Star Conflict OBT v. 0.9.0 Discussion

Your logic makes no sense whatsoever. How is it a “tax on paying customers” when EVERYONE has to follow the same route and when paying customers are at a distinct advantage as compared to non-paying ones?

My “tax” was referring premium ship owners, not standard ships.  Currently, you pay for a premium, and then pay to use it to progress.  Standard ships you just play to progress.

 

WT is:

  1. A product on popular subject (ww2) rather then niche (space shooter).

  2. Much older product.

On a final note SC’s population doubled after 0.9.0 and currently stands at above 2000 simultaneous players during prime time.

The number of players has not doubled.  Even if Gaijin fudged the numbers it’s not double.  Last night for a while the T3 queue was low while T1 and T2 were high.  I had to go back and forth in matches with NASA squads.  Maybe Americans are coming to the game more but a lot haven’t reached T3 yet.  The number of players is still dipping below 1000.  You’re looking at the wrong time of day.

 

The following image depicts exactly what the content of the next patch is:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/dabde87f5dee3757023d88db8fac7e5a/tumblr_mi2exgUZ2l1rnlayxo1_250.gif

Maybe they’re working on T3 customizations?  Plus there’s a list of trivial bugs that need fixed.

in fact, i’ve found a certain… player… who has over 1200 games, 4.5 kills per game, but only has R6 in all factions. technically, you should be R7 in all ship classes, all factions by 600 games max. so he’s got over 600 games stomping people in lower tiers with experimental R6 mods… NICE… lol… bro has skills :stuck_out_tongue:

The credit grind used to slow you down a lot.  I was R11 on implants and R9 on ships.  Now I have one R10 ship.

 

Skill is not the same as advancement.  If he was switching between all the factions, I can understand playing 1200 games and being in T2.

The credit grind used to slow you down a lot.  I was R11 on implants and R9 on ships.  Now I have one R10 ship.

 

Skill is not the same as advancement.  If he was switching between all the factions, I can understand playing 1200 games and being in T2.

I had R12 implants and R7 ships xD It was/is really bad D:

The credit grind used to slow you down a lot.  I was R11 on implants and R9 on ships.  Now I have one R10 ship.

 

Skill is not the same as advancement.  If he was switching between all the factions, I can understand playing 1200 games and being in T2.

 

no, he’s what you call a ‘stat padder’… currently T2s are mostly matched with other T2s and T1s… i see T3s in my matches but rarely, and this is R6…

 

play enough of those game and your stats will go up, mines have started going up in R5/R6 because of these matchups.

 

in fact… it’s more like 500 games max for T7s, so 700 games in excess… anyways, abusable because of tier imbalances.

 

i told them how to fix this. they don’t have to separate tiers, but they can for an easy fix. although increased queue times.

 

however, at T1/T2, separating the tiers might not be so bad, since there’s plenty of players to queue with at that level. it makes sense since T1s were nerfed into the ground/

 

on the other hand, it migh create a bad impression for new players if queue times are exceedingly long, but so does imbalanced gameplay.

 

then again, it would also mean that T2 would be pushed into T3 games, creating once imbalance to fix another.

 

like i said… this needs serious looking into and not ‘bandaid’ fixes…

“find me a broken game mechanic and i will abuse it” - who said that? i can’ recall…

Everyone? It’s not hard to find a bug and abuse it because the devs aren’t fixing anything. In fact, they even say “it’s working as intended.”

in fact… it’s more like 500 games max for T7s, so 700 games in excess… anyways, abusable because of tier imbalances.

Not everyone plays with a license. Besides, actually playing the game with the items that to unlock is the entire purpose of the contract system is abuse now? I just love your posts…

I’ll be in T2 at least until I’m R9 everywhere btw. Want a tissue?

Not everyone plays with a license. Besides, actually playing the game with the items that to unlock is the entire purpose of the contract system is abuse now? I just love your posts…

 

you’re right… 500 games is a license, 750 games without a license. so we can take an average and assume 625, since we don’t have this information.

 

however, consider this individual has a 50% higher kills per game than me, that should technically eliminate that difference completely. therefore back to 500 games.

 

when stats don’t make sense like this, it usually means one thing only: stat padder ;p

 

and i dunno about you but i already have all the T3 mods i need from T2 salvage. in fact, i almost never get T2 stuff in T2 games… always T3 greens :\ or T2 purples…

 

someone else mentioned this before, that you seem to get enough/more or it may seem that way fo higher tier military gear, so all you need are the ships.

 

i even fly with mk1/mk2 stuff in half of the cases where i don’t have a green… it’s not a huge difference, max 15%.

 

refusing to fly mk1/mk2 is basically stat padding.

 

I’ll be in T2 at least until I’m R9 everywhere btw. Want a tissue?

 

oh, how nice of you to drop in :slight_smile:

 

also, you do realize that by not flying R7-R9, you are not gaining synergy on those ships. wasting time in a lower tier basically. in this case, the matchups happen to be favorable.

 

although i heard there’s a command to get more detailed tier-based queue info. (this used to be abused in world of tanks to queue in tiers lower than your own).

you’re right… 500 games is a license, 750 games without a license. so we can take an average and assume 625, since we don’t have this information.

Fair enough.

 

however, consider this individual has a 50% higher kills per game than me, that should technically eliminate that difference completely. therefore back to 500 games.

Not following here. Loyalty is based on contracts, which are timed. Kill count doesn’t matter for that.

when stats don’t make sense like this, it usually means one thing only: stat padder ;p

It’s a pretty normal kill stat that makes perfect sense. Would be sad if experience and items didn’t reflect in the stats. Also depends on the type of ship you prefer fly.

oh, how nice of you to drop in :slight_smile:

Heh. I wouldn’t mind the loyalty grind to be sped up considerably to be more in line with the pace set by synergy/rank advancement btw. It’s funny to see all the rage about synergy when the real grind is loyalty.

Fair enough.

 Not following here. Loyalty is based on contracts, which are timed. Kill count doesn’t matter for that.

It’s a pretty normal kill stat that makes perfect sense. Would be sad if experience and items didn’t reflect in the stats. Also depends on the type of ship you prefer fly.

Heh. I wouldn’t mind the loyalty grind to be sped up considerably to be more in line with the pace set by synergy/rank advancement btw. It’s funny to see all the rage about synergy when the real grind is loyalty.

There has been enough rage about loyalty since 7.9 and nothing has truely changed. It was sped it by about 75% yes, but it is still about 500%-700% slower than before contract changes.

Not following here. Loyalty is based on contracts, which are timed. Kill count doesn’t matter for that.

 

yea, you’re right. i was just thinking of the credits necessary to buy the ships and some equipment.

 

It’s a pretty normal kill stat that makes perfect sense. Would be sad if experience and items didn’t reflect in the stats. Also depends on the type of ship you prefer fly.

 

well, the net effect of this approach is that you’re making it longer than it needs to be (the grind) on yourself. the point is to not play a ship past the level it needs to be to get to the next.

 

i’m not saying you have to play it like that… it’s just the most efficient way to level. :\

 

Heh. I wouldn’t mind the loyalty grind to be sped up considerably to be more in line with the pace set by synergy/rank advancement btw. It’s funny to see all the rage about synergy when the real grind is loyalty.

 

i’m still on the fence about this one. 48 hours in-game. i’m assuming 60 by the time i have all R7. 60/3 hours a day avg is 20 days. or 3 weeks. so i’m assuming it’ll be another 4 weeks for R10, 8 weeks for R13. maybe another 8-10 for R15.

 

total: 15 weeks for T4(R12), 23-25 weeks for T5(R15). so 4-6 months… that’s a bit too long for premium. should be 3-5 months for R15. 4 might be a good average.

 

seriously, a player doesn’t need more than 4 months to get good at a game, before they get bored. to extend the time beyond that is not appealing…

 

it appears synergy may need a 50% boost, but still testing.

yea, you’re right. i was just thinking of the credits necessary to buy the ships and some equipment.

 

 

well, the net effect of this approach is that you’re making it longer than it needs to be (the grind) on yourself. the point is to not play a ship past the level it needs to be to get to the next.

 

i’m not saying you have to play it like that… it’s just the most efficient way to level. :\

 

 

i’m still on the fence about this one. 48 hours in-game. i’m assuming 60 by the time i have all R7. 60/3 hours a day avg is 20 days. or 3 weeks. so i’m assuming it’ll be another 4 weeks for R10, 8 weeks for R13. maybe another 8-10 for R15.

 

total: 15 weeks for T4(R12), 23-25 weeks for T5(R15). so 4-6 months… that’s a bit too long for premium. should be 3-5 months for R15. 4 might be a good average.

 

seriously, a player doesn’t need more than 4 months to get good at a game, before they get bored. to extend the time beyond that is not appealing…

 

it appears synergy may need a 50% boost, but still testing.

It takes 1-2 weeks to get from L9 to L12 with 1 sub-faction, and L13-L15, I expect, will be about 1-2 months for each sub-faction.

There has been enough rage about loyalty since 7.9 and nothing has truely changed. It was sped it by about 75% yes, but it is still about 500%-700% slower than before contract changes.

Might be it’s working out for them though. Judging from my combat logs there are surprisingly many premium weapons/mods being used. Not sure how that’s in the top tiers considering the rather steep price progression for those mods.

 

yea, you’re right. i was just thinking of the credits necessary to buy the ships and some equipment.

In my experience only really becomes an issue in T3+ where the prices are about tripled compared to T2, repair costs increase but PVP income is about the same as T2.

 

well, the net effect of this approach is that you’re making it longer than it needs to be (the grind) on yourself. the point is to not play a ship past the level it needs to be to get to the next.

 

i’m not saying you have to play it like that… it’s just the most efficient way to level. :\

For some that’s the point, sure. For me the point is to actually play the game. I like blowing up space ships. Leveling up is very secondary. Besides I have up to R9 ships and except for being more flexible due to more active mods it’s just more of the same … plus nuke suicide spam. Also I have played every ship up to R6, which you may not have if you try to advance as fast as possible.

Different ways to enjoy the game, but it’s really not abuse to be playing R6 even though you could play higher. Besides, not sure if it’s because of my stats or the same for everyone, but these days it’s fairly rare for me to play R6 without playing against T3. So that keeps it balanced anyway.

For some that’s the point, sure. For me the point is to actually play the game. I like blowing up space ships. Leveling up is very secondary. Besides I have up to R9 ships and except for being more flexible due to more active mods it’s just more of the same … plus nuke suicide spam.

 

just saying that grinding mods on lower tier means you still have to grind the synergy on the higher tier, doubling the time it takes to level.

 

Also I have played every ship up to R6, which you may not have if you try to advance as fast as possible.

 

every ship except about 4-5 you can skip because they lead to the same unit, or 1 dead end. but they’re just secondary, and i’ve played those entire ship lines as well.

 

after T2 if you want to advance fast, just grind the 3 major lines on each faction, not the 2 secondary ones. you can switch to secondaries at any point in the future, but you find that the lines converge in T4.

just saying that grinding mods on lower tier means you still have to grind the synergy on the higher tier, doubling the time it takes to level.

yeah, but not grinding them at lower tiers means I’ll never have a use for them. Concentrating on Synergy means I’d be R15 in ships before being fully R9 in loyalty.

 

My “tax” was referring premium ship owners, not standard ships.  Currently, you pay for a premium, and then pay to use it to progress.  Standard ships you just play to progress.

Star gem’s current logic with premium ships: “We do not support pay to win. Premium ships allow for easy credit farming”. You also generate almost three times as much free synergy as you would in a normal ship. Essentially premium ships give you extended capability to progress while playing the ship tier you enjoy, far beyond what similar credit ship would allow.

 

The number of players has not doubled.  Even if Gaijin fudged the numbers it’s not double.  Last night for a while the T3 queue was low while T1 and T2 were high.  I had to go back and forth in matches with NASA squads.  Maybe Americans are coming to the game more but a lot haven’t reached T3 yet.  The number of players is still dipping below 1000.  You’re looking at the wrong time of day.

Duruing the low time (US prime time) game had online population of less than 500 at the end of 0.8.5. Immortal frigate crap killed the game for too many players and even T3 queues were insane at those times. T2 was still functional because frigate immortality wasn’t present in that tier in same magnitude.

Conclusion: player numbers appear to have doubled both in EU prime time (1000 > 2000) and US prime time (500 > 1000).

There has been enough rage about loyalty since 7.9 and nothing has truely changed. It was sped it by about 75% yes, but it is still about 500%-700% slower than before contract changes.

You have an overly rosy memory of the old model. I used to get something around 1000 for loss and 2000 for win back then if I remember correctly. Nowadays if I come to play a handful of games a day, I will get several times more than what I would have gotten with the old model (three contracts per game, awarding 600 to 3500 each).

If only slows you down significant if you grind hardcore, and even then the only way to go to numbers you quote is to chain lose every game. Getting victory contract alone gives you about 1/4 of the old gain.

Considering that you can cycle factions when grinding, you will rarely if ever really run into a situation where you don’t have three contracts picked for completion. As a result, your gain is usually close to what it used to be back when loyalty was tied to reputation even when grinding if you do it right, and actually higher than it used to be if you’re just coming in for a few games.

The current model with loyalty appears to be fairly well made. It punishes the ultra grind (and even more so PvE grind) but rewards smart playing, winning and people who play just a few games a day. The only major problem I see with it is the insane increase in loyalty needed for R13>R15.

And on topic of reputation, I suspect that for grinding just one type of ship/racial implant they actually reduced the grind significantly. Look at the utterly insane numbers needed from the loyalty screen and imagine how many games you would have needed with the old system to hit R15 with any of the factions. Also consider that they also reduced the reputation gained from tiers lower than your current maximum tier around 0.8.x.

I suspect that the actual numbers would have been pretty crazy for reputation grind under the old system, far worse than even current synergy grind provided you just want one type of a ship/racial implant and not all of them.

Rounded up math: with average 50% win ratio and when playing maximum rank ship available to you, you’d be earning around 1500 rep per game under old system. It takes 1.390.000 rep to go R12>R15 for a single faction. That rounds up to approximately 926(!) games.

I’ve played much less than that since new patch, and I have 2 ship lines up to R15, one of them had to be leveled from R10 no less.

On a side note, this math is pretty depressing. I shudder when I think that some people actually had multiple R15 levelled up before the patch. That requires thousands upon thousands of games.

Where are these 2,000 players hiding, PvE?  HA!

Funnily enough, PvE queue for T3+ blackwood is near instant at the moment, and you can see quite a few people farming T4/T5 synergy there. Even ESB guys are there when they are solo, as they just like everyone else avoid T4/T5 PvP when not squadded during times when big teams aren’t in T4/T5.

I wouldn’t be terribly surprised to see a fair portion of those players to be currently alternating between PvP and PvE.

To summerize the my feelings in this giant 80 page thread:

 

This game has become crap and if it becomes any more crap in the next patch I’m just going to give Chris Roberts all my money.  (Well… he has it all already but thats besides the point) :01111:

I’m genuinely surprised that there are actually many people willing to give more than game cost before we even know how the game will function. We still don’t even know if star citizen will require joystick for proper controls as that question has been continuously evaded.

But they do make awesome advertisement videos. And people pay for vaporware that they know very little about outside marketing materials. It’s exactly like buying a car without taking it for a test drive, just based on the advert you saw on TV. Except that it’s even worse, as you can expect car controls to be universal “steering wheel, pedals”. We still don’t even know how star citizen will be controlled. I doubt anyone including designers of the game know at this point frankly, because the game is still in design stage and anything that is already designed is in a state of flux and subject to dramatic changes.

We can criticize star conflict because we know exactly how the game works - we’re playing it. Advertising star citizen as “solution to all problems found in star conflict” which is surprisingly common at the moment is an epitome of stupidity - you do not know what the game will be like. Hell, the game isn’t even out of design stage, so even game’s designers don’t know what the game will be like. And if no one knows what the game will be like, how can you claim it will solve problems that other games have?

P.S. I’ve put down enough money for basic package, mainly because I loved freelancer and would like to see a game similar to that game come out. But I’m certainly not putting down a penny more until I actually get to see how the game mechanics work.

You want to go back to 0.8.5. That is going back to invincible OP frigates. Your talk point on bloody front page of the forums could not be more clear about it. Your talk points in this thread could not be more clear about it.They’re not coming back and good riddance. Skill matters on frigates now, just like on everything else.

Luckyo, OldSpice flew a Raptor Mk II during the “invincible frigate” era, which I (as an Inty pilot) equated to being a big ball of dynamite protected by a sticker saying “please do not shoot.” He’s not asking for invincible Frigates back. He never had them to begin with.

It’s called reading. Do it a little more thoroughly.

It’s called reading. Do it a little more thoroughly.

This comes from a person who claims that his imaginary “frigate hate” which he admitted he couldn’t find, but assured us all to exist anyway? Really?