Rework of points gained - solution to several problems

Suggestions Miscellaneous
1

Many of us are complaining about too many frigates lately, kills getting stolen because you gain much points for last hits and so on. So i sat down a while and was thinking of how to counter this and came up with a few changes that should help.

 

  • Much less points for killing people. I´d say 25 is okay.

Why? People just waiting to get the last hit will get only a very small amount of points, not worth the wait because you can earn more points easier (more on that later).

 

  • No more assist points.

Why? This will counter the frigs just popping their modules and doing nothing for the rest of the battle, as well as people just shooting everything to get an assist but not actually being valueble to the team at all.

But how will they gain points after this change? Just continue readin, i will get to that point.

 

  • Every enemy is worth 100 points (+25 for the kill). 1% damage equals 1 point. An enemy regaining full hull & shield will be reset. Eg if you have an enemy down to 20% hull and 0% shield but he regains everything back to 100% will not give you more points if you kill him later.

Why? This way you can´t farm points on purpose like, let´s say, snipe him a few times, let him regain health and kill him after that to gain more points.

 

  • Support modules with regeneration benefits (shield / hull / energy). Same calculation as damage: 1% restored gets you 1 point. If a teammate with full everything kills something, you get nothing, since you did nothing.

Why? Well, this is to encourage especially Frigate players to do more and to be more fair when it comes to the overall point distribution. While it is still possible to gain many points by this, it shouldn´t be as rewarding as before where you could just pop and camp and still be top 3 all the time.

 

  • Other supportive buffs not only affecting yourself (eg. Valkyrie, IR flares).

Well, with things like Valkyrie, it´s pretty easy. If, let´s say you have the 15% one on and you buff 2 people (yourself + 1 other person) you get 15% of the points that other player does on the enemy. Let´s assume you don´t shoot the enemy at all and the other one kills him, the other person will get 100 (-15% Valkyrie aka 15 points) + 25 points for the kill. You will get 15 points.

With things like IR flares we have to do it differently, since there is no real “value” you have here. I´d say 5 points seems decent.

 

  • Supportive buffs affecting only yourself stay as is, no points, since you already have the advantage of them on you.

 

  • Debuffs should give a fix value like 10 points but only if the enemy is killed without regaining full hull/shield.

Why? To prevent people from just debuffing an enemy to gain points.

 

  • You should be able to gain points while dead.

Why? I has happened so often to me that i engaged an enemy in a fight, almost got him and got sniped. So far, everything is fine. But now i´m dead and some random guy that just waited to get the last hit now kills that enemy and gets all points while he has done almost nothing. With this solution, this wont be the case anymore.

 

 

I hope these ideas get attention from the devs and will lead to more teamplay and less campers and killstealers.

 

 

Greetz,

 

AmmokK

2

Let’s see.

 

Currently, what you get from killing enemies is called Effectiveness points. They are there to govern the amount of money you get at the end of the round. What you are suggesting is also dealing a blow to frigates which are, for some, a handicapped class. Now, what you are suggesting is cutting the half of the rewards a frigate player gets from a game. This not only makes it not worthwhile to play frigate, it promotes going solo, doing the most damage so they can get more credits in the end. You will have sabotaged the already non-functional teamplay. With current system, frigates are rewarded because they keep their teammates operational at the price of getting killed. This has been the incentive for me to play frigates and I’d feel less inclined towards flying a frigate if I was punished because of some bad players who’d rather camp spawn instead of fighting.

3

An active frigfighter actually doing more than camping base, should now even be capable of gaining a better result. It´s just the campers that get punished.

And instead getting 60 points for doing nothing but clicking a single button at the start of the round and being in range, you now get rewarded for things you actually do. So if you have restored 50% of someones shield, you get 50 points. If you just have your buff up and noone needs it becausethey are full, you gain nothing, since you did nothing. Seems fair to me.

4

An active Frigate pilot will still be capable of doing better results yes but no active frigate pilot will equip buffing items anymore. Do you know why? Because you’ve just nerfed them. This would have promoted more solo playstyle with pure combat frigates and with EVEN MORE campers. Why would anyone keep a buffing module when you get no returns from it? Why would you care for your teammates when they don’t care for you?

 

I’ll assume you are not a frigate pilot because you are clearly not aware of what are frigates strengths and weaknesses. While you may want to improve things, I’d say do not try to improve things that are working fine as it is. I dislike interceptors with disables, it is their strong point but I’d not want them nerfed to the point of uselessness. Because what you are suggesting will harm frigates the most and without a support frigate, your chances at success is diminished.

5

It´s interesting how you assume i am not a frigate player.

Lately i am actually playing frigs pretty often, because i dont see a reason to work my butt off as an inter or fighter pilot while there are 6 frigate players camping in beacon match, so hey, lets also pick frigate and have one more player gain points for doing nothing.

 

You are saying the frigs should keep getting points even without anything regenerating, Well, okay. But then, we should also give points to fighter and interceptor players who are just shooting. Doesn´t matter if they hit anything or do damage, just reward them for clicking their left mouse button, okay? Let´s say 60 points for each click, this value seems decent, after all, frig players get lots of 60 points for a single click as well, so it´s just fair.

 

Do you really realise what you are saying? Oo

6

So you complain about stolen kills and frigates not contributing but still getting points.

 

Let’s begin with kill stealing. Do you know what a kill means? An integer increment on your profile page. Do you know what it proves? Nothing. Do you know what matters in the end? Win or Loss. Whether you’ve contributed to team or not. Complaining about kill stealing is a very silly thing to do when you are part of a team and each kill done by any member of the team is contribution towards your common goal, victory. I could not care less if I took down an enemy from full health to %1 and someone else got the kill. Because, the enemy team being one man short overcomes my greed for points.

 

You talk about frigates not contributing to fight yet still, they are getting points. Ok, understandable. Did you know that spawns are at least 15000 meters apart and often fight is centered at 6000 meters away from each spawn point? Now a frigate is only capable of projecting a buff bubble up to 4500 meters and that is with experimental equipment. So, unless they have moved 1500+ meters from spawning point, they would get nothing. An enemy Empire frigate can fire upto 12000 meters which creates a risk zone when you leave your spawning point. Since they take risks, they should be rewarded. Looks like to me, they do contribute. I have been playing battles constantly the entire week, the amount of spawn campers I’ve come across isn’t even worth mentioning. There have never been 6 frigates camping a beacon (even if they did, this is in fact a teamplay effort and you are getting dominated by the other team, deal with it and try to counter with something else, after all, there are 2 more beacons in the map) in any of the matches I’ve ever been and I’ve been in 484 battles since I’ve started. However, this doesn’t mean there are no spawn camping players. Infact, there are loads of Jericho Frigates which keep sending missiles which cannot be shot down in T2 because they’ve taken away the missile defence systems and made them T3. But, while they are flying the missile, their teammates are being shot down left and right because they have no support. Which often results in loss.

 

As I have explained above, frigates do not get points for sitting on idle at their spawn points and just using their buff bubbles to acquire points so they make profit. What I was saying actually, taking away assist points would only harm the teamplay. Do you know why? Let me explain.

 

No more assists, you have to get points by killing things and you get minimal amount of assist points for contributing to an enemy’s demise. This would be enough for people to go solo and complain more about stolen kills and would promote infighting within a team. Thus, causing them to lose the battle. You want to fight the enemy, not your own team for fighting the enemy.

 

Buff bubbles no longer provide enough returns for frigates. Did you know that there are better alternatives for them for each frigate subclass? From liquid armors to directed generators and even personal modules which would prolong the survival rate of any frigate. People would no longer use buffs on their team? Why should they? You keep them alive so they can steal your kills and you return home empty handed and probably lose money because you’ve died and repairs cost just too much?! See how badly it actually damages the gameplay? I have yet to see someone complain about kill stealing in game (unless they did in Russian which I can’t read). Because they get rewarded for their efforts they are happy.

 

I hope this explanation is helpful enough!

7

You can´t even read my post properly, yet you try to discuss with me… I never said 6 frigs camping a beacon but okay.

 

Next point you obviously are clueless about: Points!

Points are useless except for my profile page? How come you play in a good corp, you seem to be not competitive at all! Points are THE way to advance your corp in about everything because, higher rank after a match -> more points -> higher PvP ranking advancement. Also: More points -> higher rank after match -> more rewards in money -> faster possibility to buy better stuff as well as faster rank ups with your faction. You sir should really be rethinking the points you are trying to make.

So yes, every single killsteal IS valueble!

 

And what about frigs not gaining points in my calculation? Nowhere i said anything even close to that. I even pointed out they could easily gain many points. Just assume 5 friendly damaged ships around you, out of some energy as well. So that´s 3 buffs on 5 ships, equals lots of points every tick! Just let those 3 resources be missing 10% to keep it easy. That´s 3 buffs x 5 ships x 10 points. That´s a 150 points for only 10%! Dunno where your problem is but to me this is absolutely fair!

8

I rather have a system where the one who did the most damage to the ship gets the kill, but personally i don’t have a problem with the current point system.

“Every enemy is worth 100 points (+25 for the kill). 1% damage equals 1 point”

what about regens/repairs? lets say the enemy has 10k shield, i take it down to 5k, my dmg was more than 5k because the regen.

I think it would be too complicated, easily abusable.

 

“Support modules with regeneration benefits (shield / hull / energy)”

Way too easy way to get points with frigs.

 

“Debuffs should give a fix value like 5 points but only if the enemy is killed without regaining full hull/shield”

So an armada  Plasma Web would give points from the dot and points from the debuff?

 

“You should be able to gain points while dead”

At the moment you can get points while waiting for respawn. You even get a nice medal if you manage to kill s1 while respawning (from the grave)

 

The easiest an fairest way to prevent ks (which is not a big problem, i think) give the kill to the one who did the most damage to the target.

9

what about regens/repairs? lets say the enemy has 10k shield, i take it down to 5k, my dmg was more than 5k because the regen.

Effective damage, of course otherwise you could get like unlimited points if you let them always regain a bit of their hull/shield.

 

 

easily abusable.

How that? Sure, you could say in Teamspeak if you happen to get a corp member on the opposing team to farm some points, but since i talk about effective damage, there is no way to abuse. Tell me if i am overlooking something, please.

 

 

Way too easy way to get points with frigs.

Still harder than now, i think. Now you just pop the buff, do nothing and still be top 3 without problems. With my solution this will still be possible but shouldn´t be as rewarding as before, so they the must also do something on top of that to be top of the players in a round. However, it might be possible to reduce the 1point/1%. After all, this is just a guessed value. It may actually turn out to be too high or too low. But hey, it´s beta :wink:

 

 

So an armada  Plasma Web would give points from the dot and points from the debuff?

Of course! IF someone else is also involved - i explained that in the first post. I mean, you do damage and you debuff, so yes.

 

 

from the grave

Yeah, i know that thingy, i get it at least once a day (not much more though, i die so rarely^^)

I was more talking about when you get an enemy down to 20%, then you die and a while later someone gets along and kills that enemy, you should still be getting the points for that. For now, this isn´t the case, you just don´t get anything at all. Especially bad when that enemy was the captain.

 

 

which is not a big problem, i think

Every missed/stolen kill is a problem in serious competition. Every! Single! One! :stuck_out_tongue:

 

 

Greetz,

 

AmmokK

10

doublepost, no clue why  -.-

11

You can´t even read my post properly, yet you try to discuss with me… I never said 6 frigs camping a beacon but okay.

Lately i am actually playing frigs pretty often, because i dont see a reason to work my butt off as an inter or fighter pilot while there are 6 frigate players camping in beacon match, so hey, lets also pick frigate and have one more player gain points for doing nothing.

Unless my English has degraded to point of non-existance, you have said so, and you are quite unsuccessful at keeping track of what you’ve said.

 

Next point you obviously are clueless about: Points!

Points are useless except for my profile page? How come you play in a good corp, you seem to be not competitive at all! Points are THE way to advance your corp in about everything because, higher rank after a match -> more points -> higher PvP ranking advancement. Also: More points -> higher rank after match -> more rewards in money -> faster possibility to buy better stuff as well as faster rank ups with your faction. You sir should really be rethinking the points you are trying to make.

So yes, every single killsteal IS valueble!

The points you get in a match only defines how much credits you get in the end of the battle. The loyalty you get for winning and losing is almost static with minimal variance. However, the experience points are a different matter but they don’t matter because as soon as you reach maximum synergy with your ship, you no longer get any for that ship. As I have stated in the earlier post, kills on their own are not valuable (please refer to that post for explanation). You are the one trying to add value to kills by trying to prove that you are THE ONE who killed that enemy. The only difference between a kill and an assist is 40 points, which doesn’t make you rich or poor in the end. And that is why it should stay like that.

 

 

And what about frigs not gaining points in my calculation? Nowhere i said anything even close to that. I even pointed out they could easily gain many points. Just assume 5 friendly damaged ships around you, out of some energy as well. So that´s 3 buffs on 5 ships, equals lots of points every tick! Just let those 3 resources be missing 10% to keep it easy. That´s 3 buffs x 5 ships x 10 points. That´s a 150 points for only 10%! Dunno where your problem is but to me this is absolutely fair!

So by that logic, just by providing buffs to your teammates you get points? Damaged and out of energy ships aren’t really capable ships at taking out enemy ships you know. For you to get points, your teammates have to kill enemy. Could they kill it without your help? No. That is why you are getting those points. Not for camping a spawn, not for hugging a beacon. You are providing energy, regeneration to your allies, in turn, they provide points which in turn get turned in to credits in the end. Victory is gained this way, not by going after kills individually. Again, you are trying to make kills more valuable than assists, assists which help frigates be worthwhile investments.

If you really think that making kills more valuable will solve your grind problem, YOU should RETHINK that. Because as soon as change hits, everyone will become more solo oriented and you’ll be stuck with no hull, no shield regenerations and you’ll be an easy target for enemy (given that you are a frigate player). Then you’ll want the original back but it will be too late.

12

Okay, i clearly see you are able to quote me and yet are still not capable to read what i wrote, so i guess any further discussion with you will lead nowhere, since basic english is required to do so.

 

Sorry i took your time, since you obviously don´t understand me, my fault.

Entschuldige bitte für die verschwendete Zeit, offensichtlich verstehst du mich nicht, mein Fehler.

Désolé j’ai pris ton temps, puisque c’est évident que tu me comprends pas, ma faute.

Sorry dat ik ja tijd in beslag genomen heb, het is onmiskenbaar dat ja me niet verstaad, mijn faut.

Извините, что я принял ваше время, так как вы, очевидно, не понимают меня, моя вина.

13

Still, you are evading, insulting and trying discredit my points without any points made by yourself. And here I was trying to debate someone who is clearly incapable of civil debate and cannot hold a conversation without any insults being exchanged. I guess this sums it up to how much thought you have given to the issue at hand and how credible your “bright” ideas actually are.

By the way, I did read what you wrote. Many times infact, since the grammar was so horrible to begin with.

14

actually i’m playing support fighter and most of the time i’m in top three without scoring a single kill. Only by my dmg and shield buffs i can still get more points than frigates. What about that. They should lower it too? MAYBE THEY SHOULD WIPE THE WHOLE BUFF SYSTEM AND TURN THIS GAME INTO DEATHMATCH.

15

actually i’m playing support fighter and most of the time i’m in top three without scoring a single kill. Only by my dmg and shield buffs i can still get more points than frigates. What about that. They should lower it too? MAYBE THEY SHOULD WIPE THE WHOLE BUFF SYSTEM AND TURN THIS GAME INTO DEATHMATCH.

You just pointed the problem: Without killing anything and just havig your buffs up, you end up in top 3! That´s exactly my point!

While you may still be a valueble aspect to your team as buff fighter and maybe even doing 80% of the damage you “only” get rewarded for the buffs (and of course just hitting someone to collect some more points). So, if you are a good pilot (and your stats say you are pretty decent), you actually will gain even higher ranks, since you do a lot for your team.

 

Frigates do 3x the damage an interceptor does, fighter 2x the damage. So, if you gain points because of damage dealt, frigs will be more part of the battle, interceptors will need a closer look though, since i am not sure if those debuff pionts are enough to compensate the low damage they do. But that would be finetuning anyway.

16

Many of us are complaining about too many frigates lately, kills getting stolen because you gain much points for last hits and so on. So i sat down a while and was thinking of how to counter this and came up with a few changes that should help.

 

  • Much less points for killing people. I´d say 25 is okay.

There is no reason for this, it will only serve to make leveling extremely slower.

 

  • No more assist points.

this is a very bad idea, here is why: if you are say killing an enemy and someone missiles the, and they take the kill, you get no points. now put yourself in that situation 100 times, let me know if you think assists are still a bad idea.

 

  • Every enemy is worth 100 points (+25 for the kill). 1% damage equals 1 point. An enemy regaining full hull & shield will be reset. Eg if you have an enemy down to 20% hull and 0% shield but he regains everything back to  essentually you are looking at the current assist system, just in a more complex way. While i don’t have objections to the idea itself, i have objections to the practicality of it. There is a general principle Stability > easy of implementation> Uniqueness (from other games) > Support by players

 

  • Support modules with regeneration benefits (shield / hull / energy). Same calculation as damage: 1% restored gets you 1 point. If a teammate with full everything kills something, you get nothing, since you did nothing.

I am not sure this is the case anymore, but if it still is, then i support it, its to often support shots are not getting those assists.

 

  • Other supportive buffs not only affecting yourself (eg. Valkyrie, IR flares).

I could agree on this with the condition that all buffs are 2-10% (which needs to be done)

 

  • Supportive buffs affecting only yourself stay as is, no points, since you already have the advantage of them on you.

Reasonable

 

  • Debuffs should give a fix value like 10 points but only if the enemy is killed without regaining full hull/shield.

then people could spam a debuff, and just rake in points. I think it principle mechanic needs a change to “If destroyed, grant 10 points” other wise its a decent idea.

 

  • You should be able to gain points while dead.

I don’t know how i exactly feel about this, on one hand, i think that caps should be team-wide, on another while dead is a means to support afk and abuse, and this is something (Thanks be to the creator) that has not been a serious problem (Yet) and hopefully wont be, I am however finding active players idling in the back doing little or nothing. Imo, range is the cause of this.

17

Many of us are complaining about too many frigates lately, kills getting stolen because you gain much points for last hits and so on. So i sat down a while and was thinking of how to counter this and came up with a few changes that should help.

 

  • Much less points for killing people. I´d say 25 is okay.

Why? People just waiting to get the last hit will get only a very small amount of points, not worth the wait because you can earn more points easier (more on that later).

 

  • No more assist points.

Why? This will counter the frigs just popping their modules and doing nothing for the rest of the battle, as well as people just shooting everything to get an assist but not actually being valueble to the team at all.

But how will they gain points after this change? Just continue readin, i will get to that point.

 

  • Every enemy is worth 100 points (+25 for the kill). 1% damage equals 1 point. An enemy regaining full hull & shield will be reset. Eg if you have an enemy down to 20% hull and 0% shield but he regains everything back to 100% will not give you more points if you kill him later.

Why? This way you can´t farm points on purpose like, let´s say, snipe him a few times, let him regain health and kill him after that to gain more points.

 

  • Support modules with regeneration benefits (shield / hull / energy). Same calculation as damage: 1% restored gets you 1 point. If a teammate with full everything kills something, you get nothing, since you did nothing.

Why? Well, this is to encourage especially Frigate players to do more and to be more fair when it comes to the overall point distribution. While it is still possible to gain many points by this, it shouldn´t be as rewarding as before where you could just pop and camp and still be top 3 all the time.

 

  • Other supportive buffs not only affecting yourself (eg. Valkyrie, IR flares).

Well, with things like Valkyrie, it´s pretty easy. If, let´s say you have the 15% one on and you buff 2 people (yourself + 1 other person) you get 15% of the points that other player does on the enemy. Let´s assume you don´t shoot the enemy at all and the other one kills him, the other person will get 100 (-15% Valkyrie aka 15 points) + 25 points for the kill. You will get 15 points.

With things like IR flares we have to do it differently, since there is no real “value” you have here. I´d say 5 points seems decent.

 

  • Supportive buffs affecting only yourself stay as is, no points, since you already have the advantage of them on you.

 

  • Debuffs should give a fix value like 10 points but only if the enemy is killed without regaining full hull/shield.

Why? To prevent people from just debuffing an enemy to gain points.

 

  • You should be able to gain points while dead.

Why? I has happened so often to me that i engaged an enemy in a fight, almost got him and got sniped. So far, everything is fine. But now i´m dead and some random guy that just waited to get the last hit now kills that enemy and gets all points while he has done almost nothing. With this solution, this wont be the case anymore.

 

 

I hope these ideas get attention from the devs and will lead to more teamplay and less campers and killstealers.

 

 

Greetz,

 

AmmokK

I onestly dont mind kill stealing, its a team game and you should work as a team to ge tthe kill and atleast you get an assist, What they should do tho is lowering the assist for if you have a command module on whitch doesnt effect the allies dmg to the enemy like a repair…

18

AmmokK if these changes are but into place only the players getting kills will archive any real EXP how do you suggest the players that are not so good or new advance in the game if all the kills and assists are done by better players???

players that generally archive many kills do so because they are supported by a frigate continuously healing their hull and replenishing their shields or fighters buffing resistance to all damage with Aegis module or buffing damage with the Valkyrie module

never do players archive many kills alone with no support so these campers as you put it deserve the 60 point assist as for kill stealing who cares other then your self AmmokK .

 

it seems these changes are only ment to help AmmokK or is this just another famous rant from AmmokK that sounds good to you but never to anyone else .

 

placing so few points on anyone other then the players that archive the kills is a ridiculous idea it will mean only they advance to higher ranks while rest are left behind next suggestion please AmmokK but this time less rant more constructive help

19

Hay Hay HAY people please Cool down…and stop this insulting and attacking each other …i find all ideas have good points and bad points and MUST be discused further But in a little Softer ton pls

So to kill stealing …

i know iam one of these people …

but hay ive been here a long time and most of the items on my ship are purple …ie MORE damage which means in end- effect.

Even if some one has done all the work on the sheilds and i start helping …iam going to get the kill most of the time…

i think its just a fact in any game the people who have played the longest have the biggest and best guns…if theres a system that alows this …ie(looting rare items at the end of a winning match)

and as to the issue of campers just buffing and getting points …

well buffing is also very inportant …but to make top 3 in the list is also to much/High

top 5-6 ok…it is a very important job and can get evpensive

but there must be a healthy balance between both and a frigate in the front lines buffing and fighting should get a lot more points than a frigate camping some where doing nothing but buffing

20

Again sorry I disagree the point system only seems to affect money amounts at the end of a fight. so where is the problem ??

 

if you want to combat Campers or Bots then create a system that ejects players from the fight if they have been inactive for more then 2 mins and by inactive I mean movement or lack of the be more precise.

 

if you implement a system where only players getting kills are advancing in rank and rep to higher levels you may as well turn off the servers no one will play if only good players can advance im afraid only about 20-25% of players on a server of 100k + players are really good rest are average and the players like AmmokK that want to implement changes just to suit good players are in need of a reality check this maybe a game for us but is a business for the people creating it and needs to cater to all players. Affecting how players advance depending on skill is a sure way to kill said business.

 

the reward system is fine as it is. other thinks like the balancing could use more attention try making suggestions on that.

 

look at it this way … If its not broke don’t fix it