Star Conflict OBT v.0.9.2 Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
181

Will you guys ever stop arguing that gear thing? Here, I’ll summarize it for you: Team play > individual skill > gear

 

wrong. teamplay+skill+gear > teamplay+skill

 

this problem has now been solved. you can move on to other more pressing issues.

 

One simple counter to ECM is shoot them in the face and destroy them - Works for me most times

 

yup, when you’re disabled. works every time.

 

this. of course skill is relative to or impacted by the time of day, the hardware used, the internet connection, health, mood, and other various personal conditions, so it’s not a constant factor. the only constant factor is gear, and it has the least impact.

 

that. those? these? thesis? ← try using the last one. once again, factoring issues that have nothing to do with gear… we already went over this 5 times.

 

gear’s meaningless without a decent team working together

 

and… wrong again. please try again next time.

 

btw… WPK? stomping T3 in full experimental+premium fits yesterday…

 

just for the record: snib, kipps, eviltactician, xkostyan, luckyo =

 

established players who own 50-100+ experimentals. hence conflict of interest… they have an agenda to maintain their advantage over everyone else.

 

simply put: there is no way to explain people who are voting to maintain an UNEVEN playing field… the only explanation is a bias or agenda on their part.

 

The biggest problem is the fact that people attribute their failures to anything else - gear, corps, squads, sun spots.

 

Which is the reality for mental process of most players. Blame everything but your own mistakes.

 

should i consider this a personal insult? or just a general one directed at ‘new players’?

 

furthermore, i’m advocating this on behalf of all players, not myself, and definitely not the select few at the very top of the gear chain.

 

you seem to have this habit of hating on other players. instead of speaking to issues concerning the game itself.

 

you forgot DPI on their mouse is higher, better headphones, latest GFX card, lower ping, higher FPS, hotter girlfriend, tighter jeans.

 

indeed… since when did we forget to enter those into our equation?

182

wrong. teamplay+skill+gear > teamplay+skill

 

this problem has now been solved. you can move on to other more pressing issues.

 

 

yup, when you’re disabled. works every time.

 

 

that. those? these? thesis? ← try using the last one. once again, factoring issues that have nothing to do with gear… we already went over this 5 times.

 

 

and… wrong again. please try again next time.

 

btw… WPK? stomping T3 in full experimental+premium fits yesterday…

 

just for the record: snib, kipps, eviltactician, xkostyan, luckyo =

 

established players who own 50-100+ experimentals. hence conflict of interest… they have an agenda to maintain their advantage over everyone else.

 

simply put: there is no way to explain people who are voting to maintain an UNEVEN playing field… the only explanation is a bias or agenda on their part.

 

 

should i consider this a personal insult? or just a general one directed at ‘new players’?

 

furthermore, i’m advocating this on behalf of all players, not myself, and definitely not the select few at the very top of the gear chain.

 

you seem to have this habit of hating on other players. instead of speaking to issues concerning the game itself.

Talking out of your xxxx again, I fly with Luckyo in T5, we don’t even have more than 5 green items between the both of us, and still win games vs squads with blues and purples. 

183

Talking out of your xxxx again, I fly with Luckyo in T5, we don’t even have more than 5 green items between the both of us, and still win games vs squads with blues and purples. 

 

you’re talking about T5… we’re talking about T2,3 and 4… people don’t have T4 many experimentals at this point.

 

in any case, your PERSONAL experience means nothing. math and statistics mean everything.

 

and if you take 2 even teams with a gear imbalance, the stats over time will skew towards the team with better gear.

 

MztjV6m.gif

how many time must we kill this horse? poor beast.

184

you’re talking about T5… we’re talking about T2,3 and 4… people don’t have T4 many experimentals at this point.

 

in any case, your PERSONAL experience means nothing. math and statistics mean everything.

 

and if you take 2 even teams with a gear imbalance, the stats over time will skew towards the team with better gear.

 

MztjV6m.gif

how many time must we kill this horse? poor beast.

If you’re talking “over time” then over time both teams will progress to better gear. 

185

Talking out of your xxxx again, I fly with Luckyo in T5, we don’t even have more than 5 green items between the both of us, and still win games vs squads with blues and purples. 

 

Last time he claimed that I was farming my own alts in customs, now I’m suddenly swamped in purple. He’s so very obviously trolling, I really don’t get why you guys keep feeding him. But props to him, he keeps it going brilliantly.

186

If you’re talking “over time” then over time both teams will progress to better gear. 

 

problem: some people already have gear from playing for 6 months. in 1 year itll be even worse.

 

all new players will be up against experimentals…

 

plus, i don’t know about you, but i don’t have a years to stand a 50% chance of getting a specific mod i want.

 

you need to understand probability math… which honestly… isn’t very difficult. (grade 11/12)

 

Last time he claimed that I was farming my own alts in customs, now I’m suddenly swamped in purple.

 

you did farm T2 though for 1200 games aren’t i correct? so you should have purples out of that. still considerable less than some people with 40+, but my guess is around 20-25 purples…

 

again, it’s all relative to how much time you KILL playing this game. the more addicted you become, the more of your life you throw away, the more powerful you will become… amazing isn’t it?

 

except it sort of has the opposite effect on your actual/real life.

 

in fact, looting is nothing more than a 1-arm bandit. it’s legalized gambling for kids. which is currently being looked into by the DOJ.

 

these payment/grinding models addict small children, and get them hooked by providing a rush of hormones. gaming is one thing, gambling is another.

 

aka - casinos for kids.

187

problem: some people already have gear from playing for 6 months. in 1 year itll be even worse.

 

all new players will be up against experimentals…

 

plus, i don’t know about you, but i don’t have a years to stand a 50% chance of getting a specific mod i want.

 

you need to understand probability math… which honestly… isn’t very difficult. (grade 11/12)

 

That’s precisely my problem with your math, you’re over simplifying an very complex game to make your point. You throw many variables out the window and reduce everything to gear advantages. This game is not played in a vacuum, there are too many variables to compute in order to definitely say how much of an impact +5% gear has. Including pilot skill, which is nigh impossible to compute, given how human beings have off days, natural skill and luck.

188

That’s precisely my problem with your math, you’re over simplifying an very complex game to make your point. You throw many variables out the window and reduce everything to gear advantages. This game is not played in a vacuum, there are too many variables to compute in order to definitely say how much of an impact +5% gear has. Including pilot skill, which is nigh impossible to compute, given how human beings have off days, natural skill and luck.

 

it’s the scientific method:

 

let S1 = skill one, S2 = skill two, L1 = luck one, L2 = luck two, T1 = teamplay one, T2 = teamplay two, G1 = gear one, G2 = gear two.

 

for x = ( S1 * L1 * T1 * G1 ) / ( S2 * L2 * T2 * G2 )

 

if S1 = S2, L1 = L2, T1 = T2

 

then  x = G1 / G2

 

hence the ratio/percentage of the gear’s performance.

 

inb4; it’s not always equal, but as an average it is, since if both teams are equally skilled then the only remaining factor is gear.

 

in other words, probability is the only remaining factor. and those probabilities will be equal for you and your opponents (but only if G1 = G2).

 

seriously… pretending like math doesn’t matter is like saying: please, don’t use logic here…

 

Statistic has less impact on individual case, but it applies on long period of observation of various cases. You have thousand of matches happen everyday, 5-7% advantages is relevant, and it will decide the outcome of many matches.

189

Beeing an ECM-Pilot most of the time, I really feel the difference. 

Pre 9.2 I was able to make about 6-10 Kills per battle. Now it dropped to average 3. Therefor it rains assists… 

Its not the case that i need to rely on Stasis for aiming (imo it was always focus fire  that made it “OP”)

So, ECM became in terms of offensive power the weakest of all interceptors. 

If I want to rack up kills nowadays I take a recon (but dont tell the devs otherwise they might nerf it  :taunt:  )

 

I think the Tackler needs a buff. Mainly due to the new weapons which are not really supporting a LR-Tackler gameplay. 

190

it’s the scientific method:

 

let S1 = skill one, S2 = skill two, L1 = luck one, L2 = luck two, T1 = teamplay one, T2 = teamplay two, G1 = gear one, G2 = gear two.

 

for x = ( S1 * L1 * T1 * G1 ) / ( S2 * L2 * T2 * G2 )

 

if S1 = S2, L1 = L2, T1 = T2

 

then  x = G1 / G2

 

hence the ratio/percentage of the gear’s performance.

 

inb4; it’s not always equal, but as an average it is, since if both teams are equally skilled then the only remaining factor is gear.

 

in other words, probability is the only remaining factor. and those probabilities will be equal for you and your opponents (but only if G1 = G2).

 

seriously… pretending like math doesn’t matter is like saying: please, don’t use logic here…

It matters, but it’s not the only thing. How do you measure skill? Luck? Strategy? Experience? Sure if you have all the values and they’re not variable of course you can use algebra. The problem is that some things are not quantifiable. Pretending you can accurately measure skill and teamwork to the point that it becomes equal in two sides is naive and idealistic beyond belief. 

 

Also, saying that “oh I don’t have time to play as much as the veterans therefore they shouldn’t have an advantage” is narcissistic. We all started sucking, it’s insulting to everyone who has experience and skill (not gear, as I have said, i grinded out T4 and T5 starting 0.9 from basically nothing) that the game should be dumbed down because “newbies are having a tough time”. Saying “you won because you have better gear” is telling me “oh, you suck but only beat me becuase of a marginal % of stats.” 

191

it’s the scientific method:

 

The scientific method? You mean “postulating a theory” - “gather evidence” - “re-work your theory” ?

 

It is okay, and for me also informative, that you express your theories in formulas, but to prove them right, you would have to gather data, and see if your theories are correct, otherwise its just the warm-up of a scientific method.

 

Why is team-play a factor or skill and experience something you would dismiss first hand? Is the evidence of teams winning games with worse equipment not clear enough? Of course that power scales up with their equipment quality. It’s like saying all that matters in soccer are the sizes of air-pumps in the athletes shoes. Some people however even beat you barefoot.

 

Just because gear is the least important thing, does not mean, it’s not important in a hypothetical formula, it is as lowest factor basicly the scaling factor - but if it does not scale anything, it is useless which color your equipment has, as is extended shields on an empire frigate!

 

I have played those ships over and over which I play, collecting the gear for it. Fit changes alone have a much greater impact on performance, than color change, not to speak of experience and team cohesion. Gathering the items slowly - a bit too slowly - actually helps very much in reviewing performance of these things, on a personal level.

192

It matters, but it’s not the only thing. How do you measure skill? Luck? Strategy? Experience? Sure if you have all the values and they’re not variable of course you can use algebra. The problem is that some things are not quantifiable. Pretending you can accurately measure skill and teamwork to the point that it becomes equal in two sides is naive and idealistic beyond belief. 

 

variability? i just explained it to you… it’s called probability… it’s not a ‘random’ thing…

 

it simply states that there are situations where you will have the upper hand in terms of luck, skill, teamplay, and other times where the enemy will. (this is exactly what you are saying)

 

and as long as the enemy is as skilled as you are, those differences will average themselves out when taking the entire player base and all games played into account.

 

the only difference which cannot be averaged out is gear.

 

Why is team-play a factor or skill and experience something you would dismiss first hand?

 

Is the evidence of teams winning games with worse equipment not clear enough?

 

see my comment above. also, there’s plenty of evidence of teams with better gear AND more skill completely stomping everyone. (which is the part you seem to be ignoring completely)

193

I think the Tackler needs a buff.

 

:good:

(I fly tacklers. )

194

I think the Tackler needs a buff. Mainly due to the new weapons which are not really supporting a LR-Tackler gameplay. 

:good:

(I fly tacklers. )

I support this as well. The tackler modules range bonus on some of them  ninja nerfed (that was not mentioned anywhere in the patch notes along with many many other things) is painful. Really hard to keep up with a pitiful R7 tackler in T3…*cough* - ‘ahem’… T4.

195

The game has a ton of issues, and the devs are lacking in their responses so we don’t even know anything of what they think is imbalanced etc. or if they even read nor care for our feedback.

I don’t even bother anymore since I feel like we are being ignored.

 

Though luckyo keeps trolling it seems…(And if he is serious, I fear for how stupid he must be)

196

:good:

(I fly tacklers. )

So do I. Pretty much the only role I can see for them right now is either the painter/slow bot for killing exposed and overextended frigates, or long range sniper machine. Unfortunately former role is done better on gunships, while latter is done better on command ships. So you’re kinda stuck in the middle with no real niche. A weak-ish generalist.

 

You can still do pretty well in a good team. Drone works pretty well in beacon defense, while slowing enemy spearhead guard pusher to a crawl when he’s trying to rush into defilade from your fire next to you can crush the entire push. But overall, you’re far too situational compared to other two options.

197

The game has a ton of issues, and the devs are lacking in their responses so we don’t even know anything of what they think is imbalanced etc. or if they even read nor care for our feedback.

I don’t even bother anymore since I feel like we are being ignored.

 

Though luckyo keeps trolling it seems…(And if he is serious, I fear for how stupid he must be)

Coming from the guy who consistently solo rushes beacons in a guard, uses them as cover from multiple gunships with singularity, melts and proceeds to cry that singularity is OP on regular basis, I’ll take that as a compliment.

 

PBKAC.

 

 

P.S. Most of the feedback is crystal clear - game is far more balanced right now than it was in a very long time. A few outliers who want their imba IDDQD machines back will always whine, but that’s just how life is.

198

So do I. Pretty much the only role I can see for them right now is either the painter/slow bot for killing exposed and overextended frigates, or long range sniper machine. Unfortunately former role is done better on gunships, while latter is done better on command ships. So you’re kinda stuck in the middle with no real niche. A weak-ish generalist.

 

only use i see for tacklers is those with extended range. gives you control on a tackler, if nothing else. modules ranges probably need to be looked at and tweaked, while ship modifiers removed or something. it can prevent a beacon cap, a push, a covert from arcing your frigate/commander, etc.

 

also, is it just me or does anyone else find mass slowing field missile spam ridiculous? entire fights in slow space… takes so much away from the pace of the game…

 

A few outliers who want their imba IDDQD machines back will always whine, but that’s just how life is.

 

that’s pretty much how i see the ECM/gear discussion.

199

lol @ Luckyo and Funky

And yea, tacklers’ former 100% module range bonus + gauss + insane bullet speed actually gave them a meaning on the field. Now you’re in a situation where you have to choose between being sandwiched by enemies* or looking like a troll who only flames the battle from the tribunes (cannon foddering is for other types of players). The other bonuses are… not even worth mentioning.

 

*read as different words and in an appropriate context for advanced mature humor

200

And for the record, singularity nerfs have been so hard, that ESB swapped their killsquad comp to guard+engineer+ecm. World of tanky as hell boredom. Not as bad as 0.8.x, but it’s not too far from that. With their comp, it takes about three full overheats to get through to guard’s hull. During which they will tear you to pieces three times over with insane damage frigates can now output with torpedoes and mix of mortar and positron cannon. Ints can’t even dent that, so the only way to kill them in 3v3 is to go full on gunship and just pray that you’ll be able to kill them before they butcher you. Or mirror up and have another fucked up 0.8.x frig fest.

 

We need the frig killer weapons buffed back up before we eventually degrade back to frig conflict, or frigate damage output nerfed so they can’t kill gunships before gunships can kill them as is currently the case. Not entirely sure how this can be done, but it will have to be done to get ESB off the current imba double frig comp.