Squad Restriction is Hurting the Game

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#1

When this game first came out, my friends and I played it like crazy. Then they removed the squad limit to 2 if you didn’t have a license. Then I think squad restriction were implemented shortly after. The game practically died right after the license thing. My friends and I tried to pick the game back up but we can’t play it together because there are not any groups as large as ours playing.

 

I completely understand that in games where A team is playing against randoms the team will usually win. In all honesty though thats not because the teams are coordinating and playing as a team. Its because teams who play together are generally just better skilled than randoms. If they do play as a team then its a complete one sided victory. I understand the advantages for one and the disadvantages of the other. However, the restrictions should be removed so that the game can actually become popular again.
 

 

Everyone has the capabilities to make friends and create teams so that they can work with other people. EVERYONE has the capability. Waiting in queue forever because you can’t find another group of 3 or 4 in the lower leagues however is not something that can be worked around. You have to leave your group of friends to just play a game. I want to play with my friends in a group. Just to get around that I have to wait till I have 8 friends online just so that we can play with eachother.

 

Again I understand the advantages that a team of friends have against randoms. There have been a few games where I’m solo with randoms and I’m at the top of the chart against a group of 4. It comes down to skill mostly.

 

Please change it.

Just remove it completely

#2

Squads of 3 or 4 players usually have a big impact on the battle and this hurts a whole enemy team that might be without chance winning against the squad.

#3

That is only on some cases.  Some people just like to play with friends, not everyone who plays as a team is co-ordinating everything they do. It might be difficult for a random team to win against a group. However you don’t even try allowing a team of 4 vs 2 teams of 2, or anything else. It HAS to be 2v2 3v3 or 4v4. You are trying to keep the game enjoyable for everyone when in fact you are making it worse overall. In the lower teirs you have to play solo to get into any games. If I want to play with a friend as a 2man then we might still manage. If its 3man and 4man groups won’t even get into queues.

 

You lost a HUGE player base when you did this. I remember when I first played this game the login count was around 20 to 30k. It was incredibly fun. Everyone I knew played this game and when we introduced someone to it, they got hooked as well. Then you made changes that just killed the game. Licenses for 4mans, almost hours and weeks of gameplay just to level teirs, and the squad restrictions. You fixed the licenses and the unimaginable grind. You still have yet to fix the problem with squad restrictions.

 

Every player in the game has a way to socialize and get into teams and make friends if they don’t like playing with randoms. However, no player has the ability to queue into a game with a Xman group if no other Xman group of equal value is queue’d. (X= random number) Do you see the problem?

#4

Removed by Author.

#5

The main reason why players left is the broken matchmaking, not because of the restrictions. I bet there are several squads out there, you just can’t find them. In T3, 4 squadding is broken if you go up to Rank 9, only R7-8 + Golden R9 works. Four-squads just simply can’t find each other, we tried it several times. The restriction is totally understandable, a random team has almost no chance against a well-organized squad, especially in small games. For example with a 4vs2 you wouldn’t reach what you want, players would just simply leave, wouldn’t try to get more players in their squads.

#6

The main reason why players left is the broken matchmaking, not because of the restrictions. 

broken matchmaking has to do with restrictions (albeit they are different now, like no corp vs. corp, 3/4 treated differently than 2squads, etc)

 

the restrictions of 4-squads to premium users was indeed a bad idea, and as i recall, we all left the game for a while because of that. that was 2 yrs ago, long before the madness of tier mixing etc.

 

the assumption that squads are stronger should have led to more incentive and reward for squadding up; more transparency in the lobby about “what is going on in the tiers” could help squads meet each other. not only before, but also during queue.

instead it lead to rules which punish squads, and therefore, make squadding for weaker players less attractive. you could blame the veteran squads of course, but the reality is, if you are rewarded, even tho you lost, because they were stronger, you play again and again. if you are however only having the feeling, you are farmed, and have no choice, but to face that strong squad again and again, because there are no alternatives, you will quit the queueing.

 

the results are, that squads run fine, until one stronger squad sends them all back into solo. This makes the experienced players equally unhappy to the unexperienced ones. Also, players learn a lot more while squadding. I repeat a mantra I told 2 yrs ago: focus on the teamplay, focus on squads, focus on socialization, focus on transparency, and this game will take off.

Keep fighting fire with fire (restrictions, rules), to make games fairer, and it will achieve really nothing.

 

You dont need games to be fair, to be enjoyable. You need them to be challenging, and rewarding, and informative.

#7

And don’t underestimate the impact on the game, in most matches those 4 people are already 50% of the team. So i find it much harder than in a 2 squad. with 2 ppl you can react to your teams movement, with 4 people you have to make the movement and react in time otherwise you are the reason for losing, not the team. (often)

 

Also;

If people don’t squad (because of missing incentive) they will actually never enjoy this game to its full potential, wich is a pity. They will always see the squads as unfair because they have no idea. It is a mistake to listen to them and change the MM accordingly. Rather, make it tasty. Make them understand that this “ESB” squad learned and trained hard to get that kind of integrity & teamwork. Being good as a squad is not that devastating because they are in a squad it’s  because they know each other and they communicate. As the enemy it is your responsibility to react, to figure out their weaknesses and get to know them better, even if it means you will lose for the next 7 games. Staying and trying hard is the best way to get better, and ultimatley you will be able to apply what you learned against similar enemys.

 

Im thinking about a year and a half ago… it took me months of (nearly every time) losing against esb until if figured out how to crack the nut. Now i can apply all the different ways of countering against them and others. It is worth squadding. It improves your situational awareness, it gives you experience and you get instincts that dont require thought, giving you the edge by keeping engagements short and deadly.

#8

Removed by Author. 

#9

People leaving because they are fustrated would only be a small percentage to the people leaving because they can’t get into a game. If they don’t want to play with other people or group up that is there choice. Why should other players be punished for the choices made by others?

 

The think about squad restrictions is also bigger matches. The matches are queue’d up so that it would match up equal squads of like 4 vs 4 or 2x2 vs 2x2 and have bots fill the rest. You could have 4x4 vs 2x2x2x2 or even 4x4 vs 3x3x2. The restrictions are crippling this games matchmaking. People “MIGHT” stop playing this game because they get fustrated because they are losing a lot. Why keep those kinds of players? Those types of players are a small percentage to the players who are fustrated that they can’t get a game with their squad because of the freaking restrictions. I’ll go ahead and say it again, NONE of my friends play this game anymore because they couldn’t get into any of the games as a squad.

 

If we had 8 people, we would just queue up as 2 4mans and get a match instantly because we would be going against each other. However if the squads aren’t equal then none of us are playing together and we just log off and go somewhere else.

 

Also just throwing this out there, the people who don’t group up probably don’t because even if they did they couldn’t find a game. Anyone think about that? Why try to do something when you know it won’t work?

 

Let me repeat this one more time though. Why should everyone be punished because there is a small community of players who don’t like playing with others? Also they are probably the Aces that go freaking sniper boat in beacon capture mode. You have ALL been there. Its a game of 5 against 5, and 3 pilots on your side are all sniper boats while its a beacon capture. I am being forced to play with people like that because I can’t get a game grouped with my friends. Let them be fustrated, let them be mad, at least this way they will learn how to play the game properly and not be selfish.

#10

Personally I would like it if:

  • A squad of 2 could get a game without needing to be paired against another squad, but the matchmaker would prioritize putting you against another squad if possible.
  • A squad of 3+ needed to be paired against another squad to get a game, but it would pair you against a squad of any size rather than +/-1. The ‘vs any’ idea applies to squads paired against 2-mans as well.
  • If a team with a specific squad consistently beat another team with an opposing squad, it would consider the winning team to have an elevated rating and pair the rest of the randoms accordingly for future matches between those squads. This would reset if a player left or joined either squad.

This way there’s an improved chance of getting a game, and 2-man squads can always find one. It also helps balance psuedo-killsquads in PvP.

#11

That set up still punishes players with more than 1 friend. Honestly it wouldn’t be that bad. I could instantly get a whole group of people to play this game if only the damn squad restrictions were removed. Its the only reason and I mean the ONLY reason 20 of my friends don’t play this game. Even their own friends would play this game if only they removed the damn restrictions. I don’t see how people getting fustrated from playing against a pre-made team is worse than people not wanting to play at all because they feel like they can’t play the game at all with their friends.

#12

Also, from the viewpoint of the non-squading randoms, your argument could just as easily be inverted:

 

“Why should everyone be punished because there is a small community of players who like squadding with others?”

 

sorry, but… no. you cannot turn this argument around. you can search the news section in the past, where this theme has been discussed over, and over, and over. back then, there was a strong lobby for the “soloist”. this thread would have been filled with people complaining about “people who squad”. truth is, from those days, the active number of players who were defending the poor soloers from the small percentage of squadders has disappeared.

For a solo player, it should not matter, if the rest of the team is squads or soloers. I solo enough to say, you cannot mean this seriously. it’s not like there are “squad people” and “non-squad-people”. rather there are people who have made the transition into teamplay, and those, who didn’t, and you don’t recognize them whether they are in a squad. All of those people are punished, if 6-9 people are waiting in queue for 5 minutes and leaving, who could have fought battles with you, while you “enjoy” a 3v3 with bots.

 

It’s not about them leaving the game for good, it’s about them exiting the client, switching to another product.

 

There is no difference between someone who goes into a squad, and someone who doesn’t, except one isn’t using a feature. It’s fine if you enjoy soloing, and it should be rewarding, but please, stop playing those two virtual “people” against each other.

This kinda also applies to Xultanis; we are not two communities against each other, or sth.

 

There should be more incentive to overcome the fear of squadding. Since it is pressure for some, to go with others, e.g. a squad made up of 4 players who are rather weak, will actually not tip the balance in favor, and might even struggle with all solo teams.

#13

Why you don’t listen at all do you? You actually don’t read what you look at and pick and choose words out of a sentence?

 

The matches are queue’d up so that it would match up equal squads of like 4 vs 4 or 2x2 vs 2x2 and have bots fill the rest. You could have 4x4 vs 2x2x2x2 or even 4x4 vs 3x3x2.

 

That is what I said. As in the current way the game works, is you queue up with equal value squads and then bots fill the rest because there aren’t enough players to fill the spots.

 

Also no it can’t be inverted. You do realize that one is a choice and the other is forced upon players right? They “choose” to not play with teammates. They “choose” to not use voice comms. They “choose” to whine about things being unfair instead of learning how to play the game with skill.

 

Re: If we had 8 people, we would just queue up as 2 4mans and get a match instantly because we would be going against each other.

 

No. It seems that currently the MM is broken such that you wouldn’t be matched against another 4-squad, unless you had all premium/sub-max rank.

 

I have learned from this comment that you do not have any friends. If do then you would have tested out the matchmaking systems to learn how to exploit it. My friends and I would queue up with 2 groups of 4 and get matches INSTANTLY. The game looks for other groups to queue you up with. Thats it. It takes priority and when you are the only 2 teams grouped as 4 then you play against each other. On the rare chance that there is another group of 4, one team plays the other team has to wait till the match is over.

 

This is my whole argument do you get it? The solo pilots can play all they want. Pilots who have friends can’t play with their friends because the of the restrictions.

 

You are very ignorant of how the game evovled. You state that the developers checked the numbers and did their homework and its their livelyhood. I worked with friends in the gaming community. I can gaureentee that they do not. They look at past games and believe that is the right way. They take rules and parts from other games and put it into their games thinking its the right thing to do.

 

Let me go ahead and “do the numbers” for you and you tell me which way was “better” okay?

 

When I first played the game before they did the restrictions the login count was always over 20k and in peak hours in USA and Europe was 50k. They made the restrictions and logins dropped to 200 and 500 in peak hours in the USA and 1k to 1.5k in Europe. You know whats still funny about that? Before they removed the login counter a few months back. It never went above 2k.

 

So again you said that my comment could be inverted?? They lost a constant login of 20k to a constant of 500. So tell me buddy, please do on how your solo community of 500 is larger than my community of 20k.

#14

Xultanis as far as i understand now, you propose squads only playing against squads, with bots and no solo players? that doesn’t help either.

It’s not bad to have some rules against abuse. They just should be less strict.

Also, chill.

 

otherwise james was kinda right, that most of that IS part of seccon.

 

i like hailstorms proposal too.

 

Btw. while non-corporation members or groups who have multiple corps can indeed form their own 2 squads, people from the same corporation can’t. exceptions like this are kinda weird. and also in no way safe from abuse anyway.

#15

?? I never said I wanted bots nor that I want bots to fill the matches I want. I’m saying bots are filling the matches right now because the squad restrictions.

#16

At least consider doing it for about a month. Like an update to see how well things work out. Remove squad restrictions for all teirs for a month and see how many people come back to play.

#17

At least consider doing it for about a month. Like an update to see how well things work out. Remove squad restrictions for all teirs for a month and see how many people come back to play.

It had been this way in the past and there had been plenty of complains from non squad players being farmed.

#18

Are you talking about before the restrictions or that you have tried removing them and people complained? Because if you removed only t4 and t5 then thats not what I’m asking. I’m asking for all teirs. Also if this applies to before the restrictions were ever implemented then you do not have any grounds to make that argument. You lost tens of thousands of players because of what you guys did. You are still around the 2k login at peak hours vs the 40k from before this was ever implemented. So I don’t know where any of this “people complained about it” is legit. People complain that is fact. I’m complaining right now. However I’m not asking you to make the “game” easier because I’m a whiny baby. I’m asking you to implement a function where I can willingly choose to play with friends or solo. Right now there is only one choice that will consistantly work in the lower tiers and that is solo.

#19

Are you talking about before the restrictions or that you have tried removing them and people complained? Because if you removed only t4 and t5 then thats not what I’m asking. I’m asking for all teirs. Also if this applies to before the restrictions were ever implemented then you do not have any grounds to make that argument. You lost tens of thousands of players because of what you guys did. You are still around the 2k login at peak hours vs the 40k from before this was ever implemented. So I don’t know where any of this “people complained about it” is legit. People complain that is fact. I’m complaining right now. However I’m not asking you to make the “game” easier because I’m a whiny baby. I’m asking you to implement a function where I can willingly choose to play with friends or solo. Right now there is only one choice that will consistantly work in the lower tiers and that is solo.

 

They removed them entirely in all tiers for quite a while, and the vast majority of players complained about it, so they reverted back.

I don’t know where you got your stats, but there was never a point in this game’s life where there was a peak of 40k online.

 

Clearly you haven’t been playing this game very long, either that or you play at weird hours, but in the lower tiers (especially T3), squads are far more prevalent than in T4/5.

I agree that change is needed for matchmaking, but removing all squad restrictions would cause more players to quit than it would please. I personally think that the +1/-1 queueing system for squads would be the best, as it would allow 2-man squads to fight against randoms, and give 4-man squads more players to fight against. (They also need to fix 4-man squads so that they can queue with no restrictions on ships).

#20

The point where it was 40 to 50k online was around 3 to 4 months of its initial release. It became super popular because it was super easy to level and you could always find matches instantly. Then they did the restrictions bit and the license bit and the super grind to level up bit. The game basically became non existant. I keep coming back to this game on and off every 4months or so my friends and I will play it for about a month straight. The lack of ability to play as a squad kills our fun and because we have to play on russian servers. We set it for USA exclusively and we end up in russians servers which we were already in queue for 8 to 20mins and NOW we have to play on a server where everything is taking 2 seconds to register. I wish I knew when they removed the restrictions because I would have loved to play then.

 

I mean they could do so many other things to help with the restrictions. Like how I suggested before. Lets say 2 squads of 4 are on 1 team. Thats 4x4. Thats 8 pilots. A 4x4 could fight against 2x2x2x2 or again 3x3x2.

 

Like 2 teams of 2 could fight against 1 team of 4. They could do things to make it easier to find matches and still keep it fair. I still prefer no restrictions though.