Star Conflict OBT v.0.9.7 Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
381

In a way, I find it quite ironic how the hypocritical frigateers are out in force to whine about “omg big crits” of singularity cannon that can’t even take out a paper-LFR before it overheats and requires at least 3 full overheats against a smart guard, but vigorously defend the EM torpedo that effectively one shots interceptors that don’t have EB (and will finish off that inty with autoaimed shot in a second anyway).

 

I had to recently level LFR from R7 up. I have not seen a single interceptor that could take my LFR on and survive. In fact, I haven’t seen all that many inty pairs that could do it. It usually took three or more of those “oh noes my R7 ship suxxor, their R9 rapes me” R9 inties to handle my R7 LFR.

About the only deaths I had came from either me deciding that I want to kill the target rather than survive when I saw the lock on icon light up, or when I ran out of EM torpedoes and got attacked by several people at once. That and attrition deaths due to lack of heals and non-stop zerg attacks where you just run out of health eventually.

 

Why? Because I know how to play. Skill is OP as hell in this game in lower tiers. Because there are so few players that have it, that they tend to just steer clear of each other and farm the easy targets instead. That’s what most decent ints did after seeing my DSR, getting a huge hard-on, zerging me for two-three deaths, deflating, deciding that viagra isn’t going to help and go to find someone who won’t reduce their DSR.

 

My problem however is that skill becomes massively underpowered in higher tiers where auto aim god mode guards can do whatever the hell they want. Unless they completely fail, they will likely win just by nature of being overpowered to hell guard frigates.

An LRF that needs 3 overheat cycles of Singularity before dying? Lemme guess, Empire. Cause Jericho, unless you fit a large EM resist and buffer, I find it hard to believe they’d survive a handful of rounds, let alone 3 overheat cycles, considering my Guard, with 200 EM resists, can’t survive 2 cycles.

Do take note I’m mostly complaining about the aberrant damage I receive on my R9 Guard, when compared to your R7 LRF. You say you can survive 3 overheat cycles? I believe you. So what’s wrong in this picture? You either have 200 EM resists on shield and hull or something’s amiss.

 

And defend the EM Torpedo? Me? Where have you seen me say anything in favour of it? It’s the most broken missile in the game. High damage, fast, but most important of all, it’s a STEALTHY xxxx. You just CANNOT avoid it without looking at the missile streak and that’s incredibly hard in certain maps.

 

Skill is meaningless in any Tier. And not because of auto-aim, it’s because, mostly, of suicide tactics STILL rewarding the pilot that killed himself for whatever reasons they thought it would be good.

 

Description, screenshots?

The match was set around… 7pm-ish and there was only 3 pilots on either side. Total of 6. On my team, R7-R10, on the enemy team R2-R8-ish (the R2 guy had a Zealot, Machete & Dagger AE, unsure if he was in a group, but didn’t seem like it).

My team’s DSR floated between 1460 (mine) and 1140’s (the guy with the sole R10), whilst the enemy’s DSR did not even scrape above 1000.

 

How come I had to wait 2 minutes (average waiting time for a T3 match, imo) and got that pitiful thing?

382

the R2 guy had a Zealot, Machete & Dagger AE, unsure if he was in a group, but didn’t seem like it

My team’s DSR floated between 1460 (mine) and 1140’s (the guy with the sole R10), whilst the enemy’s DSR did not even scrape above 1000.

 

How come I had to wait 2 minutes (average waiting time for a T3 match, imo) and got that pitiful thing?

  1. He was.

  2. You were either in 5th or 6th que, most probably 5th. No bug.

  3. Waiting time is normal for that time.

383

Nope, does not make sense. You get lower reward bonus on lower ranked ships, so it evens out. As an example, you can get about 50k+ sinergy in a t5 game with daily bonus. You will not get that much sinergy on a T2 ship, no matter what you kill. It still does not make any sense to take weaker ships into higher ranked games. 

I haven’t done it a lot I’ll admit.  It does seem easier to hit max synergy on the ships.  Maybe I’ll test zero use synergy gains.  The ships may be a little weaker, but with the right play style and knowledge you can balance it out.  For the LRF, it’s just sit there and snipe.  It’s actually more fun in PvE!  I wish synergy gains weren’t such a mystery about how to gain it.

384

  1. He was.

  2. You were either in 5th or 6th que, most probably 5th. No bug.

  3. Waiting time is normal for that time.

So…system works as intended for a T3 queue at that time of the day. That. Is not. Normal. I NEVER caught a 3v3 in T3. Nor in any other Tier below that. This is not how it normally functions, nor should it ever. If you tell me this is how it normally functions, there is something seriously wrong with both you and the developers.

385

Oryngton sometims you get 5 second queues in T3, sometimes 2 minute.

I get about 90% 12 v 12, 10% 3 v 3 or 4 v 4.

386

Oryngton sometims you get 5 second queues in T3, sometimes 2 minute.

I get about 90% 12 v 12, 10% 3 v 3 or 4 v 4.

I never got anything below 8v8 in T3.

387

In a way, I find it quite ironic how the hypocritical frigateers are out in force to whine about “omg big crits” of singularity cannon that can’t even take out a paper-LFR before it overheats and requires at least 3 full overheats against a smart guard, but vigorously defend the EM torpedo that effectively one shots interceptors that don’t have EB (and will finish off that inty with autoaimed shot in a second anyway).

An LRF that needs 3 overheat cycles of Singularity before dying?

 

 

And I can conclude that oryngton can’t even comprehend what he reads or is trolling hardcore. To erect a massive “guard equals LFR, takes three singularity overheats, so you said, harharhar” strawman and proceed to demolish it with glee, it takes a special kind of a troll. Or an idiot. Or both.

 

You should at least avoid quoting the post that clearly shows that you’re erecting an exceptionally obvious strawman to make at least some people take you seriously.

 

 

And if you can’t take three singularity overheats on a guard, you need to learn to play a guard. Badly. I’ve never met a good guard that knew how to play who would take less than three overheats. More often than not, good ones will make my positioning so hard if they can’t counterfire on me, that it takes more than that. Because they know that singularity has the harshest positioning requirements of all anti-frigate weapons in the game and they take full advantage of this fact. Something that does indeed require more than a cursory knowledge of game mechanics.

 

Baddies on the other hand are a completely different story. If they open their rear to me, ignore their positioning requirements and do other dumb stuff, they die much faster. But so does everyone else who does dumb stuff. That’s the nature of having a skill based game. Playing unskillfully kills you!

And guess what? Guard can kill a gunship about 30-70% faster than gunship can kill a guard in a proper face off depending on racials, and that’s just with main guns. If you connect EM torpedo, which you should, you win the match by default. So if you die in a guard to a gunship, you got outplayed hard. In most cases, even significant mistakes like missing the EM torpedo or straying too far away from your engineer on your part result in you outdamaging the gunship and forcing him to retreat before he can kill you or die trying.

388

 And I can conclude that oryngton can’t even comprehend what he reads or is trolling hardcore. To erect a massive “guard equals LFR, takes three singularity overheats, so you said, harharhar” strawman and proceed to demolish it with glee, it takes a special kind of a troll. Or an idiot. Or both.

 

You should at least avoid quoting the post that clearly shows that you’re erecting an exceptionally obvious strawman to make at least some people take you seriously.

Oh, I just misread it. You know, sarcasm is a hard thing to convey over the internet, you should be careful with that. Plus, I have a mild dyslexia that makes my brain read paragraphs diagonally, so I often miss out on a few words, changing the whole context of what people mean to express…

 

And if you can’t take three singularity overheats on a guard, you need to learn to play a guard. Badly. I’ve never met a good guard that knew how to play who would take less than three overheats. More often than not, good ones will make my positioning so hard if they can’t counterfire on me, that it takes more than that. Because they know that singularity has the harshest positioning requirements of all anti-frigate weapons in the game and they take full advantage of this fact. Something that does indeed require more than a cursory knowledge of game mechanics.

And guess what? Guard can kill a gunship about 30-70% faster than gunship can kill a guard in a proper face off depending on racials, and that’s just with main guns. If you connect EM torpedo, which you should, you win the match by default. So if you die in a guard to a gunship, you got outplayed hard. In most cases, even significant mistakes like missing the EM torpedo or straying too far away from your engineer on your part result in you outdamaging the gunship and forcing him to retreat before he can kill you or die trying.

I say I can’t handle 2 overheats because, by the time they start firing, they’re already glued to my face and I can’t do anything to shake them off my xxxx. Can I handle any Singularity ship if they present themselves in front of me? Yes, I can. Even if they’re just half hidden, they die easily. However, you can’t shoot at what’s glued to your face and orbiting you like a xxxx while shooting those 8k crits at you. NOTHING can survive that.

389

I say I can’t handle 2 overheats because, by the time they start firing, they’re already glued to my face and I can’t do anything to shake them off my xxxx. Can I handle any Singularity ship if they present themselves in front of me? Yes, I can. Even if they’re just half hidden, they die easily. However, you can’t shoot at what’s glued to your face and orbiting you like a xxxx while shooting those 8k crits at you. NOTHING can survive that.

So you lack situational awareness completely, and yet you like to play a ship that is all about positional teamplay and situational awareness. Then you proceed to complain that you fail.

Problem is, if we balance for people who play this badly, as we apparently do now, what we get on top is what we have now - god mode guards. Because if you actually do possess situational awareness, you’re not going to notice someone only after he is “glued to your xxxx”, you’re going to notice him either when he disengages from the main enemy group to go around, or when he’s approaching from 3km mark to execute an attack run. And when you do, by the time he’s “in your xxxx” and starts firing, he’s already half dead from your main gun fire and all you need to do it RMB him to EB followed by LMB finisher. Which is a normal scenario when doing attack runs on skilled guard pilots in T4 right now and why the only thing that has any sort of “counter” effect on guards right now is LFR, and even that is limited. Other than that, the only thing that can be done about them is meatrushing, where you’re guaranteed to lose several ships in the process.

Again, assuming skilled guard pilots. Skill is indeed OP, apparently…

And frankly, if you can come back from not noticing a gunship going on your xxxx, which you actually can right now with RMB + pulsar in most cases, meaning gunship worked for his kill, did everything right to the point of picking the supposed anti-frigate setup on an anti-frigate ship, whereas you failed hard and did everything wrong and you still win because you’re a guard frigate - the game’s balance is broken and everyone who wants to play to win will mostly play guard frigates. Which is what we’re seeing now.

390

 About the EM torpedo

 

 

Well, i’ve never used EM unguided torpedo on interceptors, can u explain what makes it so powerfull? Since if an inti is close to you, and you launch, and it detonates in your face u take a ridiculous amount of dammage too. So really, i want to know why you say EM torpedo is OP. It is slow as hell, the missile warning will warn an int of an incomming whatever, it does AOE, but if u stay 401m away u are safe since it is unguided. So, whats the big deal with EM Torps, i find them not so goot at all.

391

So you lack situational awareness completely, and yet you like to play a ship that is all about positional teamplay and situational awareness. Then you proceed to complain that you fail.

Problem is, if we balance for people who play this badly, as we apparently do now, what we get on top is what we have now - god mode guards. Because if you actually do possess situational awareness, you’re not going to notice someone only after he is “glued to your xxxx”, you’re going to notice him either when he disengages from the main enemy group to go around, or when he’s approaching from 3km mark to execute an attack run. And when you do, by the time he’s “in your xxxx” and starts firing, he’s already half dead from your main gun fire and all you need to do it RMB him to EB followed by LMB finisher. Which is a normal scenario when doing attack runs on skilled guard pilots in T4 right now and why the only thing that has any sort of “counter” effect on guards right now is LFR, and even that is limited. Other than that, the only thing that can be done about them is meatrushing, where you’re guaranteed to lose several ships in the process.

Again, assuming skilled guard pilots. Skill is indeed OP, apparently…

And frankly, if you can come back from not noticing a gunship going on your xxxx, which you actually can right now with RMB + pulsar in most cases, meaning gunship worked for his kill, did everything right to the point of picking the supposed anti-frigate setup on an anti-frigate ship, whereas you failed hard and did everything wrong and you still win because you’re a guard frigate - the game’s balance is broken and everyone who wants to play to win will mostly play guard frigates. Which is what we’re seeing now.

 

Just so you know, a guards scanner isnt so long, and a gunship with engine boost and overdrive active can reach motherfucking speeds, and with that 2000m or 3000m scanner, 2 or 3 KM are ran by the fighter in 4-5 sec, that big of a whale guard cant even check all his sides and position correctly before a fighter is glued to him.

 

Of course, this can be improved by having recons with good scanners, but there are a LOT of matches that our team snipers cant do xxxx cause everyone decides to NOT equip good scanners on inties.

392

Well, i’ve never used EM unguided torpedo on interceptors, can u explain what makes it so powerfull? Since if an inti is close to you, and you launch, and it detonates in your face u take a ridiculous amount of dammage too. So really, i want to know why you say EM torpedo is OP. It is slow as hell, the missile warning will warn an int of an incomming whatever, it does AOE, but if u stay 401m away u are safe since it is unguided. So, whats the big deal with EM Torps, i find them not so goot at all.

The fact that torpedo does about 1/4 to 1/9th of your effective health, while it does about 90-150% of interceptor’s effective health. Meaning interceptor survives if he has EB, and is then one shotted by you a second after.

393

Just so you know, a guards scanner isnt so long, and a gunship with engine boost and overdrive active can reach motherfucking speeds, and with that 2000m or 3000m scanner, 2 or 3 KM are ran by the fighter in 4-5 sec, that big of a whale guard cant even check all his sides and position correctly before a fighter is glued to him.

 

Of course, this can be improved by having recons with good scanners, but there are a LOT of matches that our team snipers cant do xxxx cause everyone decides to NOT equip good scanners on inties.

Guard having to “check his sides” suggests lack of situational awareness. Normally you monitor the units who are actually threatening to you on the battlefield all the time, such as diamonds with crosses on them. It’s not that hard. If it is, then it’s time to start learning because it’s a fairly basic skill to have that transitions well to other games.

In case of gunships, it’s fairly easy to tell when one is about to make a flanking attack run on you. There are several telltale signs, and most experienced players like myself don’t even think about them - you just get the feeling that he’s about to do it because your subconscious/intuition puts the picture together for you without having to waste conscious thought on it and then you rotate your ship to prepare for it accordingly. In most cases, when I fly the gunship in higher tiers the only reason a good guard isn’t going to be facing me when I go for a flanking maneuver is because he’s busy suppressing someone else.

That in fact is currently the only way to reliably fight guard frigates. Overwhelm them with meat, force engagement with someone threatening and then flank and hit as hard as you can with as many people as you can. And pray he doesn’t walk away from it with his huge effective health pool regardless, simply because you didn’t have the damage eat through that hilarious effective health pool.

394

So you lack situational awareness completely, and yet you like to play a ship that is all about positional teamplay and situational awareness. Then you proceed to complain that you fail.

Problem is, if we balance for people who play this badly, as we apparently do now, what we get on top is what we have now - god mode guards. Because if you actually do possess situational awareness, you’re not going to notice someone only after he is “glued to your xxxx”, you’re going to notice him either when he disengages from the main enemy group to go around, or when he’s approaching from 3km mark to execute an attack run. And when you do, by the time he’s “in your xxxx” and starts firing, he’s already half dead from your main gun fire and all you need to do it RMB him to EB followed by LMB finisher. Which is a normal scenario when doing attack runs on skilled guard pilots in T4 right now and why the only thing that has any sort of “counter” effect on guards right now is LFR, and even that is limited. Other than that, the only thing that can be done about them is meatrushing, where you’re guaranteed to lose several ships in the process.

Again, assuming skilled guard pilots. Skill is indeed OP, apparently…

And frankly, if you can come back from not noticing a gunship going on your xxxx, which you actually can right now with RMB + pulsar in most cases, meaning gunship worked for his kill, did everything right to the point of picking the supposed anti-frigate setup on an anti-frigate ship, whereas you failed hard and did everything wrong and you still win because you’re a guard frigate - the game’s balance is broken and everyone who wants to play to win will mostly play guard frigates. Which is what we’re seeing now.

I never said I was a good pilot. I enjoy flying Guards, I rarely die in them, I DO have the situational awareness in defending a Beacon or attacking it enough to outlast a group of ships but I can’t look 360º all around me to see if the bubble xxxxxxx are flanking me to make a new exhaust on my rear end! I usually leave that to my team mates BEHIND ME which are worse than me at seeing those things. Then, out of nowhere, 2 of them behind me are dead and I’m quickly surrounded by EVERYTHING. I can’t work miracles when everyone starts dying, it’s physically impossible for me.

 

Just because I’m not a perfect pilot, doesn’t mean I want xxxx to be OP, or nerfed into oblivion. The same way my Guard dies in a few overheat cycles, my Ceptors die in 3 rounds to that gun because xxxx LOGIC AND AOE WEAPONS! The gun is broken. Simple as that. It NEEDS fixing.

 

The game is being dumbed down so those that have no skill can kill just as easily as those that can. And those that can play are suffering from it, as well.

 

And I don’t use EM Torpedoes on my Guard, I use Anomalies because I’m not a xxxx and because EM Torps are OP because you can’t hear them and you get a face-full of that stuff from out of xxxx nowhere. A LOT of mechanics and items are broken in this game and not just in balance issues, they’re just outright broken. Get off your xxxx elitist prick skyscraper-sized pedestal and get a real grip on what’s going on in the game. What you’re basically saying is that Guards are OP. Well, time to nerf them, isn’t it!

 

 

Edit: You know… I was always under the impression you were a nice, cool guy. Funky’s right. You’re a xxxx.

395

I’m blunt about some things. If that makes me an xxxx in your book, then so be it. Frankly I find it much more intriguing that you are expecting to fail the only real skill requirement that guard frigate has, situational awareness, and yet still succeed, even when opponent does everything right and you do everything wrong. In my opinion, that’s just plain asshattery towards the guy who outplayed you. If I’m outplayed, I usually /tiphat and take it as a challenge and try to do better next time.

And if you actually ever met me in game, which you have as we’ve been in the same corp for a while, you’d find that for the most part, I’m a nice guy when person I’m talking to is not being an xxxx. Which is probably where your first impression comes from. Sadly you made an xxxx out of yourself just a couple of posts ago and I’m blunt about those things.

P.S. Also, “I don’t use torps because they’re OP” and yet you still fly frigates? I’m sorry, what?

396

Luckyo please, someone with your L33T skillz should have no problem with those OP frigates right? Because they totally are OP right? Right?

 

Yeah, no.

397

I’m blunt about some things. If that makes me an xxxx in your book, then so be it. Frankly I find it much more intriguing that you are expecting to fail the only real skill requirement that guard frigate has, situational awareness, and yet still succeed, even when opponent does everything right and you do everything wrong. In my opinion, that’s just plain asshattery towards the guy who outplayed you. If I’m outplayed, I usually /tiphat and take it as a challenge and try to do better next time.

And if you actually ever met me in game, which you have as we’ve been in the same corp for a while, you’d find that for the most part, I’m a nice guy when person I’m talking to is not being an xxxx. Which is probably where your first impression comes from. Sadly you made an xxxx out of yourself just a couple of posts ago and I’m blunt about those things.

P.S. Also, “I don’t use torps because they’re OP” and yet you still fly frigates? I’m sorry, what?

The only times I actually fly the Guard is when I’m defending the Captain in Recon or when the team decides to frigball it (even then it’s very rarely). My experience from flying Guards comes from THE 0.8 ship revamp. If other pilots fly better than me, I either move on or attempt revenge. If they kill me the second time, I switch targets and try to either avoid that pilot or gang him. I’ve actually PM’d more than a handful of them, complimenting their skills, like any good sport. Though, in recent times, I haven’t purely because of the bad teams I’m grouped with and it’s frustrating. I thrive to become a better pilot with each encounter… But with each passing match, in the last few patches, it gets worse and worse and worse because of the people I meet on the field, even if I group up…

 

You ARE a nice guy. That’s what’s pissing me off about you, now. And just because I misread a post, that means you get to shoot me in the head? Some friends… Pointing things out is one thing but just mashing the wound when the guy apologized… Jeez…

 

And I use TWO Frigates in RARE occasions. I use the LRF to finish the contract and the Guard in very specific situations…

398

Luckyo please, someone with your L33T skillz should have no problem with those OP frigates right? Because they totally are OP right? Right?

 

Yeah, no.

Was the last part talking about your reading comprehension? The fact that you are so bad at it, that you can’t even read this part?

My problem however is that skill becomes massively underpowered in higher tiers where auto aim god mode guards can do whatever the hell they want. Unless they completely fail, they will likely win just by nature of being overpowered to hell guard frigates.

399

And to be specific, I am pissed at the game right now. A lot. Essentially the game that was frigate conflict for over three months gave us a patch that made skill really matter in top play.

And then, after a bunch of whiners who couldn’t hit anything because it actually required aim to hit things started a wall of whine, it was taken away. And suddenly, top tiers became the god mode guard land again.

It was one hell of an eye opener as to the state of the game and just how much depth there could be to it beyond “focus gunship, okay he’s dead now focus engineer, okay he’s dead now focus guard, he’s dead, okay let’s mop up the harmless trash that is left” that is top level play with autoaim in game. The game is basically not a shooter - it’s an RTS that’s all about logistics at top level, where the only aspect of skill that matters is bringing the right tools to the right place. Execution is so easy, it’s expected.

It’s like giving a man who was on bread and water for over free months a full course, and then yanking it away after he got two spoons of appetizer eaten. So yes, I’m pissed off to the point where I haven’t bothered playing the game at all lately, screw the premium time and all.

And seeing people use arguments like “well, I’m bad at the game, so I should be able to faceroll to victory because I’m flying a guard”, while very accurate to describe the current state of the game isn’t exactly resonating well with people such as myself.

400

This is why you need to ban lower tiers from from higher tiered games:

 

A typical T4 match

 

screenshot-131002-200652.jpg

 

1 of our team was a T2 LRF (only ship)

1 of our team was a T4 ship and 3 T2 ships

Enemy team was full T4

 

on topic: I side with Luckyo in the guard/singualirty conflict. Singularity can be very powerful in certain situations, but it’s not OP as some people make it to be. It’s not just about skill. In some situations there is no ammount of your skill as a Guard that will save you. If enemy team is bringing lots of fighters you just dont bring a guard to the game. Basic logic.