I would say absolutely not. Coz in this way usual palyers be back in squads to easily farm in the same tier matches…I think that this MM is anyway better than the old one…but surely it still needs some fixing
the problem is not with the ship / weapon etc differences between ties … its the implants which are most notiicable. If i fit t4 ships - i want to play against t4 ships and so on and so on - this MM doesnt allow me even solo to face the same tier of ships that I am flying … aka broken !!
Are piercing missiles for T2 fighters discontinued?
Are piercing missiles for T2 fighters discontinued?
I didn’t check T2 but why would they remove the rockets?
How to protest against matchmaking…
1st no more money in this game
2nd leave party with no balanced team
welcome to SC T5
I didn’t check T2 but why would they remove the rockets?
I’d like an answer to that too. Especially since I have to go through all the trouble of creating an Imgur account just to post this screenshot. This forum isn’t very bright, is it?
As you can see, no piercing missiles.
If the Dev Team is really so concerned with squads breaking the game, why don’t they do the following?
A) LOCK THE xxxx TIERS!
B) Each tier has two queues. Squads of 3-4 get put in Queue B, along with any player with a stupidly high matchmaking score. Everyone else goes in Queue A.
End. Of. Problem.
Well, I’m very upset by this new patch! It seems the only goal is to push us to spend money or face a long long long farming phase.
Upgrade are too expensives and upgrade pack, as they are specifi, do not help at all.
Besides, the menu to equip ships is not ergonomic, as you don’t know in advance how much it will cost you to upgrade, and what will be the benefits of upgrading. You have to take risk, and lose credits, coupons or whatever : losse time.
All in all, old players with already many MkIII weapons and equipment can easily keep on ruling the space while new players will spend too much time trying to improve their shiprs, while being easy targets…
Really too bad a patch
If the Dev Team is really so concerned with squads breaking the game, why don’t they do the following?
A) LOCK THE xxxx TIERS!
B) Each tier has two queues. Squads of 3-4 get put in Queue B, along with any player with a stupidly high matchmaking score. Everyone else goes in Queue A.
End. Of. Problem.
+1 for this; or you could even have the choice, with low rank, to also enter queue A
Easyer way: a 4 men squad will start a game ONLY if there is another 4 men squad to place in enemy team.
That’s all.
Somene could say :" eh!!! but it takes so long to start a match!" … offcours it can! But well just play in 3 man squad if u want ur queue time reduced. If u wanna play with a full squad be ready to wait 15 minutes…at the moment at least.
Honeslty the mm system is now worst than it was ever been. I mean i can’t play my r12 at all… couse 8 times out of 10 i’m versus full t5 squads even if i queque alone.
Now… honestly… it’s not like i can’t play almost equal with my Leonina or my Jarl… but point is… why should i use Leonina if i can use jarl and nothing changes in MM ?
[And here is the lie:if queue with Leonina (only one ship … i did it just for test) i see rank 12 - 15 … if i queque with jarl i see rank 13 - 15 … but borderline u ll fight exactly the same people.]
We do not plan on downgrading any aspects of the game.
We do plan to continue improving our new system.
1.“improving”
2.all I see here are people complaining
3.i didnt get a notification that you replied, i had to check manually
Guys I do have to say one thing.
Thank you Antibus for being so patient with the community. I can only begin to imagine how you are feeling about this and about the players responses. I understand that you may be not be in full control of the patches or just the messenger boy, but we appreciate all the feedback you have given us.
I must say that squad change is the only real positive in the patch for me. The basic rule of balanced matchmaking is that players should have 0.5 (50/50, shown in-game as win loss ratio of 1) win ratio if matchmaking works. Before squadding up with good players gave you guaranteed win ratio of something between 0.7 and 0.9 easily. In some cases, it went even higher, approaching 1. It was broken.
Many games do the same thing this change incorporated in SC: if they allow squads to be matchmade with randoms, they match them significantly higher than they otherwise would if they joined solo. A good example of this is LoL, which allows pairs to queue into solo queue, but assigns a significantly inflated MMR if you queue as a pair as opposed to queuing solo. And it works exceptionally well. In fact, at lower tiers of LoL where I mess around, it could be said it overcompensates, because I’ve observed that most duos are significantly worse than other three players ending up being the weak link regardless of their improved teamwork.
But overall the system function well to balance it out and allow pairs to queue with solo players in a balanced fashion.
Frankly, reading many posts here, I’m getting a feeling that most people are too used to broken squad MMR from before which granted them extremely skewed win/loss ratio, and now that their win ratio in squad is far closer to that magical 0.5, it causes whining. Not because it’s a bad thing, but because people are used to free lunch that was old, broken squad MMR and they want it and their free wins back. It’s basic human attitude towards something they had for a long time, something they have grown to feel they’re entitled to even though it breaks the game for those queuing solo.
Reality is, the current MMR system is well tested and proven far superior to blind MMR system we had before, a fact proven by myriad of competitive games over more than a decade. It does need some tweaking to get actual needed increase in rating based on squad skill, but it’s far, FAR better than giving squads a free win card by blindly matching them with same tier randoms.
Right now, about the only thing devs may wish to consider is to perhaps offset the impact on people who want their free lunch back by increasing rewards for squadded players to match the rank they’re matchmade to. I.e. give them increased rewards for the inflated MMR.
Still loving the “Shoot backwards with a Coil Mortar and have your guns locked for 10 seconds” bug.
Squads should only ever bump you up one extra tier. T3s are no match for T5s just like 2s aren’t for 4s and etc. Sure squaddies can stomp ±2 when the entire team is composed of people who rushed through the content, but when you’re fighting people who know how to work together and build ships properly there’s no way in hell you’re going to beat someone two tiers above you.
I’m worried about lower-skilled squads as well. What are newer players going to do when they want to play together? I sure as hell know that they’ll quickly stop squadding if they’re always put against T3/4s in their T1/2s. There should be a way to get groups of players with lower average stats(points per match, w/l ratio, etc. Things harder to game) to stay in the same tier when squadding if at least to START the willingness to team up with friends even if you run that willingness through the mud later.
May i have a suggestion. I know the hardcore players know exactly what modules they have, but most of us are not hardcore enough for that. I know my weapon and the actives, but the others are blurry. When i loot a purple upgrade kit, i have no idea if i have the module equipped (and below purple, though in T3 its not a problem for me yet). There should be a notice for that i think.
The new economics are worse then before. Assuming that I do all the contracts for my faction once, I can farm about 10-12k of tickets a day. To upgrade one item to blue, i’m looking 100k to buy and upgrade to green, plus 75k rep to get a blue. So my purchasing power is far smaller then before. For the cost of two blues, I could have unlocked all the tier 3 items for a faction and bought three of them. That doesn’t seem like a good trade at all.
Antibus,
A proposal: Fly with EvilTactitian, Kipps and me this evening 5 Matches in R11. Were all good teamplayers and then we might show you a bit better where the Matchmaker fails.
Guys I do have to say one thing.
Thank you Antibus for being so patient with the community. I can only begin to imagine how you are feeling about this and about the players responses. I understand that you may be not be in full control of the patches or just the messenger boy, but we appreciate all the feedback you have given us.
These.
Remember that every time you comment something and antibus tells you he’ll need to get back to you on it or that it’s under advisement, it’s because he’s taking the time to tell you that he read your post, rather than doing what I would do and let you sulk while I try to talk russian and convince developers and coders to do things my way. He’s actually being nice to you people, stretching the rules about not trash talking other players in forums and xxxx everywhere so that you can still talk about the game, which also means he actually DOES care about your opinions and has actually read them more than once now. So no one needs to start facepalming. Unless you just made an account, you should have expected the confirmation that your statements have been logged.
Zap’s proposal is actually a good idea. You may or may not play, antibus , but since these guys are well-respected in this gaming community and are calling a problem, it may not be bad to witness just once.
It’s worth noting that antibus is not a developer but a community manager.
You’d need to ask a dev to fly with you.
And as has been pointed out above, “we see your feedback and are working on it” is the support lingvo for “I’ll file your feedback into nearest garbage bin”. You need an overwhelming amount of feedback of very similar nature to get it through the support to upper echelons of management who can actually do something about the issue.
The man/woman is just doing his/her job here. Not really seeing any reason to either hate on or suck up to.
Also respecting Antibus here who tries to keep everything right. My nerves however do go towards others.
I think i’ll keep digging for sweet rolls for JP till next patch. There’s no point to grind my teeth in the game’s current phase.
I’m worried about lower-skilled squads as well. What are newer players going to do when they want to play together? I sure as hell know that they’ll quickly stop squadding if they’re always put against T3/4s in their T1/2s. There should be a way to get groups of players with lower average stats(points per match, w/l ratio, etc. Things harder to game) to stay in the same tier when squadding if at least to START the willingness to team up with friends even if you run that willingness through the mud later.
Lower tier squads have already solved this problem- they’re gone. I just spent a couple hours fighting solo in Low T4-T3, and I saw a lot of other solo players, a few possible T3 duos, and one possible trio of T3, but not a single four man squad. If the MM works for lower tiers the same way as it does for upper, I should have seen some four man T2 squads, but I didn’t see any at all.
I must say that squad change is the only real positive in the patch for me. The basic rule of balanced matchmaking is that players should have 0.5 (50/50) win ratio if matchmaking works. Before squadding up with good players gave you guaranteed win ratio of something between 0.7 and 0.9 easily. In some cases, it went even higher, approaching 1. It was broken.
Many games do the same thing this change incorporated in SC: if they allow squads to be matchmade with randoms, they match them significantly higher than they otherwise would if they joined solo. A good example of this is LoL, which allows pairs to queue into solo queue, but assigns a significantly inflated MMR if you queue as a pair as opposed to queuing solo. And it works exceptionally well. In fact, at lower tiers of LoL where I mess around, it could be said it overcompensates, because I’ve observed that most duos are significantly worse than other three players ending up being the weak link regardless of their improved teamwork.
But overall the system function well to balance it out and allow pairs to queue with solo players in a balanced fashion.
I’m not terribly familiar with LoL, but as I understand it their MM only inflated a team’s rating. Our MM doesn’t inflate ratings- it provides the non-squadded players with a multitude of damage bonuses, extra abilities, extra health, and other statistical advantages from the higher rank of their ships. Our system may also bring around a 50/50 win/loss record for squads, but it’s not doing it by finding better players. It just awards statistical bonuses to the non-squadded.
It undermines an even more basic tenet of game design: Everyone must play by the same rules. Was my squad’s loss due to the pick-up team managing to pull together superior teamwork, or was it just flat-out better ships? _ Even worse _, was my victory over the other team’s squad due to my guys clicking and laying down the crossfire, or a result of the implant and module variety that the squadded people can’t hope to ever match? The victories are hollow and the losses unfair. Against those of equal rank, victory feels earned and defeat deserved. I may just stop playing in a PvP squad until this very serious problem is addressed, because playing against other people of the same rank feels more rewarding- even when I lose.
We may have gotten back four man PvP squads, but all the fun and enjoyment I used to get from being in one is gone. See ya’ll in the solo queue!
