Star Conflict OBT v 0.8.0 update #3 Discussion

Because it’s a long post…

 

Yes I am. By your definition Call of Duty, Halo, Gears of War, Warhawk, Starhawk, LittleBigPlanet, Minecraft and every other game with online multiplayer is an MMO.

 

"1. An online role-playing video game in which a very large number of people participate simultaneously.

Roles, check. Video game, check. People playing simultaneously, check - yay! =)"

Role-playing games are not “games where you have a role.” Again, by that definition every game is a role playing game. An RPG is where your character, and how you interact with the world and its narrative, are the focus of the game. You may assume the “role” of Master Chief in Halo, but the game isn’t really about him - it’s about shooting endless waves of bad guys.

 

Likewise, Star Conflict doesn’t give us a role to play. Our characters don’t even exist - we never see them, hear their voices or control them directly. They do not have names or backstories unless we decide they do, and even then the game has no way to acknowledge or recognise our internal head-canon. The player character isn’t even spoken to directly in game at any time, and their behaviour goes completely unacknowledged by the gaming world; if you believe the mechanics, the Empire will quite happily hire someone who has spent months flying as Jericho’s top fighter ace, and then once said ace has all their best tech they’ll let them jump ship to the Federation.

 

There is no role playing there, ergo it fails to meet that definition.

 

As stated earlier, the argument that lots of people can play the game at once is likewise false. I suspect that most big titles on release have more people playing at once than this game does, yet virtually none of them are considered an MMO.

 

To have an online multiplayer is not enough to be classed as an MMO. Nor, for that matter, is the lack of an offline or single player mode. Most matches in Star Conflict are 8 vs 8 in lower tiers, though I believe I’m right in saying 12 vs 12 is possible. Higher tiers, Realistic or PvE, the total number of players in a match may be as low as 2. This means at best you have 24 a-side. Again, the likes of Call of Duty match or exceed that. In fact, several games not only allow more players per side, but they typically also have a larger player base, and thus more matches taking place at once.

 

Thus, it is fair to conclude that having lots of distinct and unrelated matches going on at once is not enough to class a game as an MMO experience. Remember; that first M means “Massively.” Star Conflict’s matches, in size and numbers, are lucky to manage above-average.

 

2. A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. 

I refer to the above once more, but with a second example; MAG.

Standing for Massive Action Game, MAG was a FPS title where players took part in huge matches - two teams of up to 128 players a side, giving us 256 players in a single match at once. Given, as I have mentioned, that 16-24 players in a match seems to be the norm for FPS games, and other online games typically have slightly less, it would be quite fair to call MAG a “MMOFPS”; it’s match size is massive compared to the norm, it is multi-player only and it is online only.

 

If MAG were simply another game of “8 vs 8 FPS”, then the MMO prefix would cease to apply no matter how many matches were going at once.

 

3. A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet, and feature at least one persistent world. (Hmm, note the words By necessity, eh?)

 

And yet you utterly skip the part about a persistent world.

 

Nothing in Star Conflict is persistent. When a game ends everything that took place on that battlefield is forgotten. In fact, it is entirely possible for multiple battles to be taking place in a single region. So, if we assumed this game was a persistent world, how could I be fighting over the Pandora Anomaly in a T2 match whilst another group fought a T3 battle on the same map, at the same time, with no way to interact with my game or even be aware it is taking place?

 

The Sector Conflict mode does not count as a persistent world - it is effectively a spreadsheet; a high score table with a fancy display. If this was replaced by the open world a lot of player want, then you could make an argument for the MMO title, but as it stands the game is clearly based around instanced matches with no persistent element.

 

4. Players play the video game competing against and cooperating with other players connected to an online network. 

This is another rather flimsy definition - again, by this definition every game with any kind of online aspect is an MMO. Would you say a game where only a maximum of two people can play in the same game should be called a “Massively” multiplayer game?

 

Just consider a few examples of MMOs that are unquestionably worth the title:

 

World of Warcraft:

I don’t know how many can play on a single Realm at once, but I believe the busier ones typically have 20K+ players on at a time. Twenty thousand people all playing on the same map? That sounds massive to me!

 

Runescape:

There are dozens of servers, each with a capacity of around 2-3,000 players. I believe the average server population is something like 500-1,000 players at a time. 500 players all sharing the same instance of a game? Yeah, I’d call that massive.

 

EVE:

From what I can tell there are 500,000 subscribers (if not more) currently signed up to EVE, and the game only has one gaming world. Whilst I doubt they can all play at once, it is clear that you can have several thousand people all playing at once. Again, thousands of people all in the same ‘match’ - not two dozen. This does not include Dust 514 by the way - a FPS that takes place within the EVE universe where EVE players can interact with the matches!

 

Frankly, to continue to claim Star Conflict is a MMO feels dishonest. It does not allow more players in a single world than most online games; it does not have a persistent world that people expect from a MMO game, and it has been made clear there is no intention for open world / persistent environment elements. Without those elements, the only way to truly earn that “MMO” title is to give us massive matches - maybe 64 vs 64 or 128 vs 128 - but given that Tier 3 and 4 seem to struggle to get 8 vs 8 I don’t see that happening…

Guys please stay on topic.

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38260323.jpg

Why not? ) 

 

You’ve made such an effort up there with that chinese wall of text though, JasanQuinn… hope it was worty of your time )

Why not? ) 

 

You’ve made such an effort up there with that chinese wall of text though, JasanQuinn… hope it was worty of your time )

It’s amazing what can be done whilst waiting for a Realistic match to load. :stuck_out_tongue:

Troll ON :

  • Location:Eye Of Chaos

 

Don’t Trust him ! He is working for the Dark Gods ! I’m pretty sure for Nurgle or Slaanesh !

 

Troll OFF…

 

 

 

Can we expect some Improvments on guards and Long Range in the next patch? 

 

 

I understand that players are bothered by the frigates Guards, the pulsar, inhibitor propulsion ect.ect …

But the last 2 patches and 3 updates if I do not count the weakening of jericho shields. There has been nothing new.

 

 

For Long Range, Can I stop to drive a big fighter with the mobility of a brick of dung launched into space, and with a hitbox as big as a district?

Or avoid all my torpedoes destroyed by 12 millions AMS?

 

Also !

38261624.jpg

Why all every Empire’s ships have +10% dmg when some ships have nothing? ( DO NOT SAY “Cause they are tanking on hull, and it’s harder”)

And effective Bonus please ! not all the same -x% energy consumption or -x% cooldown (cause on long Range, when you have to use it, you’r already dead.)

 

To be continued…

 

PS : I WANT A RAMMING MOD ON FRIGATES !!!

 

Blablabla, i can spend all my night on this kind of little mistake.

And once again. I will repeat: Strong was nerfed because it was a necessary change. You, our players, were telling us that it is OP’d, when we checked our statistics sheets we found out that it was indeed so. We didn’t make it into a fly though, it is still a powerfull, balanced ship which can still carry a lot of rockets. We do understandad your frustration, but you shouldn’t forget, that balance is a very important thing for MMOs. And we are not in pursue of the Pay 2 Win ideology here. 

The problem is… it still is P2W. Rather, it’s Pay to do Anything.

 

And these CovOps changes are just hell in T3s. Right now, it’s either blinking red masses of Minefields on Beacons (so much that you CANNOT see the Beacon itself) or suicidal Nukes on Recon Captains. It’s a shame the Strong and the Machete weren’t the only overpowered and abused things in the game and you contributed to keep things broken despite the nuke spam fix. Don’t get me wrong, I’m thankful you managed to fix ships constantly firing nukes at point-blank range on Beacons, but you’ve replaced one problem for another because now they can fire nukes and run away before they even fire them! Not to mention CovOps seems to be the only Ceptor to be flown due to the fact that it was already overpowered. You needed to nerf them, not buff them.

Ok, so now the only broken things in the game are Covert Ops Ceptors (even MORE broken since they are now given nukes) and Stabilized Railguns. So, +1, -2, devs, nicely done.

 

By T3 stabilized guns have significant drawbacks.  You won’t kill anything quickly with them except interceptors, and those only at medium to long range.  While some people have had success with gunships using overdrive and crit gear, that bonus works just as well with rapid fire or assault rails.  

By T3 stabilized guns have significant drawbacks.  You won’t kill anything quickly with them except interceptors, and those only at medium to long range.  While some people have had success with gunships using overdrive and crit gear, that bonus works just as well with rapid fire or assault rails.  

Yes, they do seem like regular Rails in T3s, but they are EXTREMELY overpowered in T2 matches, let alone in the hands of a Gunship.

I usually tune out anything that claims Star Conflict is P2W. Admittantly, the Strong did become very rediculous after the FF removal, and generally stayed rediculous even if those 9 slots were full of minefields instead. Yes, that ship was a premium ship. Yes, it was the only ship that had 9 huge racks, premium or not. But it was practically the only premium ship that ever backed the P2W idea, and guess what, it got fixed. The Devs probably got tired of watching Milfuelle nuke everything rather than shoot everything like he normally did [and I have a feeling the only reason his group did all of that was to show just how rediculous the possibilities had become]. The Strong’s rack was also lowered to 6 so that the minefields wouldn’t be too overwhelming [still a lot, but compared to 9?]. Still has a missile advantage, but that’s what the ship was *supposed* to have. That was the specialty of it.

 

I’m not going to go into a bunch of other things that are not yet balanced, but I will say that they are clearly keeping a far path from P2W.

As for interceptors [in general] having tactical nukes - it makes sense. It makes perfect sense. Small, very quick ship expected to drop a payload and fly as far as possible. Who was the person that was complaining that now ships can launch a nuke, and then fly out of the blast range? Do you not know how ‘tactical’ nukes are supposed to be used? You do NOT sit there and take the grunt of it unless you are suicidal and/or want to draw all of the enemies into the blast with you [which, of course, the Strong used to do]. What wouldn’t make sense is giving an interceptor a bunch of nukes.

But if you are seriously concerned about the amount of nukes being used, call for FF removal on nukes. It made them very ‘tactical’ and had shown to be a great detterent to use.

I’m just rambling now, I actually skipped a lot of the posts just so I can vent. But cheers to the camera-fixing on the frigates!

Edit: I went back and saw Oryngton’s post about the possible interceptor trend in Combat Recon. I actually used to do that in my [lion?] fed fighter before this last patch removed my nuke. Fly in at 700m/s, then overdrive and firestorm, nuke and spend the rest of my time either dwindling the captain’s shields or, more typically, insta-dying. And it often was effective. Thing is, before the interceptors were given nukes, it was already possible. It might become more prevalent now, but maybe once it does, teams will hopefully do better guarding their captain, and the captain might hear the nuclear launch and FLY OUT OF THE WAY.

The main reason captains get killed by nukes is because they wait for the nuke to come to them.

I usually tune out anything that claims Star Conflict is P2W. Admittantly, the Strong did become very rediculous after the FF removal, and generally stayed rediculous even if those 9 slots were full of minefields instead. Yes, that ship was a premium ship. Yes, it was the only ship that had 9 huge racks, premium or not. But it was practically the only premium ship that ever backed the P2W idea, and guess what, it got fixed. The Devs probably got tired of watching Milfuelle nuke everything rather than shoot everything like he normally did [and I have a feeling the only reason his group did all of that was to show just how rediculous the possibilities had become]. The Strong’s rack was also lowered to 6 so that the minefields wouldn’t be too overwhelming [still a lot, but compared to 9?]. Still has a missile advantage, but that’s what the ship was *supposed* to have. That was the specialty of it.

 

I’m not going to go into a bunch of other things that are not yet balanced, but I will say that they are clearly keeping a far path from P2W.

Your intuition is correct. The nuke spamming was intended as a demonstration of how FF acted as a good deterrent, and the subsequent removal of FF produced these unwanted results. How many missiles the Strong could take into battle did not used to be such a conversation starter, though I am glad it has now been addressed.

Troll ON :

  • Location:Eye Of Chaos

 

Don’t Trust him ! He is working for the Dark Gods ! I’m pretty sure for Nurgle or Slaanesh !

 

Troll OFF…

 

 

 

Can we expect some Improvments on guards and Long Range in the next patch? 

 

 

I understand that players are bothered by the frigates Guards, the pulsar, inhibitor propulsion ect.ect …

But the last 2 patches and 3 updates if I do not count the weakening of jericho shields. There has been nothing new.

 

 

For Long Range, Can I stop to drive a big fighter with the mobility of a brick of dung launched into space, and with a hitbox as big as a district?

Or avoid all my torpedoes destroyed by 12 millions AMS?

 

Also !

38261624.jpg

Why all every Empire’s ships have +10% dmg when some ships have nothing? ( DO NOT SAY “Cause they are tanking on hull, and it’s harder”)

And effective Bonus please ! not all the same -x% energy consumption or -x% cooldown (cause on long Range, when you have to use it, you’r already dead.)

 

To be continued…

 

PS : I WANT A RAMMING MOD ON FRIGATES !!!

 

Blablabla, i can spend all my night on this kind of little mistake.

Ships w/o bonuses. Can you name me those ships in PM? 

 

offtop: none of those two, look closer at the avatar :wink:

Found one of the Ninja Nerfs…

 

The range bonus for command modules on the Strong are gone as well

 

Only thing remaining is the missile reload rate.

Nope, it’s not a ninja nerf. We just missed this while writing patchnotes .___.

Will add it, asap, thanks for the info!

Jericho Ships With No Bonus’s

t2 Rank 4 Crus Type Q (Premium)

t2 Rank 6 Priest Bartle (Steam DLC)

t3 Rank 9 Ira Deus (Standard)

t3 Rank 9 Katana Type S (Standard)

t4 Rank 12 Lance type S (Standard)

 

Federation Ships With No Bonus’s

T1 Rank 2 Raptor (Standard)

T2 Rank 4 Honor (Premium)

T2 Rank 6 Alligator-M (Standard)

T3 Rank 7 Alligator MKIII (Premium) 

T4 Rank 12 Grizzly-M (Standard)

 

Empire Ships With No Bonus’s

None

 

There are also alot of ships with almost no bonus’s or bonus’s that make little sense… like… effectiveness for recon modules… Only would apply to parasitic shield, all the rest of the mods arent helped by that.

 

I think that would be a good thing to look at and have modified for next patch, since only a few lines of code would likely be needed to be added or removed per ship. 

 

Though the strong is now INFERIOR to the other t3 command ships since they have better ship bonus’s regardless of the 6 heavy artillary slots. Just my opinion since it only has a 20% missile reload speed now.

As for interceptors [in general] having tactical nukes - it makes sense. It makes perfect sense. Small, very quick ship expected to drop a payload and fly as far as possible. Who was the person that was complaining that now ships can launch a nuke, and then fly out of the blast range? Do you not know how ‘tactical’ nukes are supposed to be used? You do NOT sit there and take the grunt of it unless you are suicidal and/or want to draw all of the enemies into the blast with you [which, of course, the Strong used to do]. What wouldn’t make sense is giving an interceptor a bunch of nukes.

But if you are seriously concerned about the amount of nukes being used, call for FF removal on nukes. It made them very ‘tactical’ and had shown to be a great detterent to use.

 

Edit: I went back and saw Oryngton’s post about the possible interceptor trend in Combat Recon. I actually used to do that in my [lion?] fed fighter before this last patch removed my nuke. Fly in at 700m/s, then overdrive and firestorm, nuke and spend the rest of my time either dwindling the captain’s shields or, more typically, insta-dying. And it often was effective. Thing is, before the interceptors were given nukes, it was already possible. It might become more prevalent now, but maybe once it does, teams will hopefully do better guarding their captain, and the captain might hear the nuclear launch and FLY OUT OF THE WAY.

The main reason captains get killed by nukes is because they wait for the nuke to come to them.

Thing is, not everyone can hear the Nuke being launched and Guards are too easy to counter. And hearing the nuke can actually spell your doom if you’re behind a small cover (like I usually am in Recon, so I can avoid Ceptors more easily). Hearing that nuke just forces me out of cover and into Frigate fire or worse.

 

Also considering how overpowered Covert Ops already were, giving them nukes was not the best move. Yes, it fits the theme, but CovOps already have WAY too many toys to play with. Giving them nukes without nerfing anything else in them just made the situation worse as I’ve seen yesterday while playing; Frigates just die in droves at their hands instead of killing 1-2 before having to clear out. Yes, Ceptors should be able to kill Frigates, but this boost has become ridiculous…

 

The main reason Recon Captains die is mostly due to stupidity. And, despite being disrespectful, it’s true. How many times has anyone seen a Captain on a Sniper Frigate with Mk1 gear or on ships that die so easily it’s not even funny? Or when they just rush to the other side of the field and die gloriously having been targeted by 10 people and then wondering “what happened!?” This is mostly a rant on people’s skills instead of gear, but it was already too easy to kill a Captain, let alone with nukes, now.

I know it’s off topic, but Rakza’s comment made me see the light…

 

Don’t you see? The constant, major overhauls? The seemingly contradictory design directions? The change for the sake of change mentality? Star Conflict is made by the servants of Tzeench!

 

The horror! The pink and blue Horrors!  :what:

About the Strong.

 

I stand behind my rage post. Here is further explanation.

 

So you say “you still have full sinergy and no repair”. Allright, but that’s not the reason we bought Strong and everyone knows it. Should have given us a normal ship with 9 slots than and keep premiums nearly the same if we allready have the “full sinergy and no repair” and this is not pay 2 win.

 

Premiums should have no other advantage than different skins and sinergy/repair, this is how cosmetic upgrades are done in other F2P games and are also reasonably priced. It is sad truth that players have been buying overpriced premium ships because of it’s nuke capabilities and not because of it looks! They were buying it not to support the devs, but to dominate matches and have fun with nuking.

 

This is not fair to nonpaying players who cannot have a ship with 9 slots, and also not fair to paying now that this has been “fixed”. This was the whole point of my rage post, it is deceiving  business practice and I do not like it. Should have kept the premiums the same. Should really have.

 

Those who say “shows about your skill” and “they took away my win button” are blind. This is about fundamental wrongs in the game which is advertising itself “not a p2w” but it actually is from time to time, with  carefully thought-out tactics to deceive players to buy. They wait until they sell enough broken premium ships, or premium loot chances to earn enough money and than say “ooh we fixed that, it is still a beta, so give us some credit now for our good work”. Screw that, I do not belive your PR crap, it is too obvious what you are doing.

 

I really like your game and never had a problem with putting money into it, but I just had to voice my opinion that this is not right.

There is nothing wrong with the idea of a premium ship that has unique or distinct abilities, so long as all ships (or most of them at least) also have unique and distinct abilities. If the Strong’s unique traits are balanced relative to all other ships then it is not Pay to Win and is not an issue.

 

It is clear from reading the forums, however, that the Strong was far too good.

Nerfing premiums is always hard decision. But sometimes it is not avoidable. OPness of Strong was so obvious to think that this last forever

 

My friends Strong owners keep telling that Strong is still the best Command ship at t3. But now it takes some skill to fly.