definitely needed the nerf.
Now people need 8 seconds instead of 6 to kill any kind of ship, it’s obvious they had to complain :fed015:
Now people need 8 seconds instead of 6 to kill any kind of ship, it’s obvious they had to complain :fed015:
ofc!
Coz they play game and they feel bad coz of it!
and they get kills!
you dont!
you dont play
Actually this nerf is not that bad if you forego the CovOps role - silent assassin - select single target, sneak up to it and kill it as fast as possible. If you will treat it only as dogfighting ship, then the nerf doesn’t hit it too hard. Heck, my recon can go mano a mano with Golden Eagle/Falcon-M now. And how exactly it impacts Covops dmg output? With Pirate Orion doing just a smidge over 70% dmg I had to install shared cooler on my covops. I can shoot this stupid Inquisitor and shoot it and shoot it some more. Again recon proved much more useful in this situation. I assume that was the intend of this? To move covops to the dogfighting class and give more utility to recons, right?
Heh, free frag every 40 seconds
hm, why do they delete my comment and not the one that responds to it or even the one I was responding to…? meh.
ofc!
Coz they play game and they feel bad coz of it!
and they get kills!
you dont!
you dont play
Stop smashing the keyboard and type something coherent xD
CovOps should counter gunships, not replace them.
Edit: to clarify, I support this nerf and believe further balance is needed to balance CovOps and other interceptors.
The Orion nerf, as much as I don’t like it, was needed. A waki-R with an orange orion would get 189% damage boost, or 180% with purple. This was extremely OP. Now that is scaled back, making it much more balanced.
[WolfKhan](< base_url >/index.php?/user/240942-wolfkhan/)
I remember about the Octopus
[BladeOfShadow](< base_url >/index.php?/user/240201-bladeofshadow/) [DirkDecent](< base_url >/index.php?/user/240327-dirkdecent/)
Search “Power Balance”. Its not nerf.
Well after going ingame for a bit and checking out what is going on in invasion I found a few things of note:
First would be that Tracking Station was hit the hardest of the destroyed sectors.
Second would be that the dreadnoughts have actually arrived at the stations (but they’re out of reach :alien3: ).
Third would be that the European server needs major maintenance.
Five pages worth of discussion over a tiny nerf? Goodness gracious, people!
[WolfKhan](< base_url >/index.php?/user/240942-wolfkhan/)
I remember about the Octopus
[BladeOfShadow](< base_url >/index.php?/user/240201-bladeofshadow/) [DirkDecent](< base_url >/index.php?/user/240327-dirkdecent/)
Search “Power Balance”. Its not nerf.
Even though it was needed, it was still a nerf. A nerf is a change that makes something weaker than it was before. Like reducing damage output during Orion 
I tried the Falcon-M yesterday, that ship is still a killing machine, so I think the nerf doesn’t make is much weaker.
Tonight I’ll try my Eagle-B as well.
But my problem is still the same, we have much bigger issues than the CovOps:
-
Horrible Teamplay punishment
-
ECM spam in T5
-
Drone pooping
-
R13 implant
-
CoilMortal spam in T3 (this is not that serious than the previous 4)
I play T5, I fly interceptors and I approve of this nerf (frankly I think it is not enough)
The man speaks the truth… Usual complains after a nerf… Give ppl some time.
But what about ECm nerf? Any new? I’m hoping for a 20-30% nerf on the Ion diffuser…
I tried the Falcon-M yesterday, that ship is still a killing machine, so I think the nerf doesn’t make is much weaker.
Tonight I’ll try my Eagle-B as well.
But my problem is still the same, we have much bigger issues than the CovOps:
Horrible Teamplay punishment
ECM spam in T5
Drone pooping
R13 implant
CoilMortal spam in T3 (this is not that serious than the previous 4)
If R13 implant was changed or seriously nerfed the nerf to Cov Ops’ orion wouldn’t have happened though.
every day I am reminded that it was a good thing when I phased out of interceptors as a damage dealing role versus bigger ships. Of course I also haven’t played for weeks but I am enjoying the tears.
However, I think the bigger argument here is not how interceptors compare to different weight classes but how they compare to each other. As time goes on I look between recon covert ops and ecp and covert ops is the only one that gets less desirable over time despite initially being the funnest to play ship in the game, but I do understand what the developers are doing as mobility negates fragility which originally justified damage output and so a reasonable balancing reflex would be to reduce burst damage to put more emphasis on skilled mobility play than on the modules themselves. However as a class based game this will simply devalue it from other choices due to a lack of gimmicks useful in the current combat environment.
This amount of BS from 20% reduction to one module?
Frankly 20% does not kill the module. Really with the current numbers the boost is very significant.
For the other side of the argument, even if orion is active the CO attacking you still has to hit.
I can’t support Orion + web. I hate all of the auto hit in this game. I get that players with fewer hours in battle need something though…
6 pages about nerf that was well deserved, but nobody noticed about tackler double drone problem untouched. At least t4 is playable now without that awefull lagspike cannon.
You want me make a list or something? You do know that RU forum exists, where majority of “best” pilots of this game resides, right? Just because we have couple guys in English community that could come close to them skill wise, does not mean that these are the only good pilots in the game.
If anything, super-test team, for the most part, is composed of most knowledgeable guys about this game, mechanics and game experiences wise, that able to see the bigger picture and not close minded into some tunnel-vision about 1-2 favourite imba build. Pretty much in unison agrees that interceptors are of the balance, where CovOps (Even recons/ecms can do more dmg than average NONpremium gunships) replaced gunships because they do more dmg even without Orion, way more survivable because of all 8-2/13-1 (due to Orion easy kills)/14-1/EmergencyBarriers/amount of self healing/ much more mobile and independent form the team support/team healers.
majority of best pilots? big picture? lol. phrases! maybe you mean retired fighter pilots?
the majority of quality ceptor players was and is still western, in any timezone, since 0.6 times.
Most top Ru players did just not care for ceptors even in the old days. Except a very few, i would even dare to say, no russian ace has ever impressed me in any dogfight with ceptors, but a lot of european and murrican players (also their population declined, but you should know that in your corp) do frequently. They did impress me however with their deadly gunships and hardcore engineer-group-play and made me start learning that too. And I miss it, miss to fight against those ppl, but they are hardly to be seen, and if they make it into a pub, they sit around in snipers losing games for you, or other arrogant playstyles, which just makes you vomit on the screen.
But about ceptors, they really have no clue. Because they would have to invest another year of gameplay, just to learn them.
gunships were not replaced dude. you just dont see any teamplay and gunships need a team, and the most still remaining active old players in the english community are all somewhat ceptor-based, so of course there is somewhat more outcry here.
the orion nerf was maybe justified. now its time to re-evaluate, not lobby-talk about “those op ceptors”.
The CO was always, what it is. Most ceptors are easy cake targets, you are talking about a few pilots who can use them as skilled, as gunships were used by those “experts” which got extinct into the forums.
gunships are still gunships, and your excel numbers mean nothing, if you compare a coordinated gunship group to a swarm of covert ops, and harder games are still decided only by them, especially if they have the few good guards and good engineers as backup, they firmly hold their ground. even in the scatter times, those games existed.
- The upside of fighters healing a lot faster by external sources than ceptors makes more than up with the stronger relation of self healing of ceptors.
- emergency barriers can be installed on virtually any ship, while only a couple COs can even take it, and those ships have a lot of other downsides. you are mixing all eggs in one basket!
- mobility is their upside, but can be effectively canceled by (also not very ru-fanbased) tacklers, ecms, and guards. however, a mjolnir retreating into his frig ball not being able to get squashed even by focus fire, who needs mobility if you got that?
- and the implants, well… they are a separate talk. EVERYONE has those implants, thats not a ceptor specific problem.
if they would really see the big picture, they would have said something about R13 already.
T5 is never going to be fully balanced with that implant mechanic.
- it creates a winners game, by applying to ships who kill or assist, shifting one teams power over the other, and decide games earlier than they should.
- it makes any abusable mechanic that turns up to be a pain in T5; orion was one of them, but there are other mechanics, too.
- it is bad for the gameplay and impossible to balance because it affects all modules, but not all tiers. atm we are balancing modules around the implant, instead we should finally adjust the implants.
- it punishes the team with more inexperience even more, while it boosts arrogance in arranged teams, both are things which are in the end not good, because both lead to “letting the game go” either by frustration or boredom. experienced players need to have risk/reward/hard games, while inexperienced ones need to stay enjoying the game even if they lose more frequently.
instead of targeting the cosmetic problems, the root cause should be taken into focus. One is the T5 implants, and maybe that was the only thing wrong with orion in the first place, as someone noted. You can now nerf ceptors to the ground, only to realize, the other ships become imba with another module, because once you hit the mark in a T5 game, where a couple of ships can spam their modules like madmen, it does not really matter, which mechanic they abuse.
even with all those “mighty op COs”, guards, ecms, LRF and tacklers are still way more played in T5, and there is a lack of engineers, too many tier rushers, capture the beacons with solo-ship pilots, etc.
scatter gun only distracted a bit from the problems which were present, before it got introduced. with orion nerfed and scatter gone, it is really not the time to talk about further CO nerfs.
I really hope you - and others - re-evaluate their stance, and think, which of the problems are still existant, and how the gameplay actually IS, not what it should be “maybe” in our heads. it took me quite some time to admit, orion nerf was needed, maybe because i am also flying less ceptor these days, but any further nerfs, except on specific ecm problems, in the ceptor area, no please, don’t destroy the game.
Just because some of them prefer flying fighters, does not mean others do not prefer flying interceptors, but most importantly is an ability to fly any class-role in synergy with the build of choice, and most of those guys can take up on any role and fly it better than majority of pilots in the game that, so called “specialized” in those classes.
Saying that Ru pilots never impressed you personally in interceptors, does not mean they don’t exist,just to name a few :Timenius, Takamina, Maximum997, Zerk1, ECMnoob, CerberusS, Atlantic, radyogh, they all russians. On top of that, you do not have to be best of the best on some role or class, you just have know the game really well and able to see form alot of different perspective, like ComradTroY for example. So far have yet to see that deep understanding of the game anywhere in English community, and I have been around for years.
Currently only Spark has considerate amount of dmg (and some DPS Mjolnir builds) to compete with DMG out of interceptors and especially CovOps, even counting in Overdrive (Aiming overcharge temporarily gives you an edge, but it has huge cool-downs, that even e13 can not compensate for), and that is about “working” builds on live servers, not some hurr-durr supernova+impulse discharger on a Piranha, look at the numbers they very-very close, and then there are Unguided Missiles, i strongly suggest you calculate the DPS of those, with some implant shuffling it stacks up on top of already high main guns dps creating “wtf just happened” effect on Frigates and Figters.
The difference in incoming healing is non existent, and if anything interceptors can fight with 50% hp much more freely than fighters through ability to dodge and disengage. Emergency barrier is installed on every single “good” interceptor in T4+ (even in T3), Just because Kite and EagleB cant, does not mean every other Interceptor cant, check your builds.
Mobility of interceptors does nto get “effectively” canceled, bs, in T3 is not bad, in T5 good luck. The “counter” to something is when you can enforce it upon them, they way anti-mobility works now is that you must wait and wait and wait for opportunity to do so, unless you are using another interceptor (ECM), the only tackler that comes close to that is GravyBeam tackler with 2 slows, there are plenty of counters to anti-mobility that allows interceptors to run wild unless it is something like small map Beacon hunt where battle is forced in a choke point.
The Mjolnir able to retreat and survive under proper focus, does not have much dmg does it, i know how it works. And yet interceptors survive focus left and right.
No one is saying implants are fine. And no it is not the only problem with interceptors.
Interceptors supposed to be objective mobility ship, support and hit-n-run ships, but due to all the benefits, buffs to anti-mobility implants, buffs to interceptor weapons and some craft ammo, they become a non stop brawlers while having a dmg output higher than gunships.
In those dumb random PvP games (where “guards, ecms, LRF and tacklers are still way more played”) You are not gonna take a Spark/Mjolnir/Lightbringer/Piranha and go 1v8 demolishing enemy team, no, you will take FalconM/GrayFalcon/WakiR and spawn camp the hell out of them alone, I believe I showed plenty screenshots of those (and, again, I hate flying interceptors, but I have to if I want to reliably win).
Gunships use to be OP and they got nerfed, but by awesome tradition on Devs, they don’t just nerf and see how it works out they nerf it and overbuff something on opposite side, same happened here.
No one (well maybe outside of Rakza or letir (who is just a Rakza.ru)) want’s to erase interceptors from the game, but it has to be fixed. Like in any “team” game everything should have its downsides, current interceptors have next to none game-play wise, and their only downsides are the game modes you pick them in, not the counter-plays from enemy teams.
Saying that Ru pilots never impressed you personally in interceptors, does not mean they don’t exist,just to name a few :
I said few exceptions.
Except a very few, i would even dare to say, …
Not all of these, but some of these, count towards them. Especially since some of those players are still better in a gunship, than in ceptors.
And activitywise, how many of those play a lot, I remember also one then left because could not cope with EM Torps… so yeah.
Anyway, it should not be about the community differences, but there is one for sure. The english speaking list is way longer, you gotta admit! So at least, the tendency goes way less to Ceptors however, that was my point. (and not to insult people)
You ignore the fact, that the problem is, those players are also simply not online much; and their fighter squads were always stronger in their games. The teaching effect is missing. In both directions, and this is already for quite some time, not just a couple of weeks.
What you want to tell me, is, simply put, Ceptors are hard to aim at. That is true, but you manage even in T5, if you practice daily. If you do not practice daily, you can be skilled no matter what, playing on and off every few weeks do not give you actual insight and aim into the mechanics of the weapons, especially since they changed a lot over time. I agree, there could be better finetuned flight mechanics, but seriously… the OP ceptor argument is simply said not true.
Too strong unguided damage? Are you serious? You ever used those missiles? Know the missing rate, especially in flight?
(Certain) ECMs, drones, way more problem than COs.
But at least, you admit the problem of the T5 implants. I tell you that is way more a balance problem atm. But I’d also like to see what would be more ideal, in terms of gameplay, in form of a concrete plan, not just simply stating things like “they should be like this…”.
Not to talk about another obvious problem, that engis, except the Octopus, have a hard time in T5; In T3, the styxes keep ceptors way more in balance, because it is simply harder to kill a good defense, while a good built Octopus on perma adaptive turns into a bloody mess, and their scarce availability makes T5 games pretty chaotic; same to say about fighter airframe sizes, which make fed fighters suffer a lot too, so if we talk gunship, we talk empire. But that doesn’t strictly mean, one class is overpowered, it means that some individual ships are underpowered, at least to me.