Star Conflict v.1.0.17 Discussion

my point is that your arguments are severly outdated.  Also, i am very resistant to that kind of psychological warfare you are trying to accomplish. Ultimately you are deconstructing your credibility by dissing on such a mediocre level. By reacting the way you did, to my “provocation” you gave me all the thousand reasons to ignore you.

That is ok, i have accepted the pattern, English forums are very slow on adapting to game realities, many times i was pointed how terrible and clueless (or devs xxxx kisser, way before I became a tester) I am around here, and yet half a year later apparently I was right to the tooth, people are flying my stupid worthless builds, stuff gets accepted as OP or UP, team compositions and so on. And yes i do imply that i am better at understanding this game than most of you here.

 

When do you play?

when you don’t?

It’s actually me face planting a rock at 700 m/s in my cruise tackler.

Luckily I only use this in Invasion, so noone is there to see XD

 

That’s what I thought about mine as well… until I pressed the “wrong” Launch button and was stranded with my all-green Invasion Speed-Tackler and a bunch of T3 ships… in T5. Thankfully, there were only 9 witnesses to the results of that.

This is as much true as it is untrue

The CovOp dps was achieved mainly by Orion and Unguided missiles, if anything, Pulses were never the best choice vs Frigates/Fighters but they were universal enough against all targets.

 The burst dmg on paper from a CovOp was hitting 15-17k PER SECOND without using Plasma Arc and then it was matter of skill how much of that you could deal in the real life scenario, …

 

pulse lasers after the removal of spread became pretty much the nonplusultra weapon of any ceptor role for a long time until the curved nerf. it was easy for dogfight, very reliable, and could dish a lot of damage in short time. true, on big ships, an rf blaster was more effective, or if it was out of shields, a shrapnel was as good as always, but if you say, they were never the best choice, you clearly missed a bit; the pulse CO which sweeps in, and deals 20-30k damage in seconds totally, was the real deal.

 

again, the paper comparisons are incomplete. its like trying to shoot a cargoship with several weapons and thinking, raw damage is everything that counts. you talk about a plasma-arc fit, which has downsides in dogfighting or against tacklers by 1 module. you assume a far too big number of 80% hitchance in unguided missiles; which is again true on medium on larger targets, but usually, keeping your missiles to counter the real enemy, like a ceptor dogfight, or a tackler, is more important. CO with empty missile rack has to hold back a bit, gunship doesnt. Those cooldown times are the important bit, such a test does not reveal. There is no main weapon on the inty, which can damage both hull and shield, as reliably.

If you want to truly simulate damage, it’s not enough to go by survivability; you would have to create simulations, with damage over time, including the shield/hull switch, repair sources. And finally dont forget the range.

 

A ceptor needs a bigger area of attack, since it has to keep in movement. It is usually a focused ship, so if you are detected in your approach, your chances of survival go down rapidly.

 

IMHO, Killing ESB with ceptors was never the crown achievement, except they field their own dogfighters or go ECM spam. They got a lot less tacklers in their setups. They are usually gunship heavy, with good team setups and usually no weak links, and their pilots can fly many roles; going all ceptor is an all-in-move that sometimes works, but sometimes fails horribly in such a scenario. A CO swarm can hardly defend their engi that well, because their fire is too focused, so you have to go all in.

 

But this is a side discussion anyway, since the thing we are truly not agreeing on, are the theoretical things how to measure "OP"ness, and well, we both cant escape our subjectivism anyway :slight_smile: Lets say it that way: once we agree, it is truly op.

  • The DMG on paper I mentioned withOUT plasma arc, consistently CovOps do much better without it.

  • Most of the time “good” builds imply that you have fairly equal resistance level for all dmg types (otside of anti thermal focus awhile back) meaning that all guns are in equal position, where dmg type is ignored and it comes down to aiming, spread, projectile speed and so forth.

  • The weapon range is very subjective and heavily dependable on various of factors, but what is common is that you can not maintain perfect positioning and cover and advance in the same time, and that comes to the point on how enemy forces you to move, and availability of opportunities to make you move (like Beacon Hunt vs Capture The Beacon)

  • Hitting Frigates with 8 out 10 Unguided is a no sweat (with acceptable ping), even 6-7 out of 10 vs Fighters is not that hard to achieve.

At some point Fighetrs, outside of high lvl squads, became food for interceptors, that is why we had so many balances for Fighter weapons and nerfs to interceptors.

And that is why we have game logs, not devs statistics but actual logs (Damn Snib, with his tool it was much easier), I went trough xxxx tons of logs and from Ace time zone where interceptors were uncontested carries, and from Ru Sec Con, my logs and of some others, the figures were ridiculous.

Patch discussion.

  • The DMG on paper I mentioned withOUT plasma arc, consistently CovOps do much better without it.

  • Most of the time “good” builds imply that you have fairly equal resistance level for all dmg types (otside of anti thermal focus awhile back) meaning that all guns are in equal position, where dmg type is ignored and it comes down to aiming, spread, projectile speed and so forth.

  • The weapon range is very subjective and heavily dependable on various of factors, but what is common is that you can not maintain perfect positioning and cover and advance in the same time, and that comes to the point on how enemy forces you to move, and availability of opportunities to make you move (like Beacon Hunt vs Capture The Beacon)

  • Hitting Frigates with 8 out 10 Unguided is a no sweat (with acceptable ping), even 6-7 out of 10 vs Fighters is not that hard to achieve.

At some point Fighetrs, outside of high lvl squads, became food for interceptors, that is why we had so many balances for Fighter weapons and nerfs to interceptors.

And that is why we have game logs, not devs statistics but actual logs (Damn Snib, with his tool it was much easier), I went trough xxxx tons of logs and from Ace time zone where interceptors were uncontested carries, and from Ru Sec Con, my logs and of some others, the figures were ridiculous.

 

basicly you say what i said, can agree on most points. (yeah i know about the tool part. still looking forward to release an open source python lib for this, push me i am lazy)

still keep in mind, if you are contested to a dogfight inbetween, every missile you lack will be hard to replace, and you will not have 80% in a ceptor fight if the other ceptor knows what he is doing.

weapon range is not subjective, and omni tanks are a good basic representation yes, but that even cries more for simulation instead of analysis. and believe me, even the most number crunching guys i saw until now in both communities, are far from “god-level” in doing it, because most of it are pretty simple tables still. there are almost no tools which do proper simulations, which is basicly included in every fitting tool for other games with similar number-play, because you need it, math stuff reasons. and i think both communities have produced quite some nice tools over time already, i like to be more the optimist in this. Proper tools should be done in a lasting and open way, so they stay maintained.

since damage over time happens in small time intervals, simple overall calculations are always false. simulating a specific formula over small periods of t is always different from the absolute formula over big t’s. coz science.

and even collecting massive amounts of data atm. can be false positive, since it depends on just too many other factors.

In fact even if you have all the data it still depends on your interpretation of it.

And not just the game evolves, but pilots actually also progress, and sometimes the uber skill of an old player is more a matter of subjective respect, and will not hold forever in actual facts. just because i kicked a$$ in CO a year ago, doesn’t mean, i am still the king of the hill, if others learned how to kill me over time. There is a point, where skill only improves very very slowly.

All in all, the paper can indicate things in vitro, that are not in vivo

 

still, you should not see yourself as a visitor in these forums, with your activity, nor always downplay the english community so much, since you are downplaying yourself. you are part of us and have influenced it in your pencil-disappearing-trick-styles. Don’t worry, one day a batcat will rise against your evil plots and posts, and your smile rouge.

those people back then are not the same as today, anyway. Some trolls I even miss.

 

anyway nuf said. i find the patch was okay, the ion nerf maybe was a tidbit too much, but it needs time to adapt to everything. It was a lot at once, and I finally also settled on accepting that fake RF blaster. makes plasma fun to play, but RF is still the wolverines tool.

lets see if the frigballs commence.

I can already see patch notes v.1.0.18.

 

new avatars

new taunts

stability fixes

text fixes

weapon balance

 

The end.

I can already see patch notes v.1.0.18.

 

new avatars

new taunts

stability fixes

text fixes

weapon balance

 

The end.

what is your point?

He really wants dreadnoughts to be out already, but doesn’t expect them to be within the next patch, or anywhere soon, for that matter, because of how the recent patches have only really contained a few changes, all of which are, at least officially, non-dreadnought related. 

He really wants dreadnoughts to be out already, but doesn’t expect them to be within the next patch, or anywhere soon, for that matter, because of how the recent patches have only really contained a few changes, all of which are, at least officially, non-dreadnought related. 

 

They’ll come when they’re ready.

 

Also I like these “cosmetic” changes!! They add a little bit of polish to the game :slight_smile:

I’ll just be sitting here learning which ships, builds and strategies work best for each game mode and map.

Guys, I hope you keep in mind that this is a game and almost none of this game knowledge actually matters in real life.

Overall a good patch, good to see the changes to horizon. Will stop all the long range beam fights we see in sec con. Im as guilty as others of doing this but not because it was enjoyable just very effective.

 

Also this…

 

 

LOL you can now interrupt reversed thrusters?! THIS will definitely upset some people… whatya think bout dat, JC??   005j.png

 

Could always be interupted, think this was added just to remind people that it could. Still funny for those lrf ‘killers’ to appear right in front of u 2 secs after hitting it snowgirl.gif

 

Mk5 plasmas are super fun now although i can see them becoming the new pulse laser. Ridiculous crit builds on covops being the order of the day only without having to get in really close.

 

Pos cannon change not needed imo, i find it more difficult to use as im still adjusting for the barrel slowdown.  01111.png  Gauss cannon change was needed it tickled inties in T5 an esp on tackler just warned them to cloak or come after you. Least now u have an option of laying down additional rapid fire/semi charged shots.

 

Much crying about missle nerfing on inties but this is surely an improvement, esp given that most inties have the crit bonuses needed to equal or surpass damage given out by easier to hit fighters/frigs. Two less missles and an extra second to fire them just threw a spanner in the missle spam works. Its a good thing.

 

Other weapon changes i dont really see the diff or its baby bears porridge over all a good patch. 012j.png

The only problem I see about missile changes is that now a lot of ECM players are fitting the energy neutraliser missile, but they don’t know how to use it, so most of the time they do more harm to their own team than to the enemy.

hi again…so the plasma guns are nice…and thats ginda it… i saw uv added pilots taunts and potraits, great i frist thord, then i see greedy GS prizes, did u ever think id pay GS for a potrait or a taunt that i couldent add or create my selv?! u have like 10 pictures were only 2 of them is nice enugh to buy and 15 taunts that are mildly said…lame. why cant i custum it with own text and own pics?! why have u not added stuff like: alternative wing,cocpit,engine shapes to ships? couler change on weapons, T5 craftet guns are still same skin as t1 guns…we play this xxxx cus we wanna fly cool spaceships with scifi guns Thats what i wanna pay for. still it takes 4mins if u que with one single friend. warthunder have instant que pop so does almost all other multiplayer games not here cus if 2 players play togetter u start to whine…wonder whats next…i bet more weapons twidling… oooh but we added facebook…LAME!

Overall I’d have to say this patch was OK. After using both the plasma gun and gauss cannon (post-change and pre-change), I lost a lot of respect for the devs. Revamping the plasma gun and gauss cannon so severely (to the point that they aren’t really the same weapon any more) was a poor decision. The reasoning “n00bs can’t use them” or “they aren’t used nearly as much” are poor excuses, as the reason they weren’t used much is that laser weapons were the meta, and dominated over other weapons. The simple laser nerfs and horizon nerf would’ve been enough for the gauss cannon and plasma gun to become useful again. On top of that, a small buff would’ve been perfect to bring more use to these weapons, as that was all they really needed.

 

Plasma guns are essentially long-range RF blasters, and gauss long-range rails. This is a shame, because it basically removed two guns from the game and copied two that already existed. IMO, they should revert the gauss and plasma cannons back to their old mechanics and give them a slight buff. The only new mechanic I like about these weapons is the new charging mechanic of gauss. This allows for more variety in the shots, and makes crit-builds much better.

Plasma guns are essentially long-range RF blasters, and gauss long-range rails. This is a shame, because it basically removed two guns from the game and copied two that already existed. IMO, they should revert the gauss and plasma cannons back to their old mechanics and give them a slight buff. The only new mechanic I like about these weapons is the new charging mechanic of gauss. This allows for more variety in the shots, and makes crit-builds much better.

 

I have to agree with Dirk on this one.  I was a huge fan of the old gauss cannon mechanics. (Could handle interceptors quite well, even in a dogfight if you were patient and tactical with your charged shots).  It was meant to be an alpha weapon, not with crazy rof.  The new charging aspect of it, however, is very good!  It makes it feel more smooth and realistic as opposed to the clunky old 2 charge system.  Would be cool if the positron had a similar set up. Maybe even the pulse laser could implement some sort of charging mechanic (Idk might be weird, but just an idea).  Like have it charge up and when released it will fire a burst of rapid fire pulse lasers or something. 

 

As far as the plasma gun goes… its okay… Could have been improved differently I think.  It makes the RF blasters seem obsolete imo.

 

Either way, pretty pleased about the patch now that I’ve tested it out.  The Ion and range nerf was much needed in the higher tiers.  They were making larger ships impossible to play without getting insta-nuked by a master race spark.  And the missile nerf was also good.  The higher tiers are finally starting to become playable for slower tankier ships.

i would have been happier if they lowered the damage of rockets instead of lowering the reload speed. Overall, the new change just makes it less fun to fly inties. As it is now, rockets are almost functionally as slow as guided fighter missiles. Two weapons were re-balanced to intrude on two other existing weapons. It’s stupid to take pulse on COs now, limiting their weapon choice from 4 to 3. All that is just bad design IMO.

 

And i don’t understand why some people think a CO shouldn’t be able to solo a guard. It’s not easy, if the guard knows what they’re doing and has all their cooldowns. But if the guard is all by itself and lets an inty fly circles around it, they should die. Just because you picked a class of ship that is tanky doesn’t mean you should be un-soloable. And that inty pilot is doing a lot more work than you are, risking early on-set arthritis while frig pilots activate some modules and spin and shoot, rarely re-positioning. I understand there are some very good frig pilots but i bet they aren’t complaining that a CO can solo them if they’re isolated. 

 

I just wanted to vent because I’m sick of people with fat fingers in these types of games who go for the biggest and tankiest option and expect themselves to be invincible. You picked the big dumb ship, you’re there for firepower and team positioning and area denial, don’t be surprised when smaller and more agile ships counter you 1v1. 

 

Compared to other similar games, SC has a good number of “activate to damage” type skills. No aim or anything required, just a button press. And people are still whining. And the devs seem to be listening. 

There are so many non-adapters here.

 

“Change is not necessary. Survival is not mandatory.” - Deming

Well, I don’t need to adapt really, I’m not having fun anymore. It is either frigball or go home.

 

I will come back when interceptors are fun again.

There are so many non-adapters here.

 

“Change is not necessary. Survival is not mandatory.” - Deming

 

Yeah gotta adapt, I tweaked my tackler to make it singularity worthy and its outperforming my gauss variant now.  Testing out new methods and experimenting yourself will make you a better pilot.  I’m glad they keep changing up the weapons for this reason to keep the game from getting stale untill there is a nice balance between everything.