No offense, but shooters by their nature require low latency. We have no magical way to predict future and deliver it to your machine 0.2 seconds ahead of it actually happening. And human mind is rarely adaptable enough not to notice and face significant discomfort from such a large lag between action and response in a game type that lives and dies by speed of response.
What’s kind of funny is that the type of prediction that shooters have had incorporated into them for the last decade is designed to do exactly that. It literally attempts to predict the future, based upon the present situation. When you see a shot “bending” to hit you in any game it is because the client of the person shooting was given information that put your location in a different place than you actually went(visually, the prediction failed for one person, in most cases not both).
The reason these register as hits is because the server prediction subroutine agrees with the clients that this was the information the players where given. With it, games are more than playable with 150, even 250 ping. Without it, you get 30 page rants on forums with goofs suggesting you move to a different apartment specifically chosen for its proximity to internet hubs. Two days until it’s a moot point, which will be good—it’s disappointing to see 650 people online(there are truly terrible games with thousands of players, it baffles me to see this on what is otherwise a pretty decent product), on a game available free through Steam(probably the most accessible and recognizable F2P hub in the country, maybe world) during US prime time because it’s nearly unplayable at a ping that works on virtually any other game currently played.
What’s kind of funny is that the type of prediction that shooters have had incorporated into them for the last decade is designed to do exactly that. It literally attempts to predict the future, based upon the present situation. When you see a shot “bending” to hit you in any game it is because the client of the person shooting was given information that put your location in a different place than you actually went(visually, the prediction failed for one person, in most cases not both).
The reason these register as hits is because the server prediction subroutine agrees with the clients that this was the information the players where given. With it, games are more than playable with 150, even 250 ping. Without it, you get 30 page rants on forums with goofs suggesting you move to a different apartment specifically chosen for its proximity to internet hubs. Two days until it’s a moot point, which will be good—it’s disappointing to see 650 people online(there are truly terrible games with thousands of players, it baffles me to see this on what is otherwise a pretty decent product), on a game available free through Steam(probably the most accessible and recognizable F2P hub in the country, maybe world) during US prime time because it’s nearly unplayable at a ping that works on virtually any other game currently played.
TL;DR Lag compensation mechanics shall not give huge unfair advantages to people with no lag.
Yes, but when the player has no lag (and there are plenty of those) they get huge advantage in a sense that the area where they can shoot in order to hit the target will be tremendously bigger than those that have lag. Basically that mechanics was compensating for people with lag and make the comfortable to play but in the same time as soon as you don’t have that lag you are getting compensated for lack of your own aim.
And this is exactly why i don’t understand the whole whining in this thread
Luckyo/Alek/Myself we are defending a mechanic from a low ping standpoint, we are against a help to players that have low ping and gaining unfair advantage in aim compensation, and we absolutely agree that leading marker itself is NOT working and the whole thing is not perfect, but fix it differently. While other complain that Lag is not compensated and instead of different type of compensation that would not affect low ping performance, just cry for an old system back. These are 2 different topics.
I have wireless internet CDMA with speed up to 3 mbps, with ping around 100ms. Speed is not a factor, just quality of connection and I can play with this internet pretty well. But I really rage when MM matches me into some hamster powered server and after 5 minutes of steady play of 100-120 ping it suddenly goes to 700-1000 for no reason.
I’ve missed a lot for being gone all of one day…
Totally lost track of why people can’t seem to use the gauss cannons, but I’ll say this: at ~160 ping, I was able to hit a moving, cloaked interceptor 6000m away dead on to decloak him on first shot. I don’t know the argument, but the weapon itself still works under normal conditions [normal for me being 160 ping]. However, he was cloaked, which meant I had no predictive markers throwing me off.
So… aiming still works. But really, why does everyone have trouble with those weapons? The thing is practically as accurate as a laser.
Do I even know you? I played dozens of games in last couple of days testing various things. Grats if you didn’t get to be on receiving side. If you have the balls, assemble your squad and meet me in custom so we can see what you’re actually made of.
You may also notice that most people I play with don’t visit the forums. Those that do in fact do agree with me. You’ll also note that “I’ll attack the messenger as I have no means of attacking the message” styled trolls such as yourself tend to attack these people, and not everyone is as thick-skinned towards people like that. So they just leave the forums and continue playing. Because the game is fun right now.
And in the end, FPS are defined by their low tolerance for high latency. This has been reality of these games for decades now. It has not changed. If you do not understand this, you in fact are a child, throwing a temper tantrum on the forums because you have lag and apparently everyone else should suffer for it.
Are u seriously butt hurt that bad? lol want a kleneex? if you want a custom match sure but if you cry like this after i might laugh myself to death( not laughing with you but at you) lol " just me and you, dont want others to compensate for your poor skill" and your arguement on calling me a troll is void, you cant be a troll if responding to someone who directed a comment at you (there for answering your response)… and who threw a temper tantrum? are you psychic, use telepathy, sitting beside me? so something you read means the only way it was suppose to be taken? why are people so stuck on themselfs? lol “i believe this! so it must mean this!” <— lol not to be rude but you should seriously take a job in politics. all they like to do is argue and bicker. :good:
Luckyo is just pissed because he’s sick of playing casuals who try to play Star Conflict wherever they have internet, as opposed to “hardcore” players who buy houses in Russia and link up to the official server via direct fiber-optic line.
I have wireless internet CDMA with speed up to 3 mbps, with ping around 100ms. Speed is not a factor, just quality of connection and I can play with this internet pretty well. But I really rage when MM matches me into some hamster powered server and after 5 minutes of steady play of 100-120 ping it suddenly goes to 700-1000 for no reason.
> Wireless
> 3Mbps
Pick one. And only one.
Luckyo is just pissed because he’s sick of playing casuals who try to play Star Conflict wherever they have internet, as opposed to “hardcore” players who buy houses in Russia and link up to the official server via direct fiber-optic line.
Who isn’t? I mean, all the hardcore gamers have some manner of magical internet connection that just allows them to play flawlessly. Everyone else is just jelly. And so am I cause, despite very rarely facing lag (EvE Sovereignty warfare, WoW AV matches), I do have a very good connection.
3mbps is max in the night. About 400 kb/s download.
Ah. I thought you meant upload speed. Dunno why my brain went that way. Even so, don’t play with wireless, the packet loss is hilariously high in any game.
Ah. I thought you meant upload speed. Dunno why my brain went that way. Even so, don’t play with wireless, the packet loss is hilariously high in any game.
If I would be able to have cable/fiber I would have it…
in fact, i don’t even understand… my in-game ping to the RU server is 160 right now in a bot game…
but here’s a ICMP ping (250-300), like i said before, it’s being misreported in-game.
Pinging 91.230.61.172 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=287ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=276ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=288ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=279ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=284ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=284ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=283ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=275ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=278ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=276ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=295ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=284ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=286ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=281ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=281ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=284ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=291ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=290ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=284ms TTL=109
Reply from 91.230.61.172: bytes=32 time=287ms TTL=109
Ping statistics for 91.230.61.172:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 20, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 275ms, Maximum = 295ms, Average = 283ms
wow, there’s some load balancing going on too…
Reply from 213.198.77.214: bytes=32 time=149ms TTL=48
Reply from 213.198.77.214: bytes=32 time=135ms TTL=52
Reply from 213.198.77.214: bytes=32 time=142ms TTL=52
Reply from 213.198.77.214: bytes=32 time=171ms TTL=48
anyways, the congestion appear to be at the final hop, probably just throttling icmp, but not sure. both icmp 8 and 11.
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms [ip omitted]
2 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms [ip omitted]
3 17 ms 16 ms 17 ms bas1-toronto27_lo0_symp.net.bell.ca [64.230.200.58]
4 17 ms 17 ms 17 ms agg1-toronto12_9-2-0_100.net.bell.ca [64.230.57.58]
5 29 ms 29 ms 29 ms bx5-chicagodt_xe6-0-0.net.bell.ca [64.230.186.86]
6 30 ms 29 ms 30 ms verio-peering.net.bell.ca [64.230.186.218]
7 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms ae-7.r20.chcgil09.us.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.4.15]
8 41 ms * 43 ms ae-4.r23.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.2.4]
9 142 ms 138 ms 141 ms ae-6.r21.frnkge03.de.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.3.11]
10 140 ms 132 ms 132 ms ae-1.r02.frnkge03.de.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.4.13]
11 152 ms 148 ms 146 ms 213.198.77.214
12 203 ms 212 ms 203 ms ae5-6.rt.km.spb.ru.retn.net [87.245.233.133]
13 191 ms 170 ms 170 ms gw-pirix.retn.net [87.245.252.30]
14 292 ms 284 ms 284 ms 91.230.61.172
and here’s the cisco packet log (the RU server IP):
permitted udp ip omitted → 91.230.61.172(0), 339 packets
in any case, it’s either bad reporting in-game, or icmp is being throttled, proving that ping isn’t always everything.
ICMP probably isn’t being throttled, generally that would mean dropping packets. It could be a buffer bloat problem. All it takes is a couple NICs not tuned to be compatible. Instead of optimizing their network for latency, they’ve optimized for throughput. Microwave based internet can be very low latency when in range, but the speed’s slow. The throughput requirements of the game are not that high. One thing that might help illustrate some of the issues is if two people record the same custom battle and compare latency for eachother.
Totally lost track of why people can’t seem to use the gauss cannons, but I’ll say this: at ~160 ping, I was able to hit a moving, cloaked interceptor 6000m away dead on to decloak him on first shot. I don’t know the argument, but the weapon itself still works under normal conditions [normal for me being 160 ping]. However, he was cloaked, which meant I had no predictive markers throwing me off.
So… aiming still works. But really, why does everyone have trouble with those weapons? The thing is practically as accurate as a laser.
Lag in this game seems to be a function of relative latencies (yours plus your opponent’s) in addition to server load and simply luck. I can show you examples stop motion lag during a stable ping of 18 ms and no packet loss.
to me it seems more like the server infrastructure needs horizontal upgrades, and lag “happens” to all players and ping times go up, probably because of changes in the complexity or dynamics (cpu usage or system usage etc. of single instances, etc.) on the server nodes. It seemed like 0.8 could exactly run with our population back then, while things started going south some months ago.
I say this, because I have almost no lag most of the time, but if I experience it, I notice, that most of the people around me have it too, players disconnect and reconnect to games etc. and it’s not always the server locations.
it could be also a combination of multiple things. examples are like sudden packet loss because of usage of tcp and udp in the same application come into mind, which sometimes can be a problem, etc.
all assumptions about “bad netcode”, missing lag compensation (the thing cormack invented for quake was btw. in the core of unreal 1 netcode, that discussion was also pointless, nearly every game has that today, it was just the beginning back then) and ping are nice, but that would mean it would constantly be the same for people, and patches would not change anything. There are simply myriads of explanations, and it could be multiple factors playing into it, and I think the devs have heard us. I hope.
So, in the end we could be right, but it could still be, that it’s not the single root of the problem, and without seeing exactly what happens, we cannot really make all the assumptions correctly, no matter how smart we are.
and your arguement on calling me a troll is void, you cant be a troll if responding to someone who directed a comment at you (there for answering your response)… and who threw a temper tantrum? are you psychic, use telepathy, sitting beside me? so something you read means the only way it was suppose to be taken? why are people so stuck on themselfs? lol “i believe this! so it must mean this!” <— lol not to be rude but you should seriously take a job in politics. all they like to do is argue and bicker. :good: