Star Conflict OBT v. 0.9.0 Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
1981

beta you keep taking numbers out of the thin air, especialy regarding progression. here is what i have achived in past 3 weeks:

a) I had a license for whole 3 week duration because i am one of those “casual gamers”

b) i average about 15-18 hours a week

c) i flew in a squad AND solo, PvP AND PvE

I had:

  • 30kk credits

  • 8/8 ; 9/9; 9/9 In subfractions

After 3 weeks i got

  • 9kk in a bank

  • 9(30% more till 10)/12; 9/9; 9/9

  • Cerberus 3/9

  • Phobos 6/9 ->Prometheus 6/9 -> Prometheus X 8/9 (bought all 3 during this time)

  • Silent Fox 6/9 -> Wolf 6/9 -> Wolf M 4/9 (bought all 3 during this time)

  • Anaconda mkII 7/10->Grizzly mkII 10/10 ->Grizzly M 4/10 and->T rex mkII 2/10 (bought all 4 ships during this time, plus mk2 gear t4 for guard and engi + mk2 gear for t5 guard)

  • Katana 2/9 (bought during this time)

ALL of these ships i leveld in 3 weeks without spending gold on Surplus synergy from my premium ships, i grinded with determination only feds frigates in PvE, all other ships i half focused i mixed them with my prem ships that i had pre 0.9 because i ENJOY a game play and progressions comes just as a bonus to the game play. There is no need to be t5 there is almost no more content at t5 than what is accessible to you in t3 arguably due to population in t3 its even better there.

-i have 700 000 surplus synergy ready to be transferred from premium ships. (as an indication that i did fly prem ships as well and did not solely grinded my xxxx off here)

All of that in 3 weeks, in about 50 hours of game play - eliminate afking and derping/trolling general chat out of it.

Now you come here and tell me that it is freaking slow progression and will take me years to finish.

1982

it’s not what YOU have… it’s what the average player has.

 

as already stated, my stats are well above 90% of the other players i see, and i started during the day of the patch… so my stats aren’t skewed.

 

my game time was 32 hours to reach R7 (9 ships, 3 from each faction main lines). about 3 weeks.

 

the average player (key word here) plays 2 hours a day (game time), so that’s 16 days. almost 1 month, not counting weekends. to get all R7, it would take 1 month.

 

and this is with my stats (1.3+ win ratio), most players would take 1.5 months+

 

3 weeks is impossible to max 9/9 all factions and all ships (after the patch). not without playing 4-6 hours a day… but you gave an average of 3 hours play time.

 

you’re talking about several ships?.. dude… it’s like MW told you that you can only use certain weapons until you reach 6 months into your game time… personally, i don’t think it would sell too well…

 

in any case, in previous posts i’ve already said that progression needs to be increased by 50% for prem users. maybe that is a little high. possible 20-30% would seem more appropriate at this point.

 

however, ship progression doesn’t really factor much into this equation. experimental mods are the problem. and somewhat how Mk3 are setup so they become obsolete by the time you’re done with the tier.

 

notice i said that in almost 1 month (2.5 week T2) i have only ONE T2 experimental… i only had 6 loot attempts, 2 with GS, 4 with credits. even if i did all with GS, on average i would have gotten approx 2 (slightly less: 1.8). currently, not enough military to support T3 play, Mk2 items are useless… and Mk3 will take 4-5 days grind for each faction: 24-30 days total. (almost 2 months to reach R9, almost 3 months for more casual players).

 

however, experimentals will literally take months to acquire for T3… so the moral of the story is… if you stay in one tier and keep farming lower-level players, you will eventually get lots of mods you can continue to dominate them with… pretty pathetic state of affairs. hence why people say R4,7,10, etc are worthless…

1983

it’s not what YOU have… it’s what the average player has.

and what is a difference between me and an average player?

for me premium progression up to the beginning of t4 is fine

i rushed feds frigs quickly through PvE so i cant really comment on that, but up to that point i don’t see a problem

Mk2 gear is not useless, its you that have no clue how to fly, half mk2/green will destroy blue/purple ships if he knows what he is doing, and there are many many players with blues that have no clue how to fly.

i still dont see a loyalty drops form loot attemtps in your equasions, they give tons of loyalty, add to this 5th day bonus and if you fly WITH the license your contracts give way more loyalty than your numbers

1984

Yea yea, let’s all assume that everyone doesn’t know how to fly, and we - who know how to fly - only have Mk I or Mk II items but destroy everything.

1985

half mk2/green will destroy blue/purple ships if he knows what he is doing

 

and if both know what they are doing? which will destroy the other? oh… the possibilities…

 

and there are many many players with blues that have no clue how to fly.

 

there is also no shortage of players using experimental, that have no idea how to fly, yet they rack up easy kills… once again proving that this is a bad idea…

 

i still dont see a loyalty drops form loot attemtps in your equasions, they give tons of loyalty, add to this 5th day bonus and if you fly WITH the license your contracts give way more loyalty than your numbers

 

10k bonus in 5 days = 2k per day… that’s 1 or 2 battles…

 

anyways… there is a bottleneck in progression at R7. i can tell you that much. lack of military gear, and lots of 1500+dsr players in T3 with experimental gear… nevermind, there are 1200 dsr player in T3 with experimental as well. it’s a useless tier to fly in as it stands. because of all the imbalances i’ve been ranting about in my posts.

1986

and if both know what they are doing? which will destroy the other? oh… the possibilities…

you keep forgeting that there are classes and counter classes, there is no calss that will destroy everything if both of them knows how to fly most likely no one will die if they none of them fly direct counter to another, and any of them do mk1/mk2 counter part will destroy blue/experimental ships easily

 

 

there is also no shortage of players using experimental, that have no idea how to fly, yet they rack up easy kills… once again proving that this is a bad idea…

you are making it sound like everyone is full experimental geared on all ships in t3, i just tonight got my 1st experimental t3 weapon and i have t5 ships

 

10k bonus in 5 days = 2k per day… that’s 1 or 2 battles…

what about loyalty drops they are quite comon each going for 3-4k loyalty, it looks like i get average of 1-2 per hour

 

anyways… there is a bottleneck in progression at R7. i can tell you that much. lack of military gear, and lots of 1500+dsr players in T3 with experimental gear… it’s a useless tier to fly in as it stands. because of all the imbalances i’ve been ranting about in my posts.

there are hardly 1500+ DSR players in t3, most of the time its 1100-1300, most of them moved on to t4/t5, last night was the 1st time i saw a ESB squad in t3 with average 1750 DSR (they had a ComradTroy with 1860), 2 times. It was 12 v12 we won once against them, they won another and no, they do not stay back and camp - they fly to win.

R7 ships are bad but they are not that bad like 90% of players saying here, at least Phobos/Katana/Silent Fox i was able to keep 1-4 on score board in 90% of my matches, as long as you know what are the strenght and what are the downsides of your current ship, build around it, profit.

1987

If one has been grinding enough to have  blue/ experimental items, I wouldn’t doubt his fly-ability and map awareness to be better than average.

1988

If one has been grinding enough to have  blue/ experimental items, I wouldn’t doubt his fly-ability and map awareness to be better than average.

and you will be very very wrong, there is no skill in obtaining a gear none what so ever

1989

Step up from t2 to t3 is double edge sword it is way harder than t1 to t2 for tunnelvision minded players, that got use to do the same thing over and over in t2 and can not adapt or very hard to adapt, they come here and make excuses, and then there are the other population of players, and for those step up from t2 to t3 on the same level as t1 to t2 because they learned a lot in t2 and they will adapt quickly. And this has been proven by alot of pilots in many different corporations, Especially now it is much easier to advance to t3 due to the number of players and percentage of veterans flying there.

1990

and if both know what they are doing? which will destroy the other? oh… the possibilities…

you keep forgeting that there are classes and counter classes, there is no calss that will destroy everything if both of them knows how to fly most likely no one will die if they none of them fly direct counter to another, and any of them do mk1/mk2 counter part will destroy blue/experimental ships easily

 

 

there is also no shortage of players using experimental, that have no idea how to fly, yet they rack up easy kills… once again proving that this is a bad idea…

you are making it sound like everyone is full experimental geared on all ships in t3, i just tonight got my 1st experimental t3 weapon and i have t5 ships

 

10k bonus in 5 days = 2k per day… that’s 1 or 2 battles…

what about loyalty drops they are quite comon each going for 3-4k loyalty, it looks like i get average of 1-2 per hour

 

anyways… there is a bottleneck in progression at R7. i can tell you that much. lack of military gear, and lots of 1500+dsr players in T3 with experimental gear… it’s a useless tier to fly in as it stands. because of all the imbalances i’ve been ranting about in my posts.

there are hardly 1500+ DSR players in t3, most of the time its 1100-1300, most of them moved on to t4/t5, last night was the 1st time i saw a ESB squad in t3 with average 1750 DSR (they had a ComradTroy with 1860), 2 times. It was 12 v12 we won once against them, they won another and no, they do not stay back and camp - they fly to win.

R7 ships are bad but they are not that bad like 90% of players saying here, at least Phobos/Katana/Silent Fox i was able to keep 1-4 on score board in 90% of my matches, as long as you know what are the strenght and what are the downsides of your current ship, build around it, profit.

 

classes and everything aside, given 2 pilots of equal skill, the one with 55-75% better equipment will win, or in most cases it will allow him to survive even if outclassed.

 

you have to look at the other side of the equation: the main problem it creates is when you give these weapons to experienced players, who then get to crush new players with them.

 

and very few have multiple experimental mods, but those that have played for 6+ months do… and i see a lot of them in my death recaps… in every one in fact. and those are just weapons, i can’t see what mods they have. but i’d assume weapon drop rates to be lower, since their credit cost is higher.

 

loyalty rewards and drops and all that aside, i just said it takes 3-4 weeks after patch to obtain R7 ships, R6 faction. 6-8 weeks for R10 ships, R9 faction. when i extrapolate this data. 50% longer for more casual players, so 9-12 weeks (2-3 months), with license+DLC.

 

i see 2-3 1500 dsr players per T3 match per team (12v12 or above). usually in premade squads, but not always. 1500 basically means they fly higher tiers as well, so they’ve been playing longer. but i also see 1100-1200 with experimentals all the time, simply because they chose to stay in T2/T3 maybe… or for whatever other reason…

 

rarely do i see deaths by mk1/mk2 gear… sometimes it’ll show up as a secondary damage in the recap… but that’s about it. again, more empirical evidence of a difference between mk1/2 and mk3/exp gear.

 

all i’m saying is, mk3 gear should be available by the time you get the 3rd rank of that tier, to make them more accessible. it’ll lower the balance issues. so faction rewards 1 level lower. and experimental available at 3rd rank of each tier, but with high credit costs, so you have to make a choice between buying ships/advancing/other mods and an experimental one.

 

military gear for T3+ also needs to be more accessible. i didn’t have these gear problems in T1/T2 basically… (well, besides not finding any experimentals in T2, whereas i have about 5-6 T1s with only about 1/3rd the play time)…

 

you shouldn’t have to play for months just to have the same advantage as other players.

1991

and you will be very very wrong, there is no skill in obtaining a gear none what so ever

 

It’s only common sense of learning curve, if you have any statistic to support your statement, please enlighten me.

1992

Anti, pre-patch notes please?

1993

It wouldn’t matter if you got the notes or not you spend more time on the forums then you do in game.

1994

Not a valid excuse. Plus, I thought I shoul reiterate its importance.

1995

classes and everything aside, given 2 pilots of equal skill, the one with 55-75% better equipment will win, or in most cases it will allow him to survive even if outclassed.

The discrepancy like this in ship performance will happens only in case where you fight r7 ship in mk2 gear vs r9/prem with full blue/exp and only when you compare similar ships ,because r7 still can beat r9s easily if its a counter part, you just have to understand that you can not perform as many various task in r7 and you are very focused at what you can do, annoying? -somewhat. impossible to fly? - nonsense! AS soon as you move to r8 - .r9 even with mk 2 gear performance of your ships vs fullblue/exp performance is very marginal

 On top of that, it is 12v12, yeah some times it is 5v5, once in awhile, but mostly around 10v10 ±. It is not like you are forced to deal 1v1 with every single pro in the game, every team will consist of a mix, and 2 mk2 r7 ships will destroy r9 easily if those 2 are not complete idiotuses.

1996

The discrepancy like this in ship performance will happens only in case where you fight r7 ship in mk2 gear vs r9/prem with full blue/exp and only when you compare similar ships

 

yea, and that’s exactly what i’m talking about, players with r9 ships, with extra active slots, passives, mods, missiles, experimental gear, etc… the NET effect on the performance of their ship can be 75-100%, not in DPS though, 15%. still it is an effective 50-100% advantage. and the ships in the tier above you get 100-200% advantage… you can barely make a dent sometimes in tier above yours in some cases. although this carries through to some degree into R8 as well.

 

players should never be given that type of power over other players because it will cause the latter to quit more than likely if they realize they have to spend months to have the same basic advantage as everyone else. especially after the game has been out for a year or more. then you will really see people with full experimental fits flying against complete Mk1 builds…

 

that advantage needs to be reduced, and you need to be able to acquire the items you need in a short time frame, not months as is currently, or you will see major population dropoffs…

 

basically reduce grind times so that casual players have a chance to advance more quickly. to prevent abuse, simply cap the amount of awards a player can receive. ie: if you want to control to pace of advancement and want 4 hours a day avg instead of 8, as some people might play, just stop giving rewards after 4 hours in-game in a single day. or at least a 50% reduction in rewards.

 

it will also prevent people from going on binge-streaks, which really isn’t good for any individual. plus, you could still play if you’re a hardcore gamer, corp matches, etc… you just won’t get any rewards after a certain cutoff point which is considered excessive farming/binging.

 

for me, the rate of advancement isn’t too much of a bother yet, but the rate to acquire weapons/mods is a general pain as of T3 right now… close to impossible to acquire. actually even T2 experimental… impossible… without spending months in that tier and tons of GS.

1997

More gunz are needed. A lot more.

1998

yea, and that’s exactly what i’m talking about, players with r9 ships, with extra active slots, passives, mods, missiles, experimental gear, etc… the NET effect on the performance of their ship can be 75-100%, not in DPS though, 15%. still it is an effective 50-100% advantage. and the ships in the tier above you get 100-200% advantage… you can barely make a dent sometimes in tier above yours in some cases. although this carries through to some degree into R8 as well.

Where do you get those jacked up numbers from? I would really like a source. You are a 1200 DSR, less then a thousand games under your belt, barely out of T2 and you throw numbers around like a seasoned vet with so much experience that he can effectively judge things like relative efficiency. Surely you aren’t arguing based on your own extremely limited experience alone?

 

Reality in my book as 1600 DSR, all three factions levelled to T5 game veteran: DPS/efficiency difference between mk2 and mk3 of the same tier is marginal, effective ship difference fits into error margin and is largely irrelevant. It’s far more important to get a drop on the enemy and to know how to hit them in the right place at the right time rather than have better gear to the point where having purple gear will do nothing to save you if you do not know how to play well when opponent in mk2 does. Ship ranks matter much more but mainly due to implants rather than stats gained from increasing tiers, and even ranks matter less than having skill to consistently make situationally correct plays.

 

Based on above I present the following conclusion: you are frustrated about your lack of success in fighting veteran players that populate T3 compared to your success at stomping new players in T2, and you prefer to use the gear as excuse rather than accept that it’s your lack of gamplay experience and skill that is causing your issues.

 

Suggestion: stop using excuses and bear the gameplay grind needed to gain enough experience in the game to beat those veterans, as those that came before you had to do to improve. Pay attention to enemy tactical choices of players clearly performing better than you rather than their gear. Identify how they are beating you and copy these techniques.

If you do it right, you’ll very quickly find yourself outperforming most players on your team even in R7 ships regardless of gear.

 

 

Because it’s not your gear, or your ship rank that is holding you back, but the fact that you choose to use excuses instead of learning how to play better.

 

 

P.S. Stop focusing on experimental gear. It will come when it will come. Focus on getting mk3, as that is the only thing you can meaningfully impact through your own actions.

1999

Where do you get those jacked up numbers from? I would really like a source. You are a 1200 DSR, less then a thousand games under your belt, barely out of T2

 

dsr? dsr is based on your tier lmao… since there are not many 1200+ dsr player in T2, you cant raise your ranking much above that, even killing 1500 dsr players, the 900’s you kill will even it back out. the only way to raise your dsr is to go to higher tiers where you can find players with 1300+ dsr to kill haha… even in T3, you don’t find many above 1300…

 

the numbers as you see them… Mk1 add 75% and you get experimental stats… presto… magic…

 

Reality in my book as 1600 DSR, all three factions levelled to T5 game veteran

 

and there you have it, dsr is based on tier…

 

Based on above I present the following conclusion: you are frustrated about your lack of success in fighting veteran players that populate T3 compared to your success at stomping new players in T2, and you prefer to use the gear as excuse rather than accept that it’s your lack of gamplay experience and skill that is causing your issues.

 

based on the above your conclusion is null and void?

 

Suggestion: stop using excuses and bear the gameplay grind needed to gain enough experience in the game to beat those veterans

 

the day those ‘veterans’ get on my level you mean… because this is competitive pvp we’re talking about right, not some pve-mashup grind-fest?

 

yes… it takes months to get experimental, which you obviously have, given your join date of mar 2013, meaning you’ve probably played since february…

 

so we all now know, this benefits only a small portion of the community, such as yourself, who have vested interests to maintain the status quo…

 

seriously, you seem to be the only one here advocating against this.

 

ie: the simplest example known in existence - giving one ecm a range advantage over another… yea great idea… instant win every time… but such is the case with Mk3 vs experimental… and it could be months before you get the exact ecm mods you want :\ i mean years…

 

a lottery? is that what you want to play? do gaijin have an online gambling license in your state/province/country?

2000

awesome surge of postings. I love how Luckyo is actually progressing the points and beta keeps it going. +1 to all

 

drafted an essay in my head but not in the typing mood right now so Imma skip my experience / observations on the games industry and some of the core issues that we’re touching on but not singling out

 

namely:

 

how rewarding performance inherently creates imbalance vs fundamental game design dilemma (was a big issue late 90’s)

about how the pile of shite COD franchise is a big F…U by Marketing vs Game Designers

and it’s aftermath in pre-conditioning consumer behaviour skewing balance consideration

then you have the current F2P trend effectively taking us back to the stone age figuratively in terms of game balancing

 

so I’ll condense it down:

 

Gaijin + Star Gem

these guys are banking on progression for income

which is neither fine nor wrong at the same time

it’s just illogical for Star Conflict

 

My take is that they’ll do themselves, the game and us the players better service if they stop cloning and stand up balls in hand and accept that they have a winning game in their hands.

 

Screw progression and pay2grind less income model

 

Switch things around end game - add value - plan on keeping a content crew post final release

 

make money selling things

 

and stop screwing around with progression fearing money will stop once everyone is playing T5 with all gears unlocked/obtained

 

make money selling things

 

 

@ Beta and others - you can explain, argue, debate all you want but core of the problem is Devs chose this path we’re going down on. They are aware of the imbalances it creates. At the end of the day it’s a design decision. They made it.

 

Unless someone can come up with a compelling argument showing them that it would make more money with little technical effort to deviate from current course, they will not.

 

In-fact they might not even if you did - coz game content is done, bills paid, time to cash in.

 

Worse come to worse - from financial POV - if game looks promising to improve in future reincarnation - they always have the option to sell the IP.

 

so change what you can within these limits ie. damage control.

 

an overhaul aint likely gonna happen.

 

But great posts though GJ.