- Have I really been paying monocrystals to make drones this entire time?
- suddenly becomes relevant after making one t5 weapon and halving my monocrystals.
normal engi attack drones no
Alright, fine I’ll stick to this main point. Let’s examine your claim that Federation ships can tank as much as their Jericho and Empire counterparts while moving faster than both of them and still dealing great damage.
Federation ships have their survivability split evenly between shields and hull, neither one of which is greater than Empire or Jericho’s respective strengths. So the already have a disadvantage there. But, since we know resistance is greater than volume, lets look closer.
Oddly enough, resistance weaknesses are the same with only one exception: Commands and Tacklers only suffer a -5 Kinetic on Hull and a -20 EM on shields. But this is consistent across all 3 races, which means Jericho actually benefits the most.
With the exception of Base Speed and Afterburner Speed, all of the rotation, yaw, pitch, and strafe statistics for each race are identical. So Federation ships are not naturally more maneuverable, only faster.
All Jericho ships of Tier 4 and 5 have 3 shield slots. Which means they have the ability to tank as much if not more shield damage than their Federation counterparts if they used nothing but Adaptive Shields. The only Federation ships that have 3 shield slots are the Guard frigates, of which the only one that has 3 shield and 2 hull is the Grizzly Mk II.
All Empire ships get a natural 7% bonus to Weapon Damage, so there really is no way a Federation ship with an identical setup can out-damage an Empire one.
The numbers clearly show that the Federation cannot out-tank Empire or Jericho, or out damage them. Their only advantage is raw speed. Their ‘tankiness’ is an illusion only because they are slightly harder to hit. Take that speed away with an inhibitor, and they melt.
If you make the Adaptive Shield module un-stackable, you give Empire ships with 3 hull and 1 shield a huge advantage. If you make Adaptive Shield stackable, but remove it’s ability to buff hull resistance, you give Jericho ships with their 3 shield slots a huge advantage.
I fail to see why having higher shields compared to hull, or higher hull compared to shield is beneficial. Having equal stats on both, and then adding stacked adaptives improving BOTH shield and hull the same makes for shields somewhere in between jericho but above empire tankyness level. Then you get to the hull. Since you get around 70 resists all around with the adaptives, add whatever hull modifications to that. It becomes as tanky, if not more, than empire’s hull if done properly. That is better than double galvinized, AND you don’t loose rotation bonus. You can add internal structures to increase your armor HP to bring it to the level of empire and boom, empire armor tank.
Jericho fighters are not ideal by the stats you posted. If they are shield tankers, and loose 20 EM resistance… that’s not good. Unless having low em resistance is a good thing?
Because federation has higher base speed, they don’t need many speed modifications, they can spend it on rotation/strafe/ect. This makes them almost always more agile and faster than the other races, so unfitted they might be the same as the other race, but I don’t think that players fly into battle unfitted by t3+…
There are plenty of fed ships in t4+ that have 2 adaptives, which is all you need as you will get over 70 resistance points to a balanced shield and hull HP. Jericho 3 shield ships have low resistance compared to empire armor, except for a properly built guard ship. But guard ships shouldn’t be the only thing they have or anyone should fly… The guards do their job, at a painstakingly slow pace. Empire ships have excellent resistance and tankage on their armor, but as I explained above, federation ships can armor tank as well as them + having better shields.
Empire ships have a base damage increase to try to help with their slow speed. It is particularly effective on their fighter class, yes, but a federation cov ops does so much more damage than an overdrived empire gunship. A federation gunship is not far behind on dps compared to empire gunship, and the tackler DOES NOT need gunship dps. You can’t compare a lightbringer DPS to a lion. Though, the federation CO line eclipses the lightbringer in raw dps.
They can tank just as much/better, and it is easy to avoid being engine enhibited, as I have stated numerous times, with 3 implants and escape mechanisms each class has.
Empire does not need an adaptive shield on ships with more than 2 hull slots. 3 slots on an empire ship gets you right on top of 100 resistance points all around, which is ideal. Resistance points after 100 points loose their effectiveness exponentially and become less valuable. 100 Resistance = 50% less damage. 200 Resistance = 75% less damage as I recall, so yeah, doesn’t work that well on empire ships with already high resistance. You are better off putting speed on for the shield.
what? i wrote the exact same idea last patch and you said its a bad idea!
I have the right to change my mind even while i’m talking!
Jankeze, when i said Federation CovOps have to much sustainability in a brawl, i did not mean they can absorb same amount of dmg as Empire, if you look at pure numbers of dmg Empire can absorb, they clearly win, but one should never look at the raw numbers of how much you can take, dodging shots makes up for a big part of ability to stay in the fight, and that is what Feds excel at. Each shot you dodge = 100% dmg reduction, in this game we do not have dodge on percentage base correlated into your Agility stat, like in regular RPG, so we can not have proper figure for a dodge and what parameters of ship you need to reach w/e, this is directly related to pilot controlling the ship and utilizing his ship stats to its fullest against given threats.
Ill post some numbers to chew on into Adaptives thread
Jankeze, when i said Federation CovOps have to much sustainability in a brawl, i did not mean they can absorb same amount of dmg as Empire, if you look at pure numbers of dmg Empire can absorb, they clearly win, but one should never look at the raw numbers of how much you can take, dodging shots makes up for a big part of ability to stay in the fight, and that is what Feds excel at. Each shot you dodge = 100% dmg reduction, in this game we do not have dodge on percentage base correlated into your Agility stat, like in regular RPG, so we can not have proper figure for a dodge and what parameters of ship you need to reach w/e, this is directly related to pilot controlling the ship and utilizing his ship stats to its fullest against given threats.
Ill post some numbers to chew on into Adaptives thread
Right, empire is still the king of raw tank, even if fed cepters have adaptives, But the fed’s “agility” is amazing, and it can still tank long enough to GTFO in most cases.
This is a terrible analysys, according to this we all should be flying j guards, since it is a best ship ever
Not sure where you got that conclusion.
Honestly, it’s not like the developers will read any of this.
Whatever.
guys when u add a glow to a ship…make sure it looks cool… sorry but the new glow for fed looks like u are flying glowing loot…how hard is it ti make it cool, empire and jerico glows looks great feds looks cheap. plus the golden eagle is not gloving on the inside of the forcks…
guys when u add a glow to a ship…make sure it looks cool… sorry but the new glow for fed looks like u are flying glowing loot…how hard is it ti make it cool, empire and jerico glows looks great feds looks cheap. plus the golden eagle is not gloving on the inside of the forcks…
BUT- BUT-
UNUSUAL QUALITY SHIPS
IMO the whole Fed tree is messed up.
Empire get 2:1 Hull:Shields.
Jerico gets 1:2 Hull:Shields
Federation gets 1:1 Hull:Shields.
The raw speed only helps you get in there faster, so you can die faster in a dogfight. (a little bit of sarcasm)
The maneuverability is the same as a empire one and some extra engine slots do not really compensate for that. Even purple modules.
I much rather had 1.2:1.2 ratio + increase in maneuverability.
What does speed do in this game ?
Fed Engi - moves faster and can support interceptors, but compared to empire counterpart melts. : I kill federation ones with 1 full overdrive in T3, but when I see styx it only takes down shields and 1/3 of the hull. P.S. Sometimes against Fed I have 1+ sec left over.
Fed Guard - Sure, they are faster and can actually chase you and so on, but arguable they are not so though. Personally I do not fly frigates much recently, but the difference between 280 and 320 speed is …
Fed Gunship. Only a small niche of gunship builds are OK, but only for kill and run. Do not want to insult any skilled pilots of Wolf/Wolf-M and Piranah here, but …
Fed Tackler - well, if played right tackler do not need much survivability anyway. Speed can actually help here for ambush and escape.
Interceptors - speed is crucial here for beacons, so not going to comment.
IMO the whole Fed tree is messed up.
Empire get 2:1 Hull:Shields.
Jerico gets 1:2 Hull:Shields
Federation gets 1:1 Hull:Shields.
The raw speed only helps you get in there faster, so you can die faster in a dogfight. (a little bit of sarcasm)
The maneuverability is the same as a empire one and some extra engine slots do not really compensate for that. Even purple modules.
I much rather had 1.2:1.2 ratio + increase in maneuverability.
What does speed do in this game ?
Fed Engi - moves faster and can support interceptors, but compared to empire counterpart melts. : I kill federation ones with 1 full overdrive in T3, but when I see styx it only takes down shields and 1/3 of the hull. P.S. Sometimes against Fed I have 1+ sec left over.
Fed Guard - Sure, they are faster and can actually chase you and so on, but arguable they are not so though. Personally I do not fly frigates much recently, but the difference between 280 and 320 speed is …
Fed Gunship. Only a small niche of gunship builds are OK, but only for kill and run. Do not want to insult any skilled pilots of Wolf/Wolf-M and Piranah here, but …
Fed Tackler - well, if played right tackler do not need much survivability anyway. Speed can actually help here for ambush and escape.
Interceptors - speed is crucial here for beacons, so not going to comment.
What the heck are you talking about? if Empire has 3 hull 1 shield and Jericho the other way, Fed has 2 hull 2 shield.
What the heck are you talking about? if Empire has 3 hull 1 shield and Jericho the other way, Fed has 2 hull 2 shield.
He’s just comparing ratio of shield to hull, not taking in account of actual hp difference per faction. I HEAR MATHS IS EASY.
He’s just comparing ratio of shield to hull, not taking in account of actual hp difference per faction. I HEAR MATHS IS EASY.
Yeah grammar is also easy.
I’m just pointing that Federation is far from weak, it doesn’t melt like he says. Federation is actually harder to kill than anything else. Or it was 'till they nerfed the Adaptative Shields.
Yeah grammar is also easy.
I’m just pointing that Federation is far from weak, it doesn’t melt like he says. Federation is actually harder to kill than anything else. Or it was 'till they nerfed the Adaptative Shields.
Well yeah people just look at shield/hull hp of Federation ships and go ‘omg so weak’ just because they have less shield or hull than Empire or Jericho.
What the heck are you talking about? if Empire has 3 hull 1 shield and Jericho the other way, Fed has 2 hull 2 shield.
talking about the values, not the slots.
Empire have 6000 + 4000, Jeri have 4000+6000, fed have 4000+4000
I am willing to admit Federation have its merit, but since the maneuverability is the same and only max speed is there they should have more base values.
Acceleration is the same, so empire/jerico one will reach its 400m/s faster to activate adaptives. It takes few seconds more to reach maximum speed +10% if we accelerate the same, but have different goals.
I dont even…
talking about the values, not the slots.
Empire have 6000 + 4000, Jeri have 4000+6000, fed have 4000+4000
I am willing to admit Federation have its merit, but since the maneuverability is the same and only max speed is there they should have more base values.
Acceleration is the same, so empire/jerico one will reach its 400m/s faster to activate adaptives. It takes few seconds more to reach maximum speed +10% if we accelerate the same, but have different goals.
This is wrong. if Empire and Jericho had that, Fed would have 5000+5000, you only need to look at the current numbers :01414:
Edit: I’ll give you real numbers just for you to see.
Spark: 8391 Hull + 5348 Shield + 277 Speed
Excalibur: 5016 Hull + 9099 Shield + 293 Speed
Rockwell: 6165 Hull + 5778 Shield + 365 Speed
According to your numbers Rockwell should have 5016 hull + 5348 shield, but what a surprise it doesn’t.
I find this pretty balanced. Considering how well Adaptatives work with high speed ships. Feds don’t need any buffs.
Speed is love. Speed is life. Speed is for advanced tactics when controlling groups of ships larger than four.
I should stop posting when drunk. Apparently I was wrong and I admit it.
But still some maneuverability will not hurt. Fed used to be my favorite faction in 0.8, but I find myself barely using it. Maybe 1-2 ships, but most of my usual suspects are Jerico and Empire nowadays.
I should stop posting when drunk. Apparently I was wrong and I admit it.
But still some maneuverability will not hurt. Fed used to be my favorite faction in 0.8, but I find myself barely using it. Maybe 1-2 ships, but most of my usual suspects are Jerico and Empire nowadays.
Well that’s a problem of your thought. Fed don’t need a buff. They’re on the strong side.
More maneuverability well they do get more engine slots in a lot of cases…even with same turning speed the forward speed makes the movement greater and so harder to hit 
Like how Golden Eagle has 3 engine slots otherwise it would be destroyed way too easily - if you have bad ping, this ship will most likely fail XD