Star Conflict OBT v.0.9.7 Discussion

So you picked one line out of context and utterly failed to see what I was getting at and now you want to fail to prove me wrong with a meaningless show of your “skill”?

 

No thanks. Maybe if you were intending to pull up a table of stats that showed, across all tiers and skill levels, Gunships earn comparable end-game scores to all other classes (which is blatantly untrue) I’d listen, but you aren’t, so I won’t.

When you go into T3+ there are more and more people flying to Win and not to ammas Efficiency points on a score board like in T2, and when people do that they pick Gunships, and in the games where there is a Frigballa, gunships will be the ones on the top of the efficiency + recons with Beacon captures, most of the time. 

my personal opinion to the this patch - an ashaming rollback, nothing else.

A lot of people left the game already and the other will follow them.This game is just going to be for some people with no expirience in computer games and having no skills. The 3 men squad isnt able to care the hole team and if you are good pilot you will get decent enemies and a crap team going to get 0 points.

How to get it better? Dont try to rebalance it!The people that cannnot play it well cause they are just not able to think strategical or havent some reflexes will never be better. You cannot nerv skills

Just nerv the guided torpedo, the guard should be able to get them with the missle shield, fix the bugs and release it. You will loose your all players that are enforcing newbees to buy some premium wepons munition or what ever.

 

At least you lost one paying customer then i will never pay a cent for this game again.

Actually… I just missed the single most bloody obvious bugbear of the whole system.

 

Devs, if you don’t want people like me flying in T1 and T2 against inexperienced pilots… if you want me to stay in T3 or, better still, move up to T4…

 

Why do I have to level every ship individually?

 

Why do you FORCE me to fly Tier 2 ships that I would otherwise buy my way past?

 

This thinking is oxymoronic. You don’t want people “camping” in lower tiers and scaring off new players with their amazing pure-blue ships and superior skills… and yet the only way for a player like me to jump from flying Rank 9 Empire to Rank 9 Jericho is to go back to Tier 1…

You know that the last Nerf to bubbles was heating and heating penalty. 

If you cant kill a LRF easily with overdrive+bubbles (it overheats before the kill, if you dont slow down the cadence) you know that it could need a buff. 

Actually I come to think, that maybe Fighter Lazor is a better anti-Frig weapon than Bubbles. 

In the eyes of the pilot, if you can’t 1-shot anything, it’s not balanced and needs a buff… The Singularity Cannon, however is WAY off the marks. My Guard… That’s right, a Guard with 200 EM Shield resist. STILL takes 10k crits. My Kris-AE, with roughly 80EM resists, STILL takes 5k crits to the face. I mean, seriously. Not OP’d enough, yet? A xxxx Ceptor gets annihilated by a bubble gun. The devs claim it to be an AoE weapon. Then why doesn’t it act like one? Damage according to ship size too hard or something? End_Damage/Ship_Size too hard of an equation?

 

The issue here is that the Devs are, I assume, looking for a game where everyone is equally inclined to take every class… and then making those classes utterly disparate.

 

Part two of the problem is that there is no weapon or module that distinguishes its effect by target. Singularity Cannons have the same DPS whether you fire at a Frigate or an Interceptor. Imagine, for a moment, that the Singularity Cannon did only 50% damage vs Interceptors and 75% damage vs Fighters. Or what if Tacklers had all their weapon damage reduced by 50% vs Frigates and a 25% reduction vs Fighters? What if ECM were likewise tweaked to make them terrible vs Interceptors but powerful vs Frigates?

 

But in a game where four CovOps could easily wipe out eight Frigates? That is balanced. Why? Because those four CovOps could be countered by a pair of Tacklers. The only way to win would be to have a mixed bag of ships - something to hard counter any and all possible enemies. It would be the end of hyper-specialisation on a team level, whilst encouraging hyper-specialisation on an individual one.

That’s the point. Ceptors should be the ones killing Frigates. However, that’s not true because Ceptors can’t deal enough damage to them without dying. Fighters, on the other hand, can wipe everything off the face of the galaxy if they all fit bubble guns and Ion Emitters. And Frigballing is still op’d because of the beautiful synergy between Engies and Guards. Balance!

Actually… I just missed the single most bloody obvious bugbear of the whole system.

 

Devs, if you don’t want people like me flying in T1 and T2 against inexperienced pilots… if you want me to stay in T3 or, better still, move up to T4…

 

Why do I have to level every ship individually?

 

Why do you FORCE me to fly Tier 2 ships that I would otherwise buy my way past?

 

This thinking is oxymoronic. You don’t want people “camping” in lower tiers and scaring off new players with their amazing pure-blue ships and superior skills… and yet the only way for a player like me to jump from flying Rank 9 Empire to Rank 9 Jericho is to go back to Tier 1…

Leveling R1 to R7 with license is a matter of hours for a single ship branch (granted you need enough money to buy the next ship as soon as it unlocked, but if you are coming back from T3+ back to level new branch you got enough moneys) 

Actually… I just missed the single most bloody obvious bugbear of the whole system.

 

Devs, if you don’t want people like me flying in T1 and T2 against inexperienced pilots… if you want me to stay in T3 or, better still, move up to T4…

 

Why do I have to level every ship individually?

 

Why do you FORCE me to fly Tier 2 ships that I would otherwise buy my way past?

 

This thinking is oxymoronic. You don’t want people “camping” in lower tiers and scaring off new players with their amazing pure-blue ships and superior skills… and yet the only way for a player like me to jump from flying Rank 9 Empire to Rank 9 Jericho is to go back to Tier 1…

Oh no, they don’t give a toss if you kill newbies, they want players to move to the next ship in line as soon as it reach max synergy. If you blaze trough the ranks then your loyalty won’t be able to keep up and you will feel compelled to buy premium. That’s the real plan.

Leveling R1 to R7 with license is a matter of hours for a single ship branch (granted you need enough money to buy the next ship as soon as it unlocked, but if you are coming back from T3+ back to level new branch you got enough moneys) 

I don’t D: But I could grind enough while leveling my ships.

In the eyes of the pilot, if you can’t 1-shot anything, it’s not balanced and needs a buff… The Singularity Cannon, however is WAY off the marks. My Guard… That’s right, a Guard with 200 EM Shield resist. STILL takes 10k crits. My Kris-AE, with roughly 80EM resists, STILL takes 5k crits to the face. I mean, seriously. Not OP’d enough, yet? A xxxx Ceptor gets annihilated by a bubble gun. The devs claim it to be an AoE weapon. Then why doesn’t it act like one? Damage according to ship size too hard or something? End_Damage/Ship_Size too hard of an equation?

 

That’s the point. Ceptors should be the ones killing Frigates. However, that’s not true because Ceptors can’t deal enough damage to them without dying. Fighters, on the other hand, can wipe everything off the face of the galaxy if they all fit bubble guns and Ion Emitters. And Frigballing is still op’d because of the beautiful synergy between Engies and Guards. Balance!

 

 

Completly agree.

 

But i mean… in this game Tanks deal more damage than Glass “Cannons” … well we should call them Glass, period.

 

If they were looking for an mmo style balance they fail (in mmo glass cannons have high mobility and high damage… tanks low damage).

If they were looking for a shooter style they fail (or better… they fail when they introduced the class specifi weapons system).

 

 

So what do u aspect now about balance?

Here ya go, Antibus, make sure the devs see their matchmaking system at work, it’s a bomb!

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23373641/2013.10.01%2019.10.12.rar

Leveling R1 to R7 with license is a matter of hours for a single ship branch (granted you need enough money to buy the next ship as soon as it unlocked, but if you are coming back from T3+ back to level new branch you got enough moneys) 

I had to stay there for quite a longer while for several ships, not a matter of hours unfortunately. Completely destroyed the poor newbies making their way in the game. Constant 15-25 kill streaks without even pushing it. Imagine the rage and hate.

It’s no secret that all the current progression mechanics stacked on top of each other is TOO DAMN MUCH.

 

Like i suggested a while ago: the higher a tier / rank a player is, the faster the progression, no matter the goddamned ship. But meh…

Most probably some of those pilots are using military\experimental weapons, are in squad and have won a couple of matches before. As they were considered to be more powerful by the system (for the que they were in), they were moved into the next que - so that they wouldn’t topple the newbies in that que.

Pure T1 pilots couldn’t get into higher que - they stay in the first one. More likely is that they put a T2 in their line up.

 

Just to clear up some things…

 

In T1 and T2 PVP, a sniper can farm kills, even a xxx like me on a iron harpy could do 15 kills easily on a capture the beacons.

 

On T3 the ships are so resistant, that interceptors take 3 hits to kill sometimes (of course a poorly equiped one will die with one shot or 2) But please, do you think it is easy to hit a T3 int with a sniper at 8000m?

 

And yes, the MM is totally mental. Well, it all starts with that crazy DSR rating, that was put on the game to make ppl ignore objectives and go only for kills, this is starting to look like wow a few years ago, all that was good was based on achivements or gearscore… And if the MM is using that at least do it properly, and put a balanced team regarding the MM.

 

And make it IMPOSSIBLE for someone with 1 T3 and 2 newbie ships to join a T3 match, basically, make it as it is in PVE, u need all ships to be T3 to go into T3 pvp. And no Tier mixing for heaven’s sake… It is completelly unfair. Imagine a Tormentor maxed out full-o-purples on a T3 or worst in a T2 battle… He would stomp the team all by himself…


 

And yes, inties are overpowered. I noticed yesterday an interesting fact. Was queueing for T2 to level up my harpy, getting easy kills and so forth there were an variety on kinds of ships, some tacklers, gunships, commands, inties, guard, other frigs. So, we queued on T3 and what is that we see? Dozens of inties, some of them, like some good pilots from NASA were nearly unkillable… Really, 5 ppl shooting at one and he didnt die. My brother hitted a inti with his cerberus (with mark 3 wep all CDs up) and barelly took the shield down an imperial int. AND AGAIN I SAY Thats a “Bullet” bigger than an interceptor.

 

Guards at T3 are a joke, u need about 15 sniper shots just to end the shield of one, is that a problem? No, but they kick xxxx with awesome DPS capabilities too, 2 guards moving from beacon to beacon in beacon hunt is enought to maintain the beacon at ones control.

 

Inties in T3 are immortal fast flying death deliverers. The only ones that die fast are the Aces that stays orbiting a beacon waiting for a torpedo to kill them.

Just to clear up some things…

In T1 and T2 PVP, a sniper can farm kills, even a Ace like me on a iron harpy could do 15 kills easily on a capture the beacons.

 

On T3 the ships are so resistant, that interceptors take 3 hits to kill sometimes (of course a poorly equiped one will die with one shot or 2) But please, do you think it is easy to hit a T3 int with a sniper at 8000m?

 


 

And yes, inties are overpowered. I noticed yesterday an interesting fact. Was queueing for T2 to level up my harpy, getting easy kills and so forth there were an variety on kinds of ships, some tacklers, gunships, commands, inties, guard, other frigs. So, we queued on T3 and what is that we see? Dozens of inties, some of them, like some good pilots from NASA were nearly unkillable… Really, 5 ppl shooting at one and he didnt die. My brother hitted a inti with his cerberus (with mark 3 wep all CDs up) and barelly took the shield down an imperial int. AND AGAIN I SAY Thats a “Bullet” bigger than an interceptor.

 

Guards at T3 are a joke, u need about 15 sniper shots just to end the shield of one, is that a problem? No, but they kick xxxx with awesome DPS capabilities too, 2 guards moving from beacon to beacon in beacon hunt is enought to maintain the beacon at ones control.

 

Inties in T3 are immortal fast flying death deliverers. The only ones that die fast are the Aces that stays orbiting a beacon waiting for a torpedo to kill them.

Yes, yes! Add to this Fighters that kill everything in 1-2 shots!

Lets Recap:

OP Intys

OP Fighters

OP Frigates

Aaaanddd I’ve lost you…

I was just saying earlier about the 4 man squads:

 

Because T4 is broken with bad players getting into your team, ruining your game, this is why this happens:

 

 

Fix the matchmaking, don’t let Aces enter high tiered games and your OP squads will stay where they belong. I have no reason to stay in T3, actually not much to stay in T4 as well, if T5 wouldn’t be what it is.

At least your squad helps you to avoid bots.  If a new player speed ranks a ship, so be it.  It’s their game too, not just yours.

 

I still don’t see why not just ban T2 and lower ships from higher tiers. There is not a single reason anyone would want to do that out of their sane mind.

Because taking T2 ships into T3 gets more synergy for the kills because they’re higher tiered ships, and PvE gets boring after a while.  I like T3 over T2 because teams are more likely to know strategy.  I did discover the other day that having multiple Empire LRF’s is very good for the cargo ship PvE.  There’s also just the joy of getting Slayer of Immortal medals.

 

The problem with this in lower Tiers is that they’ll face the next Tier of ships which still have much more advanced and powerful gear. They stand no chance, even if it’s your average pilot, as I’ve seen it happen multiple times. And why should those higher Tier ships with Mk 1 gear be in lower Tiers, anyway? Because they’d be curbstomped in their own Tier? “Oh, you can’t be here, you’d die too easily. Here, take this cushion and have a few low Tiered pilots to kill.” This is basically what the system is telling us. You can’t fight here, so we’ll put you down the queue so you can kill better. You’re rewarding losses. It’s also shown in the reward screen after the game. You get high rewards for losing a game, even if you did badly. The Synergy and Credits I get for losing a 12min match is still higher than if I won a similar match, with similar points in the same amount of time. We’re not supposed to see R6 ships in T1 matches, we’re not supposed to see R7 ships in T4 matches, but it still happens ALL. THE. TIME. And you still say the system “works as intended”?..

 

Wait, what? Synergy? So, because I have some spare Synergy, the game forces me UP?

Leveling up on ship and trying to use it a few times shouldn’t be an automatic jump.  Look at Jericho’s command line.  From R9 to R12, ready to face T5, right?  It should be “gentle” progression for people actually progressing.  Anyway, if you fly in a squad regularly, often have some of the highest efficiency of the team in every match, doesn’t that mean MM gave you too easy of a game to play time and time again?  Of all the talk about easy win buttons, MM is trying to stop that and there are more complaints!

 

R6s are a rare sight for me in T1, because I rarely go down there. However… The R10s I see them ALL THE TIME in T3s. Even R11s. Hell, twice since 0.9, so far, I’ve seen R12s. And I’m not even joking. I wish I were. I mean, is it even possible for these ships to drop so far down, even if they only had Mk 1 gear?

The R9 to R10 difference is small compared to R3 and R6.  I wonder if I can play my Lance S without facing a 1v1 T5.  It jumped three levels so it could maybe face T5 ships.

 

I think this is a problem thats homemade with the rank 15 Implant. actually I see quite a lot T1s T2s and T3s in T4/5 matches. 

The thing is: Those Ppl grind one Line of ships in one Faction to get the synergy/Income bonuses from the R15 Implants. 

That means i.e.  they have one T4 Command (which defines their queue in MM) and fill up the rest of their slots with lower tier ships. 

Heck, Ive seen a Dagger in T4, that guy had one T4 and after that ship exploded in realistic he switched to a Dagger. Oneshottet that ship with a bubble i didnt even aim precisely… impact on the match: None.  

 

I think, if you put the rank 15 bonuses to Rank 9 we wouldnt have that much trouble with UP ships in T4/5

 

Its also really terrible to see how many non experienced players enter t4/5 its pure luck if you get some decent players on your side. I really think of lowering my DSR to 1100 to not getting matched with aces.

I can help, I have a Lance S that I would like to rank up to R15 for the implant.

 

Sadly, but Luckyo is right, at least at points #1 and #3.

If you dont care about DSR experienced players can always go smurfing in lower tiers. Just think about a 3-man-Jerry-LRF trollsquad. 

 

Wtf, Ales, that looks EXACTLY like my screenshot 3 patches ago (was flying swift eagle tho). 

Compare:

 

  BO6AQGu.jpg

 

Conclusion: Frigballz are still way to viable and they creep in, now that aiming is back to normal.

Balance issues?

Start killing them with assault rails, and doing it visibly?  People where shown that plasma and rails sucked with targetting.  Now they need shown that rails can dissolve a guard.in the right situation.

 

Issue is, bubblegun doesn’t counter frigates as well as it should, but it massively counters interceptors, something it shouldn’t do. So it has to be nerfed to be less powerful against interceptors but far more powerful against frigates.

 

Then there’s the fact that frigate health was buffed a lot recently, which made frigates stronger against all other classes. And of course autoaim that ensures that hitting a frigate is only slightly easier than hitting a fighter, which in turn is only slightly easier than hitting an interceptor. Yet interceptors have but a tiny fraction of frigate’s effective health. Removal of autoaim compensated for this difference making interceptors actually appropriately hard to hit when going at high speed and maneuvering, and bringing it back neutered them to uselessness again.

Remove the AoE of it!  Why does the highest damage weapon in the game have the largest projectile?  If you can’t hit a giant frigate before a lock on, you shouldn’t be using the “frigate killer.”  If the projectile size was like a laser it wouldn’t even hit the interceptors most of the time.  And stop making them go through everything!

Completly agree.

 

But i mean… in this game Tanks deal more damage than Glass “Cannons” … well we should call them Glass, period.

 

If they were looking for an mmo style balance they fail (in mmo glass cannons have high mobility and high damage… tanks low damage).

If they were looking for a shooter style they fail (or better… they fail when they introduced the class specifi weapons system).

 

 

So what do u aspect now about balance?

 

Also ales, by glass cannon the one that is it should be easily killed (hence glass cannon) high dammage low life, but we see plenty examples of things that are not anything, neither a glass cannon, nor a tank petting machine.

Yes, yes! Add to this Fighters that kill everything in 1-2 shots!

Lets Recap:

OP Intys

OP Fighters

OP Frigates

Aaaanddd I’ve lost you…

 

What is OP is the combinations that can be used to transform something into something too big. Like frigballs, a good timed fighter shooting big  blue singularities and lots of inties getting caught in the aoe.

 

I agree with you regarding to fighters when they come with sing cannon. Even with a guard with phase shield on EM and some resist to EM dammage is crushed in seconds.

 

But think about this:

 

A team Full of interceptors.

A team full of Frigates.

A team full of fighters.

 

I bet the interceptor ones would beat 9 out of 10 times any other team. (same skilled pilots). Why? cause they can be in one place, and then change to another place a minute before anyone else. They cause high dammage, and even if you have a little high latency u can kick xxxx. But fighters with sing that kill a lot is only possible with low latency.

Because taking T2 ships into T3 gets more synergy for the kills because they’re higher tiered ships, and PvE gets boring after a while.  I like T3 over T2 because teams are more likely to know strategy.  I did discover the other day that having multiple Empire LRF’s is very good for the cargo ship PvE.  There’s also just the joy of getting Slayer of Immortal medals.

 

This is very-very missleading:

You get more Synergy per kill, but your ship has a synergy cap per game and this cap is not affected by the tier you fly in, on top of that you have less chances to kill in those games because you in wrong place, and you have much higher chance of being killed and spend more overall time in a respawn not gaining any synergy and not contributing to your team and you get less synergy if you lose the game, and by flying low tier ships in not intended higher tiers you dragging the whole team down and shooting yourself in a leg slowing down your synergy progression and money gains.

A team Full of interceptors.

A team full of Frigates.

A team full of fighters.

 

I bet the interceptor ones would beat 9 out of 10 times any other team. (same skilled pilots). Why? cause they can be in one place, and then change to another place a minute before anyone else. They cause high dammage, and even if you have a little high latency u can kick xxxx. But fighters with sing that kill a lot is only possible with low latency.

A) in these 3 cases it will be heavily dependant on a map mode

B) a team with balanced setup will win vs all of these 3 most of the times.

In a way, I find it quite ironic how the hypocritical frigateers are out in force to whine about “omg big crits” of singularity cannon that can’t even take out a paper-LFR before it overheats and requires at least 3 full overheats against a smart guard, but vigorously defend the EM torpedo that effectively one shots interceptors that don’t have EB (and will finish off that inty with autoaimed shot in a second anyway).

 

You fellas should go into politics. As hypocritical as most modern politicians are, you could give them the run for their money.

 

 

 

I had to recently level LFR from R7 up. I have not seen a single interceptor that could take my LFR on and survive. In fact, I haven’t seen all that many inty pairs that could do it. It usually took three or more of those “oh noes my R7 ship suxxor, their R9 rapes me” R9 inties to handle my R7 LFR.

About the only deaths I had came from either me deciding that I want to kill the target rather than survive when I saw the lock on icon light up, or when I ran out of EM torpedoes and got attacked by several people at once. That and attrition deaths due to lack of heals and non-stop zerg attacks where you just run out of health eventually.

 

Why? Because I know how to play. Skill is OP as hell in this game in lower tiers. Because there are so few players that have it, that they tend to just steer clear of each other and farm the easy targets instead. That’s what most decent ints did after seeing my DSR, getting a huge hard-on, zerging me for two-three deaths, deflating, deciding that viagra isn’t going to help and go to find someone who won’t reduce their DSR.

 

 

My problem however is that skill becomes massively underpowered in higher tiers where auto aim god mode guards can do whatever the hell they want. Unless they completely fail, they will likely win just by nature of being overpowered to hell guard frigates.

 

 

Frankly, if we had that “you have one life” tourney right now, most of the teams would be bringing one recon, maybe one gunship and rest would be frigates. Recon would come for bots, gunships to chase down stragglers and frigates to do the actual fighting.

Here ya go, Antibus, make sure the devs see their matchmaking system at work, it’s a bomb!

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23373641/2013.10.01%2019.10.12.rar

Description, screenshots?

Because taking T2 ships into T3 gets more synergy for the kills because they’re higher tiered ships, and PvE gets boring after a while.  I like T3 over T2 because teams are more likely to know strategy.  I did discover the other day that having multiple Empire LRF’s is very good for the cargo ship PvE.  There’s also just the joy of getting Slayer of Immortal medals.

 

 

Nope, does not make sense. You get lower reward bonus on lower ranked ships, so it evens out. As an example, you can get about 50k+ sinergy in a t5 game with daily bonus. You will not get that much sinergy on a T2 ship, no matter what you kill. It still does not make any sense to take weaker ships into higher ranked games.