the tiers for the newbies to learn the ropes. I would be fine with the devs preventing vets from farming T2, it needs to be done. But they shouldn’t be pushing vets out of T3. T3 has the most premium ships compared to any other tier, so those of us who paid for them would like to still use them. T3 also has a rep for being the most populated tier, as well as the easiest one to squad up in.

 

Forcing the vets out of T3 is the wrong way of making them play T4/5. You have to make the vets WANT to play in T4/5. I said in another thread that the best way I could think of to accomplish this is to reimplement the squadding changes that were tested a few weeks/month ago. When those changes were implemented, LOTS of players were in T4/5 because they knew they could play in squads without worry of not getting a game.

 

Also, the devs tried to force the vets out of T3 previously, and failed. Why can they not learn that they can’t change how/where people play.

84

Dunno. Just had a game, capture the beacons T4. In my squad was a person with Katana AE (R8). And he had only this ship. Pilot stats: Empire - R1, Fed- R1, Jeri - R8. 140 games, so hardly a pro player. And he died in first minute of the battle.

85

Also, the devs tried to force the vets out of T3 previously, and failed. Why can they not learn that they can’t change how/where people play.

Because this time it might just work. When I was playing SC the last time up until March/April this year it usually took 4-5 minutes to find a T4 game, sometimes longer. Now it takes sometimes less than a minute and only very seldom more than 3 minutes. Add the vets from T3 and suddenly the story might change, people will have to wait longer in T3 and thus have an incentive to invest in the game so they can play T4.

 

I never understood though why all the DLCs have only T3 or lower premius, this didn’t make sense to me either and as you pointed out is maybe one of the reasons why some players might want to stick to T3. But then in the rare cases where I do T3 I seldom see many premium ships.

86

Dunno. Just had a game, capture the beacons T4. In my squad was a person with Katana AE (R8). And he had only this ship. Pilot stats: Empire - R1, Fed- R1, Jeri - R8. 140 games, so hardly a pro player. And he died in first minute of the battle.

 

In your squad or in your matchmade team? If he’s in your squad, your squad can qualify him for T4 Capture the Beacons. If he was a lone queuer with a R8 going into Capture the Beacons, that’s new/unusual/supposedly impossible.

 

Jericho tacklers are very difficult to find your place in skirmish. I’m up to high synergy with that rank 11 Lance Bartle now, and I’m still not 100% sure of what to do with these :D  They’re excellent pve tools with both drones.

87

Because this time it might just work. When I was playing SC the last time up until March/April this year it usually took 4-5 minutes to find a T4 game, sometimes longer. Now it takes sometimes less than a minute and only very seldom more than 3 minutes. Add the vets from T3 and suddenly the story might change, people will have to wait longer in T3 and thus have an incentive to invest in the game so they can play T4.

 

I never understood though why all the DLCs have only T3 or lower premius, this didn’t make sense to me either and as you pointed out is maybe one of the reasons why some players might want to stick to T3. But then in the rare cases where I do T3 I seldom see many premium ships.

 

Regardless of whether it will work or not, it isn’t fair to the vets. T3 is perfectly fine for vets to play. If Aces don’t like getting stomped there, maybe they should’ve spent more time in T1/2 to learn how to fit ships well, how to play as a team, and how to not feed. T3 is the mid-tier, and should still be treated as such.

 

I’m just drawing on my past 2.5 years in this game for my arguments on what works and what doesn’t. I’ve seen a lot of changes, many worked, many didn’t. I can almost guarantee this update will be reverted, simply judging by how many players hate it (go check the RU forums and translate, they are raging too). And as niri has pointed out, more than just vets are being booted out of T3.

 

For me, if this update isn’t reverted, it will be the end of the game for me. All of the 1600+ hours I have spent will be a chunk of my life wasted, the several hundred dollars I spent to have fun and contribute to the game will have been wasted. I will not be told where I can play and where I can’t, that isn’t how a game is supposed to work. I personally don’t have as much fun in T4/5 as I do in T3, and would like to still play T3. If I can’t, I will quit, as I won’t be having fun.

 

I seriously hope the devs realize the gravity of their mistake and fix this horrific change as soon as possible.

88

But actually I never understood in the first place why the veterans choose T3 other than farming newbs.

It was never about farming newbs. That is usually T2.

T3 had steady population, and usually revolves around casual players (in terms of gaming time) who want to be in tournaments and play in teams, etc. so it was best to send 4 squads into battle. Stay in shape.

Especially to train new players, T3 was always ideal, since pilots playing their first year of SC usually have items there, and can make a pause in the grinding, by learning some ships in-depth;

Occasional situations, where the T3 squad became too strong however happened aswell, but usually, it just balanced itself out over the evening, because games were big, fast and usually endgear.

Also, in the past, there have been two T3 Queues, when T3 was really really stuffed, and of course those days are gone now.

 

Everybody else moved to T5 for a while, but then T4/T5 merge happened, so players kept T3 as the main “pubgame” tier.

Then T4 died. T5 became somewhat active, however also filled with tier rushers, who have more pve games than pvp, entering their pvp career on the “highest level”, to avoid to have to farm for items in lower tiers.

T3 also made sure, people can compete fast: prices are somewhat reasonable, you can easily play your “finished ships”.

And lets not forget, T3 has a positive income, less repair costs, and a very known endgame.

I myself had fun in T4 today. I can adapt with my ships. In a way, this might even work out. So specifically, I wasn’t even criticizing this so much, I am way more annoyed about the Agent-Farming thing.

And of course, players who just want to squad together, have it harder, and it puts a lot of peer pressure on players to get to T5.

I think if T5 would offer loot, for pure pvp players, to be able to ignore all these PvE and OpenSpace quests, I would play T5 non-stop, personally.

89

g4borg has the right of it. i consider t3 and t5 totally different metas tbh, each one an endgame in its own right.

this is my view of the game: t1 is tutorial. t2 trains you for t3. t3 is a midgame competitive zone. t4 transitions you to the t5 mindset. and t5 is endgame competitive meta.

90

Figured I’d post this, as it is pretty relevant to this patch (credit to JasannQuinn for the original):

 

 

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91

This comic was BS when it was made, and it is still BS applied at this time. This is simply an outcry for having easier games, not fairer, not more balanced, not more competitive, simply easier.

92

In your squad or in your matchmade team? If he’s in your squad, your squad can qualify him for T4 Capture the Beacons. If he was a lone queuer with a R8 going into Capture the Beacons, that’s new/unusual/supposedly impossible.

 

Jericho tacklers are very difficult to find your place in skirmish. I’m up to high synergy with that rank 11 Lance Bartle now, and I’m still not 100% sure of what to do with these :D  They’re excellent pve tools with both drones.

 

Sorry - not in my squad - in matchmade team. 

93

It was never about farming newbs. That is usually T2.

T3 had steady population,

the question remains, what is the egg and what the chicken. SC is probably the only game I can think of where “max” level players deliberately choose to stay in mid-level content. Every other MMO (at least in the first years) has the problem that there is no or only little endcontent, because everyone just wants to play endcontent but there’s only one raid with raidid blocking you for a week so people either twinked or left. I get it that it used to be a quest for patience to find a T4/5 match but nowadays from my own last month experience since I’m back, this is not the case anymore.

 

Everything else I completely agree with you, especially the agent farming part which sucks everywhere except maybe in PvE missions where you kill the occasional agent ever so often (well, except in the first two stages of Crimson Haze if you play with an Inty :D). In Openspace it’s just tedious work especially with fed NPCs shooting down agents faster than you can blink and in PvP because it shifts the focus away from the main goal, to win the fight.

94

All of you, go to this [http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/20198-best-scores/page-59](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/20198-best-scores/page-59)

and scroll through last 30 pages, THIS IS WHAT FIXING TIER IS in an essence, no those are not exceptions, that a system heavily favouring veterans, curb stomping everyone else, and yet majority of those veterans are complaining on how “low skilled” their games are, raging in chat on their team mats and actin all high an might how they lost games because of others.

Mixing tier system DOES create more powerbalanced games, that has been proven by statistics and recordings and screenshots and so on and so forth, but THEY ARE HARDER.

No one ever should be “top of the food chain” unless this is end game where everybody is equal, no you do not deserve to have easier time because you have been around for years, this is PvP game for everybody with pretends to be “competitive and team based”, mechanics where you gain enormous advantage for simply being around, regarding of skill is a cancer to PvP games. And 4x Deckedout R9s vs 1-2 Mk1 R7-r8s with syn lvl <2-3 are exactly that. Similar for the T4, Same for the T2. while power gap between r13 and r15 is the smallest in the game.

This game should been only ranks from the start, people got accustomed to the “tier” not ranks, and now they complain about it, just forget word tier, and the whole thing would make perfect sense.

This system It is not perfect, no system is perfect, but this in the core, gives a considerably higher potential for fair and balanced games.

95

Yea kosty is right!

One que for T3(R9 + prems) and T4(R10-11 + prems) is so balanced. Especially when MM is based on some ELO rating(which devs won’t tell much about) so if one good pilot bring T4 and another T3 they will fight against each other coz of ELO but one will be at disadvantage coz of ships.

96

Yea kosty is right!

One que for T3(R9 + prems) and T4(R10-11 + prems) is so balanced. Especially when MM is based on some ELO rating(which devs won’t tell much about) so if one good pilot bring T4 and another T3 they will fight against each other coz of ELO but one will be at disadvantage coz of ships.

So what is the issue here?

MIXED MM?

Or, maybe

Prems having -1 to MMpower?

Get to the root of the issue 1st than complain. You start complaining about prems having lower mm weight, i’ll be the first to back you up.

97

…

and to the feedback about vets playing in lower tiers: lol.

just big fat lol.

i have never actually heard that from a really new player, only from vets themselves.

and if i heard it, it was usually about T2, never about T3, the T3 arguments are explicitly only by vets, mostly of the grumpy gus type.

…

 

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Here I am, and tbh man you never heard new players talking about this 'cause: you never talk to them. Most of the people you speak with are active vets or good players…

 

…

and i play t5. enough to know, that t5 is actually easier (to win and lose) because people there are much worse than in t3.

 

Nope, usually from 3 pm to midnight cet t5 is full of good pilots, matches with minimum 6vs6 and 90% fun time. The fact that we usually play after midnight when russisky are out and poor muricans start to play doesn’t mean that t5 is not fun.  

The only thing that kinda suck is the squadding thingy and how the mm handle good players in the equation, apart that t5 is way more interesting to play than t3.

And it’s not easier at all, expc if you have a good elo.

 

On the grinding stuffs you are 100% right, it’s insane and whoever says the contrary is just lying (also War Thunder works this way , it’s gaijing way sadly).

 

T5 is endgame content, sure it should be tweaked and balanced (some stuffs there are quite a bit ridicolous) but it’s a faster, harder gameplay. End of the story. I don’t think you or others from our corp still in t3 to farm newb, but it’s what happens when there’s no  other good player or squad there. The fact that you or others don’t do that on purpose doesn’t change the fact that you are pushing away from the game new players.

 

Yes they should improve, yes they should not blame p2w or stuff like that, still you are not supposed to be there fighting against them. Cause t3 is where you START to learn end game content:4 active slots instead of 3, more tanky ships, more pure dps ships, faster ships, energy stable ships… All stuff that people coming from t2 are barely able to handle. No shame in that since they are new, the shame is pretend that they can handle YOU in those kind of ships.

 

Btw as Oreg said maybe other ways to push people in t5 where still better than this, but atm let’s see if finally people will start to que for what they really should.

98

 

Yea kosty is right!

One que for T3(R9 + prems) and T4(R10-11 + prems) is so balanced. Especially when MM is based on some ELO rating(which devs won’t tell much about) so if one good pilot bring T4 and another T3 they will fight against each other coz of ELO but one will be at disadvantage coz of ships.

So what is the issue here?

MIXED MM?

Or, maybe

Prems having -1 to MMpower?

Get to the root of the issue 1st than complain. You start complaining about prems having lower mm weight, i’ll be the first to back you up.

 

If those high ELO T4 pilots will be kept out of T3/T4 mixed tier I’m ok with system. Otherwise it’s not even close proper balance or fair games. (u know pilots with same skill but one have ~30% better ship and those are “best” pilots in teams that’s huge difference in balance)

99

@Kostyan & Spongejohn: a big fett AMEN :wink:

 

 

If those high ELO T4 pilots will be kept out of T3/T4 mixed tier I’m ok with system. Otherwise it’s not even close proper balance or fair games. (u know pilots with same skill but one have ~30% better ship and those are “best” pilots in teams that’s huge difference in balance)

No one is forcing high ELO pilots to fly T3 ships. If they are in a disadvantage with their T3 ship they should the heck get their T4 ships out of the garage, whipe off the dust and fight on equal terms for everyone.  And I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what the devs with the latest adjustments intended.

100

No one is forcing high ELO pilots to fly T3 ships. If they are in a disadvantage with their T3 ship they should the heck get their T4 ships out of the garage, whipe off the dust and fight on equal terms for everyone.  And I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what the devs with the latest adjustments intended.

Great idea!

Who would want to fly all those t3 premiums… We got them for Fleet Strength only after all! That’s only 14 ships(for me) bought with GS/DLC aka real moneyz stuff which is useless now.