Star Conflict v.1.0.17 Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
121

Now there are plenty of ways to counter ecms, but for this particular comment…Increase the time to

the amount that the lrf’s module, IR pulsar, does for anti lock-on. Lrfs will gain the covert ops’ time for their module. I trust you’d find this satisfactory? they can also increase the range of the covert ops module to match that of the normal ecm’s module range.

Actually this is anyway a mechanic idea that i never understood. the lrf ir pulsar is a passive mass debuff module, but has more than double the penalty time of a locked single-target debuff module. I would not completely give the COs that power, since they have their damage as excuse; but the white noise could clearly need a bit of help, while the IR pulsar could need a small area effect additionally, but generally shorter times.

 

 

The missile spam nerf was needed, CO interceptors could obliterate or at least severely damage a Jericho guard in a matter of seconds then run away. A single interceptor should not be capable of dishing out this much firepower. This nerf will allow frigate pilots to have a better chance of survival against CO interceptors and additionally,  Empire recons fitted for missile spam. Getting killed by a CO interceptor is 10 times more fustrating than getting killed by a Empire Gunship in my opinion. I respect Gunship pilots, not so for CO ones.

 

oh rly. i fly all of them, because I love damage dealers. gunship might take its time to master, but ultimately, its the CO, which deserves the respect if he pulls things off. if your team is around you, no way for the co to pick you out. the gunship will still tear you to pieces.

 

anyway, it was not such a nerf for COs ultimately, and i find more missile reloading time okay, i just find the reduction of the cartridge a bit overkill. finally its now the fighters that lost a bit of killing power, and atm. guards are strong as ever. there is nothing more frustrating than a guard, which does practically nothing in terms of play, but cannot be killed, and expects his ship should naturally withstand multiple ships, and moans if a single ship which is designated to be a pure damage dealer can actually do its job on him. Of course that living missile will kill u better, that’s its job.

I hope you fly a co yourself before you judge those pilots. it’s not the experienced pilots fault, that there are more of them active who are decent with ceptors. it’s just logical because they are more challenging, need faster reflexes, more adrenaline. More exercise. It also needs this feeling of invulnerability sometimes, but since I do fly ceptors with nearly no tank inbetween, I can tell you, it’s definitely the experience which makes them most dangerous, not the fact that they are naturally a bit harder to hit.

Against a well fitted good positioned tanky guard, with mass prop inhibitor, pulsar or missile shield, aim and facetorps a CO has really really bad cards. thats the only reason, why some used their whole rocket salvo on the guard. Guards generally work pretty decent with green modules, ceptors on the other hand almost need you to purple up quickly.

 

Frig balls are still damn good strategy, its just harder to carry a team in a guard, if your team cant do the objectives, and you learn a lot more about movement if your ship is fast. May sound patronizing, but it helps a lot to fly the smaller classes to get really good in the big ones, and you can actually watch that players who play mostly guard or LRF only at start, take a lot longer to learn certain things, like not flying straight at the enemy ball.

Just saying, it is pretty logical, the small ships have usually - not always - more experience. This is true for most games where it is about mobility, the slow things need the experience to be a small thing; it also increases your effectiveness, if you see how other guards deal with you as a CO.

Not denying that many guards are pretty easy to kill, and COs are still easier to fly than a recon, which gets its glory more through objective strength or helps the team by sensor range and needs a lot more module timing.

122

Do you know the main problem of sentry and heavy drones??
The problem is called CRUISE ENGINE, if this takler wouldnt run like hell; i could take it down most of the times, so the drones would disappear.

Another problem Is th cooldown, If u deploy a drone, the COOLDOWN shouldnt begin until this drone is dead, like pulsar on guards.

 

PS: I cant understund how someone had the idea to make a fighter FASTER than interceptor!   WHere can we see it??? ONLY ON STAR CONFLICT

123

So, for me this is very simple. I have been flying cov ops for now 3 years, and i don’t xxxx care if you nerf it to hell.

What i do have a problem with is that you keep listening to the voices that say: “a single cov ops shouldnt be able to take out a frigate”

 

Have you actually ever looked at the circumstances when this solo frigkill really happens? For me, if i sit in a cov ops, I don’t even dream about soloing a frigate. UNLESS: it is out of position, far away from the team, or already under focus fire, or a really crappy built that you can smell from 6k away.

Just to sum this up, taking away (part of) the dps from the cov ops by limiting its ambushability, is the result of people not knowing how to fly frigates in a reasonably defensive and team oriented manner. It’s a pity but I understand that if we want bigger playernumbers one needs to dumb down the game.

It’s alright, matches got slower, the lines are more clear and the frigball is as solid as never before. Slower games, means less players being overwhelmed by sensory input.

 

The fact that T5 is absolutely messy doesn’t bother anyone, the ecm spam well, no news but what really outrages me is this ignorance to acknowlege the fact that drone poopers are a real problem. Stop argumenting that it doesnt have much damage, thats bullshit. Everything that hits you while you are busy trying to kill an ECM (for example) and dodging is too much damage. and yes the heavy guard drone hits aswell, especially on escape vectors. The argument that they are easily killable is also quite nonsensical since they always get popped when you are already busy surviving and if you really want to remove them fast you have to use your precious missiles, wich are now only 10, while getting shot by people and drones. Also notice that those are 2 drones each shooting from a different vector, chances that you get hit by one of them while trying to dodge/kill the other are high and deadly. Also, ceptors in t5 are slower. If you have speed you can easily get out, but if you have only your turnrate to rely on, the story gets quite different. In any other tier this is not the problem, so if you respond to this with “nahh drones are fine” while playing t3 at 6 o clock in the morning EU time then you clearly have no perspective on the issue.

 

Generally i find that the overall changes on classes and gear should be considered for each tier. This change fixed the t3 ceptor OP ness, but fucked up the higher tier stuff. Aswell as the energy drain, nobody cares about ecms in t3, change them where they are unbalanced but not in every tier.

 

The new guns, i dont even wanna talk about, do what you want, we will adapt. :slight_smile:

124

Thing is, Oregyn, I don’t think your covops should be able to solo a frigate. 1 v 1, the Frigate should win (assuming all other factors being relatively equal).

I would much rather the Gunship be the primary anti-frigate role, not the Covert Ops. I think the game would be much better if frigates were the primary counter to interceptors (in that they can just spam aoe, drones, mines etc. and have enough survivability to laugh at them until they die or flee). Fighters would then be anti-frigate by using high damage weapons, perhaps with slow barrel or other such penalties that make them less effective against interceptors.

 

The result is that a frigate ball can just roll in and annihilate all the interceptors with ease, but fighters can pick them off with Moar Dakka. The fighters, on the other hand, would be countered by interceptors, who have enough dakka to overcome their moderate survivability, enough speed to run them down, and enough agility to avoid slow-firing, zero-aoe potential weaponry.

125

Thing is, Oregyn, I don’t think your covops should be able to solo a frigate. 1 v 1, the Frigate should win (assuming all other factors being relatively equal).

I would much rather the Gunship be the primary anti-frigate role, not the Covert Ops. I think the game would be much better if frigates were the primary counter to interceptors (in that they can just spam aoe, drones, mines etc. and have enough survivability to laugh at them until they die or flee). Fighters would then be anti-frigate by using high damage weapons, perhaps with slow barrel or other such penalties that make them less effective against interceptors.

 

The result is that a frigate ball can just roll in and annihilate all the interceptors with ease, but fighters can pick them off with Moar Dakka. The fighters, on the other hand, would be countered by interceptors, who have enough dakka to overcome their moderate survivability, enough speed to run them down, and enough agility to avoid slow-firing, zero-aoe potential weaponry.

I’m sorry, I fail to see what you’re getting at, there. I mean, I understand that that means some sort of rock-paper-scissors system for who wins, but honestly, unless you take skill out of it entirely, covert ops is pretty close to where it needs to be. Covert ops should be able to ambush single ships that are out of position, and kill them using their high alpha damage.

 

If you’re talking 1v1, and the covert ops manages to sneak up on a frig, it should win. Period. If the frigate fails to notice the ship, engine trail, the drones shooting at it, the pulsar number deal incrementing by one, so on and so forth, on top of not being anywhere near their team, they deserve to get a plasma arc up the rear engines.

 

If you’re talking inty swarm vs. frigball, frigball already wins, unless the skill levels are completely out of whack.

 

Could you explain what you mean, then?

126

Frigball times are comming back.

 

Can I ask for the return to the 75% critic damage in singularities? Bubbles are now the worst gun of all the fighter ones. I suppose now that nobody uses them, they can get buffed a bit.

 

Also, as I said, 4 secs overheating in pulses will be nice. So far 3 secs seems too much.

127

Frigball times are comming back.

 

 

Yep they were already behind the corner, last patch opened the door.

128

Actually this is anyway a mechanic idea that i never understood. the lrf ir pulsar is a passive mass debuff module, but has more than double the penalty time of a locked single-target debuff module. I would not completely give the COs that power, since they have their damage as excuse; but the white noise could clearly need a bit of help, while the IR pulsar could need a small area effect additionally, but generally shorter times.

 

 

 

oh rly. i fly all of them, because I love damage dealers. gunship might take its time to master, but ultimately, its the CO, which deserves the respect if he pulls things off. if your team is around you, no way for the co to pick you out. the gunship will still tear you to pieces.

 

anyway, it was not such a nerf for COs ultimately, and i find more missile reloading time okay, i just find the reduction of the cartridge a bit overkill. finally its now the fighters that lost a bit of killing power, and atm. guards are strong as ever. there is nothing more frustrating than a guard, which does practically nothing in terms of play, but cannot be killed, and expects his ship should naturally withstand multiple ships, and moans if a single ship which is designated to be a pure damage dealer can actually do its job on him. Of course that living missile will kill u better, that’s its job.

I hope you fly a co yourself before you judge those pilots. it’s not the experienced pilots fault, that there are more of them active who are decent with ceptors. it’s just logical because they are more challenging, need faster reflexes, more adrenaline. More exercise. It also needs this feeling of invulnerability sometimes, but since I do fly ceptors with nearly no tank inbetween, I can tell you, it’s definitely the experience which makes them most dangerous, not the fact that they are naturally a bit harder to hit.

Against a well fitted good positioned tanky guard, with mass prop inhibitor, pulsar or missile shield, aim and facetorps a CO has really really bad cards. thats the only reason, why some used their whole rocket salvo on the guard. Guards generally work pretty decent with green modules, ceptors on the other hand almost need you to purple up quickly.

 

Frig balls are still damn good strategy, its just harder to carry a team in a guard, if your team cant do the objectives, and you learn a lot more about movement if your ship is fast. May sound patronizing, but it helps a lot to fly the smaller classes to get really good in the big ones, and you can actually watch that players who play mostly guard or LRF only at start, take a lot longer to learn certain things, like not flying straight at the enemy ball.

Just saying, it is pretty logical, the small ships have usually - not always - more experience. This is true for most games where it is about mobility, the slow things need the experience to be a small thing; it also increases your effectiveness, if you see how other guards deal with you as a CO.

Not denying that many guards are pretty easy to kill, and COs are still easier to fly than a recon, which gets its glory more through objective strength or helps the team by sensor range and needs a lot more module timing.

 

Covert Ops should not be able to solo enemy frigs, Gunships should be able to. In the past before this patch the CO could easily destroy any ship especially if they were distracted by only another enemy. This nerf prevents them from doing that and makes the Gunships more of the frig destroyers. CO can still deal heavy damage but not destroy the enemy. In beacon hunt where the match size is less than 4 per team, CO was way too overpowered especially if the enemy team has ECM along with them. Now they are more balanced. Tier 5 matches due to their small player count per match cause CO and ECM  to be overpowered because almost any ship is practically “out of position”. There is almost no safe spot for one side of the team if there is no Engineering or Guard frigate.

 

PS I do fly them…

 

 

Thing is, Oregyn, I don’t think your covops should be able to solo a frigate. 1 v 1, the Frigate should win (assuming all other factors being relatively equal).

I would much rather the Gunship be the primary anti-frigate role, not the Covert Ops. I think the game would be much better if frigates were the primary counter to interceptors (in that they can just spam aoe, drones, mines etc. and have enough survivability to laugh at them until they die or flee). Fighters would then be anti-frigate by using high damage weapons, perhaps with slow barrel or other such penalties that make them less effective against interceptors.

 

The result is that a frigate ball can just roll in and annihilate all the interceptors with ease, but fighters can pick them off with Moar Dakka. The fighters, on the other hand, would be countered by interceptors, who have enough dakka to overcome their moderate survivability, enough speed to run them down, and enough agility to avoid slow-firing, zero-aoe potential weaponry.

 

^ This is what it should be like, which it is closer to now.

129

I flew covert op for 90 % of the time, I know what I m saying, I was very good at it, main weapon, orion and missiles, they all have their uses. The fact that you underestimate the importance of the missiles in dogfighting means you dont know how to use them. Easy to take things away you cant handle. I m probably a better covert op pilot then you, i can judge the impact better, also because i dont have a team backing me up all the time and I also play other tiers then T3

 

I don’t underestimate the importance of them in dogfights. I have been flying covert ops for about 16 months now, and I fully understand the importance of missiles. My point is that the missiles were pretty OP before the nerf, now they are more balanced.

130

My two cents to drone poopers and CovOps:

 

CovOps are OP, i have talked to several pro gamers and they plain tell me its that way. Of course they wouldnt admit it in fear of da things being nerfed, but its a fact. I myself cant fly em well, so cant say much bout it. Again, i suppose its a ship that reacts most strongly to good aim, so if ur aims and reactions good u are just plain better than anyone around you, and this cannot be replicated in any other ship.

 

Drone poopers on the other hand seem to be not so effective, since they can be dealt with easily by an Recon uncloaking them. Had never had any real probs with em. Speed tacklers are a problem, i am talking about NERW from Sirius here. Dont know how hes is hitting with the slow moving Sing Cannon though, its a mystery. I replicated the build and dont hit xxxx.

131

Covert Ops should not be able to solo enemy frigs… There is almost no safe spot for one side of the team if there is no Engineering or Guard frigate.

 

So covops killing frigates is bad and covops killing a team without frigate is also bad. What do you really want ?

 

 

…before this patch the CO could easily destroy any ship especially if they were distracted by only another enemy.

 

Then the covop wasn’t actually soloing that ship.

 

… makes the Gunships more of the frig destroyers.

 

And by you previous logic guards should not be able to solo gunships, you are fine with that ?

132

My two cents to drone poopers and CovOps:

 

CovOps are OP, i have talked to several pro gamers and they plain tell me its that way. Of course they wouldnt admit it in fear of da things being nerfed, but its a fact. I myself cant fly em well, so cant say much bout it. Again, i suppose its a ship that reacts most strongly to good aim, so if ur aims and reactions good u are just plain better than anyone around you, and this cannot be replicated in any other ship.

 

Drone poopers on the other hand seem to be not so effective, since they can be dealt with easily by an Recon uncloaking them. Had never had any real probs with em. Speed tacklers are a problem, i am talking about NERW from Sirius here. Dont know how hes is hitting with the slow moving Sing Cannon though, its a mystery. I replicated the build and dont hit xxxx.

 

They are only “OP” in certain scenarios, as is any ship in this game. The games in T5 tend to have those scenarios happen more frequently, as the games are much smaller. In large games, covops tend to not shine as much, as there are far more people who can focus the covops, but in small 3v3-5v5 games, there are less people to help kill the covops.

 

Drone-poopers are a disgrace to the name Tackler. Running a cruise-engine tackler with 2 sentry drones and no slows completely ignores the meaning of a tackler. Tacklers are meant to hunt down interceptors and slow/weaken enemy ships. Running a tackler without slows is like running an engie without heals, just plain stupid. Sure, you act as a “distraction”, but you are completely wasting the ship’s potential. Tacklers are an essential tool in taking down interceptors, especially covert ops.

 

NERW from SRS is an extremely skilled tackler pilot. He has had plenty of practice flying cruise engine bubble ships. Hitting people with slow-moving bubbles becomes extremely easy once you understand the mechanics of the weapon (how to aim, where to aim, etc.) and you understand the mechanics of the cruise engine.

133

 

CovOps are OP, i have talked to several pro gamers and they plain tell me its that way. Of course they wouldnt admit it in fear of da things being nerfed, but its a fact. I myself cant fly em well, so cant say much bout it. Again, i suppose its a ship that reacts most strongly to good aim, so if ur aims and reactions good u are just plain better than anyone around you, and this cannot be replicated in any other ship.

I dont know what pros you are referring to. I am not afraid of any nerf, because i have learned every ship properly. If they are pros then they should be able to come up with a counter, rather than talking bs.

Another thing: If you have good aim, you have good aim on all weapons. Nothing to do with it being a ceptor. And actually there is alot of spray fire involved on a covops. You should try the class before repeating propaganda.

134

yeah nice patch… Plasma feels like a rf blaster :)) but ist much fun

135

I dont know what pros you are referring to. I am not afraid of any nerf, because i have learned every ship properly. If they are pros then they should be able to come up with a counter, rather than talking bs.

Another thing: If you have good aim, you have good aim on all weapons. Nothing to do with it being a ceptor. And actually there is alot of spray fire involved on a covops. You should try the class before repeating propaganda.

 

Man, why dont we make a bet? We take any two good gamers. Doesnt matter which really. We give One a Setup of like CovOps, Gunship, LRF and ECM. Ok? The we give the other a Setup of Engineer, Guard, Tackler and Command.

 

And u know, i do kinda bet me money on da first one. U wanna bet on the other?

136

Man, why dont we make a bet? We take any two good gamers. Doesnt matter which really. We give One a Setup of like CovOps, Gunship, LRF and ECM. Ok? The we give the other a Setup of Engineer, Guard, Tackler and Command.

 

And u know, i do kinda bet me money on da first one. U wanna bet on the other?

 

I’d bet on the other. All you need is a good tackler setup to counter the covops and ECM, and a good guard to counter the lrf and gunship.

This is of course assuming each pilot is of equal skill level.

137

I’d bet on the other. All you need is a good tackler setup to counter the covops and ECM, and a good guard to counter the lrf and gunship.

This is of course assuming each pilot is of equal skill level.

Now thats were we differ. In my opinion a good CovOps pilot is able to fly in a pattern that makes it near impossible to be hit, even if the tackler is piloted by an equally skilled pilot. But i dont wanna be right no matter what. Lets just agree to diagree.

138

Now thats were we differ. In my opinion a good CovOps pilot is able to fly in a pattern that makes it near impossible to be hit, even if the tackler is piloted by an equally skilled pilot. But i dont wanna be right no matter what. Lets just agree to diagree.

Agreed, I’ve played around with tacklers, and setups it can be very difficult to hit them. I find the best way to do it is engine inhibitor and engine supressor

139

There are 3 Roles of interceptors, and out of these 3 ECMs got hit the hardest

Pulses

Missiles

Energy Drain

 

  • Pulses were one of the most commonly used on ECM because in general they have only 1 CPU (except prems and T4 Empire) that is used for Protons, so using pulses that requer no Spread reduction and have some nice ammo for pure dmg or crit chance was a very common choice

 

  • Out of 3 interceptors roles on ECMs missiles has the biggest total DPS share, and easily making up 50% of a total DPS which allows you them still be DMG competitive vs Frigs and Fighters on top of support power they got

 

  • Energy Drain is the most problematic module on ECM, not affected by protons, interceptors and most fighters get out of energy within a second before most of the people can even activate a counter module

 

All of these changes hardly affect Racoons or CovOps

Pulses were always positioned as easy to fly with weapon and effective vs mobile targets, but for a longest time they were not only the easiest to hit, but the most effective and dmg vs wide range of targets from interceptors to guards, new over heat is enough to still effectively fight vs light targets, but vs heavies where you need multiple overheats to considerably dmg them, effectiveness got reduced drastically, now if you want to go vs heavies, you actually have to equip something more effect for the job.

140

So covops killing frigates is bad and covops killing a team without frigate is also bad. What do you really want ?

 

 

 

Then the covop wasn’t actually soloing that ship.

 

 

And by you previous logic guards should not be able to solo gunships, you are fine with that ?

 

 

CO should be easily able to dispatch a fighter. In the past this was possible and still is even with the nerf to missile reload time. They should not however, be capable of soloing and destroying the “tank” class of the game IE: The Guard. The main reason this used to be gamebreaking is because, frigates have almost no way to withstand a CO assault other than tank the damage which even Guards struggle to do so (Exception being the LRF reversing to safety) . Fighters on the other hand can either kill the target (Gunship) Hide (Tackler) Attempt to tank or avoid the shots (Command). Not to mention fighters can avoid the plasma arc and dodge at least 25% of incoming Orion charged shots. Frigates on the other hand have to eat everything. If the Guard struggles to withstand the damage, how can the LRF or even the Engineering frigates even have a hope of survival.

 

A mistake on my part, what i meant was being caught off guard by a single attacking CO should not lead to destruction of a frigate especially if its a Guard Frigate. If the frig is ganged the frigate should die which should only happen if they are caught out of position.

 

Yes Guards should be able to be destroyed by skilled Gunship pilots if they are caught off guard. This could be done in the past and still can. (Gunships are a lot easier to hit than a spiralling CO)

 

 

The honest reason in my opinion why this nerf was brought about is because high tier matches are too small. In the end, there are not enough people to form a team to create a small frigball which creates an area of denial. Taking into account how hard interceptors are to hit and how much damage they can dish out, Frigates have a very low chance of survival especially if the attack is coordinated with an ECM because 90% of the time, they are “out of position” This i believe is also why ECM is overpowered in higher tiers. There is simply, no “safe place” for frigates to stay in such that they can prevent themselves from being ganged and killed. In lower tiers like 3, there is usually always a small frigball of at least 3 frigates. This ball prevents enemy CO from getting close to kill the ship. Higher tiers lacks this, thus interceptors become op, especially when the whole enemy team is full of ECM ships.

 

CO i believe is also one of the few ships that can actually dish out all 3 types of damage without sacrificing any of its tank. Eg: Plasma cannons, Piercing Missiles, Plasma Arc. Gunships have to sacrifice their shield (Particle purge). LRF such as the JLRF can dish out all 3 types as well, but the difference is it cannot chase you down unlike a CO ship. All you need is cover and you can survive, unless he ambushes you then u deserve to die. This causes Guards to lose their effective phase shield ability because they cannot effectively tank multiple damage types at once, not to mention the shield resistant penalties for guards.