Remove squad restrictions after 4 minutes in queue

Stop spamming dots James. Seriously.

Arguing Sector Conquest is for competitive players misses the fact that not all competitive players want to fly T5. Some can’t fly it yet. Same for T4.

Vets want unrestricted access to T3 because it is well balanced and it’s quite easy to get a blue or purple build compared to higher tiers. You can also get good sized games there without much of a wait.

Plus, T3 has all the content. People who invested hundreds in DLC want to use those ships. Telling them they can only use that content in casual solo play is hardly fair to them.

Stop spamming dots James. Seriously.

 

He is just deleting his posts in the only way he can.

People who invested hundreds in DLC want to use those ships.

 

Good point

 

Very good point.

What about removing the restriction on T4/5 only so average players won’t be affected?

 

The games are so small in t4/5 (3v3 up to about 7v7) this would be a bad idea. +1/-1 could work but removing restrictions altogether would not work. For some reason there are a lot of new players playing t4 and t5 (200 games or less) instead of progressing through t1/2/3

The games are so small in t4/5 (3v3 up to about 7v7) this would be a bad idea. +1/-1 could work but removing restrictions altogether would not work. For some reason there are a lot of new players playing t4 and t5 (200 games or less) instead of progressing through t1/2/3

 

I disagree.

 

I’d like T5 - and T5 only - to be less strict about squad matchup, especially after a long wait time.

 

±1 could already be turned on on T4, maybe even T3 at low times, but T5 should definitely have even less restrictive play. I do really and absolutely not care about casuals in T5 and neither should anyone else. If they are “casual”, they should stay in the tiers before that. T4 and T5 should be increasingly competitive, and especially T5 should not be about “Okay I have the ship, lets play”

 

Atm. T5 is worse than T3, in every aspect. The R13 implants make the game a winners game, which deteriorates with bad teams, people bring less than 3 ships, even if all T5 players should have actually four slots already, you see T2’s and T3’s all the time in the hands of players who do not bring it for a challenge, but to synergize it. Even people, who write in the forums, that “all is fine!” disconnect frequently from games.

And there is some romantic notion, that T4 “is most balanced”, and was “great” for the two weeks or so, where it was populated. Hardly a timeperiod you could call enough to actually talk about balance imho, but well, lets not lose focus.

 

Let’s recap the past a bit in context. Death Squads were unfair, because they were fully purple and organized T5 players who were mixed into T4 games back then, and could upgrade their ships immediately after the release, because they had stockpiled resources. Since then, multiple times, the MM was changed back and forth between tier mixing. It has been finally established, that players do not want tiers mixed. But it cost us a lot of hardcore players on the way, who gave up this game, because they became tired of that.

In the early days, there was no squad restriction, and T3 was working fine with it. Actually it was thriving. However, 4-squads were restricted to premium users. As soon as this was abolished, and T5 was opened, and the death squad misery happened, squad restrictions were enforced over all tiers.

So if we listen to the past, I am not sure, what we really should listen to. T3 worked fine with squads mixed in into random games back then. T4 was abandoned, because nobody really wanted the tier mix games, and T4 was a long time mixed with T5. Finally T3 fell into darkness, as it was tier mixed yet again with T4 if you got Rank 9’s.

 

All these mistakes together make it really hard to really “learn from the past” imho, by simply listening to problems stated back then.

 

I still blame transparency. If the matchmaking would allow people to see what is going on overall in the game, if there are squads in certain techs, squadplay would be rewarded by better income etc., things, imho, would slowly get better. But all these modifications would also need to keep in mind what we really learned from those days.

 

Atm. T5 games are small, because a lot of players who *could* play there do not do so. There is almost no chance to get a game with full squads. Chances are, that you are more boiling by rage if you see what randoms you get, who seem not even to understand to turn on engineer modules, or bring T2 engis into the game. T5 does not retain the endgame population atm.

So this creates a feedback loop: games stay small, because nobody really enjoys the matches in T5 long enough. Squads are not built up, so many hardcore players do not even come online if they do not have friends playing, and if they come, they wait in the queue, or only come for sec con.

 

I think, sometimes you need to make a cut, and it hurts, but then the wound heals. Exactly because of that, I’d say, what Error stated is a good idea.

I disagree.

 

I’d like T5 - and T5 only - to be less strict about squad matchup, especially after a long wait time.

 

You would like to face a 4 man squad in a 5v5 game with your random team mates? I wouldn’t :smiley: remember this is skirmish and not sector conquest. Anything more than +1/-1 would kill these tiers I think for the random majority

Yes, if it brings back those players, I only see online for Sec Con or Sweep nowadays, I would endure it bravely.

The random majority should first try to learn to play in earlier tiers, before they f’up T5. I consider myself just about worthy to be in T5, but I have to endure morons there, who would even make a T2 pilot of the old days laugh. T5 is simply not fun. And that’s why nobody plays skirmish there.

 

It’s not like there aren’t enough players who actually would have ships.

 

We would field two squads ourselves to ensure some good games, but the MM even needs you to cheat around the corp restriction. So there are just myriads of small problems that lead up to the great fail. Being afraid to make some chirurgy on T5 won’t heal it.

 

Anyway, T5 Queues could also be separated by Ranks, so early T5 players get more mixed small random games, and only occasionally a squad. As the proposition was in the thread, the restrictions should only fall away slowly after longer waiting times. This should ensure, that not every game is randoms vs. squads, and squads should still be prefered to match up. This is how other games do it, they don’t care either, and nobody whines about endgame unfairness there. I mean come on, it’s T5. It’s supposed to be hard, not casual.

 

Maybe it would also do good for T4, so players who want higher rewards can go T4. If T5 and T4 would have similar payouts, that would even be more awesome.

Anyway, Sector Sweep is also a nice addition besides… So when I think about your counterpoints, and also the problem of people who actually just want to level up T5…

 

one thing i think we can all agree upon however, there is something to be done somehow :smiley:

I vote on remove the squad restrictions totally in T4-T5, but I also like to restrict to bring at least 4 R10 ships, like in SQ.
If we can filter out the aces from endgame we won’t have problems with random team mates.

Or if we let the 1 ship aces to play, pls don’t give at least realistic battles, and don’t let them use the T1-T2 ships in T5.

I know the invasion force the players to rush to T5 asap with one ship, the only problem is if they come to PvP, and without practice they try to use the invasion ship + the other T1-T2 ships.

I like the sector sweep, but the SQ is boring to me. Always the same gamemode…

Also I don’t see how the same squad size make the game fair. In the last 2 days in T3 we get several 3 squads against us. they had no chance at all. The MM should balance the games, better. I see some improvements, but still far from perfect.
Just because the same amount of players squad up and play, that is not meaning the game will be balance.

I would like to get a rate button after each match where we can rate the balance of the match. Maybe that info can be useful to improve the MM.

Suggestion:

  • agains a squad, try to send same amount of randoms who have each other as friends if possible.

I would like to get a rate button after each match where we can rate the balance of the match. Maybe that info can be useful to improve the MM.

 

This is a very nice idea!

Btw. my solution would be the next, for all Tiers:
pro_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png

If the Pro mode is on, give the players more income but put them against squads too. Try to face the pro users agains each other, but without squad restriction.
This would be like the safe undock at invasion. (sorry about the terrible layout.)

Btw. my solution would be the next, for all Tiers:

pro_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png

If the Pro mode is on, give the players more income but put them against squads too. Try to face the pro users agains each other, but without squad restriction.

This would be like the safe undock at invasion. (sorry about the terrible layout.)

 

Very smart idea.

However, 10% more income reward is not good enough to actually trigger the desired psychological effect on players.

 

I propose this one for Professional mode:

[+25% more credits, loyalty vouchers and synergy boost]

 

Again, +1 for the idea, Gizmomac.

I would be happy with +25% but the reward is depend on the SC team. for me +10% loyalty or free synergy would be enough. (I would turn it on for free too :D)
Also I would be happy if this button can be just available over 0.8-1.0 win/loss to prevent the constantly losers to feed in the “pro” games.
 

I would like to get a rate button after each match where we can rate the balance of the match. Maybe that info can be useful to improve the MM.

 

oh yes, i think this was already proposed once, and i love it. this would give the devs some feedback about what games had good quality.

especially if there are positive feedbacks from both groups (winners and losers) it should say much.

 

Also I would be happy if this button can be just available over 0.8-1.0 win/loss to prevent the constantly losers to feed in the “pro” games.

0.8 is okay i think, since that still means you lose a bit more than win, which is quite fair and rather easy to accomplish.

 

T4 should still have squad mm with ±1 i think, so i think T5 should be the one to change, however the pro mode could work from T3 on…

T5 should not allow unsynergized T1-T3 ships and have 4 ships minimum, i keep repeating that anyway.

I would be happy with +25% but the reward is depend on the SC team. for me +10% loyalty or free synergy would be enough. (I would turn it on for free too :D)

Also I would be happy if this button can be just available over 0.8-1.0 win/loss to prevent the constantly losers to feed in the “pro” games.

 

 

You honestly think that someone that is grinding like hell will play without + 10% income? 

How cute you are Gizmo :stuck_out_tongue:

The problem with the pro queue idea is you’re dividing a player base that is already quite low, and already being divided by periodical bouts of Sector Conquest. Unless you extend it down to T3 as well, it could do more harm than good.

You honestly think that someone that is grinding like hell will play without + 10% income? 

How cute you are Gizmo :stuck_out_tongue:

That is not a problem. That is just means for them, they’ll can get “less balanced” games.

If they want the +10% they have to risk they’ll face with randoms against full squad.

And if they can’t performe well against them, they possibly get less income with the +10% than they go without the Pro. And after they lost enough they can’t get the pro flag.

Maybe this will motivate them to improve themself.

 

The problem with the pro queue idea is you’re dividing a player base that is already quite low, and already being divided by periodical bouts of Sector Conquest. Unless you extend it down to T3 as well, it could do more harm than good.

No no no. Nobody said this will be a different queue. Example if we have 2x4 squad at T5 the MM can fill the game with extra 4-4 not pro player.

With the pro flag u just agree, u are ready risk some stats and get harder, maybe a bit imba games too. This is why I think the 10% can be enough because this not means u’ll get nightmare games only u just accept a risk you’ll maybe get it.

So if a normal or pro 4 squad sitting in queue maybe they’ll get 4 pro agains them or a 2pro squad + 2pro solo

But it would have to be two queues, otherwise non-pro randoms could be matched against squads, which they presumably wouldn’t want.

no the pro means, they get into the lesser team, without squad or the smaller squad or sth.

 

so you “increase your risk” facing unfair teams, giving the MM more room to match up.

 

However, what Sponge mentioned, that everybody just is going to click that checkbox just to get the rewards is still worth considering…

No point splitting the playerbase into two queues… You will just drastically increase queue times.