Star Conflict OBT v. 0.9.0 Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
781

regarding this video. i’ve figured out a way to sum this up.

 

the pay barrier: make it really low… simply put: make it even 20$… if the player sees enough value, they’ll spend it, which makes them more likely to spend more in future. currently it’s like 50-70$ to fly a premium T3/T4 or two… and it really won’t buy you much else except a license.

 

this squeezing the juice out of the orange just won’t work. (see video)

 

when you get a customer, who pays even 5$ using your store, it means you’ve gotten them to your store, and to input their information. and that leads to repeat sales, as long as there is value for them in the future.

 

it also brings more players to the game, which in effect should create a feedback loop.

 

that’s all assuming that the game is enjoyable to play, but with the currently limited weapon options… debatable.

I find this game a lot of fun. But the fact that I feel that I am not even really progressing is a kick in the nuts.

782

But… now… seriously.

 

Why did u nerfed Cov Ops (shrapnel cannon nerf is an inderirect nerf to cov ops too actually…more than to others ceptors) … and keep ECM as they are?

 

Those ships are insane op dudes.

 

And, i think, everyone can undertand, i’m not talking couse i’m whining… i can simply play ECM too… i have premium t3 and t4 ecm… and Kriss AE too (the most op ship in the univers after Shrapnel cannon nerf).

 

Actually i did just some minuttes ago for a couple of matches… and they are devasting. They are the really “badass killers” in interceptor family atm… a plasce “should” be taken from cov ops. 

 

Why i don’t simply play those and stop posting? Couse there is no fun for me in playing a ship can : stop other ships from do anything exept being killed. Than if maybe the miracle happens and they survive from total inibition u can: prevent them from using any modules so they can’t escape… leach their energy so they can’t run…

 

(I mean… if u give a /kill command to ECM is almost the same thing. Not to mention when u find party made from 3 ecm )

 

I chose Cov ops couse it was fun, skill based, movement based… in 1 weeks what i had? An almost crap ship can’t shot from reasonable distance, kill frigates, carry bombs, patrol map anymore.

 

But i can use nukes when they are ready… and try have some kill loking around for people already heavy damaged… considerin i never used nukes (mine and myslayer) before patch…considering i was using low speed hight precision medium range builded weapon before patch… just MHE… this xxxxs are not my ships anymore.

 

Should i go recon? And in 2 months they will be harldy nerfed too? … sadly i’m just thinking if this game deserves my time (and my money) anymore.

 

Sadly, couse when i started Star conflict it was the first game i really enjoined in lot of years… after Unreal Tournament 3 to be specific.

783

@ snib and madeix

 

you guys seem to have missed the point of the DLC and Premium ship requests.

 

Went back through and re-read what people are asking for. Still the same thing: to be able to use one ship to level up another at equal or great speeds without paying for it.

 

I get that people are unhappy with the benefits they are getting from their premium ships; but (again) - I don’t think turning one-time purchased premium ships into a method of completely circumnavigating the new rank system makes any sense.

 

If you want to level up ships without flying them, you currently have some options:

  1. Get max synergy on a credit-bought ship, and grind free synergy ( 4.7% as effective as just playing the ship you will use the synergy on and getting the full 105% (100% of synergy + 5% free synergy gain on that))
  2. Get max synergy on a credit-bought ship, and pay to transfer excess synergy (equally as effective as just playing the other ship, but costly)
  3. Buy a premium ship, which is already at max synergy thereby saving you the time to max it out, and grinding free synergy (9.5% as effective as just playing the ship you would buy)
  4. Buy a premium ship, grinding free synergy and paying to transfer excess synergy (4.7% more effective than just playing the other ship, but costly)

Using the first method, it would take you about 21.27 times as many games to get the same amount of synergy as just using the next ship in the line. The third method would take 10.52 times as many games, and the last method would take 1.047 times less games. Basically, by buying a premium ship you can cut the number of games you have to play in order to not have to grind a ship you don’t want to play with in half.

 

Some will argue that the number of games required for equal synergy should be decreased (by increasing the free synergy percentage). I would contend that a balance has to be found regarding the free synergy payout; it should be enough that using a premium ship you can realistically expect to progress in the ship tree using free synergy, but low enough that buying a premium ship does not allow players to completely circumvent the entire system. Take the following example; if free synergy on premium and DLC ships allowed for free surpluss/excess synergy transfer, a player could grind their way to level 5 (which can be done fairly fast… without a license the other night I went from a 0 synergy Dvergr to a Dwarf 2 rather quickly), buy a premium t3 ship - then use the free synergy from that to rank up ships in other trees than the first one they used, all the while making credits at the 125% Rank 9 rate. They would’ve essentially paid about $11.50 to permanently level up 4.7% faster with an exponentially greater credit gain, and the ability to skip playing any “ships they don’t want” - a lot for a one-time purchase. Giving premium/DLC ships a 35% free-synergy conversion rate for example, would mean having to play 3x more games to rank up a ship without playing it - still a good amount more play time than just using the ship, but allows players to rank up using only premiums if that’s what they really want to do (and keep in mind, enjoying the increased credit gain as well)

 

I agree that synergy transfer is too costly. Currently, it would cost in the area of 6000 GS to transfer enough synergy to max out a rank 9 ship. That makes it about 47% more expensive to “buy out” a rank 9 ship than it is to purchase a T3 premium ship. Adjusting the GS to Synergy ratio to bring the cost of full synergy in a class to 30-40% less than the cost of a premium ship in the class might make more sense and give players more incentive to pay to not grind. It still think it makes more sense to have players pay to transfer Synergy from any ship, including premiums and DLC ships. While it would be great to use my Desert Eagle to level up my T4’s without paying another penny, I don’t think being able to do that is good for the game in the long run. It discourages players from advancing through the tiers, and instead encourages them to play only the premium and DLC ships they have become comfortable with. 

 

I agree that the incentives to buy premium ships and DLC is currently lacking, and that the devs should find something to give them that doesn’t give them a significant edge in combat.Something like a 10-15% reward bonus increase (ie, a rank 9 premium would have a 10-15% higher reward payout than a rank 9 credit ship), which would solidify premium ships as the best option for grinding credits (increased payout, and no repair costs). Or giving them unique attributes that make them a play style alternative to credit ships. For example, the paralax could have a 50% reduction in cloak cooldown.

 

note: Yes, I am this bored at work. Slowest friday ever. 

784

The whole point of transition was to slow down the progress, progress way to high before that. And you can only adjust numbers that much before you break the system. I do want extra 5-10% on free synergy gains and cheaper surpass conversion, but i honestly do not understand all those kids that are screaming i want everything naw!

The issue isn’t whether or not the progression is slower or not. It’s that you’re less free to play the ships you enjoy. Make the progression stupidly long for all I care. Just don’t link which ship you fly to which ship line you wish to unlock.

 

If the whole point was to slow down the progression, then all synergy could have been added to a global pool usable on any ship you wanted (100% free synergy). But it’s not, cause the whole point of this this transition was to ask for money to remove an annoyance intentionally built into the game. Instead of adding exciting things to buy, they added annoyances to be removed. That’s why so many are complaining.

785

WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT SINERGY  WHILE THE GAME IS NOT ITSELF ANYMORE??? i have almost all premiums and Dlc’s ship and i don’t care if they are usless (as now they are)… they can even remove them and i don’t care ( i ll lose what? 100 dollars? mhe i ll survive)… now the game forces me to play ecm and fighters with singularity (btw did u really neferd it? couse i tryed it tooday… i didn’t even need to aim… just random shot in the flock and someone die… i can’t even immagine how it was before nerf so…).

 

 

Once again… looks like they are turning a skill based game into a kids frendly one. Your choise devs… but be honest and say it… don’t lose my time (and others competitive players time) in this kind of commedy.

786

Slowest Friday ever for me too.

The issue for me, as I’ve said, is lack of agency. I have no desire to advance in the game anymore because doing so requires me to fly ships I simply cannot stand. These include:

Phobos. This is possibly the WORST ship I have ever flown (a damn shame; it was awesome in 0.7.x). It’s so bad I almost gave up on playing T3 because of it. Why would I ever want to grind that ship again?

Raptor Mk II / Dagger AE. They are Rank 4. 'Nuf said.

Elf. This is a Rank 8 Recon. I bought the Rank 9 Premium because I wanted a little more oomph. In short, why would I fly a ship I bought a Premium specifically to replace?

These are all glaring issues with the new model. I dearly hope Gaijin address them.

787

Slowest Friday ever for me too.

The issue for me, as I’ve said, is lack of agency. I have no desire to advance in the game anymore because doing so requires me to fly ships I simply cannot stand. These include:

Phobos. This is possibly the WORST ship I have ever flown (a damn shame; it was awesome in 0.7.x). It’s so bad I almost gave up on playing T3 because of it. Why would I ever want to grind that ship again?

Raptor Mk II / Dagger AE. They are Rank 4. 'Nuf said.

Elf. This is a Rank 8 Recon. I bought the Rank 9 Premium because I wanted a little more oomph. In short, why would I fly a ship I bought a Premium specifically to replace?

These are all glaring issues with the new model. I dearly hope Gaijin address them.

Oh god the Phobos… even the Deimos 2 feels more powerful. 

788

WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT SINERGY  WHILE THE GAME IS NOT ITSELF ANYMORE??? i have almost all premiums and Dlc’s ship and i don’t care if they are usless (as now they are)… they can even remove them and i don’t care ( i ll lose what? 100 dollars? mhe i ll survive)… now the game forces me to play ecm and fighters with singularity (btw did u really neferd it? couse i tryed it tooday… i didn’t even need to aim… just random shot in the flock and someone die… i can’t even immagine how it was before nerf so…).

  

for starters no one is forcing you to play ECM and fighter, yes ECM feels like on a strong side while it is used in organized play, but when it is solo it is very good against n0obs, it is no where OP against players that know what to expect and how to avoid/counter it.

After the nerf Singular Canon is no longer your i win button, did you even try after latest patch?

You post is couple days late :))

 

Once again… looks like they are turning a skill based game into a kids frendly one. Your choise devs… but be honest and say it… don’t lose my time (and others competitive players time) in this kind of commedy.

It doesn’t take any less skill now than before (even so called mindless, endless missile spam that i am still yet to see in T3 to a proportions people are screaming about it, introduced a new skill on receiving part inway of constant( it was always important but so many people just ignoring this and lol pewpew) awareness of your surroundings and position on a battlefield due to a chance of getting missile in a face)

789

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ8KPD3YvC4

 

Even Godzilla is mad of your patch!

 

Listen to his cries of despair before the ninja nerfz of guards!

790

Slowest Friday ever for me too.

The issue for me, as I’ve said, is lack of agency. I have no desire to advance in the game anymore because doing so requires me to fly ships I simply cannot stand. These include:

Phobos. This is possibly the WORST ship I have ever flown (a damn shame; it was awesome in 0.7.x). It’s so bad I almost gave up on playing T3 because of it. Why would I ever want to grind that ship again?

Raptor Mk II / Dagger AE. They are Rank 4. 'Nuf said.

Elf. This is a Rank 8 Recon. I bought the Rank 9 Premium because I wanted a little more oomph. In short, why would I fly a ship I bought a Premium specifically to replace?

These are all glaring issues with the new model. I dearly hope Gaijin address them.

 

At least you don’t need to grind a Templar AE. (And I believe I saw you on the opposing team in a T2/3 match a few hours ago.)

791

the ability to skip playing any “ships they don’t want”

 

that’s exactly the point of what premium ships were bought for before the patch… plus the reward bonus.

 

see, you buy a ship with a reward bonus… so you’re progressing with it… now you have to give up your reward bonus… to progress with something else… useless…

792

that’s exactly the point of what premium ships were bought for before the patch… plus the reward bonus.

not exactly, they were bought to skip SOME ships, not every single one.

793

At least you don’t need to grind a Templar AE. (And I believe I saw you on the opposing team in a T2/3 match a few hours ago.)

 

The Templar type S is far far worse… it was a horrible grind!

794

The Templar type S is far far worse… it was a horrible grind!

 

Ho you have no idea how it’s the same for the crusader :smiley:

And do not expect better thing until you are full experimental on your crusader type S later :smiley:

795

:sad:

796

@ Madeix - you are explaining and defending a balanced system that I am not even arguing against.

 

I don’t have actual numbers to work with but the little that I do have points out that the progression change made things better for some players, generally the same overall and about 4.5 times worse for the other segment. Where else the older system had a blanket cap on everyone, this new system distributed progression speed differently among the players. I don’t care, in certain cases it is good. Imma take your numbers as accurate.

 

What you are not commenting on from my post is the concept of value.

 

 

DLC bonuses and Premium ships themselves had a higher value before than it does now.

 

 

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the balance of progression in the new system. Both mentions synergy and that’s why it may be confusing.

 

OK - Lets talk about in-game payment and PN2G (pay not to grind) concept

 

Lets start with the question: “Will it unbalance the game if Premium ships gave out 100% synergy conversion?”. Simple and direct.

 

My answer is no - it will not. Here’s why.

 

You can already do that in this current system. Just like you say. Synergy conversion to Free Synergy. BUT IT’s EXPENSIVE !?.

 

Correct. Just like how a unit of GS is more expensive when bought at lesser quantities.

 

You either spend $1.50 leveling up your ships bit by bit OR you fork out $75 for one DLC like most of us did and get to business leveling up your ships wholesale via Premiums.

 

It’s the same darn thing.

 

 

So question 2 is: “Will allowing some players speed rank unbalance the game?”

 

Again my answer is No. It will not.

 

T4 and T5 is deserted. The whole synergy progression overhaul was (probably) aimed at getting people to rank down a single path faster to populate higher tiers.

Now you have customers who paid and willing to pay - asking to be allowed to rank up and populate higher tiers at an increased rate.

 

Is this against the progression philosophy? - No.

Is this in any form overpowered ie. will our T4 premiums be stronger than credit premiums? - No.

Will this in any form harm lower tiers and new entries to the game? - No. In-fact it’'ll serve that end better

Is this pay to win? - No.

 

Is this pay to grind less? - YES

Will this retain premium ship’s previous value? - YES

Will this serve as incentive to continue buying premium ships when T5 ships come out? - YES

 

 

Is having some portion of your playerbase unlocking content early when endgame material (T5) has already been released be a bad thing or a good thing ?

  • I’ll let Gaijin / Stargem to decide on that last one.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

 

[edit]

 

on that note,

 

improving missile performance is actually worse than giving out full synergy conversion.

Missile = DPS = combat factor = pay to win

Synergy = pay to grind less

Funny how people are more inclined to let that one slide

 

Heck if it’s all the same: just gimme zero synergy conversion but 100% loot chance on premium ship. That’s not unbalanced … i swear.

797

Let me explain to you, to make synergy 3 options :

 

_Kills ----> With the new frig’s weapons (BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA)

_Assist ----> 1300m of range for the debuff module (BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH)

_Objectivs ----> You’r too slow (BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA)

 

 

 

Edit : And now i can complain about the imbalance of the synergy system between ships. RELEASE THE RAK-EN !

798

not exactly, they were bought to skip SOME ships, not every single one.

 

no, its the same… because now you actually have to buy every ship in every ship line… you’re not just skipping ships…

 

so even though you’re getting synergy and credits, you still need to spend all that, and all the grind involved.

799

Will this serve as incentive to continue buying premium ships when T5 ships come out? - YES

This point is wrong, if you just let prem ships accumulate and then spend synergy at those higher rates and ability to spend on ANY ship will not lead to buy new prem ships, it will be enough to let say by a 1 NUkem in t3 and just play your game regularly with it, after while you will have you t5 unlock without even flying t4/t5 and you do not need another prem ships because your current one will unlock everything.

800

no, its the same… because now you actually have to buy every ship in every ship line… you’re not just skipping ships…

 

so even though you’re getting synergy and credits, you still need to spend all that, and all the grind involved.

requirement to own previous ship was introduced in 0.8.0 not in 0.9.0 you still had to buy all the ships pre 0.9.0