Star Conflict v.1.0.4 discussion

The 1-2 Rank difference was the best thing ever, sure. But the problem is that, with every little detail the devs tweak, 2 more details get ruined. Those 2 things are exactly what ultimately breaks the MM for many pilots.

The problem there is that not all tiers are created equal.

 

Even when we had 1-2 rank difference, I was usually flying in T2. So my R6 ships were always against R8, and I hated it.

 

I hated the fact that their T3 engineers could deploy remote healing stations, their T3 ECMs could totally shut me down (and at the time it was impossible to fit a module to counter that on a T2 ship) and so on. Moreover, what made it doubly frustrating was how MY team never seemed to have this stuff.

 

In effect, mixed tiers destroyed the T2 meta without giving T2 any new options to compensate.

 

There are issues with the fixed tier model, but those are in a sense easier to deal with because they are issues with the core matchmaking system, and a refusal to truly embrace the fixed tier model. If you know R7, R8 and R9 are only meant to fight each other you can balance them accordingly and you don’t need any ship to be worse than any other. However, that is clearly not what is being done, nor has it ever been done. Because of that, mixing tiers just makes the problem more pronounced; the wider the rank gap between two ships, the greater the potential imbalance, and thus the lower quality of games.

 

Reverting to mixed tiers is a dirty bandage over a cancerous wound. It not only shows contempt for the people who have to suffer through it, it also shows there is no interest in understanding the core issues the community has with the matchmaking system, nor any intent to fix those issues.

If anything a Locking tiers mechanics is a bandage over a ship tree that is more of a support of overlapping ranking matchmaking rather than a whole tier. Every near by rank is fairly equal to the previous one, 2 ranks gaps are not as much in some areas, but the mixed MM was made in the way that those rank gaps would be compensated by gear difference as well and average skill of pilots, back then if you were to be pushed Up you were: “better” pilot and you had “better gear” and those that were pushed down to the mix were below average in half synergized ships and mk1-2 gear.

The problem there is that not all tiers are created equal.

 

Even when we had 1-2 rank difference, I was usually flying in T2. So my R6 ships were always against R8, and I hated it.

 

I hated the fact that their T3 engineers could deploy remote healing stations, their T3 ECMs could totally shut me down (and at the time it was impossible to fit a module to counter that on a T2 ship) and so on. Moreover, what made it doubly frustrating was how MY team never seemed to have this stuff.

 

In effect, mixed tiers destroyed the T2 meta without giving T2 any new options to compensate.

 

There are issues with the fixed tier model, but those are in a sense easier to deal with because they are issues with the core matchmaking system, and a refusal to truly embrace the fixed tier model. If you know R7, R8 and R9 are only meant to fight each other you can balance them accordingly and you don’t need any ship to be worse than any other. However, that is clearly not what is being done, nor has it ever been done. Because of that, mixing tiers just makes the problem more pronounced; the wider the rank gap between two ships, the greater the potential imbalance, and thus the lower quality of games.

 

Reverting to mixed tiers is a dirty bandage over a cancerous wound. It not only shows contempt for the people who have to suffer through it, it also shows there is no interest in understanding the core issues the community has with the matchmaking system, nor any intent to fix those issues.

 

 

HeHe  beat me to the punch about the inequaties of T2 being mixed with T3

A game should make fun. clearly it’s not funny when man with a rank 7 ship to full purple Rank 9 must compete … only it’s even more xxxx when you get to rank 12 should exist. Is it right? I have a high rating but why have only stress the playing? No thanks. I’m looking for fun in the game and just because with friends and not degenerate in the game work. Thanks but no thanks because I say.

Initial implementation of mixed tiered MM was terrible, after tuning it became awesome, and a lot of good pilots were really disappointed when we went back to tier lock with farming Aces and one sided matches, rather than having close one almost every single game. Just because they dont whine on forums for every single little thing they don’t understand or want different, doesnt matter they don’t exist. Majority of NASA “top” pilots back then liked final tuned mixed tier MM version, because we had close games, filled up to 12v12, shorter queue even in low population time, it was awesome. But due to the huge whining of people in full purple T3 ships not able to handle being killed by mk2 R10s we got back into matchmaking that allows for a power cap within a tier. 

As an example, Maxed out purple T3s are easily competitive to mk2 R10-11, and it is much better balance wise than a mk2 R7s vs mk4 R9s, and that is what we had prior to this patch, there is a power ceiling within a tier (well there is mixed T4-5 which was mixed on wrong premises) where just a next rank that you would fight is equal or weaker due to various reasons. If they implemented not the final tuned version of mixed tiers, it is not ideal, and something to tune around, as usual. 

That’s because R4/7/10 are entry points into a Tier. Those ships ARE underpowered, it’s their nature. That doesn’t mean they don’t work nor that they’re unbalanced to the game. They still have some of the best bonuses in their tier. Slot layout and active amount isn’t exactly pleasing, but man. I can guarantee you those ships were THE MOST ENJOYABLE AND FUN things to fly in the game.

 

The problem there is that not all tiers are created equal.

 

Even when we had 1-2 rank difference, I was usually flying in T2. So my R6 ships were always against R8, and I hated it.

 

I hated the fact that their T3 engineers could deploy remote healing stations, their T3 ECMs could totally shut me down (and at the time it was impossible to fit a module to counter that on a T2 ship) and so on. Moreover, what made it doubly frustrating was how MY team never seemed to have this stuff.

 

In effect, mixed tiers destroyed the T2 meta without giving T2 any new options to compensate.

 

There are issues with the fixed tier model, but those are in a sense easier to deal with because they are issues with the core matchmaking system, and a refusal to truly embrace the fixed tier model. If you know R7, R8 and R9 are only meant to fight each other you can balance them accordingly and you don’t need any ship to be worse than any other. However, that is clearly not what is being done, nor has it ever been done. Because of that, mixing tiers just makes the problem more pronounced; the wider the rank gap between two ships, the greater the potential imbalance, and thus the lower quality of games.

 

Reverting to mixed tiers is a dirty bandage over a cancerous wound. It not only shows contempt for the people who have to suffer through it, it also shows there is no interest in understanding the core issues the community has with the matchmaking system, nor any intent to fix those issues.

I loved it. I synergyzed most of my ships under that system. As long as I wasn’t facing T5 ships with T4, I was on Cloud-9!

 

Definitely bring back that old system. The only bit broken about that old system was that Premiums were treated 1 Rank below the max. The SOLE reason that got fixed was because of the Mauler, because everyone was seeing it in T4.

 

Honestly, 1-2 Rank in difference isn’t that big a deal. It gets tougher when there’s a Tier difference (ie, R5 vs R7), but even that is manageable for the R5 pilot. I still remember incredibly good matches I had while grinding my mid-Tier ships, regardless of what was present in the match. I’m pretty sure squads were somewhat broken back then, but the good times for squads came after that, anyway.

If anything a Locking tiers mechanics is a bandage over a ship tree that is more of a support of overlapping ranking matchmaking rather than a whole tier. Every near by rank is fairly equal to the previous one, 2 ranks gaps are not as much in some areas, but the mixed MM was made in the way that those rank gaps would be compensated by gear difference as well and average skill of pilots, back then if you were to be pushed Up you were: “better” pilot and you had “better gear” and those that were pushed down to the mix were below average in half synergized ships and mk1-2 gear.

But it never worked right. Some people could equip Mk I or II modules to a R7 and get put into games vs R4-6, but a SINGLE Mk III piece of gear and BAM! Rank 12s all across the sky!

 

That’s not balanced. It’s not anything close to balanced, but that’s exactly the kind of crap we had to put up with, and will again if this isn’t rolled back.

 

Thankfully, the matchmaking still has no idea what to do with Premiums, so as long as I fly a T3 Premium lineup I get T3 matches. Not going to waste my time testing T4 because it’ll be broken no matter what I do; I’ll get T5, or T3, or I’ll get a 30 minute wait time.

I remember pretty correctly that we used to have a MM taking in count :

  • Ship’s Rank
  • SR (DSR as it was named during this time)
  • Synergy Level of the ships
  • Bonus/Malus depending of the level of “Gears” (-1/ ±0 / +1 in the MM)

Unfortunatly, it was the Premium Squad Farming Era that made ppl write novel of Pixel complaining about it :confused:

HeHe  beat me to the punch about the inequaties of T2 being mixed with T3

i remember how i played with T1 against T2 year ago. it was a real challenge :001j:

but now i cant see a problem to play with T3 against T4. maybe i am just lucky but it was equal teams all the time.

players with higher tier ships played not so good. and team on my side had superior teamplay

 

But it never worked right. Some people could equip Mk I or II modules to a R7 and get put into games vs R4-6, but a SINGLE Mk III piece of gear and BAM! Rank 12s all across the sky!

 

That’s not balanced. It’s not anything close to balanced, but that’s exactly the kind of crap we had to put up with, and will again if this isn’t rolled back.

 

Thankfully, the matchmaking still has no idea what to do with Premiums, so as long as I fly a T3 Premium lineup I get T3 matches. Not going to waste my time testing T4 because it’ll be broken no matter what I do; I’ll get T5, or T3, or I’ll get a 30 minute wait time.

thanks for tip. blood torment makes so much fun. i leave it alone because i don’t even need other ships :00555:

I remember pretty correctly that we used to have a MM taking in count :

  • Ship’s Rank
  • SR (DSR as it was named during this time)
  • Synergy Level of the ships
  • Bonus/Malus depending of the level of “Gears” (-1/ ±0 / +1 in the MM)

Unfortunatly, it was the Premium Squad Farming Era that made ppl write novel of Pixel complaining about it :confused:

That’s because the MM never knows wtf to do with Premium ships. But hey, paying has to be good for something, right?..

But it never worked right. Some people could equip Mk I or II modules to a R7 and get put into games vs R4-6, but a SINGLE Mk III piece of gear and BAM! Rank 12s all across the sky!

BS, R7 were not mixed with R12s, maybe on the initial patch that was hot fixed, there were no more than 2 ranks difference (up to rare 3 when you were in 3x squads)

 

 

I remember pretty correctly that we used to have a MM taking in count :

  • Ship’s Rank
  • SR (DSR as it was named during this time)
  • Synergy Level of the ships
  • Bonus/Malus depending of the level of “Gears” (-1/ ±0 / +1 in the MM)

Unfortunatly, it was the Premium Squad Farming Era that made ppl write novel of Pixel complaining about it :confused:

Totally, Prem ships were screwing up that system big time

I have found the Cyber mission that includes NPCs with Gauss cannons a lot harder. Please tell me they didn’t scale up with the weapon buff.   :fed013:

Can anyone confirm?

I have found the Cyber mission that includes NPCs with Gauss cannons a lot harder. Please tell me they didn’t scale up with the weapon buff.   :fed013:

Can anyone confirm?

Weapon got buffed, npcs use it, npcs got buffed.

Error

 

we really gotta see MM rules so we atleast have some ground for a constructive discussion, and not just throwing smelly feeling at each other

I’m impressed - even with R9 F2P ships in my roster the matchmaking continues to recognise I want Tier 3 matches without T2 dead weight or T4 involved!

 

That’s the kind of mixed tier I like - the kind that doesn’t happen in my games.

Having all the ship, this is less or more of a hassle for me as I can simply bring in any ship I want with any module level I want. However, this change doesnt seem fair for lower ranked pilot as they will be matched out of their tier eventually thus making farming more effective for higher geared pilot. I remember back in the day when tier werent locked, there was ALWAYS 2 to 3 pilot with T2 ship playing in a T3 game and getting decimated, this change will bring this back. I will simply be collecting ‘‘slayer of immortal’’ medal as I used to.

T4 test inconclusive - game failed to give me a proper sized match so I’m not going to bother drawing conclusions.

 

Seriously, we need a way to veto these terrible games.

Oh and I almost forgot about weapon now, t3 have access to MK5 weapon and not T2 making it even more unfair. However, this only apply to T2 vs T3.

Totally, Prem ships were screwing up that system big time

 

i worry it will happen again. i assume full 4 man prem squads will start appearing trashing everything -3 ranks below again

So apparently that hotfix I downloaded last night put mixed tiers back into the game?

 

Not sure how to feel about that.

 

I might finally be able to get something other than the silly 2v2 matches with my T4 and 5 ships… but woe to anybody who gets stuck in a match with me.

 

 

This is still a problem because of a lack of active player population. You aren’t expanding that player population, because you are pissing off your veteran players who are leaving and not inviting their friends. Almost all of the guys on my friend list from [DYN] haven’t logged in for over 10 months. You recently lost the core players of [PREY]. And you will continue to bleed players with your pushy money-hungry tactics.

 

Focus on making the gameplay fun for everyone and players will want to fund you. But continually trying to shove your hands in our pockets will not get you the desired results.

Totally, Prem ships were screwing up that system big time

Well, they just need to change the Formula for Premium (aka (Ranks =Tiers Max Rank) instead of (Ranks =Tiers Max Rank -1))

 

But we will have the problem of the Pirates Ships that will come back extremly fast (Blood Tormentor Excluded).

I know that the Grimm can Stand the R10-11 (R12 premiums too) Match-ups between good hands But the Reaper/Phoenix would be Unplayable in this situation (especially with the fact that 3 of the most broken Frigates in T4 are R11 (Grizzly Mk2 / Minautor) and Premium (Scimitar) and mainly because the Reaper and the Phoenix can’t correctly sustain the DPS Output of R10/11 Standard Ships xD.

 

The MM should allow me to choose what I want :

  • Troll
  • Normal/Fun Games
  • TryhardofthedoombecauseImaRoxx0Rcuz0fmyStatzwhileImflying1SuperSlowGuard&IHAVETOCARRYMYRANDOMTEAM

 

Actually, the Game force me more to play the 3rd proposition than anything else and it’s starting to disturb me.