They are often so, but here he presents a mildly accurate point. I suggest you read through each of his 500 word posts very carefully. XD
They are often so, but here he presents a mildly accurate point. I suggest you read through each of his 500 word posts very carefully. XD
I did
I get you guys want to get tier rushers out of the higher tiers, but this feature is going to keep everyone out of high tiers who isn’t already there.
Don’t be so ridiculous.
No, he’s right. It does exactly nothing about the already existing tier-rushers, and it does punish newbies for wanting to specialise in specific shiproles. If I was forced to fly Jerry Guards/Empire Gunships or any of their inties back when I started, I wouldn’t be here now.
So for that reason alone, +1 to OP, from a high-end player.
But the problem of tier-rushing needs to be addressed, as I hate such guys to the core myself. MisterShai, as someone still new to the game, would you find it fair if one had to have played a certain amount of matches to be able to play PvP? E.g. 500 matches required to start playing R8+, 750 for r11+ and, say, 1000 for r13+? Not going to argue for the exact numbers, but they should be relatively high, as there are people in T4/T5 who don’t even know what objectives they are to follow in some game modes.
Plus, this solution could work retroactively, finally ridding high tiers of this nonsense once and for all - or at least until the newbs in question have finally learnt the game in lower tiers, where they actually stand a chance of contributing to their teams.
I really hate grinding, myself. Well, I enjoy working for synergy on ships that I enjoy, but that’s because it’s enjoyable to fly ships that I like. Flying around open space in a ship that goes 700 m/s, being forced to outrun and outcloak my enemies with ten times the tank and twice the firepower I do – is not quite as enjoyable. Just the same, playing with the same ships and people again and again to grind for currency is just as boring. For each bottleneck that forces a player to do one of these things lest s/he never be able to progress again, the game loses a number of players who would rather play a different game than be bored out of their minds.
So yeah, the ship purchase requirement – basically yet another early game credit bottleneck – is dumb. But I mean, I can see where the folks who wanted such a change would come from. I hate tier rushers, too. When I was first getting into T5, I had no way of carrying a game, simply because the tier rushers would just lose any gains I made. And at this point in time, it’s still hard to carry some teams, just due to the sheer amount of feeding that tier rushers do. I can’t imagine that losing again and again is very fun for them, either, so preventing tier rushing ought to be something that is better for both sides of the equation.
Personally, I think the best solution would be requiring some small fleet strength requirements to buy ships of a certain rank. Credits are easily the most valuable currency in T1 and T2, so requiring people to buy loads of ships is a great way to bottleneck players into being forced to grind PvE hundreds of times (low payouts suck, yo). On the other hand, it’s almost impossible to avoid gaining fleet strength in the early game, and it’s quite easy to get a reasonable amount by just following three or four different ship lines (meaning frignubs can fly frigates to their hearts’ content, never having to so much as touch anything but the beginning fighters and frigates). The place where getting fleet strength becomes difficult is T3, which is reasonable, since that’s where a good deal of the playerbase is, and where a lot of experience should be gotten before moving on to the “late game” tiers of T4 and T5.
I mean, for reference, just two days ago I was talking to someone in the English general chat who thought that NASA’s minimum requirement of 500 PvP battles was a surefire way of never getting applications, because only the most veteran of veterans could ever have that many battles! Just goes to show how scattered most people’s conception of “normal progression” really is.
Can someone explain it to me how does it work? For example - “to get X ship, you have to synergize ship Y AND Z”, cause to be honest I don’t see it in game. To me it still looks like “to get X ship, you have to synergize ship Y OR Z”
From my point(can’t login due different PC): I saw that I need x more ships to reach T3, y more ships to reach T4 and z more ships to reach T5.
I think I read the number of 28 ships to have the ability to progress into T5, if you don’t have this number of ships, you can’t buy R13+ ships - even having them unlocked.
So you seem to level 2/3 or even 3/4 of ALL ships to progress within a faction. EACH faction does have the x amount of ships to unlock the next tierstep of ships-requirement. So no shared amount.
I can give a more detailed report in the evening.
Go back to the old level system and remove squad restrictions. When new players hit T3 they’ll be forced to learn teamwork to advance any further. Players who want to be lone wolves can stay in tier 2.
It worked in the beta, back when every match was 16 per side and queues were tiny. It’ll work now.
the t3 gauntlet made t3 a non-nub-tier, but it made t5 grumpies sad they had to wait.
now many of those last t3 gauntlet players reached t5, so the grumpies realize, t3 actually made them good players, and the less time players spent in t3, the more horrible they were in t5, where the ships do allow you to become much more dangerous, and skill difference therefore is much faster “visible” by that giant explosion you leave behind.
same problem with squads. mm has been modified with squad restrictions over the years, while most of the '13 players and before had free queues with non-stop squads, and a squad limit only limited by premium license, so that sometimes games were horribly unfair, and sometimes, extremely fun.
i can’t totally blame the devs, as the shortsightedness of some crying on the forum has contributed to the mess we have today.
now i can understand if you like a particular set of ships, and only go to t5 with them. but in t3, the old t3, you were obligated to unlock ALL R9 ships, since every single one of them had a role, as did most R8 ships, and GS ships. so lets not be delusional about that part, the old system did not help you play only a few ships, it forced you to learn all in t3, since otherwise financially, you could not even dream about reaching a good t5 position.
and not just because there was no t4 for years.
but its also nomenclature, since with old you probably meant the previous one, which we had now for years.
problem is, these new restrictions are invisible to us who already have all ships, so it is hard to say if you are right or not. if it came with an easement in progression, i would say, take it, as sooner or later, you will realize, you want to unlock all ships until the end anyway. really. i never thought i will fly anything else then CO, or ceptors, then i settled with engi frigs, but in the end, i spend most of my time nowadays in fighters, and came to realize that 90% of the ships from T3 on forward are really cool. However, I do understand your frustration in this part. However, consider also the problem, that you have a lot of players in T5, who unlocked all their ships with pve, and started pvp in t5. Engis which cycled their heals nonstop etc. lead to changes in those module systems, thats how horrible it was.
A dedicated farming player, who is more interested into unlocking the ships, than actually learning them and playing them well, will always leave statistics, you, as a player interested in learning the skill and ships, not just progressing, can only dream about, and give the impression, the progression is too fast or fast enough. This is usually the main reason, why mmos get harder in this over time.
I can only guess, that this new system was introduced to prevent tier rushing, but probably only should be present from R10 forward. Too bad that actually wont help your cause with the R11, so you probably dont like my opinion about it being actually helpful. However, mind, that at the same time, I constantly say, that the game is not rewarding enough for the system to work, no matter how they change it.
Also I would only do like 1-2 ships of previous rank / per rank, max, not increase it since there is no need for increasing this, as the shiptree itself makes it increase exponentially if you progress too fast by itself.
In the end, it is also a mindset problem, since the game itself presents progression as one of the main gameplay aspects, instead of focusing on team and social features, which get reduced. Without the understanding, that the progression of games like this just simply never work (and kills WoT, and will kill warthunder) over long periods of time, if you keep the player focused on progression. the game teaches the players, that progression is more important, than experience. therefore its a grindy and bad experience system, so at least there we can all agree. both new and old system.
if you keep the player focused on progression. the game teaches the players, that progression is more important, than experience. therefore its a grindy and bad experience system, so at least there we can all agree. both new and old system.
So true.
@op-We all had to fly ships we don’t want. And now there are ships we like that we are not supposed to fly anymore because no one wants our rabble (well, for me it wouldn’t matter because I’m not good enough)in the lower ranks. Either way it’s not fun. You have to work hard for ships you don’t want and I have to ignore ships I like so I don’t ruin your experience.
Private initially admitted he did not know what your new requirements are and asked you what they were so we could better understand and have a discussion as to the validity of your argument. He then stated
his thoughts from his perspective. It was then up to you to explain what and where the new requirements are having the affect. We were all new and I have no doubt that other players would like to see everyone’s
progression smooth and pleasant (except for the getting blown up part) Many here have the added advantage of seeing multiple previous versions and what worked or didn’t before. Believe me no one wants to lock anyone out of the higher ranks. We just want to make sure you’re prepared and you stay when you get there.
Okay I was mistaken. It even require ships for EVERY rank, not tier.
Here some screenshots:
Empire (12 Ships)
Jericho (10 Ships)
I need for:
Empire/Jericho
R9 +2
R10 +2 +4
R11 +4 +6
R12 +6 +8
R13 +8 +10
R14 +11 +13
R15 +16 +18
Makes also:
R9 12
R10 14
R11 16
R12 18
R13 20
R14 23
R15 28
Ships.
Mhmmm. See how insanely terrible this is?
I agree, there should be something done about Tier rushing. It’s a problem in tiers other than T5 also. But the solution should not be restricting everyone elses experience. Someone else mentioned an idea that I personally think would alleviate a lot of the problems. If they lifted the two man squad restrictions for pvp and encouraged teamwork and grouping, it would allow players in higher tiers to squad up and at least have a fighting chance at carrying the occasional rusher. Anything other than weighing down the ship acquisition system. I know it’s not a cover all treatment, but it’s a start, not to mention there are a lot of folks who would enjoy being able to roll into pvp with more than one knowledgeable wingmen.
But the problem of tier-rushing needs to be addressed, as I hate such guys to the core myself. MisterShai, as someone still new to the game, would you find it fair if one had to have played a certain amount of matches to be able to play PvP? E.g. 500 matches required to start playing R8+, 750 for r11+ and, say, 1000 for r13+? Not going to argue for the exact numbers, but they should be relatively high, as there are people in T4/T5 who don’t even know what objectives they are to follow in some game modes.
Plus, this solution could work retroactively, finally ridding high tiers of this nonsense once and for all - or at least until the newbs in question have finally learnt the game in lower tiers, where they actually stand a chance of contributing to their teams.
No a bad idea at all, but I can imagine the sh*t storm when players can’t play Tier x anymore until they reach the quota.
Personally, I think the best solution would be requiring some small fleet strength requirements to buy ships of a certain rank. Credits are easily the most valuable currency in T1 and T2, so requiring people to buy loads of ships is a great way to bottleneck players into being forced to grind PvE hundreds of times (low payouts suck, yo). On the other hand, it’s almost impossible to avoid gaining fleet strength in the early game, and it’s quite easy to get a reasonable amount by just following three or four different ship lines (meaning frignubs can fly frigates to their hearts’ content, never having to so much as touch anything but the beginning fighters and frigates). The place where getting fleet strength becomes difficult is T3, which is reasonable, since that’s where a good deal of the playerbase is, and where a lot of experience should be gotten before moving on to the “late game” tiers of T4 and T5.
Fleet strength may be a good alternative too, that would give the players some choice, but I think we need to avoid players only playing 1 class, e.g. Cov Ops, as in the higher tiers you need a few different classes to counter different situations/game modes.
Okay I was mistaken. It even require ships for EVERY rank, not tier.
I need for:
Empire/Jericho
R9 +2
R10 +2 +4
R11 +4 +6
R12 +6 +8
R13 +8 +10
R14 +11 +13
R15 +16 +18
Makes also:
R9 12
R10 14
R11 16
R12 18
R13 20
R14 23
R15 28
Ships.
Cheers for the info, at least we now know what the deal is. So you need 28 ships to get to R15, 46 ships in the Fed tree, so you need a bit over half of them to get to R15. So if you didn’t like Inties you could totally skip them and just fly the fighters and frigates (total of 31 ships). If you buy all the T1 and T2 ships, which are cheap and quick to level you would already be half way to reaching the 28. Quite a few options there, it’s not like you have to get every ship that would be rubbish. I wouldn’t say it’s an outrageous amount to get and level, though maybe it could be lowered a little.
On a side note and this is probably a knock on affect from the lack of squads, but when I first got to T3 I got my xxxx handed to me a lot. It was a steep learning curve, yet a good one. You would see players using certain ships in an awesome why, and that inspired me to try them out too. So I think I easily hit the this current ship quota way before hitting R15. In fact I spent a long time in T3 learning the game, then when I got pretty reasonable I moved on. I did have a T4 ship during that time, but that was for flying between stations for free. Too many people just want to progress, yet never actually learn the game.