random suggestions

posted from 0.9.3 patch discussion thread for reference:

 

 

lol, so 650 effective pickup and drop, should be more like 400 :wink: especially if you pickup the bomb as someone else dropped it hehe.

 

averaging 3-4 kills a game, 5-6 assists, one bomb pickup+drop trumps that all… considering you don’t even need much skill to pull it off… just sit behind your teammate doing all of the work… ;p

 

if you pickup and drop all 3 bombs, you net 3 times the points of the person who defended you and allowed you to cap… meanwhile doing nothing… that’s excessive…

 

maybe 100 for pickup, 300 for plant.

 

No.

 

Given the importance of planting the bomb in a match where the sole objective is to plant 3 times, the score gained from doing so is entirely acceptable. If anything, you’re not rewarded enough for trying at the moment and it punishes people too much with a hit on their DSR if they don’t succeed to plant.

 

This is why you see many people who outright don’t pick up any bombs at all.

No.

 

Given the importance of planting the bomb in a match where the sole objective is to plant 3 times, the score gained from doing so is entirely acceptable. If anything, you’re not rewarded enough for trying at the moment and it punishes people too much with a hit on their DSR if they don’t succeed to plant.

 

This is why you see many people who outright don’t pick up any bombs at all.

 

so let’s do the math: planting 3 bombs: 1950 points… getting 19 kills? 1900 points… 24 damage assists? 1920, 32 buff assists? 1920…

 

oh wait, but we already know buff assists are OP, so by that same token it appears that bombs are too…

 

even taking an average of 4 kills, 8 assists per game, that’s 860 points… not even half of what you can get by screwing around with bombs…

 

you’d have to average 8 kills, 16 assists per game… how much skill does that take compared to hogging and dropping 3 bombs?

 

especially since sometime, the enemy doesn’t even bother reacting to it…

 

so there’s incentive to hog the bomb from your teammates to get these points… in fact, the incentive is overwhelming…

 

and doesn’t encourage teamwork. it encourages selfishness.

 

which seems to be the running theme with the way points are awarded.

 

plus, who cares about DSR… DSR is based on the rank/tier you play in… you can’t kill a T4 1500 DSR player in a T3 for example consistently… in fact, T4s being the top tier most of the day except a few hours have the advantage over everyone else, which is how they obtain their DSR.

 

you will find that T1 starts about 900 DSR. T2 1100 DSR. T3 1300 DSR, etc… T4 1500 DSR… the only exception is obviously kill farming: people who sit back, dont help and only killsteal then run away so they don’t die.

 

DSR is not only a mostly useless stat, it’s just another one of those things the creates the wrong perception among users and rewards poor teamplay.

so there’s incentive to hog the bomb from your teammates to get these points… in fact, the incentive is overwhelming…

 

and doesn’t encourage teamwork. it encourages selfishness.

 

which seems to be the running theme with the way points are awarded,.

And you want to reduce bomb plant and beacon capture points so the game gets turned into a shooter?.. This just gets better and better…

And you want to reduce bomb plant and beacon capture points so the game gets turned into a shooter?.. This just gets better and better…

 

why would it turn into a shooter? you still have to plant the bomb 3 times to win… it would just be a team effort instead of 1 guy getting all the points though… since that one guy can’t possibly do it on his own… unless… hacks? or american action movie?

I disagree. If anything the incentive to run bombs isn’t large enough at the moment.

 

Getting 8 kills actually doesn’t require that much skill in a detonation match, nor is 1950 points all that hard to achieve in most detonation matches even if you don’t touch a single bomb.

actually, getting 8 kills and 16 assists requires considerably more skill than picking up and dropping 3 bombs if the entire map is clear of enemies thanks to your wonderful teammates who are getting ripped off…

 

the most i can agree with is 400. 100 pickup, 300 plant.

 

that’s 1200 points in a game, or equal to 5 kills, 10 assists.

 

you should get kills+assists on top of pickup+plants.

 

so everything is equal, and the game mode becomes more team oriented.

 

also, pickups should probably only grant a bonus after 5-10 seconds of holding the bomb instead. because picking it up just to die 5 seconds later accomplishes nothing.

 

 

G4. make buff/debuff assists 50 points, damage assists 100, kills 130, beacon caps 200. currently leading to improper rewards for poor gameplay. less beacon and assist farming… detonation bomb pickups 100, bomb plant 300.

G5. grant bomb pickup rewards only after 5-10seconds of holding the bomb, since holding it for 5 seconds only to die instantly is counter-productive, but an easy farm for some people who prefer not to work for kills instead.

 

there, i amended the original post.

If someone actually managed to run three bombs and plant them - they deserve the points.

 

It means the rest of the team was doing very little, or was unable to plant for whatever reason. Remember that there are two bombs - there shouldn’t really be a reason why one person planted all three bombs in the first place.

or it could mean they were a recon. in any case, the enemy can hold the second bomb…

 

i’m only taking a relative comparison of what bomb-running and actually contributing to team damage/kills net in a game…

 

everything else is irrelevant.

 

plus, your ability to run the bombs is heavily dependent on your team’s ability to kill the enemy fast enough before they kill you (for which they get no points i might add), or the lack of the enemy’s ability to defend their own beacons properly. the latter of which shouldn’t be used as an argument.

 

edit: it could also mean they were a pre-made squad abusing nuke+ecm spam in detonation to efficiency farm.

 

what about dropping bombs and picking them up again? does that count? 1. drop 2. pickup 3. profit aka farm points? maybe we need to remove 100 points for dropping a bomb, making it unprofitable. and providing a drawback: drop the bomb and live or keep the points.

You continuously forget the main point here - bomb-running is the objective and they are actually contributing to their team.

 

The bomb carrier is under incredible focus of the opposing team, it’s a risky undertaking and as such should be rewarded.

 

There is nothing wrong with that and I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. You are trying to make an argument that someone carrying out the main objective isn’t sufficiently contributing to their team, which is a rather ill-informed and strange statement to make. I really do have moments from time to time when I am not sure if you’re just trolling or just don’t understand the game.

 

:facepalm:

no, you’re continuously missing the main point here:

 

bomb running is more than just running the bomb… it’s about controlling the map so you can run the bomb in the first place.

 

plus, i don’t see HOW the bomb carrier is under focus if you’re doing it properly and he is sitting behind a squad of men escorting him to the objective…

 

otherwise all your efforts will be in vain if the enemy has 5 extra players on the map compared to you. you won’t get within 10km of a station, or the bomb pickup.

 

‘solo capping’ just doesn’t work vs a kill disadvantage… it only works when your team has a kills advantage… because they can just send 3-4 men at you and their front line still won’t even blink…

I won the match for the team, I earned those points.

post-242375-0-22792900-1378133908.jpg

I won the match for the team, I earned those points.

 

lol. bot game? must have lasted a whole 3 minutes ;p

 

were they flying guards and you were flying ecm? ah yes, spirit, the prem ecm.

 

lol 211k credits and 5.5k synergy for 3 bomb plants is hilarious ;p

 

same reward bonus as a styx however, which i average 150k creds and 13k synergy on. with premium+DLC. and that’s with all of the buff assists getting almost 3000 efficiency per match, or more.

 

so bombs affect credits disproportionately compared to synergy? or do bot games affect that? are credits tied to game duration in any way?

 

i notice sometimes i can get the same amount of synergy on the same ship, ie: styx, yet have a higher credit count… presumably due to battle duration, or some combination of kills/assists.

A1: It’s fine to me, but yes, it does need something better.

A2: There’s already that for every role.

A3: Unnecessary.

A4: The problem here lies between the keyboard and the chair. More specifically, keyboard modifier keys. Alt+Shift act as keyboard switches, so to speak. You should check your keyboard options to remove that.

A5: It’s fine as is, because that map isn’t linked with your ship. So moving isn’t something you should be doing on it, anyway.

A6: Non-DLC Premium ships always have the same stats of the top Rank ship (R 6/9/12) of the same roll on that faction. Compare Neuron with Machete-S, Strong with Katana-S, Blade of Aressa with Swift Mk3, etc, etc…

A7: That’s what they call “Turret Rotation Speed”. You should read up on that.

 

B1: In that light, COs shouldn’t be able to do it when their cloak is active, either. Nor Tacklers in cloak. Nor LRFs in cloak. And so forth…

B2: It’s already been done. The last “rebalance” cut away half their utility. They’re as balanced as they get.

B3: 3 disables. Stasis Generator, Ion Emitter and Metastasis Field Generator. Energy Absorber is fine as is.

 

C1: White Noise should be on ECM, seeing as it is exactly that.

C2: 2-3 Guards? Please… One is more than enough.

C3: No. Nukes are a valid weapon and act as Area Denial wherever they’re shot. you want to prevent that? Fly a Guard or kill the CO before the nuke is dropped.

 

D1: Imperial Disintegrator is only OP in T1 where it can 1-shot everything. In T2, if you fit a single tank module, you survive safely. Then again, if you got caught by it, you weren’t doing much as a Ceptor.

 

E1: They really don’t. If they have any more range, it’s already game-breaking. They can effectively nuke Ceptors in their range, why would you give them more weapons to kill Ceptors with?

 

F1: EM Torpedoes need to be given an audio warning, that is all.

F2: I’ve been fighting tooth and nail against this timer reset. You know the answers we’ve been given? “It’s working as intended.”

F3: There is ALWAYS a Vocal Missile Warning unless it’s an unguided missile. There is an Audio Missile Warning (beep, beep, beep, beep) whenever a Raid Torpedo is heading your way. There is NO warning of any kind when it’s an unguided missile. I’ll agree that there needs to be a warning for the EM Torpedo, but that’s it.

 

G1: Torpedo damage is fine. If you don’t veer away from it, you deserved to die. This is why Frigates have more hp and exactly why you should NOT fly in a ball.

G2: This will be the SOLE thing I ever agree with you. Mostly because I’ve been talking about it since 8.0 and the fact that Ceptors get insta-healed to max if they’re close enough.

G4: No.  Buff/Debuff assists are fine, Damage assists are fine, Kill points are fine, Beacon caps/Station kills are fine. If anything, the system you’re offering gives way to kill-farming and that is NOT what you should do in a match. Killing people should be your assist to victory, not how you win every damned thing. Personally, I don’t want this game to be any more dumbed down than it already is. But hey, don’t listen to the veterans, who cares what they say, right?..

 

H1: MM does not balance. Period. End of discussion.

H2: It was far worse in the past. FAR worse.

 

I1: They really don’t. They are ALL at the same relative range from the spawn points (give or take a few dozen meters due to warp-in spawn).

I2: No. If you can’t defend your captain, you’re doing it wrong.

I3: Is the bomb visible to you? Do you see a blue icon on the bomb? Or blue range finders on them? No? You see red!? That’s an enemy. Kill it.

 

J1: No. The killview already gives you that.

J2: … no. Occam’s Razor.

 

K1: Synergy grind is long, hard and screwed up. End of discussion.

K2: Experimentals REALLY don’t need to be available on the market, they REALLY don’t. At all. They do need a slightly higher drop chance.

K3: Contracts really do not need to reward failure. If anything, failing to complete them actually spurs you into trying harder to complete them. I don’t know how it works inside your mind, but that’s what happens in a regular person’s mind.

K4: Welcome to Tier 1, where your choices are 1 module. T1 ships have zero slots for anything, you barely have the room for anythign other than your single role module, let alone anything able to kill stuff.

K5: Meh… Any person with half a brain soon realizes that they don’t need to pay to get the extra Synergy. Those games just move so fast and Synergy is earned so fast, it’s not even possible for them to spend cash.

 

L1: NOT WITH THE CURRENT MATCHMAKING, YOU WON’T!!

L2: There’s a reason the game’s called “Pay to Grind Less”.

L3: Ship prices are fine, what bothers me and everyone else is paying for the modules in higher Tiers… That’s what turns this from a “Pay to Grind Less” into a “Grind or Have Greys For The Rest of Your Life”.

L4: There is currently three ways to “buy” Synergy: GS (includes both License and Synergy transfer), Ammo and Premium Ships (that includes DLC). It’s NOT a confusing system, it’s an unnecessary system. License is all you should ever need for this.

L5: Premium Ships are worthless. End of discussion. Even if they set the Free gain at 100%, people would still xxxxx about it.

L6: Premium weapons cost the exact same as Mk3 variants. And getting Experimental modules with the 30% loot chance is what’s broken because it’s not really 30%, it’s more around 3% or something, iirc.

L7: No because those ships aren’t that hard to kill.

L8: That just means that buying Premium modules is pretty much worthless because they are, as it says on the game’s tin: “Pay to Grind Less”.

Here’s the other screenshot.  Full teams on both sides who just ignored me.  The only reason I got a debuf assist is I hadn’t yet noticed that the bomb was being ignored.  The match is from a couple months ago.

 

post-242375-0-89114400-1378134475.jpg

Here’s the other screenshot.  Full teams on both sides who just ignored me.  The only reason I got a debuf assist is I hadn’t yet noticed that the bomb was being ignored.  The match is from a couple months ago.

 

haha nice, but they should have been paying more attention ;p wtf its goonsquad? lmao… 3:28 seconds, as suspected ;p

plus, i don’t see HOW the bomb carrier is under focus if you’re doing it properly and he is sitting behind a squad of men escorting him to the objective…

 

If you’re not focussing the bomb carrier, you’re doing it wrong.

 

Regardless whether or not he/she has 1, 2, 3 or 11 people escorting him/her - he/she should still be the primary target.

 

Whilst I don’t disagree that the game is about control of the map - the manner in which you wish to reduce rewards for people running the bomb is outright ludicrous. The rest of the team already gets sufficiently rewarded for farming kills and clearing the way.

 

It would be nice if the game recognised an ‘assist-plant’ - but that’s a different matter altogether and a suggestion that was already made quite some time ago.

haha nice, but they should have been paying more attention ;p wtf its goonsquad? lmao… 3:28 seconds, as suspected ;p

HOLY ****! HACKER!!!

3.28 SECONDS? HOLY ****!!!

 

You meant minutes :stuck_out_tongue:

A4: The problem here lies between the keyboard and the chair. More specifically, keyboard modifier keys. Alt+Shift act as keyboard switches, so to speak. You should check your keyboard options to remove that.

A5: It’s fine as is, because that map isn’t linked with your ship. So moving isn’t something you should be doing on it, anyway.

A6: Non-DLC Premium ships always have the same stats of the top Rank ship (R 6/9/12) of the same roll on that faction. Compare Neuron with Machete-S, Strong with Katana-S, Blade of Aressa with Swift Mk3, etc, etc…

A7: That’s what they call “Turret Rotation Speed”. You should read up on that.

 

B1: In that light, COs shouldn’t be able to do it when their cloak is active, either. Nor Tacklers in cloak. Nor LRFs in cloak. And so forth…

C1: White Noise should be on ECM, seeing as it is exactly that.

C2: 2-3 Guards? Please… One is more than enough.

 

D1: Imperial Disintegrator is only OP in T1 where it can 1-shot everything. In T2, if you fit a single tank module, you survive safely. Then again, if you got caught by it, you weren’t doing much as a Ceptor.

 

E1: They really don’t. If they have any more range, it’s already game-breaking. They can effectively nuke Ceptors in their range, why would you give them more weapons to kill Ceptors with?

 

F2: I’ve been fighting tooth and nail against this timer reset. You know the answers we’ve been given? “It’s working as intended.”

F3: There is ALWAYS a Vocal Missile Warning unless it’s an unguided missile. There is an Audio Missile Warning (beep, beep, beep, beep) whenever a Raid Torpedo is heading your way. There is NO warning of any kind when it’s an unguided missile. I’ll agree that there needs to be a warning for the EM Torpedo, but that’s it.

 

G4: No.  Buff/Debuff assists are fine, Damage assists are fine, Kill points are fine, Beacon caps/Station kills are fine. If anything, the system you’re offering gives way to kill-farming and that is NOT what you should do in a match. Killing people should be your assist to victory, not how you win every damned thing. Personally, I don’t want this game to be any more dumbed down than it already is. But hey, don’t listen to the veterans, who cares what they say, right?..

 

I1: They really don’t. They are ALL at the same relative range from the spawn points (give or take a few dozen meters due to warp-in spawn).

I2: No. If you can’t defend your captain, you’re doing it wrong.

 

J1: No. The killview already gives you that.

J2: … no. Occam’s Razor.

 

K2: Experimentals REALLY don’t need to be available on the market, they REALLY don’t. At all. They do need a slightly higher drop chance.

 

L1: NOT WITH THE CURRENT MATCHMAKING, YOU WON’T!!

L2: There’s a reason the game’s called “Pay to Grind Less”.

L3: Ship prices are fine, what bothers me and everyone else is paying for the modules in higher Tiers… That’s what turns this from a “Pay to Grind Less” into a “Grind or Have Greys For The Rest of Your Life”.

L6: Premium weapons cost the exact same as Mk3 variants. And getting Experimental modules with the 30% loot chance is what’s broken because it’s not really 30%, it’s more around 3% or something, iirc.

L8: That just means that buying Premium modules is pretty much worthless because they are, as it says on the game’s tin: “Pay to Grind Less”.

 

A4. well it seems to be a problem between application and keyboard in this case since it works fine in hundreds of other titles.

A5. every other game i’ve played: no problem moving while having the map open. star conflict: huge deal…

A6. no they don’t katana type s and strong for example. speed is lower, survivability higher. maybe you found a few that did.

A7. it’s not about what it’s called. it’s about how it works in conjunction with the 3rd person standard controls mode.

 

B1. CO can cap with camo active? thought they couldn’t… maybe activating camo just breaks it then re-establishes after a few seconds? tacklers can’t cap in cloak. although camo and scattering field don’t work like cloaks… def broken then…

B2,3: inb4; already replied to.

 

C1: no, covert needs a skill to increase lockon times, so they can close the gap and do frigate runs… but it shouldn’t be a disable, it should be a penalty to lockon times instead.

C2: not if he’s dead… or… oh so i herd u like guards… i like tacklers… lulz…

 

D1: actually, i proved they’re OP in T2 before buffs, and with a 10% damage buff they’re even more so. plus, you usually don’t fit specific resists on T2s due to lack of passive slots. or ship mods for that matter.

 

E1. how can they nuke ceptors? i already told you that there’s a hard counter to speed debuffs: r8 implant and flares, which you should have on most inties. plus, ecm can disable the tackler, covert can camo to get some relief, and WNJ them, not to mention covert shouldn’t get caught in the first place unless they get out of cover or drop their camo… recon can cloak or shield drain the tackler if they close. fighters can outdps, and should also carry flares, command can survive, other tacklers are just a tit-for-tat…

 

F2. actually the last answer i saw on the missile reset problem was: we are aware and looking into it.

F3. that warning still won’t help you within 500-1000m…

 

G4. no it’s not kill farming… it’s called controlling the game… and the current rewards are disproportionate to that end… anyways, inb4; not re-iterating.

 

I1. no they’re not. some maps contain glaring examples that favor one side over the other. distances may be similar to spawns, but cover is not the same, and distance between beacons favoring one side are not the same.

I2. it’s not even about defending the captain… maybe he’s just doing it wrong. why should your team be punished for that without a chance to retaliate? makes no sense… or it could just be a lucky shot, never to be repeated again… every other mode requires consecutive success: beacon hunt, cap, det, dom = 3 beacons… you have to prove yourself more than once basically. also, it makes no difference any way you look at it. inb4; it’s like a vip mode. doesn’t matter how many times you kill the vip, the objective is the same: defend the vip, or kill the vip…

 

J1. no, the killview shows you a ship graphic/icon, not the 3d model :\ and the  target view barely allows you to see details as large as a refrigerator… not like we have any of those on our ships, but some empire ships look like they might.

J2. well the occam’s razor states that flares cannot possible work in space and that targetting systems would be more advanced than simply InfraRed…

 

K2. nope. RNG doesn’t belong in competitive games.

 

L1. strange. earning about 150k per battle, about 5-6 minutes on average, that’s about 1.5-1.8 million… even at 10 minutes per battle, that’s still 900k in an hour. at 8 minutes = 1.125mil. and that’s about on par with what i make per hour. repair/resupply costs on average 20k per battle for me. so 800k for 8 min battles, 1.4-1.7 mil for 5-6 min battles.

L2. you mean: pay MORE to grind less.

L3. so here you agree with the RNG experimental grind problem, but somewhere above you disagreed. facepalm ;p prem ship prices are not fine. i’ve never heard of a single item going for 12$ or 24, or 48$… (well, except monocles, which got some heat for that) not even LoL champs cost 12$… most are like 5-6$, 8, 10… etc… some are 15. themes are some 20-30$ from what i remember, and only people with deep pockets buy those.

L6. actually, my GS experimental salvage rate is 5/9 (55.6%)… probability… sucks, doesn’t it?.. but my credits salvage rate for experimentals is 4/80 (5%) exactly on the spot…

L8. indeed, premium modules are pretty much worthless due to their price point.

Guys I say: ignore his topic, he clearly isn’t up for discussion and only thinks his mind is the right one.

If you’re not focussing the bomb carrier, you’re doing it wrong.

 

Regardless whether or not he/she has 1, 2, 3 or 11 people escorting him/her - he/she should still be the primary target.

 

Whilst I don’t disagree that the game is about control of the map - the manner in which you wish to reduce rewards for people running the bomb is outright ludicrous. The rest of the team already gets sufficiently rewarded for farming kills and clearing the way.

 

It would be nice if the game recognised an ‘assist-plant’ - but that’s a different matter altogether and a suggestion that was already made quite some time ago.

 

you’re wasting time focusing the carrier then, since if it’s me i will troll the living daylights out of you, wasting all of your dps while my team cleans up the mess you’re making of yourself. skill required? not much… just awareness of your surroundings and the ability to hide behind stuff basically… a little active module magic, and voila. but above all: the abilities of your team to clean the mess up.

 

but this shouldn’t be used as an argument in favor of ‘the bomb is important’… because it is essentially the enemy’s fault for throwing themselves at you, and nothing really based on your skill level to any degree.

 

and the primary target isn’t the bomb. the primary target is the flank that is overextending to escort the bomb, if you focus the bomb, the enemy will slowly disable and kill all of your units, or enough of them to allow the bomb clear passage to the station. the bomb only becomes the primary target once it’s already within 10km of a station on your side of the map or overextending, or otherwise in a position to be killed without getting yourself killed in the process.

 

uh, the reductions i proposed are offset by increases in other rewards, which should lead to more focused teamplay instead of mindless farming. nothing else…

 

if you’re concerned about your prospects as a ‘bomb-carrier’, maybe you should look into another field of work, like killing a few units in our off-time, or maybe just retiring from space flight…