removal of teamwork in T5 - 2 player squad waiting times

41

I still think that leagues are pretty good for playing with skilled friends.

 

Leagues aren’t bad, they can be very fun matches, but I can usually only get 1 hour a day of team play if i’m lucky, i.e. we have enough team members on and/or I don’t have work the next day (the time most of us are on is midnight for me). But I can only play with a 8 different people with this. I can’t just log in chat to my corp to form a squad and have fun.

 

About 2 men squads, they are still OP against solo players, that’s why we can’t let them queue with others. Extremely low amount of them shows that not so many people want to play squads in random pvp now.

 

A couple of points here. Firstly most people don’t queue for squads now is because queue times have been notoriously bad since the changes, so no one really queues anymore, a catch 22 situation :frowning:

 

2 man squads may be OP when played in the lower tiers/vs newbies but the OP is on about T5, the endgame as such, and most matches seem to be large enough to accomodate 2 man squads without them being OP. Also, do you not take into consideration that new players might actually want to play with their mates? Not being able to play with friends is a big big turn off for a lot of people. At the moment they can’t play PvP together until they either reach R11 and do leagues or join a corp at r7+ to play dreads, both of which are quite a way off for new players, and less than ideal for casual play.

 

A more complicated MM system will increase the queue times by a lot. The current league system is something like a seperated queue for squads where players have to focus on team play.

 

How would an improved MM increase queue times? the queue times for squads are already long enough lol! And the current league system is not like a seperate queue, it is an event that happens at certain times of the day.

 

I still think that leagues are pretty good for playing with skilled friends.

 

As I said earlier, it is not bad, but very restrictive, only 8 other people to choose from, only at set times of the day, and only 1 game mode. We want to be able to log in at any of day and play with friends/corp mates.

 

One of the problems now i see, is that the games are short, and MM desides which team should win. No skill is involved anymore - maybe some players is getting more kills, but overall this game is turning into a “roll-the-dice” randomized game.

About squads:

I loved getting my xxxx kicked by ESB squads, I loved getting beat by ImInUrBase killsquads! You wanna know why? because we got better every time we played them, and learned how to counter the better players, and when we finally beat those squads now and then and more often, it was awesome!!! That is the tension provided by squad play, and to be honest, as a random joining player it is amazing to be a part of those battles! Some of them turned truly legendary.

Every damn fight now is just… meh - 6 minutes, farm, money, grind… MM decides who will win. No teamwork, no amazing battles. 

Also it was a great way of motivation people to play. When squads were there, corp chat was full of messages, as people were playing together, sitting on teamspeak etc. Now there is close to none socializing, and teamspeakchannels are empty.

As soon as you bring back a nice way to play with my friends i will probably return playing, buy ships, get license etc. But this casualminded direction the game is heading is unfortunately not something for me.

SteveBallmer

 

 

This.

 

So there are a lot of things to consider, and not allowing squads at any tier is not a good idea imo. New players will want to play with their mates and can’t. Vets want to play with mates and are currently restricted. Newbies don’t want to be farmed by vet kill squads in lower tiers. Vets can’t team up and train newbies. Surely we can come up with a solution to this.

 

We now have the rank system, why can’t this be incorporated into how MM handles squads? What if all players have some sort ‘squad rating’ for each tier/rank, and once that passes a certain threshold then that squad would face ships of higher rank to make it more challenging and stop them farming. If it was below the threshold then they would play at the proper tier so it should not affect new player squads. The squad rating could be based off an average of all squads members ‘squad rating’ or based on the player with the highest.

 

As far as T5 goes there should be no such restrictions, as at tier 5 you should not be a newbie anymore, this is the endgame area. If players insist on tier rushing then tough, it’s the same in any other game.

42

Regarding squads.

 

2 man can unbalance a game in lower ranks(Around old T3). I wont mention names as its irrelevant but one match I saw an adaptive guard running beacon to beacon with short range heavy blasters killing everyone he came across with his teammate disabling any opposition to the guard in an ecm. Totally carried their team without ever capping a beacon in a beacon domination game.

A simple tactic and easily counterable, however when nobody in your team including the squad that is there to oppose them has any counter in their lineup then that is what a predetermined outcome looks like.

That kind of thing does not fly in higher ranks and this squad knew this, not through lack of squads but the desire for the easy win did they drop down. As have many others in the past so I totally understand why squads are restricted here, the unbalance between people who are squadding at this level is brutally evident in games like this.

 

However.

There needs to be something for proper sized squads to do at the higher ranks.

There is no T5 dreadnoughts.

Game mode itself is borken, glad to hear its being reworked - Worth a mention that its the players again who wasted 50% of this game mode with the fakes ect.

There are no regular T4/5 Tournaments.

Only T2/3 and the wait time is so long. I cant tell the difference between waiting in Q and T2 tbh its soooooo slow.

The leagues are so restrictive.

Does not seem to be any point in loyalty to a particular team or banner, you go where the games are, so teams are a little irrelevant, its the same game mode over and over, little diversity.

Highest ranks are still restricted with squadding.

Why? its ‘end-game’ ppl should dry their eyes.

 

I’m all for protecting the new guys from nonsense that so many are lamenting the loss of, but there does need to be something in its place and at the moment there is nothing.

43

some time ago when I entered T3 it was full of 3-4 man squads(mostly 2 of those per team) with OP fully synergized Styxes and no1 complained, games were fast and fun.

now… it’s either awesome campfest or one sided recon/cruise rush in games w/o squads >> so fun…

 

#TheDotOfHate.

44

 You and other guys always complain about to less players in game, so how should we be able to keep players in game when they would be farmed until rage quitting by squads?

There will always be rage-quitting in any game. Don’t be afraid of that. Believe in the game you are providing.

 

Yes we want more players, but  of course not through changing the game. 

 

‘too few players’ was a much smaller problem than broken PvP and coop is now.

 

Instead of trying to keep people playing the game by making it less hardcore (aka cool), Instead focus on getting more people to play your game. You are making economic strategies based on scarcity instead of prosperity. If you make a good game, people will automatically recommend it to their friends.

 

I was trying to get my brothers and classmates to play it, but now i can’t really recommend it anymore. I wanna motivate and help new players in chat and welcome them. But now I can’t invite a bunch of them into a squad and really show them how fun it can be.

 

So you played/enjoyed playing the game for many hours, but still think it is a negative game? From your wording it sounds like a threat in regards of spreading negative advertisement and in this means further discussions cannot be held.

Of course? It will happen even without intent. You break a game, people will, instead of liking it and talking good about it/recommending it, they will dislike it and not recommend it. What else would you expect?

 

Sadly, I very much like the game because i want to and have hopes…

 

I wanna help you, but you have got to listen to your players. Even if we are 10% of the game, for new players to one day beat us or join us is your true ‘endgame achievement’.

 

We are the 10 % who recruit your new pilots, write reviews, make videos, talk to new players, guides, builds…

 

You have free content creators for your game. Leverage your resources. “bird-in-the-hand principle” . And make a business strategy that shows you believing in the game being good. Not based on fear.

45

I know squads had some issues, but at least let us play squads in tier 5?

SteveBallmer

 

Or give players the choice to play with or without squads and make everyone happy.

46

It’s not what star conflict needs, it’s desires of a small group of vets. 

 

What am I suppose to make of this? That I as a veteran, “invested” money in a game foolishly thinking that PVP squadding was a feature that would not be removed - since it was a big part of the game and has been for YEARS - made the wrong call? Did I expect too much? Or did you simply changed the concept? You see, when I have been buying preium I always thought it was a good decision, since I loved the game’s mechanics and especially the part where you have the option to squad up for PVP - I mean I really thought this was a core aspect to the game - was I wrong? For 2 years? I just want to know, because, I feel confused in this - fooled, even. Furthermore - what is this suppose to mean in a wider perspective - “dont get too good, coz you will upset new players and they will leave” or “dont buy preium licence to speed up the progress, coz you will only hit the dead end sooner” ? I am just curious, what am I suppose to make of this? Do I not have a place in your game anymore, for simply expecting that you would KEEP a game feature that’s been there for years, and whining about a very weak end-game concept? 

In other words you want us to leave - we grumpy veterans who simply wants to play the game with friends like we used to do for years. I mean what was the meaning of buying premium then, if it only proved to be a shortcut to my own doom ingame? What was it for me? What is the point of trying to be the best you can, with best possible gear/equippment and fully levelled ships, trying in any way you can to remove so many factors that can be a disadvantage to you; we still have to rely on skill and wits, even if the latter one is a factor that is less important know considering the short PVP battle times you are not given a chance to close a point gap even if your team is capable of doing so but simply because time ran out and this is also giving us messages like; “Dont bother about thinking or calculating, just play, you cant carry a team anyway” which further brings me to another point - you can STILL be pretty screwed over as a 2Man squad, if you are the “stronger” team you get punished with headless chickens as a team - and they can totally throw the game for you even though you yourself and your squadmate has 0 deaths but are on top of leaderboard, in a team battle of 8-12, that doesnt need to have an impact, coz the more people - the less control you have over the situation. 

But in any way, my point is, did I expect too much thinking that Star Conflict would keep this core feature, pvp squadding, after have been doing so for years? Why now? Why now, this change? Why is this a problem “now” (read; since the not so old update where you removed +2man squad option) - Why were PVP squads not OP before this??? Why didnt you change it in open BETA?

But yeah, I get it, you want money that’s fair, what is not fair IMO is that I even after spending money, thinking it would open up more possibilities - more ships better gear to choose among, instead, I am restricted. I cannot go T3 coz it is considering “no0bfarming” and I really dont but still think its sad that I cannot use my desert eagle as often as I would like, instead I should stay put in T5 - which is fine if ONLY there was more freedom in endgame T5.

 

League is a step in the right direction, dont get me wrong, it can be great fun - but then again, it is only open for a short time 3 times a day, and it is also only ONE battle mode. Increasing the 4man to 5 was a good call.****

47

my 2cts ^^

 

yes , a 2 man squad can be OP when in T5 its a 5vs5 players or a 4vs4

don’t forget many veterans are on Corp with TS , they can easely focus target and objectif

 

until there’s more people playing on T5 its a good way to secure new comers on this tier

Teamplay its also playing with others players and not only with our squad :slight_smile:

48

*snip*

 

This.

 

Your logic about all of this is completely irrational and downright dumb. I’m sorry, but if you want more people to start playing your game, this is not how you do it. Squadding is an aspect of a game that encourages people to start playing it in the first place. If you really want more players, the only way to do that is advertisement, which you haven’t done any of outside of having the game featured on steam on the Steam release back in late Feb/early March of 2013. And that worked. Your influx of players was tremendous following that feature, as thousands of people joined the game.

 

Why can’t you learn from the past, and understand that you are going about this all wrong?

49

Squadding is an aspect of a game that encourages people to start playing it in the first place. 

If it is so encouraging why we have extremely low number of squads in random PvP now?

50

my 2cts ^^

 

yes , a 2 man squad can be OP when in T5 its a 5vs5 players or a 4vs4

don’t forget many veterans are on Corp with TS , they can easely focus target and objectif

 

until there’s more people playing on T5 its a good way to secure new comers on this tier

Teamplay its also playing with others players and not only with our squad :slight_smile:

 

So little pvp games in t5 happens only for few hours a day, from CET 9am to -> 3am usually games are 8vs8 and up.

There’s a lot of people playing t5, like was t3 one year ago. The only time it’s not full is when American prime time is on.

 

But there’s another huge flaw in your statement: “on T5 its a good way to secure new comers on this tier”.

How can be someone considered a new comer if that tier is “end game”? Which game out there is so “newcomers friendly” for it’s main content? Name one game that is like that.

Yep you could “buy” your way trough end game, like majority of other games, but that’s your own decision. A bad one, and that should not be encouraged. 'Cause when this kind of player will get their xxxx kicked they will rage quit probably.

 

As i said many times “real money” in game on line (free to play scheme): come from “addiction”.

Wasting potential of the game (trying to give to the “end game” a nab friendly environment) just to avoid that a guy that brought a mauler or a spark and went straight from t1 ships to t5 will leave: 'cause he can’t win one or just understand what’s going on before he got clubbed: is not at all rewarding as strategy to take money.

Those player should be left to their decisions, they will never become “addicted” and will never spend more money than the original expense.

 

Let me repeat this: I do agree lower tiers should be nab friendly, without farming squad. But end game content is totally different matter.

51

If it is so encouraging why we have extremely low number of squads in random PvP now?

 

'cause squadding now is pointless. People got addicted from: click “launch” and play. Also game started by squad are less populated.

I’ve tried to form 2 squads with leaders from different corps and it works (otherwise you can end up waiting forever), still too much work to do.

52

If it is so encouraging why we have extremely low number of squads in random PvP now?

2 reasons:

  1. A big part of the playerbase left the game after the updates in november december.!

 

  1. Because people are not even trying to squad, because the queue times is +10 minutes (At least) - people get scared away of the queue, and dont do it more than once. People are instead trying to press queue at the same time (splitting group up) , after waiting 10 minutes.

So how i see it, is that people has tried to queue as a squad many times, but didn’t get a game, and then stopped doing it. You learn by your mistakes right? 

How to fix this?

10-20 % extra synergy or standards when playing in squads… ( you need to get people to play squads again - doesn’t have to be a permanent bonus. Its just to get people in there again, to lower the queue times)

Or

Let 2 man squads play against teams with no squads

Or

Join games as a group!

By this i mean, that you gather players and join the games together, which means you are playing with friends as teammates AND enemies. It is good fun, and better than nothing. 

Right now people who want to play together are trying to queue at the same time, but sometimes they end up in different games… Bummer…

As some people have already mentioned:

Your core-players are the ones paying, making youtube videos, getting friends to play!!!

I tried to make my friends to join:

  • I gave him a t2 premium to get him started. Queue… Wait 15 minutes… No game… Queue one by one… we got in different games… My friend stopped playing after a couple of games as we couldn’t play together. 

You do have a problem i know, because squads did provide some issues as well, but i think you will have to deal with this problem another way - you cant fix a problem with just removing core features in a game. Its like hiding the dirty dishes under your bed - you will have to deal with it sooner or later.

My main point is:

If you have a nice social environment in a game, you will have an active community, which is about the best advertising you will get, as these players will get new players to join, make youtube videos, write nice steam reviews etc.

This game has so much potential, why are there so few players? Something is being done the wrong way.

SteveBallmer

53

After reading this topic, the tears and Q.Q, I come to one conclusion:

Technically it seem possible for you devs, to make ‘additional modi’ like you did with the current happening daily T2 tournament. Why you don’t try a squad-pvp on one weekday for a few hours/multiple times(at best on peak times for different server populations) to see the actual numbers of wanted squadplayers(and to bring the fun to them again)? Then you could remove your ‘balance teams to have equal number of squads/squadplayer’ and EVERYONE would know what they await in those squad-pvp-hours/times and noone can come and blame ‘Q.Q my team had no squad but the enemy ones had’.

You can see it as question if it’s possible/as a suggestion to the topic critic.

54

when i said newcomers , its all pilots with ships at rank 13 ^^

atm there’s many veterans with ships at rank 15 with mk4 and mk5 .

 

i can imagine a dog fight , a player with a ship r13 vs a man squad with ship r15 mk4+mk5

 

in other way , there’s also this big feature :slight_smile:

create a personnal pvp T5 , so why now there’s less personnal pvp …?

 

to be clear i’m 100% for squad on T5 but until devs improve matchmaking or fix some minors bugs there’s a plenty way to play together

…

 

But there’s another huge flaw in your statement: “on T5 its a good way to secure new comers on this tier”.

How can be someone considered a new comer if that tier is “end game”? Which game out there is so “newcomers friendly” for it’s main content? Name one game that is like that.

…

55

If it is so encouraging why we have extremely low number of squads in random PvP now?

 

Set up squad, wait in queue for 10 minutes, give up. It’s a catch 22 atm.

56

My main point is:

If you have a nice social environment in a game, you will have an active community, which is about the best advertising you will get, as these players will get new players to join, make youtube videos, write nice steam reviews etc.

This game has so much potential, why are there so few players? Something is being done the wrong way.

SteveBallmer

 

^^

57

when i said newcomers , its all pilots with ships at rank 13 ^^

atm there’s many veterans with ships at rank 15 with mk4 and mk5 .

i can imagine a dog fight , a player with a ship r13 vs a man squad with ship r15

t5 newcomers can use t4 modules on their ships.

rank 13 ships are as good/better then some rank 15…Grey Falcon,Viking,Mauler,

58

If it is so encouraging why we have extremely low number of squads in random PvP now?

*breaks one of your bike’s wheels*

‘If riding bikes is so awesome, why aren’t you riding it?’

59

*breaks one of your bike’s wheels*

‘If riding bikes is so awesome, why aren’t you riding it?’

Wrong example, I wrote about 2 men squads only, no one intentionally cut their number. If more players want to play together this situation won’t happen. I’m not happy about it, but it’s a fact.

60

If more players want to play together this situation won’t happen. I’m not happy about it, but it’s a fact.

A lot of people want to play in squads but no one knows when there is an enemy squad in queue.

To fix this simply make an option to see if there is other squads in queue,not how many squads are in queue but if there is any.

Example:

Squads in queue t5=yes

Squads in queue t4=no