Star Conflict OBT v. 0.9.0 Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
1741

My argument? Experienced players know where the beacons are anyways, so the difference will be negligible.

 

The big change will be for new players to more easily get into the game and the mode. The biggest tactical part of the game mode is deciding when to hold current beacon and when to move on to the next. Keeping all beacons visible don’t remove anything from that tactical layer.

 

my sentiments exactly, the tactics don’t change… it’s still ‘hold the beacon’… then ‘hold the next beacon’… all experienced teams and corps will do this regardless…

 

this only allows them to curbstomp randoms and new players…

1742

my sentiments exactly, the tactics don’t change… it’s still ‘hold the beacon’… then ‘hold the next beacon’… all experienced teams and corps will do this regardless…

 

this only allows them to curbstomp randoms and new players…

 

Add a tutorial to prevent the PreNuke/Torp beacon spawn :smiley:

1743

Fact is, game’s concurrent online numbers are staying well above 2.000. People are having fun. A few folks on forums with a huge axe to grind stand out in their loneliness - there are very few of them, and they keep regurgitating the same talking points like your average populist politician.

What time are you playing?  Are you checking around the clock?  Right now it shows me 1579, on a Saturday.  About four hours from now, it’ll be around 1000 because of the weekend bonus.  Weekdays at 9 pm CDT it averages about 800, seriously.  I think Thursday I got three 3v3 matches in a row in T3.

 

People like me are easily distracted? Have you played against me before? DSR merely says that you’re either very good at tactical analysis and flying (solo pilots), have a very good squad to carry you (squad only pilots) or a mix of two of the above. There are a few exceptions that just sit back and snipe, but those are players that are so few, they can be counted with two hands or so.

In general, DSR is a very good indicator of pilot’s flying skill and tactical awareness for vast majority of players. Those that aren’t are usually either a part of a certain corporation and get carried quite a bit, or those few sniping fighters that largely left the game now as that gameplay style became really hard to execute properly.

And btw: capping beacons gives synergy. Lots of it. Mainly because it’s both points AND medals that you get for every cap, and synergy is gained from both.

DSR also shows a focus on killing pilots rather than mission objectives sometimes.  The mere fact it only includes kills vs deaths shows it’s flawed for anything other than a free for all match.  I’ve flown ships tuned for speed and some tuned for tanking.  They serve different purposes.  If I want to kill, a gunship can do it faster than others, but it’s not that good at getting to a beacon by the time my team captures it.

 

The weapon is most definitly OP in it’s current form…There is no argument that can change that.

 

When you get hit as a guard without the shield set to EM block, you will easily lose 25% shield in 1 hit, and a beachball gunship will kill you in ~5 seconds, ~10 seconds if you are an empire engineer.  When my command ship gets hit it loses 20-40% of armor per hit, a gunship will kill me before I can even turn away. 

And inties just die in 2, max 3, singularity hits in most cases.

 

You can evade them yes when they come from the front, but often they come from the side while you are already engaged, and you are dead before you can turn away to evade the next beachballs.

 

I have done my own failures that caused me to die, but singularity kills FAR too fast. It does the most DPS, and is AoE, it is OP in almost all aspects.

In a 12v12 beacon hunt, it’s OP because both teams are going to the same location, and there will be interceptors in beacon hunt.  When it’s a giant ball of ships, you can’t keep an eye on every fighter spamming blue balls.  Before the weapon changes, a few stray shots wouldn’t kill me.  Now it’s a risk that three or four shots can kill.  It doesn’t matter if it’s slow, they’re often just lucky shots that do overkill damage.

 

The other problem is that resists are trivial compared to the damage dealt.  I have an experimental EM diffuser, best of the best for protecting shields from a singularity cannon.  It’ll reduce that 2305 damage by 41 points!  Does anyone think that will help worth a xxxx?  But even using the resist modules is limiting since you need implants and modules just for the ridiculous weapon spread!

 

The only time it might not be OP is in a frigfest combat recon, and then you probably have at least four coil mortars locked onto you.

1744

What time are you playing?  Are you checking around the clock?  Right now it shows me 1579, on a Saturday.  About four hours from now, it’ll be around 1000 because of the weekend bonus.  Weekdays at 9 pm CDT it averages about 800, seriously.  I think Thursday I got three 3v3 matches in a row in T3.

Russian/European prime time. That is in the evenings, usually around 18-24 my time (I’m GMT+2).

 

DSR also shows a focus on killing pilots rather than mission objectives sometimes.  The mere fact it only includes kills vs deaths shows it’s flawed for anything other than a free for all match.  I’ve flown ships tuned for speed and some tuned for tanking.  They serve different purposes.  If I want to kill, a gunship can do it faster than others, but it’s not that good at getting to a beacon by the time my team captures it.

I agree with this in my initial post. However I still stand by my assessment that DSR farmer players are few in comparison to vast majority of players for whom that <1100 rating doesn’t mean that he’s an objective focused player, but a bad one, whereas the >1400 isn’t a kill focused, but a good one. This is simply because dead players don’t accomplish anything, and often accomplish enemy’s objectives (enemy kill count counts as secondary objective and in some cases affects primary objective in all game modes).

You can start thinking if person focuses on kills over objectives around 1600 rating or so. I did go over that number a few times, but it’s pretty hard to stay there without being too careful in your flying. I am about as far from avoiding battle hot spots and objective driven play as a person can be without being stupidly suicidal. I’m the guy you’ll currently see sitting half way between two front lines in his ECM dodging enemy fire with 4-5 people locked on him while waiting for someone to take the bait. And playing like this I’m sitting well above 1500 DSR, simply because I kill enough good people with even higher rating to offset deaths from random pulsars, torpedoes and nukes that dominate my death list at objectives.

 

The other problem is that resists are trivial compared to the damage dealt.  I have an experimental EM diffuser, best of the best for protecting shields from a singularity cannon.  It’ll reduce that 2305 damage by 41 points!  Does anyone think that will help worth a xxxx?  But even using the resist modules is limiting since you need implants and modules just for the ridiculous weapon spread!

 

The only time it might not be OP is in a frigfest combat recon, and then you probably have at least four coil mortars locked onto you.

Your extrapolation is way off. Resists scale based on amount of resist you already have. If you’re already uber tanky, then even an epic module won’t give you much. If you’re an interceptor with negative resists, it will dampen damage by several tens of percent.

And few smart frigs use mortars. The real nasty anti fighter weapon is the hail plasma. Frigates’ job is to set AoE zones in close range to allow their interceptors and fighters to contain and kill any threat in that range while keeping most of the enemy force at bay with long range weapons. Mortar lacks range for this task, and effectively forces frigate into pusher role which it’s not good at without a very good interceptor screen to ward off singularity fighters.

1745

Russian/European prime time. That is in the evenings, usually around 18-24 my time (I’m GMT+2).

You stated 2000 concurrent.  At the right times I see 2000k, but normally it’s the Russian/European time zone for evening.  For Americans, 2000 would be great to get rid of 3v3 matches in T3.  I’ll presume there’s been a boost, but I account it more to players being able to kill easier.  Every weapon has more DPS than before, thus kills are easier.  I’ve yet to decide if it’s a good thing or a bad thing.  I believe that’s a more significant factor to the player boost than any other change.

 

 I agree with this in my initial post. However I still stand by my assessment that DSR farmer players are few in comparison to vast majority of players for whom that <1100 rating doesn’t mean that he’s an objective focused player, but a bad one, whereas the >1400 isn’t a kill focused, but a good one. This is simply because dead players don’t accomplish anything, and often accomplish enemy’s objectives (enemy kill count counts as secondary objective and in some cases affects primary objective in all game modes).

You can start thinking if person focuses on kills over objectives around 1600 rating or so. I did go over that number a few times, but it’s pretty hard to stay there without being too careful in your flying. I am about as far from avoiding battle hot spots and objective driven play as a person can be without being stupidly suicidal. I’m the guy you’ll currently see sitting half way between two front lines in his ECM dodging enemy fire with 4-5 people locked on him while waiting for someone to take the bait. And playing like this I’m sitting well above 1500 DSR, simply because I kill enough good people with even higher rating to offset deaths from random pulsars and nukes that dominate my death list at objectives.

 

Your extrapolation is way off. Resists scale based on amount of resist you already have. If you’re already uber tanky, then even an epic module won’t give you much. If you’re an interceptor with negative resists, it will dampen damage by several tens of percent.

And few smart frigs use mortars. The real nasty anti fighter weapon is the hail plasma. Frigates’ job is to set AoE zones in close range to allow their interceptors and fighters to contain and kill any threat in that range while keeping most of the enemy force at bay with long range weapons. Mortar lacks range for this task, and effectively forces frigate into pusher role which it’s not good at without a very good interceptor screen to ward off singularity fighters.

DSR is absolutely pathetic.  I was milking my premium ECM for credits and got a mid 900 rating.  Now I’ve got more premiums, and it’s over 200 points higher.  I get fewer assists in the other ships.  I’m not trying to be in the top 100 of DSR by any means, http://star-conflict.com/en/ratings/kills/current/eternal/2013-08-11/elo/-1/2/.  You’re number 70 by the way.

 

Do you have any evidence that a point based resist scales against your existing resists?  The game implies they help, but looking at the weapon damages a 10% shield boost is probably far better than a 41pt resist against one damage type.

 

It’s been two and a half weeks since 0.9.0 was released.  Show me the hail plasma that still exists.  The nastiest weapon in 12v12 is singularity cannon since lucky shots do a lot of damage.  In 4v4 it’s probably something else.

1746

Hail plasma is now called “positron cannon”. If you had epic hails like me, they’re epic positron cannons now. Base functionality as a long range sniper weapon is still there. It also uses a vey similar mechanic as hail plasma and is used for same purpose. It also shares the same icon.

On damage values vs resistance, the evidence can be found in many places, for example here: http://forum.star-conflict.ru/index.php?/topic/35891-сопротивление-урону/

If you can not read russian, the formulas for damage are as follows:

If resistance is positive:

actual damage=incoming damage/(1+resistance value/100)

If resistance is negative:

actual damage=incoming damage*(1-resistance value/100)

There was a post with damage values on english forums as well, you can search for it.

EDIT: found the english version of said post here:

[http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/20483-damage-resistance/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/20483-damage-resistance/)

Fun detail: you’re the last guy to post in that thread. Did you not read and comprehend the OP of the thread?

1747

I had another way of doing it:

Damage = Base Damage multiplied by 100 divided by 100 plus resistance to that damage.

OR

Dmg = DmgB*(100)/(100+DmgR)

1748

What time are you playing?  Are you checking around the clock?  Right now it shows me 1579, on a Saturday.

F8z0QM9.jpg

8:45 pm GMT +8

 

8:45 am USA

Lagged so bad the fixed warp gate on Abandoned map sent me flying into a rock WTF. Wobbling even on Gunships now, I can’t fly anymore … Devs do something please - trying my best not to go back to planetside rawr

1749

Hail plasma is now called “positron cannon”. If you had epic hails like me, they’re epic positron cannons now. Base functionality as a long range sniper weapon is still there. It also uses a vey similar mechanic as hail plasma and is used for same purpose. It also shares the same icon.

I hadn’t noticed it lists charge accumulation time in the stats.  I didn’t realize that was the conversion in the new system since I don’t play frigates much.  I just sent a report to make it explicit.  I never really liked the charging weapons, my cursor tends to jump a little when I let go of the cursor.

 

On damage values vs resistance, the evidence can be found in many places, for example here: http://forum.star-conflict.ru/index.php?/topic/35891-сопротивление-урону/

If you can not read russian, the formulas for damage are as follows:

If resistance is positive:

actual damage=incoming damage/(1+resistance value/100)

If resistance is negative:

actual damage=incoming damage*(1-resistance value/100)

There was a post with damage values on english forums as well, you can search for it.

EDIT: found the english version of said post here:

[http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/20483-damage-resistance/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/20483-damage-resistance/)

Fun detail: you’re the last guy to post in that thread. Did you not read and comprehend the OP of the thread?

I’d forgotten about that thread.  Thank you for reminding me.

 

Let me use the math to see how survivable an Eagle-B is against a singularity.

 

Assuming three experimental EM diffusers trying to boost shields and unboosted singularity, good luck getting three:

 

2305/(1 + 103/100)=1135 damage per shot vs shields

3443/1135=3 shots to remove shields

2305/(1 + 45/100)=1590 damage per shot vs hull

3336/1590=2 shots to wipe out the hull

 

With three experimentals in five shots it’s dead, plus maybe a tap from rounding errors.  How’s that compare to “base”?

 

2305*(1 - (-20)/100)=2766 damage per shot vs shields

3443 / 2766 = 1.24 shots, one shot will remove 80% of shields

 

The second shot will still have 2089 damage after it strips off the last of your shields.

 

2089/(1 + 45/100)=1440 damage to hull from the remainder of that second shot

1896 hull remaining, and considering the damage per hull shot is 1590, one more hit leaves you with 306 hull strength and no shields.

 

Three shots will result in you having only 4.5% of your strength left, throw in a submatter shield or lightweight hull and it’s only three shots until death.  That’s with Empire R1 implant and Fed R3 implant.  I think I did those after reading the damage resistance post since most of the resists are point based.  I don’t feel like testing for each possible combination.

 

How’s a three shot kill, i.e. 4 seconds without a rate of fire buff, not being overpowered?

1750

Lagged so bad the fixed warp gate on Abandoned map sent me flying into a rock WTF. Wobbling even on Gunships now, I can’t fly anymore … Devs do something please - trying my best not to go back to planetside rawr

> Flying a Phobos

 

Well, there’s your problem…

1751

Synergy sucks. I’m working on getting a Phobos, I just don’t like flying the ships enough to level it up.

1752

Devs do something please - trying my best not to go back to planetside rawr

If PlanetSide didn’t crash all the time I’d never have left it.

But yep, SCon’s lag is surely going to kill it for me.

1753

> Flying a Phobos

 

Well, there’s your problem…

Stop whining about R4/R7/R10 they are not THAT BAD. They are worse,but not terrible.

1754

Stop whining about R4/R7/R10 they are not THAT BAD. They are worse,but not terrible.

Some of them are arguably better even (Fox vs Fox-M comes to mind). Phobos is unfortunate because it is the only Empire T3 Gunship despite that being their main line and hopelessly worse (except in looks) than the two Fed T3 Gunships.

1755

Phobos is fine if I could make use of it’s +15% main weapon damage. Gauss hits like a xxxx on that ‘thrashcan’.

 

Thing is, server lag is getting so bad.

 

I can live with wobbly inties - got 2 other classes to fly. I don’t mind skipping shots or active mods activating 2 heartbeats too slow and letting that missile take me down to hulls coz flares didn’t pop in time. But warp gating is impossible when server pop is 2000+ players. Picking out targets to lock on to is impossible. Evasive maneuvers trying to block out target paint, slows etc usually = death by ramming as I crash on asteroids. Dogfights vs interceptors ? I used to pwn these fools with mah hail on gunship … now? I’m wormfood. Can’t even enjoy the uber-OP beachballs as they now fly out in random directions *sigh*

 

I’d take CTDs every so often over gamebreaking lag - atleast I get to kill in-between restarts.

 

@Jrisom - OP singularities is a hard counter to OP’d heals. It’s working.

 

4 shots to kill in under 6 seconds = OP?

  • Only if you allow him the opportunity to make those shots.

 

Too many people do isolated calculations and ignore multiplayer factors. Too many techies in SciFi games they often miss the art behind teamplay.

1756

Stop whining about R4/R7/R10 they are not THAT BAD. They are worse,but not terrible.

Hey, I flew a Katana to unlock the S. I know how bad they are. But it was fun as hell to fly, though.

1757

@Jrisom - OP singularities is a hard counter to OP’d heals. It’s working.

 

4 shots to kill in under 6 seconds = OP?

  • Only if you allow him the opportunity to make those shots.

 

Too many people do isolated calculations and ignore multiplayer factors. Too many techies in SciFi games they often miss the art behind teamplay.

Multiplayer is where it actually gets worse.  It’s in beacon hunt with 15 players within 3000m of you that you’ll get blindsided and not even hear it so you have to look for it.  If you’re focusing on another guy you’re probably not checking your shield stats every half second unless you hear yourself taking fire.  You won’t even know there’s a fighter targeting you with a singularity until the shields are gone and you won’t know where it’s coming from until you get a lock on or see balls flying.  It’s generally not from the front where you can veer, it’s from the side where you don’t even see it.  It’s less of a concern in combat recon, detonation, or capture the beacons, and domination’s not too bad sometimes, but beacon hunt has singularity issues.  It just takes spam in the middle of an active area.

 

As for OP’d heals, those are limited because I’m having more matches where I have to sit and wait for my shields to heal because engineers are gone half the time.

1758

How’s a three shot kill, i.e. 4 seconds without a rate of fire buff, not being overpowered?

If I’m a federation interceptor configured for speed and I get hit by a slow anti frigate weapon three times, the other player outplayed me so massively he deserved the kill. I’m not seeing a problem here. I would be seeing a problem here if even after playing that badly I would not be killed.

 

Reminder: heavy plasma, the weapon that became singularity cannon routinely two-shotted interceptors. If you let it hit you that is.

1759

If I’m a federation interceptor configured for speed and I get hit by an slow anti frigate weapon three times, the other player outplayed me so massively he deserved the kill. I’m not seeing a problem here. I would be seeing a problem here if even after playing that badly I would not be killed.

I think you have overly high expectations of yourself and others… I’m not sure if this is a good thing.

1760

I think you have overly high expectations of yourself and others… I’m not sure if this is a good thing.

I have an expectation of people that play badly not surviving. If people playing badly survive, there’s little interest in learning and we get healing retardedness of 0.8.0 all over again, where people flew in straight lines.

 

If you outplay someone’s int that is specced for pure speed so much that you land three full hits with quad gun singularity, you deserve that kill. Period.

 

 

P.S. Encountered that weird lag that kine keeps talking about for the first time ever just now. Hilariously it came on CR just after we warped on their cap and killed him, and they killed our captain during the lag. Horrible rubber banding with ship getting pulled around. Pretty xxxx timing.