Star Conflict OBT v.0.9.7 Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
601

Have you tried creating a Sugeestion, where this idea would be more… structured?

Here’s a thread in Suggestions, locked by Error.  [http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/20484-ive-had-enough-of-this-no-sense-fix-the-pvp-rating-system/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/20484-ive-had-enough-of-this-no-sense-fix-the-pvp-rating-system/)

 

This is the thread not in Suggestions that Error pointed to using.  [http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/20345-destroyed-ships-rating-skill-rating/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/20345-destroyed-ships-rating-skill-rating/)

 

I had created a suggestion thread about it three months ago and it’s since been locked which Zeik said to use the second thread.  It’s been a known long standing issue, and although it’s probably low priority, it does affect morale as people use it to represent skill.  Some people care about it, some people ignore it.  It’s solely dependent on kill shots and deaths, and ignores everything else.

 

If I just wanted a high DSR I would just play Empire LRF in T2 forever.  To do that it’s just “F - click - click - click.”

602

Here’s a thread in Suggestions, locked by Error. [http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/20484-ive-had-enough-of-this-no-sense-fix-the-pvp-rating-system/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/20484-ive-had-enough-of-this-no-sense-fix-the-pvp-rating-system/)

This is the thread not in Suggestions that Error pointed to using. [http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/20345-destroyed-ships-rating-skill-rating/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/20345-destroyed-ships-rating-skill-rating/)

I had created a suggestion thread about it three months ago and it’s since been locked which Zeik said to use the second thread. It’s been a known long standing issue, and although it’s probably low priority, it does affect morale as people use it to represent skill. Some people care about it, some people ignore it. It’s solely dependent on kill shots and deaths, and ignores everything else.

If I just wanted a high DSR I would just play Empire LRF in T2 forever. To do that it’s just “F - click - click - click.”

Unless I’ve dropped to T2, then it’s F - click - die to Inty - die to Inty - die to Inty. :wink:

603

If I just wanted a high DSR I would just play Empire LRF in T2 forever.  To do that it’s just “F - click - click - click.”

That is irrelevant for higher tiers though, because most people who play like that will be losing several tens of points of their DSR every game in T4/T5 and very quickly degrade to their appropriate level.

 

That’s the beauty of ELO based systems. You can cheat it temporarily, but when you go to play against decent opponents, it will very quickly push you to your actual level of skill.

604

Unless I’ve dropped to T2, then it’s F - click - die to Inty - die to Inty - die to Inty. :wink:

 

That is irrelevant for higher tiers though, because most people who play like that will be losing several tens of points of their DSR every game in T4/T5 and very quickly degrade to their appropriate level.

 

That’s the beauty of ELO based systems. You can cheat it temporarily, but when you go to play against decent opponents, it will very quickly push you to your actual level of skill.

If I just wanted a high DSR I would just play Empire LRF in T2 forever.  To do that it’s just “F - click - click - click.”

Emphasis added.

605

I don’t know if you get DSR completely relatively to your own, I admit I have not really read up, if the formula was released and how it exactly works.

 

But since you at least get more DSR íf your victim has more DSR, that means, if you move a certain group of players to the next room, they would actually again increase their DSRs more, if all their skill levels are equal, and the group is smaller, and they already have higher ratings, since you also lose less DSR, if your killer has more than you. As far as I remember, this phenomenon is called feedback.

 

I noticed, my DSR automatically moves up pretty fast, if I roll some T4s, even if my T4s are still badly fitted.

However I like big battles, so I am actually waiting for bigger queues there.

 

I bet, once T4 and T5 get more players (in that heavenly scenario, where we have 200 pilots in queue in any given tier at any time and play non-stop-lagfree), the average DSR of people in T4/T5 will actually go down; the definition of “average” will change, and cheating it becomes harder over time.

 

If you feel you are getting better, and the average number rises, it’s relative change can give you a personal feedback about your own progress being right, but it is not an absolute number you can compare to everyone in the game; and you can fool yourself pretty easily.

 

Or as I heard once told in medical school: people too obsessed about calories are often developing an eating disorder.

That does not mean, that watching for calories is completely dumb. But the goal are not perfect numbers, the goal is a healthy diet.

 

Of course, at the same time, playing against better people makes you become a better player; so I am actually also pretty eager to unlock myself some T5s and see what you guys are doing up there.

606

I got back to the game for a few games with corp mates at T5, and it’s pretty much the same that it was when I played it a week ago - guards galore. ESB is still flying guard+engineer+gunship IWIN comp, and randoms know that they are pretty much unkillable in guards. We lost one 3v3 because gunship+ECM+engineer could not retake a beacon against two guys in guards chain pushing beacon one by one. Five full overheats on singularity from a gunship with overdrive and aiming overcharge were not enough to kill a solo pushing guard without any support that didn’t suck even with fire support from my engineer. Two of them rushing in chain effectively stopped us from recapturing beacon for long enough to win. And quite a few times they got me down in a gunship before dying, because of soundless invisible EM torps recharging fast enough…

 

Until guards are either cut in about half in terms of survivability, or singularity cannon is buffed to do about twice the damage it currently does, guards will rule T5 with iron fist. Not much else to see there. Just hope that most people get bored of guard IWIN bandwagon eventually and stop playing them.

607

I got back to the game for a few games with corp mates at T5, and it’s pretty much the same that it was when I played it a week ago - guards galore. ESB is still flying guard+engineer+gunship IWIN comp, and randoms know that they are pretty much unkillable in guards. We lost one 3v3 because gunship+ECM+engineer could not retake a beacon against two guys in guards chain pushing beacon one by one. Five full overheats on singularity from a gunship with overdrive and aiming overcharge were not enough to kill a solo pushing guard without any support that didn’t suck even with fire support from my engineer. Two of them rushing in chain effectively stopped us from recapturing beacon for long enough to win. And quite a few times they got me down in a gunship before dying, because of soundless invisible EM torps recharging fast enough…

 

Until guards are either cut in about half in terms of survivability, or singularity cannon is buffed to do about twice the damage it currently does, guards will rule T5 with iron fist. Not much else to see there. Just hope that most people get bored of guard IWIN bandwagon eventually and stop playing them.

 

Thats pretty much it. Besides of repeating a Problem that exists for quite a long time now over and over again, I feel that the factions in T5 are very unbalanced:

  1. Jerry-ships are, except for the frigate line which is completely OP, useless. 

  2. Empire seems to have the strongest and best ships in T5 overall: Recon is great, Gunship is great, even Command and ECM are good. And the Naga is imo still the best healer in T5 since  the Fed. engies are very weak.  

3.All Feds are very weak in terms of survivability (I know, factional speciality, but its degrading even harder the higher th tier) which renders them quite useless in Guard-land.

Also: Tacklers are still UP in general and dont fulfill a real purpose, while i see no sense in advancing the covops line since Eagle-M is able to compete with most T5s, actually I dont see a real gain in advancing to the falcon, because of the energy problems.  

608

I got back to the game for a few games with corp mates at T5, and it’s pretty much the same that it was when I played it a week ago - guards galore. ESB is still flying guard+engineer+gunship IWIN comp, and randoms know that they are pretty much unkillable in guards. We lost one 3v3 because gunship+ECM+engineer could not retake a beacon against two guys in guards chain pushing beacon one by one. Five full overheats on singularity from a gunship with overdrive and aiming overcharge were not enough to kill a solo pushing guard without any support that didn’t suck even with fire support from my engineer. Two of them rushing in chain effectively stopped us from recapturing beacon for long enough to win. And quite a few times they got me down in a gunship before dying, because of soundless invisible EM torps recharging fast enough…

 

Until guards are either cut in about half in terms of survivability, or singularity cannon is buffed to do about twice the damage it currently does, guards will rule T5 with iron fist. Not much else to see there. Just hope that most people get bored of guard IWIN bandwagon eventually and stop playing them.

 

Offcourse i agree … but i don’t think you can fix it that way

 

Guards should be totally revisited ,need a drastical change…starting from modules coming to their role in battle.

 

At the moment they can be only completly OP as they are now in high tiers couse of their crazy damage output, self heal, pulsar and incredible high survivability… OR completly usless if you reduce their survivability too much.

609

At last, finnaly someone that was not saying: GUARDS SHOULD BE NERFED only, as in wishing they become useless machines, if in T5 things are so bad, they should change asap, since the tendency is for the T’s to increase, like, in a year to have T10 ships and so on, so imagine a guard with 500k survivability. Hehehehe things can get ugly.

 

The most surprising thing is that this comment came from Ales the dude who talked a bunch of crap before. But that post of yours deserve a UP.

610

Modules like Pulsar, AMS, Prop inhib. Signature Masking are fine. They define a guard. 

The strong heals have to go. Would be at least a good start and would make them more dependent to Engies which the would have to GUARD (good Idea, huh?) 

With them gone Inties have at least a chance to “wear them off” and guards have to think twice about the “Torpedo in ur face”. 

60k Survivabilty at max should be enough for Jerry Guards (IIRC Feds have 45k?) . 

 

Whats bugging me for a long time: ECM cant break pulsars. Fix it!

 

@Kraimax: yes, things are very ugly in T5: Its all about Guards and Gunships: No diversity. 

611

It’s because the point of the game is to win!  That’s the thing with an ESB squad on your team.  You know they’ll get the most kills, but the win chance is the same unless the match ends on a win on kills.

 

Lifetime or recent?  Lifetime doesn’t tell you enough, recent could.  Setting a maximum DSR could also help it get knocked down.

 

From what I’ve seen, 1050-1200 is most common for solo pilots who are decent.  Below that and it’s getting into below average territory.  I have seen less than 900.  Seeing a solo pilot above 1300 is rare.  I’ve padded mine from T2 synergy grinds.  Above 1300-1400 they’re almost always in a corp and fly in squads regularly.  It’s easier to triple team for a kill and have friends to cover your xxxx, and you have less of a chance of being abandoned and alone.

 

A squad can more easily boost their DSR than a solo pilot.  It does matter when trying to compare pilots.  Some players are more about kills, some more about objectives, and some about staying alive.

 

One of the biggest helps would be to include assists into DSR until the devs work out a good replacement.  Getting only damage assists and no kills can lower the DSR of a good player just because of kill stealing.

simply not true, i fly solo 99.99 percent of the time and average over a 1400 DSR and ask most people who have fought me i’m usually the first one on the scene of battle :stuck_out_tongue: i got that by not even farming lol  even being a solo a lot. most of the time i find people below 1300 not very much of a threat. just got to evade then evade some more then dodge even more shoot one shot and evade even more then have 7 locks on you and hope you dont die and evade more :slight_smile: (learned that from a match with a intense battle with NASA vs ESB)

Interesting. Some of the better players in the game have between 1500 and 1600 when flying mostly solo. Is that the new excuse people use? I haven’t seen the “it’s the team comp” one yet, usually the excuse is “you’re flying in a squad”.

 

And indeed, for me below 1300 is something that I don’t much care about unless it’s random pulsar or jericho/EM torp/suicide. Near zero threat.

(i hate to agree with luckyo -.-) but 1500 to 1600 are the players to look out for… any above 1700 i dont even bother with they run away WAY to much… run in one hit and run away :confused: did happen to see a guy in a battle with over 2100 DSR and i almost **** myself.  he spent the whole match micro warping to the edge of the maps, what a joke… all for DSR. (plus that guy was solo if i remember right)

612

Modules like Pulsar, AMS, Prop inhib. Signature Masking are fine. They define a guard. 

The strong heals have to go. Would be at least a good start and would make them more dependent to Engies which the would have to GUARD (good Idea, huh?) 

With them gone Inties have at least a chance to “wear them off” and guards have to think twice about the “Torpedo in ur face”. 

60k Survivabilty at max should be enough for Jerry Guards (IIRC Feds have 45k?) . 

 

Whats bugging me for a long time: ECM cant break pulsars. Fix it!

 

@Kraimax: yes, things are very ugly in T5: Its all about Guards and Gunships: No diversity. 

so true! why doesnt ecm stop pulsar? it causes mod failure. and on that note why doesnt combat reboot work like it is suppose to? it should be the only mod that combats the ecm, but doest seem able to use if your already ecmed, but in its description it says the complete oppisite. please fix both :smiley:

613

Mhe no… actually if you make pulsar interruptable it becomes completly usless.

 

Point is Pulsar should be a tactical module… not an assault one (Activate Pulsar, move in, mortars shoots and watch how maany faggots are going to die).

 

What i think is this: make Guards unable to move or to shoot when pulsar is running.

 

This way people will use it for tacticaal propuses as save Engi from that inties’ swarm focusing him … or to negate a ninja beeacon capture… exetera.

 

About healing modules i agree… remove them is a must.

 

I don’t agree on a general survivability nerf. U can nerf hull strenght on jerry guards … but that’s all. 

614

Mhe no… actually if you make pulsar interruptable it becomes completly usless.

 

Point is Pulsar should be a tactical module… not an assault one (Activate Pulsar, move in, mortars shoots and watch how maany faggots are going to die).

 

What i think is this: make Guards unable to move or to shoot when pulsar is running.

 

This way people will use it for tacticaal propuses as save Engi from that inties’ swarm focusing him … or to negate a ninja beeacon capture… exetera.

 

About healing modules i agree… remove them is a must.

 

I don’t agree on a general survivability nerf. U can nerf hull strenght on jerry guards … but that’s all. 

Once you get to the hull, the jericho guard is actually vulnerable. But before you do, it’s broken OP. We’re looking at 40k+ of shields with another ~20k from regen module, +100 resist to shield on top of good base stats, weapon suppressor and EM torpedo/pulsar. Fact is, jericho guard at T5 can easily tank singularity gunship long enough to fire two, in some cases all three EM torpedoes at it before dying. That is a guaranteed kill even if it doesn’t use pulsar or weapons at all!

That is pants on head kind of crazy OP. Singularity gunships are supposed to hard counter frigates. Instead they are currently hard countered by guard frigates.

 

Of course, as of typing this everything in the game except possibly LFRs is hard countered by guards frigates, so this point is kinda moot. Broken OP ship is broken OP. I’d rather harshly reduce baseline survivability and leave it with shield regen module because it promotes skilled play and timing. Right now, guard is semi-passive floating IDDQD+IDKFA machine that doesn’t even require usage of modules to be successful because base stats are so ridiculous and EM torpedo is completely broken. Massive reduction in base stats would also allow ships like ECM/command to perform their shutdown task by killing the regen module, i.e. it would actually be countered with skilled play.

Passive stats cannot be countered with skilled play. They’re there no matter what you do. That is why guard is a preferred ship for terrible players. Skill is completely optional and skill ceiling is very low on guards, so it really doesn’t matter much if you’re an excellent guard pilot or a terrible one. Your success rate will not change in a meaningful way when compared to same skill difference for any other ship.

 

That is why I say that base stats should be gutted. Remove EM torps in their current form, gut the base stats, but leave the powerful modules so that skill ceiling when playing guards actually goes up, and difference between a terrible player and a great one would be immediately visible, as it currently is with all other ships.

615

so true! why doesnt ecm stop pulsar? it causes mod failure. and on that note why doesnt combat reboot work like it is suppose to? it should be the only mod that combats the ecm, but doest seem able to use if your already ecmed, but in its description it says the complete oppisite. please fix both :smiley:

Because pulsar is supposed to be interceptor counter.

 

On the other hand, singularity gunship is supposed to be guard counter, so yeah, it’s not like devs do their counters properly anyway. Ion beam and command ship’s ion missile might as well shut down pulsar. Not that it would matter much.

616

Guards counter singularity gunship? In what world do you live…

 

Torpedoes are very easy to evade if you don’t stand still while engaging the guard.

617

Guards counter singularity gunship? In what world do you live…

 

Torpedoes are very easy to evade if you don’t stand still while engaging the guard.

Real one. One where other people who posted on these forums are playing.

 

And yeah, maybe your torpedoes are easy to dodge, I don’t know. Haven’t played against you ever since you ran from the tier I play in. People who have half a clue rarely if ever miss with torpedoes. 360/360 firing, huge range of the fuse and complete silence/invisibility of the torpedo ensure that anyone who isn’t utterly terrible will hit with them.

618

Ah yes, it’s so hard to predict and shoot ahead of the target with a projectile that flies at over 500m/s and has a huge fuse radius on top of being completely invisible to the victim.

 

Seriously, just how terrible are you at this game to view this as something other than trivially easy task?

 

P.S. Guard with AMS playing in low tiers rarely getting hitting by torpedoes. Color me surprised :facepalm:

 

P.P.S. I find it trivially easy to connect EM torpedo on my LFR when singularity gunship begins an attack run. That’s about two kilometers out. They never know it’s coming until it connects.

Thank you for proving me right in every aspect of my previous post.

 

Exactly, those pilots are Aces and have no idea how to evade.

And the fuse radius is a lot smaller than it used to be.

 

You said you haven’t seen me, yet dare to presume I only fly guards? You are a joke and a goddamn idiot. No other way to say it.

619

What i think is this: make Guards unable to move or to shoot when pulsar is running.

 

Maybe a drop in mobility would work: reduced acceleration, strafe and rotation, and speed capped at a certain value (the ship will automatically slow down to reach the cap).

620

Singularity is an everything counter but Guards  actually… 

 

I mean if u find a guy capable to use it on a gunship (not skilled… just not dumb) if u are flying any interceptor or any other fighter with different wepon…well 9 times out of 10 you are dead.

 

If you increase its damage u will not solve anything.

 

Actually singularity cannon is one of the big iusse in this game: made as a frig counter in the beginning… is now a game breaker but can’t counter guards.

 

Imho 4 things atm are making the game boring as hell: Guards,Singlularity cannon, Guided torpedos Spam and Figates’ Laser (honestly: if it has just a little more range it could hit you when u are in hangar too).

 

 

 

Now… imho u can’t buff one broken thing to make another one less boring…