Star Conflict OBT v. 0.9.0 Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
281

There are more than one problem in the previous patches, in fact, there were so many problems that if you change one to fix this or that, others problem will just arise soon enough.

 

That’s just how balancing works, and is not confined to this game. It is also a big reason a lot of MMOs have a “test server” or some such, so that changes can be tested and other related problems caught and fixed before putting the patch onto live servers, and to prevent having the majority of your playerbase rage/quit when sweeping, non-thoroughly tested changes hit the live servers.

 

Frigate except LRF have no mine now, didn’t people cry about mine all the time?

 

Yeah, sure, I was one of them. My stance has been that adding a ~3s activation time to them would have been much better than stripping them entirely from everything besides a LRF. That way intys couldn’t do a fly-by minefield bomb right on your head with no chance of escape. Though honestly, if it’s either LRF only have them, or it’s back to the old way, I would choose LRF only have them. Not the ideal solution but better than all the abuse we’ve seen. I understand frig pilots wanting them back. I say give them (and everybody else who had them, why not) their minelayers back with ~3s activation time, and we have no more problems. Everyone has their minelayers, but they can’t be instantly activated on someone in the middle of a dogfight. Problem solved, everybody is happy minus those few who abused them as a crutch.

 

And I’ve seen enough Inty dancing around like it was nothing in a bullet rain fired from 5+ ships.

 

Speed, agree, surviability, not really, It’s funny how inty can survive with that many bullets fired at it, while no other ships can.

 

It just depends on the situation. A good inty pilot can dance around several ships if the other ships pilots aren’t very good; they can do that without speed or turn mods. They are supposed to be able to do that. If any of his opponents are decent, they’d know to use a slowing missile/snare skill/debuff/AoE/etc. There is a whole plethora of ways to take an inty down, trust me I know, I’ve died plenty of times in every way imaginable. If 5+ ships are continously firing at a single inty and unable to hit it, they either need to change their loadouts or practice more. It’s not hard with the correct loadout, that’s why slowing missiles/skills, hitscan weapons, and debuffs exist.

 

Speed doesn’t gain you raw survivability - a pilots ability to dodge incoming fire doesn’t directly correlate to the amount of shields/hull/resist it has. It’s still the same weak inty, just more deadly in the hands of a good pilot. It’s the same situation with every other ship in the game. I have 1v1’d my inty against well-piloted fighters and frigates and got my xxxx handed to me plenty of times. I’ve also handed overzealous inty pilots their asses plenty of times in my fighters and frigs - though I rarely play frig (personal preference).

282

nm im done here

283

Okay now I’m pissed.

Stacked up to 140 EM resists on my hull, and resist active module active = more than 200 EM resist on hull.

That Singularity shiet still took down 18k hull of mine like nothing.

 

That shiet needs a nerf.

 

A hard nerf.

 

@id0l: with unpredictable maneuverability, without the help of modules or missiles, you can’t Inty hit unless you use assault lasers or pulse laser, which either deals no damage or just spread around the target in a funny way.

284

@id0l: with unpredictable maneuverability, without the help of modules or missiles, you can’t Inty hit unless you use assault lasers or pulse laser, which either deals no damage or just spread around the target in a funny way.

 

That simply boils down to piloting/aiming skill; I’ve killed plenty of quick intys without missiles or module help using RFRs, assault rails, lasers, etc…plasma can be tricky but it can be done too. Not to mention luring them into a mine(s), using your frigs Pulsar, etc. Often times I’d let an overzealous quick little inty turn and do a strafing run on me, only to two-shot them with RFR when they got close. It was glorious.

 

Saying “you can’t kill inty without XXX” is a blanket statement and it’s simply untrue. Some will have a harder time than others, it’s just the nature of competitive gaming.

285

I have to disagree on that aiming skill you stated, yes, you can try catching up with him in a very close range to ensure your hit (which is hard to do on most ships), but if you say you aim to hit him with some distance, it sounds more like a lucky hit.

286

Okay now I’m pissed.

Stacked up to 140 EM resists on my hull, and resist active module active = more than 200 EM resist on hull.

That Singularity shiet still took down 18k hull of mine like nothing.

 

That shiet needs a nerf.

 

A hard nerf.

 

@id0l: with unpredictable maneuverability, without the help of modules or missiles, you can’t Inty hit unless you use assault lasers or pulse laser, which either deals no damage or just spread around the target in a funny way.

 

This is a known problem and we will fix it. It will be helpful if you continue providing us with your feedback, so that balancing roughspots were sorted out. 

287

Okay, glad to hear it’s only a bug and will be fixed.

288

o it doesn’t. in fact: have you ever seen a tackler kill a covop? never. just cut the beam or dont even get into range, or jam him inbetween, and get on his back… dead before you know it, he won’t even be able to lock you to active his modules… same goes for inty… they kill tacklers… tacklers pretty useless now. except in small gang situations. random 1v1s, etc…

 

I have, first hand. I am a tackler pilot who picks covops over all other types of intys to kill.

 

 

Just remove bubble sh!t and make weapons free for all ships.

 

(I think i’m gonna repeat this as a mathra in the next days)

 

I’m not that sure about making weapons free for all ships. If the intention of this weapon system was to segregate the weapons from each ship class, then perhaps we can have more types of weapons per ship class. Take frigates, for example. We have LRFs that hang back and shoot (they need self-defense guns), engies that provide support fire (medium to long range weapons), guards that rush to the frontline… all these different frigates need different guns for their roles. Having 4 to choose from isn’t really much of a choice.

 

 

I gave it another go this afternoon. I think I hate the changes even more now. I feel completely pigeonholed , I don’t like ANY of my weapon “choices” anymore (I spent over 6 mil to buy all Inty/Fighter weapons), and all I see is singularity balls flying around and missile spam.

 

Apart from the OPed bubble beam, I can’t find anything for a tackler. The new stab rails are pretty, yes, but you don’t really bring stab rails to a close-combat fight. Assault rails feel totally lacking in every way (again, decent against fighters and frigates due to their reduced mobility as compared to intys). The void ray laser… unless you’re facing a really stupid inty pilot, how the heck do you keep your beam on an inty long enough for it to work its magic? 

 

Tacklers don’t play out like other fighters at all, so don’t give them the same selection of guns and expect them to do well. (I exclude the bubble gun, for obvious reasons.)

289

I have, first hand. I am a tackler pilot who picks covops over all other types of intys to kill.

 

 

 

I’m not that sure about making weapons free for all ships. If the intention of this weapon system was to segregate the weapons from each ship class, then perhaps we can have more types of weapons per ship class. Take frigates, for example. We have LRFs that hang back and shoot (they need self-defense guns), engies that provide support fire (medium to long range weapons), guards that rush to the frontline… all these different frigates need different guns for their roles. Having 4 to choose from isn’t really much of a choice.

 

 

 

Apart from the OPed bubble beam, I can’t find anything for a tackler. The new stab rails are pretty, yes, but you don’t really bring stab rails to a close-combat fight. Assault rails feel totally lacking in every way (again, decent against fighters and frigates due to their reduced mobility as compared to intys). The void ray laser… unless you’re facing a really stupid inty pilot, how the heck do you keep your beam on an inty long enough for it to work its magic? 

 

Tacklers don’t play out like other fighters at all, so don’t give them the same selection of guns and expect them to do well. (I exclude the bubble gun, for obvious reasons.)

 

Thank you for your feedback, I will make sure it will be related. 

Though I must once again explain: limitation of the weapon choice was hard, yet needed thing - this revamp will help to make game more balanced. Yes, at the moment there are some problems, but we are monitoring the situation and will do so further on. And of course we will fix OP/UP issues as soon as possible!

290

I think the main problem with this patch is the faction rank.

 

The bubbles are an easy fix, but having to level up each and every ship in that line is a painful, painful grind. Especially for people like me who have 2-3 ranks apart from a couple paid ships and my line.

 

 

I’m sorry, but the reputation/rank system wasn’t ever a problem, and if it was you just increased it tenfold.

291

I have, first hand. I am a tackler pilot who picks covops over all other types of intys to kill.

 

Same here, I fly Tacklers exclusively for my fighters (as well as CovOps for intys; I’m a Fed after all), and I have no real issues killing one with the other. Good pilots make the kill harder, sure - that’s how it should be.

 

 

Apart from the OPed bubble beam, I can’t find anything for a tackler. The new stab rails are pretty, yes, but you don’t really bring stab rails to a close-combat fight. Assault rails feel totally lacking in every way (again, decent against fighters and frigates due to their reduced mobility as compared to intys). The void ray laser… unless you’re facing a really stupid inty pilot, how the heck do you keep your beam on an inty long enough for it to work its magic? 

 

Tacklers don’t play out like other fighters at all, so don’t give them the same selection of guns and expect them to do well. (I exclude the bubble gun, for obvious reasons.)

 

Agreed. I used RFR on my Tackler as it suited my hit-n-run playstyle, and now there is absolutely no comparable weapon. Not a single weapon with even moderate burst damage; it’s all DoT. Everything feels close to useless except of course the awkward-as-hell OP bubble launcher, which everyone and their mom is using right now because it’s ridiculous…I won’t even consider using that thing no matter how good it is. It’s both an eyesore and an earsore, and shouldn’t even be viable against other fighters and interceptors anyways.

 

Though I must once again explain: limitation of the weapon choice was hard, yet needed thing - this revamp will help to make game more balanced. Yes, at the moment there are some problems, but we are monitoring the situation and will do so further on. And of course we will fix OP/UP issues as soon as possible!

 

Why was it needed? You couldn’t have simply balanced the existing universal weapons (they didn’t seem too terribly unbalanced to me anyways), and added these “new” ones on top of what already existed for all ships? Heck, make these new ones class specific, I don’t care. But completely deleting my arsenal and saying “here you go, hope you like these new ones” is a serious kick in the balls. You’re effectively telling me to completely change my playstyle because it suits your balance team better. I DON’T like these new weapons; at all. Should I just quit the game? I just spent $75 a few days ago in the Steam sale on this game, and now I feel like I got ripped off. This is not what I paid for - not to mention of course that my premium ships got changed, too. I won’t actually ask for my money back because I’m not ignorant, as I know I’ll never get it. But I will quit the game outright if I’m no longer having fun, which I’m not. Neither are my friends. See screencap in post #271 for evidence of this.

 

When I read “it will help the game be more balanced” I can’t help but hear “It’s too hard to balance what we have, so screw it, we’ve scrapped it and started over. Hope you like your restrictive new system.” If you are serious about balancing, then open a test server so that your players can test balance changes, provide feedback, and get things proper before it goes live. Y’know, like other MMOs. It’d be a lot better than forcing a whole new (dumbed down) system on your entire playerbase; most of whom never asked for or wanted such a sweeping change.

292

Well, we did buy out all the gold weapons and all the mods you had and refunded players with all the money they’ve spent. And we havent changed ships at all. We even reduced prices on them, as you have long been asking for it. 

 

Now, on the new weapons - at the moment I am getting quite a strange kind of feedback, two-face kind: good amount of players tells me that new weapons are interesting and fun, and then there is another group of players who are telling me that they don’t like weapons (actually most of you guys claim to dislike only one OP Singularity), figures-wise first group is dominant. So, is it really all that bad as second group claims?

293

But completely deleting my arsenal and saying “here you go, hope you like these new ones” is a serious kick in the balls. You’re effectively telling me to completely change my playstyle because it suits your balance team better.[…]

When I read “it will help the game be more balanced” I can’t help but hear “It’s too hard to balance what we have, so screw it, we’ve scrapped it and started over. Hope you like your restrictive new system.” If you are serious about balancing, then open a test server so that your players can test balance changes, provide feedback, and get things proper before it goes live. Y’know, like other MMOs. It’d be a lot better than forcing a whole new (dumbed down) system on your entire playerbase; most of whom never asked for such a sweeping change.

Or they could release it as, you know, an open beta. The worst thing they could do would be to be paralaysed by previous design decisions and not do any modifications on the existing mechanics by fear of pissing their “testers”.

Although I do understand that having a working cash shop and expensive DLCs during that beta makes it seriously more sensitive. Still: we all know this is a beta, and that means anything may change more or less radically. Honestly, devs seem to be doing what they can to not “grief” players when doing so.

294

Well, we did buy out all the gold weapons and all the mods you had and refunded players with all the money they’ve spent. And we havent changed ships at all. We even reduced prices on them, as you have long been asking for it.

 

I must have imagined my ships losing all their weapon mod slots, a missile slot, and being restricted to these “new weapons” then… :dntknw:

 

Wait a second…where did these 4 keybinds on my mouse go?

295

Well, we did buy out all the gold weapons and all the mods you had and refunded players with all the money they’ve spent. And we havent changed ships at all. We even reduced prices on them, as you have long been asking for it. 

 

Now, on the new weapons - at the moment I am getting quite a strange kind of feedback, two-face kind: good amount of players tells me that new weapons are interesting and fun, and then there is another group of players who are telling me that they don’t like weapons (actually most of you guys claim to dislike only one OP Singularity), figures-wise first group is dominant. So, is it really all that bad as second group claims?

You reduced prices but increased the grind. Its like saying “yeah prices are 20% off, but you now have to level every single ship instead AND buy them.”.

 

The problem wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t staring me in the face every T2 match when I get that one guy who has all T3 ships dominating the group.

296

Or they could release it as, you know, an open beta. The worst thing they could do would be to be paralaysed by previous design decisions and not do any modifications on the existing mechanics by fear of pissing their “testers”.

Although I do understand that having a working cash shop and expensive DLCs during that beta makes it seriously more sensitive. Still: we all know this is a beta, and that means anything may change more or less radically. Honestly, devs seem to be doing what they can to not “grief” players when doing so.

 

I’m not against them making tweaks and balance changes. Things definitely needed some tweaking. However, that is entirely different than straight up deleting things and replacing them with entirely different things.

 

If I was playing a fantasy MMO beta as a 2 hand sword warrior (and maybe I bought this 2 hander in the cash shop), and they deleted my Uber Sword of Slicing and forced me to play a dual wielding warrior with little league baseball bats, should I just swallow it and continue on my merry way as if nothing happened? Surely I wouldn’t, and I’d be damned sure to think twice about making any monetary purchases with that studio from then on out.

 

I was aware that they could/would still make tweaks within the game before official launch. What I was not expecting was massive, game-changing “strokes of genius” which just so happen to nullify my playstyle entirely, caters to casuals, and simply makes me not want to boot up the game. Honestly, I think I’m going to un-recommend this game on Steam (big deal right?), because I can’t really recommend it in it’s current state. It’s sad how drastically my point of view has changed with this game in one patch - I think moreso than any other patch from any game I can remember in recent times.

297

You reduced prices but increased the grind. Its like saying “yeah prices are 20% off, but you now have to level every single ship instead AND buy them.”.

 

The problem wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t staring me in the face every T2 match when I get that one guy who has all T3 ships dominating the group.

 

The amount of grind is not at all that great as many players claim it to be, yet we are still in the process of feedback aquisition and I would like to thank you for the one you have provided. 

298

Now, on the new weapons - at the moment I am getting quite a strange kind of feedback, two-face kind: good amount of players tells me that new weapons are interesting and fun, and then there is another group of players who are telling me that they don’t like weapons (actually most of you guys claim to dislike only one OP Singularity), figures-wise first group is dominant. So, is it really all that bad as second group claims?

 

I get the feeling a lot of the players saying how interesting and fun it is, did not spend much time in the game pre-patch. I’m not sure how anyone can think that less options makes for better gameplay. I still stand by my statement that adding these class-specific weapons on top of the existing universal weapons would have been (and still could be) a much better way to go. It would offer more choices for all ships in general by not pigeonholing players into things they don’t want to use, while maintaining that “class specialty” that you guys seem intent on attaching to the ships. It may be a bit harder to balance, sure - but everyone would be happy; those that liked the old weapons, and those that like the new ones. Isn’t a large and happy playerbase worth a little extra time balancing? I can only speak for myself but I think most people would be a lot more willing to spend money on your game if they’re happy and content, instead of displeased, upset or angry. Example: I spent money on this game during the Steam Summer Sale, pre-patch. I bought a 6 month license as I was happy and entertained with the game at the time, and thought I would be playing for some time to come. I even bought my best buddy a month license! However, had this patch came out prior to the sale, I wouldn’t have spent a dime because I do not like the direction the game has now taken. I feel like I wasted money; like I bought one thing and recieved a poor imitation a few days later. Touché Gaijin/Star Gem, touché…

 

You also have to realize that a lot of new players started playing during the Steam Sale, which was only a few days ago - most would barely be into T2 by this point, so their opinions would be mostly irrelevant. I’d be willing to bet a sizeable portion of those who “like” the new weapons systems have little to no experience with the “old weapons,” or how you could mod them (and switch on the fly), etc.

 

You should poll those only with active accounts dating back at least 2-3+ weeks, so that players that have experienced both pre-patched and patched systems can provide more valuable feedback. I will say this much: my friends and I started playing about a month ago (I’ve logged 70+ hours). We LOVED the game. However, after todays patch, we don’t even want to play anymore. It’s sad, as we all finally found a sweet space combat game that was just complex enough but not a full-blown simulation or anything. We had awesome flashbacks to the X-Wing and Tie Fighter days of old. You should have heard the chatter on TeamSpeak during our battles. Now, those feelings are gone, and replaced with disappointment and irritation. None of us thought the weapons were beyond fixable in a balancing sense; in fact none of us really thought anything was too OP (except for Minelayer spam, and the Pulsar somewhat). We would have been fine with a simple nerf to Minelayers, really. We were hoping for a Pulsar nerf too, but that wasn’t as bad as the Minelayer abuse. What we got was a huge game-changer, and we’ve gone back to playing other games for now.

299

The amount of grind is not at all that great as many players claim it to be, yet we are still in the process of feedback aquisition and I would like to thank you for the one you have provided. 

 

The amount of grind isn’t that bad actually… problem is you have to play rank 4 and 7 (and 13, i presume it’s the same) ships.

 

To make this new system work you should change ships specs or sinergy level required. Couse trust me, no one wanna play an underpowered ship for long.

 

But this isn’t so urgent i think… (come on guys… till yesterday u didn’t even care about t4… and now u wanna rush to t5 in 1 day?) … the priority now is review weapon system.

300

And do you realize that unlimited missiles are to punish people who like to exploit  mass speed and maneuverability, to show of something they consider skill, while what they actually do is just exploiting of game mechanics?

This patch make people actually think about waiting for their teammates, not to show off with that dodging bullet rain, if you want to dodge bullets rain, go play Touhou.

So, Fed pilots? You realize there are still space cowboys everywhere, right? Because it works, most of the time. Catching someone alone was like opening a christmas present… Now, catching someone alone when you’re flying a Fighter is like Mardy Gras! (is that how it’s spelt?)

 

This is a known problem and we will fix it. It will be helpful if you continue providing us with your feedback, so that balancing roughspots were sorted out. 

And, in the meantime, they’ll continue abusing the bugs. And they thank you for as long as you don’t fix it. Everybody’s using Fighters solely so they can use that weapon. That is the only weapon being used, atm. I do hope it gets fixed before the patch because I’ve really grown to hate that sound.

 

Also, I loved the speed nerf on every non-Fed ship… Don’t think I mentioned that when I posted last night…

 

Now, on the new weapons - at the moment I am getting quite a strange kind of feedback, two-face kind: good amount of players tells me that new weapons are interesting and fun, and then there is another group of players who are telling me that they don’t like weapons (actually most of you guys claim to dislike only one OP Singularity), figures-wise first group is dominant. So, is it really all that bad as second group claims?

Yes, new weapons ARE interesting and relatively fun. But that’s the feedback you’re getting from Gunship/Tackler pilots using the Big Blue Balls Cannon. Everyone else hates it because they can kill Frigates in 3 shots and Ceptors just don’t stand a chance. And no, it’s not as bad as the second group claims, it’s worse. Far worse. Because unless you join the bandwagon, you find yourself very dead very quick.

 

The amount of grind is not at all that great as many players claim it to be, yet we are still in the process of feedback aquisition and I would like to thank you for the one you have provided. 

It’s annoying as dicks to level Synergy. Ie, I don’t want to fly a Katana through 10-15 matches just so I can get the Katana AE. I want to buy the Katana and get rid of it so I can save up for the AE.

 

I DID post a friggin wall of text yesterday night after palying a dozen matches or so, guess no one bothered reading it.