Star Conflict OBT v. 0.8.5 Discussion

Time line of events (As I recall them) 

 

 - Pre-steam release - 

(approx 600 players)

 

 Mix Tiering was not allowed, or was at a bare minimum. No body complained. Though we did eagerly await the steam release as T2 and T3 games took about 2-7 minutes wait time. we needed more players.

 

  • Steam release -

 

(2000 players joined and were active for about 2 weeks)

 

everyone was happy and they liked the game, no a single person complained about MM when it was single teir.

 

-Some time passed - 

 

Some wanna be T4 players started making havoc in the russian forums. this lead to a lot of changes. 

 

-Grinding for loyalty was severely nerfed. (You used to gain 1-3k loyalty no matter what per match

-Mix tiering was introduced.

 

1500 players left the game. Once they saw it took about 4 months to grind, lets say rank 1 to rank 15 in any specific faction, they ran away. 

 

-The ship roles patch- 

 

This patch actually brought some players in but they quickly left after the balance was far too off. 

 

  • Currently - 

 

There is a real issue with some ships, MM, and questions on DSR. Corps are struggling to keep active, as with the community being astonished how EVO and DYN collapsed right under their noses. 

 

It’s clear that the dev’s thought process is to increase the replay value of the game by increasing the amount of time it takes to progress.  But this sort of thinking is wrong in this kind of game.  This game is a multiplayer arena style game.  Therefore the play value won’t go down even if it only took a week to max everything out, people would still play for the sake of playing.  That is what we all want to do, blow up spaceships.  I’m not saying we should be able to max out everything in a week, I think it should only take a couple months, tops to get to the highest tier with reasonably good equipment (mk3s)

+1 for jphacks summary

+1 for codebots commentary

I agree with every word, this is how i percieved it, too.

 

TL;DR

 

the game was very much fun in march, even if unbalanced, since you were constantly rewarded, tested out new ships, and still had to find “unique” stuff. credits were the only shortage, which you could circumvent with golden ships. even those who didnt want to spend much time playing enjoyed it.

 

Maybe we also lost a small percentage of players, who were misled by the word MMO to find a twitch based Eve Online; Nobody really cares about that bunch.

 

most of the players in my peer group had distinct exit reasons:

 - buyers remorse and loss in confidence as the patch back then autosold ships with items; while I always had the position of “forged aboudid”, it sticked; I hope the lesson is learned there.

 - loss of casuality in the game by introducing severe grind factors, in a fashion, most actual players seem to be people who went into tier 2 or 3 back then.

 - Tier mixing. It made it hard to help lower players in T2 to play together as a group, since however most T3 players were hardcore, T3 seemed to manage the mixing better, but it was still sometimes really annoying to have ceptors with good fits fly faster than anything you equip in T3 and similar.

 - Waiting Times. As lots of people left, waiting times increased naturally.

 - Sudden massive Reputation decrease. Made it really hard to catch up to older players.

 - Less reputation in lower game modes, while the needed points to reach the next level actually increased; forces you to grind on your level.

 

Almost nobody complained about having less strong ships in the same tier, or lesser equipment, or the imbalances. They were met with “ok, maybe I should try this other shipclass” as remark, however, since credits became grindy, switching ship types became a never ending story, and the complaints about imbalance increased mostly as a byproduct of “not having too much progression” to keep up with the always higher tiered enemy.

Of course, the people mentioned are only a very small representation of the sum, all with a specific mindset of being open about new games, but I feel at least I can speak for our experiences.

 

I did understand the part of loyality grind; It values green items. However, together with the “10%” loot they are only credit boosts. Luckily, I was there when Loyalty rained from the sky, and since I had most of my T3 and T2 fits back then, I didn’t look for that, or find it adequate if you play with license and dlc.

 

I’d whish there was a way to increase a specific income with some strategy independent of what you play. It would be fine, if everything stays at a specific grind level, even the one used now, but you could influence one of the incomes to boost up - even to a point where you slow down in everything else - so you can meet a specific goal ingame in a reasonable time, instead of an overall slow progression. A crafting system would be also expandable for this. Refurbish loot to build weapons, or goods to sell for credits, or extract evidence or rare materials for increase in reputation or even loyality, repair your own ships or set yourself up to build missiles; possibly all from the same kind of materials, so you can decide what to do, by how you recycle them, with a mini-game of some stuff being better for one or the other thing.

This would help to catch up Reputation for new players to be placed into higher tiers with their friends, or even buying the golden ships for their sorta gameplay, or help people to get enough credits to keep up repair costs or buy new ships, or increase their loyalty gain - in a completely in-game manner, no GS strings attached, but of course, GS is fine if it speeds up all things in general.

 

I’d also whish, Licenses would at least benefit other players or could be given away, to at least keep players going up, growing them into the game.

 

Balancing issues really only concern those who like the game despite everything; but the rewards and changes in gameplay really caused a directly viewable loss of playerbase. It is specifically hard to understand, since the game is not finished, even if most of the patches seemed to be scripting the engine or media, and should at the moment even be cheaper and easier, than in the future, to gain massive momentum.

 

Bearing in mind, it is summer in the North, so many people are on vacation, while gamers have big opportunities in lots of other games on sale, so there might be a “re-migration” in August. I don’t like the future to be black.

Also bearing in mind, that f2p has a really hard position on the market at the moment, being loathed by some people because of other companies’ abuse of that model. They fear this game will end up a money sink and crash.

And bearing in mind, we have a patch in front of us and it keeps emotions boiling.

I lost a lot of the faith I had in this game when they fucked up with the Pirates.

I’m sorry, Gaijin, but when people ask me about Star Conflict all I can tell them is it’s a pay to win grindfest. You don’t care about your players - you just want to nickel-and-dime us whilst jerking off your Russian elitist playerbase, whose epeen cost you half your players. You ruined the game to keep them happy, and you’ve never shown a hint of remorse over that.

Why don’t you do us all a favour and show some damn respect to your actual players? Stop listening to Rank 12 Russians and listen to the Rank 4 Europeans who make up 50% of your player base. Listen to the people who are frustrated at not getting balanced matches, not the douchebags who want people to farm. Listen to the people who won’t spend money because you’re ripping them off, not people who won’t spend because they bought it already. Listen to the people who intend to leave because the grind is too high and the rewards too few. Listen, in short, to the people who are going to keep this game alive.

Those Russian Corps bring nothing to the game. Most of your customers are quitting long before Tier 4, so Tier 4 pilots are the last people you should listen to.

I lost a lot of the faith I had in this game when they fucked up with the Pirates.

I’m sorry, Gaijin, but when people ask me about Star Conflict all I can tell them is it’s a pay to win grindfest. You don’t care about your players - you just want to nickel-and-dime us whilst jerking off your Russian elitist playerbase, whose epeen cost you half your players. You ruined the game to keep them happy, and you’ve never shown a hint of remorse over that.

Why don’t you do us all a favour and show some damn respect to your actual players? Stop listening to Rank 12 Russians and listen to the Rank 4 Europeans who make up 50% of your player base. Listen to the people who are frustrated at not getting balanced matches, not the douchebags who want people to farm. Listen to the people who won’t spend money because you’re ripping them off, not people who won’t spend because they bought it already. Listen to the people who intend to leave because the grind is too high and the rewards too few. Listen, in short, to the people who are going to keep this game alive.

Those Russian Corps bring nothing to the game. Most of your customers are quitting long before Tier 4, so Tier 4 pilots are the last people you should listen to.

Ouch, the truth hurts sometimes :stuck_out_tongue:

And I think what Gaijin(Or stargem, whoever is balancing this game and whoever is truely running it) is trying to do is to please both the “old” players and the new players. And more aimed at the former because they have been here a longer time and thus their opinion is more valued. 

 

And just for tin-foil-hattery:

They are pulling the russians ahead of everyone else because they are from the same country and they can’t have europeans etc. beating russians now can they!

 

edit: reading the steam community group for SC…It’s laughable how LudwigHR is saying: Last patch is great. Period.    Does he really think he will get hired if he kisses their xxxx? Actually…that may be a good tactic… Who doesn’t want GM’s that tell them how good their ideas are no matter how terrible? :smiley:

It’s clear that the dev’s thought process is to increase the replay value of the game by increasing the amount of time it takes to progress. But this sort of thinking is wrong in this kind of game. This game is a multiplayer arena style game. Therefore the play value won’t go down even if it only took a week to max everything out, people would still play for the sake of playing. That is what we all want to do, blow up spaceships. I’m not saying we should be able to max out everything in a week, I think it should only take a couple months, tops to get to the highest tier with reasonably good equipment (mk3s)

As a new-ish player, I completely agree with this, 200%. It is off-putting when you realize the insane amount of time it will take to get to T4 in any one faction. And to max them all? That goes beyond dedication. I’ll give you an example of my experience.

I’m sitting at around 50 hours played right now, and have been working the same faction and sub-faction since I started playing (Fed/Armada, and I have never switched). I started playing at patch 0.8.4, the one right before this one I believe. I just now hit rank 6 in my sub-faction, and just got my first T3 ship. I have not unlocked but a couple ships outside of doing a straight line of progression with the Tacklers, my ship of choice. Specifically, I have unlocked the Tacklers in a straight line beginning with the Lynx, and only bought the Raptor, Raptor M, and the first Inty because of the quests given to acquire them.

So, I’m half-way ranked up with ONE sub-faction, just hit T3 with ONE faction, only have 6 or 7 ships total, most of which are a mix of Mk.1 and Mk.2 gear. This is at 50 or so hours played.

I won’t get too much into the completely rage-inducing issue of the demotivational loot system (or, non-loot system as I call it), and getting killed by purple weapons all the time when I have never even had one drop. Though it wouldn’t matter because it wouldn’t extract anyways. I WOULD like to know how people are so kitted out though, when I can’t even get anything worthwhile to drop - and even if it does, it never extracts. Was the loot system actually decent before 0.8.4 or something? As it is now, it is very off-putting and makes the game look pay-to-win. One of my friends even calls it pay-to-win when he’s raging (getting killed by purples over and over), though he’s known to be a little dramatic.

TL;DR

The ‘grind’ and ‘loot system’ as they are now are very off-putting to new players. Everything should not come unlocked, no, but the amount of time needed to rank up and acquire things should be lowered. Newbies realize the hundreds of hours they will have to spend to acquire that one cool-looking ship they want, and say “screw that.” Being as this is a multiplayer-focused arena type game, one should not have to do an insane grind to get the ship of their dreams. They should have to work for it, yes; but how many non-hardcore players - which usually make up a small percentage of players - are going to actually spend 100-200+ hours to get that ship (let alone equip it decently)? On the flip side, how many of those players would stick around indefinitely if they could acquire that ship in a reasonable amount of time? It’s these kinds of things that the developers need to think about before making sweeping changes to their game.

“A tidal wave can start as a ripple on the other side of the earth…”

I wonder how much of it all is a case of “the squeaky wheel gets the grease” and “the vocal minority.”

 

I do hope gaijin listens, the game has the potential of a huge future.  Perhaps instead of just a tournament, have four tournaments of tiers, no player may compete in more than one tier.  It’d be a minimal start against the difference between T2 and T3.

One thing I’m REALLY interested in figuring out is… One week has passed since this last “patch”, if it can be called that.

 

How many people are actually BUYING the Stickers/Colours after this first week? I’d actually like some numbers, just so the community can see how terrible this latest addition was.

Well, it’s happened… at long last, it’s happened… T2 has abandoned the engineer! Normally it’s just my side that doesn’t bother to bring one and there’ll be 1-2 on the opposing side (usually a Tier 3 one, because “balance” doesn’t exist in Gaijin’s world), but today I got nothing. No Engineers were involved. Ever. I think only two pilots actually had the option of bringing one at all!

 

Nice job, Gaijin. You’ve successfully convinced everyone the Engineer is a terrible class that should be avoided at all costs. Hope you’re proud of that.

Still have fun on my Hydra 2 no matter what, it’s just my love for it (don’t think of anything wrong, okay). :wub:

 

Waiting for next Monday  :slight_smile:

Well, it’s happened… at long last, it’s happened… T2 has abandoned the engineer! Normally it’s just my side that doesn’t bother to bring one and there’ll be 1-2 on the opposing side (usually a Tier 3 one, because “balance” doesn’t exist in Gaijin’s world), but today I got nothing. No Engineers were involved. Ever. I think only two pilots actually had the option of bringing one at all!

 

Nice job, Gaijin. You’ve successfully convinced everyone the Engineer is a terrible class that should be avoided at all costs. Hope you’re proud of that.

Now if that goes on for three months, we’ll start caring. Until then, welcome to the 7/9 of the classes during 0.8.x.

Now if that goes on for three months, we’ll start caring. Until then, welcome to the 7/9 of the classes during 0.8.x.

Now if you could stop acting like you’re the only person on Star Conflict who has a perfect grasp on the game in its entirety and started reading and considering other people’s opinions, then maybe you’d realise that there are severe problems with this game that you’d either seen previously and discarded or just plain missed.

EDIT: That could sound like a dev.

Now if that goes on for three months, we’ll start caring. Until then, welcome to the 7/9 of the classes during 0.8.x.

 

Actually, apart from engies which I see quite little of in T2, I still pretty much see a nice mix of everything else. 

 

The lack of engies is seriously disturbing for me, particularly since my guard frigate has no self-heal modules. Guard frigates with no engineer support is seriously bad; you can’t go anywhere fast enough, and you lose quite a bit of staying power without the constant heals. It’s a chain effect: less engies support guards -> less effective guards -> less counters against intys -> greater inty spam in T2?

Lack of Engi’s has hit me hard too; most of my inty’s and Fighters are Hull tanks. No healing really screws that kind of build over.

If ya ever seen me in game. You know one thing. If I’m in a squad and there’s an engineer. I’m literally on his butt 24/7 to keep him alive. Why? Cause he’s important. If t2 has a severe lack of it. Then we have a problem.

T2 does have a severe lack of it. I’m lucky if there’s a single engi on my side whe flying T2, and when there’s more than one you casnpretty much guarantee most of them will either not be Engi’s (ie: they don’t use group heals) or they’re flying T1 engineers.

Only ever see Hydra 2 on the opposing side now. And only in corp squads.

Well, it’s happened… at long last, it’s happened… T2 has abandoned the engineer! Normally it’s just my side that doesn’t bother to bring one and there’ll be 1-2 on the opposing side (usually a Tier 3 one, because “balance” doesn’t exist in Gaijin’s world), but today I got nothing. No Engineers were involved. Ever. I think only two pilots actually had the option of bringing one at all!

 

Nice job, Gaijin. You’ve successfully convinced everyone the Engineer is a terrible class that should be avoided at all costs. Hope you’re proud of that.

 

It’s not completely abandoned.  I flew one last night in a T2 match of realistic.  I head to a beacon for defense, and a nearby enemy engineer warpgates into me!  Suiciding in realistic, that takes guts.

 

Actually, apart from engies which I see quite little of in T2, I still pretty much see a nice mix of everything else. 

 

The lack of engies is seriously disturbing for me, particularly since my guard frigate has no self-heal modules. Guard frigates with no engineer support is seriously bad; you can’t go anywhere fast enough, and you lose quite a bit of staying power without the constant heals. It’s a chain effect: less engies support guards -> less effective guards -> less counters against intys -> greater inty spam in T2?

 

The self heal modules are useless compared to an engineer!  Do you think anyone would get bullet sponge medals from self heal modules?  I’ve gotten bullet sponge medals and barely noticed.

 

As for chain effects, it’s Kung xxxx.  Every change in strategy is a direct result in a previous strategy being too strong, and someone else finding a weakness in it.

 

Part of the problem is just engineers.  Whoever says “we need more command fighters or we’re going to lose!”  Out of the nine ship types, why is it so important for one class in the battle and the other 8 can vary at will?

Because only one of the nine can heal you. You can work around lack of resistance, or missile defence, or dps… as long as you are healing.

You will always find a healer in every squad/team in any game. It is an unwritten law.

You will always find a healer in every squad/team in any game. It is an unwritten law.

You’re so wrong… I often don’t see a healer in T3 in detonation.

 

#Goes back to his own post#

You’re so wrong… I often don’t see a healer in T3 in detonation.

 

#Goes back to his own post#

Then I’ll be there. If you ever need a healer, call on me. I only do T2 atm, though, but as soon as I get myself a T3 engy I’ll be ready to help out.