Question to the Devs - Exact Purpose of Engineers?.

Ships
41

11 minutes ago, Progenitor2 said:

Give me a GOOD reason why a R15 Engineer frigate should NOT be able to outheal the dmg from a fighter…

because a fighter is a damage dealer, if you could outheal a gunship, you can outheal almost everything

the victim can have survival modules to help him survive damage

multiple engineers can heal, or other dynamic impacts, like positioning, cover, etc.

and because some of us were still there, when heals were uber strong and it resulted in non stop back and forth games

and that did not feel fair or fun at all.

 

i am not saying that some engineers could not need some buffs tho, as i do play them all a lot, and not just talking about a role i never actually touch

however almost all of them above rank 8 have their specific usecases and strengths.

 

and i repeat, the brokk is probably the ship you are looking for, it can severely outheal incoming damage.

 

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7 hours ago, Progenitor2 said:

… Sounds like a great ship… Especially the part where you have do dodge enemy fire in a slow and not so agile frigate,

when all fighters does frigate-level damage and moves around without issues.

I think you are right to some point and in some regards, but every one, who answered you is also right. There are more than 1 or 2 variables that effect the balance of healers like the engineer frigates.

#1 take the case that experienced players could misuse a very powerful healer in a team that would come out nearly invincible (like the combo of Brokk and Tyrant/Vigilant) - asking for even more powerful healers is a thing many might not want, because they experienced such strong (Russian) teamplay in Leagues etc. already.

#2 take the case that an old silver or golden engineer played solo-style (open space) is very vulnerable (and slow and lacks dps, etc…)

#3 take the case that we will probably see more variants of the Brokk, Waz’Got, Phoenix and Styx after the rework of SC v1.5.x Journey.

Most engineer frigates have very decent speed and hull/shields, so that is why they lack the weapon power (dps) of the fighter class and their agility, and the interceptors were designed to be their  arch-enemies, so they are very vulnerable against kill attempts from single interceptor pilots. Feeling one cannot do anything against them is a very very frustrating experience. Thanks to the Devs we have the Waz’Got now, which is the only engineer frigate that makes me happy (again, outside real team play that is, because its rare these days).

 

38 minutes ago, Original_Taz said:

 

He does have a point … DPS has tripled in the last year and every weapon type now has a 200 meter AOE field but the eclipse has not changed in 5 years… edit it got more time to heat 3-4 months ago … but the 350 heal is older than 95% of the main weapons in pvp now … and don’t get me started on Ariadne’s thread… DON’T TAKE AN ENGINEER THERE !!!

Yes I feel so, too, he has a point, but that is only one side of the medallion. Frigate:Engineer rework is coming up and we have to wait, what the next patches will bring us in regard for the subclass of engineers. Hopefully better weaponry, better missile-slot loads, and better defensive active modules (against interceptors).

 

34 minutes ago, Cr0 said:

 

Repairs have been increased too, but for some reason you don’t want to talk about the wazgot and brokk.

Winning a 1v1 is about damage, not healing.

The strength of engineers comes from filling up hull on ships after combat and has nothing to do with winning a 1v1 against a tackler.

He arguing from the viewpoint of pure balance. He’s like saying : ok the engineer has more hull but is slower and has also 4 main gun turrets, so its lack of maneuverability and its bigger frame making him an easy target for even grandma piloting the fighter, the engineer should withstand in a 1on1 because it has its healing ability.

 But that’s the point: other ships can heal themselves, too, only the engineers can heal others. In a 1on1 its abilities as a healer are not important, so Cr0 is right. But his point raised still is not addressed: why are old silver/prem. engineers so weak in any 1v1 – take intys, fighters, dessys, you name them…

 

43

25 minutes ago, g4borg said:

…

and i repeat, the brokk is probably the ship you are looking for, it can severely outheal incoming damage.

 

Right, but I got a sense that Progenitor2’s talking more of solo style play. And in this case the Brokk would be boring for him to play and in open space the Brokk is not reliable survivable. I would recomend him to stay in t3 and test Valor, Styx, Phoenix. Maybe this way he would get happier?

44

39 minutes ago, John161 said:

I would like to see that list in which EVERY weapon does have 200 meter AOE.

 

[‘Dag’tnith’ Launcher 17][‘Sk’Rah’ Launcher 17][Thi’Lith Beam 17] that’s the short list … 200-1000 meter AOE remember i said damage type  not  main weapon … but  AOE in main weapons is  more prominent now than a year ago

45

7 minutes ago, Original_Taz said:

 

[‘Dag’tnith’ Launcher 17][‘Sk’Rah’ Launcher 17][Thi’Lith Beam 17] that’s the short list … 200-1000 meter AOE remember i said damage type  not  main weapon … but  AOE in main weapons is  more prominent now than a year ago

actually you said weapon type, which would need a definition first. And these are all new weapons, why should the Eclipse Launcher change because of them, the Railgun is also nearly as it used to be 5 years ago

46

1 hour ago, Progenitor2 said:

Give me a GOOD reason why a R15 Engineer frigate should NOT be able to outheal the dmg from a fighter…

 

You can evade plain dps and projectiles can miss. I’d like to see somebody dodging a 5km range healing aura.

47

51 minutes ago, John161 said:

The dmg didn’t get tripled at all

Ariadne’s thread , Demoman in FS and Defense Contract  the EM turrets on top of the cruiser … all the new  weapons  that were released in the last patch … ect. ect.

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1 minute ago, Original_Taz said:

Ariadne’s thread , Demoman in FS and Defense Contract  the EM turrets on top of the cruiser … all the new  weapons  that were released in the last patch … ect. ect.

 That is not player damage.

49

3 minutes ago, John161 said:

actually you said weapon type, which would need a definition first. And these are all new weapons, why should the Eclipse Launcher change because of them, the Railgun is also nearly as it used to be 5 years ago

 

learn the game terms  … damage type  = thermal , kinetic and electromagnetic … and now crash damage is  a valid damage type as well

50

1 hour ago, Progenitor2 said:

I just want to know HOW i can keep my team alive

1

You are not supposed to keep them alive, you are supposed to give them more freedom in their action, alleviating their limits and in combat time, and giving them more room to take care of themselves.

 

1 hour ago, Progenitor2 said:

and HOW i can stop having my Maxed out R15 Repair frigate annihilated by a single fighter in 3 seconds.

1

I am sure you already know that not everything is at the same power level in any given time due to meta changes, and Imho  T-Rex is not really that good for random PvP, while Octopus is much better, you should get Minotaur / Naga or even WazGot (which may be problematic to farm quickly, yet it is possible to obtain for free)

 

51

3 minutes ago, Flash0914 said:

That is not player damage.

 

this game has  PVP , PVE , Co-Op and Open Space  … these are all valid damage sources to be healed I’m sure that Progenitor2 plays more than just PVP

 

52

Just now, Original_Taz said:

 

this game has  PVP , PVE , Co-Op and Open Space  … these are all valid damage sources to be healed I’m sure that Progenitor2 plays more than just PVP

 

Coop is purely about dmg

PvE is about PvE and self-sustain

Open Space can be separated into various subtypes too

PvP can be split into a lot of various categories, based on game mode-map, ranks, leagues, Dreads etc

 

Pretty much all classes have modes where they are not that great, be it build based on in general

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Which is why you should be an all rounder, it doesn’t hurt to excel in one category but you shouldn’t focus on one role only.

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it actually helps a lot to be successful with interceptors and fighters to play fed engies tbh

grizzlies are an excellent starting point for an aggressive build

but you wont be healing much

55

On 03/01/2018 at 8:28 PM, xKostyan said:

if he is doing dumb stuff, and face tanks lolol everything, there is no way YOU can keep HIM alive. 

lol this is me and Kurdi

56

12 minutes ago, g4borg said:

it actually helps a lot to be successful with interceptors and fighters to play fed engies tbh

 

How do you know this? Ur b@d engie

57

4 hours ago, Progenitor2 said:

Give me a GOOD reason why a R15 Engineer frigate should NOT be able to outheal the dmg from a* fighter…

*one fighter

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Star Conflict Dev Logic - Give players an Engineership to build that costs 3x more then a destroyer,  yet can be killed by a single fghter that costs no resources

and can be bought for a few million credits.

Just the fact that after 6 years they’re still unable to properly balance fighters vs frigates and properly tune fighterdmg.

59

1 hour ago, Progenitor2 said:

Star Conflict Dev Logic - Give players an Engineership to build that costs 3x more then a destroyer,  yet can be killed by a single fghter that costs no resources

and can be bought for a few million credits.

Just the fact that after 6 years they’re still unable to properly balance fighters vs frigates and properly tune fighterdmg.

New balance suggestion:

 

Ships should only be able to be killed by more expensive ships.

60

1 hour ago, Scar6 said:

New balance suggestion:

 

Ships should only be able to be killed by more expensive ships.

 

If an Engineer that costs huge amounts of rare resources and time, can easily get destroyed and have its repair easily negated by even the most basic

and cheap fighter, then there is no point crafting the engineer for any player - because you gain nothing from it… you’re still just as easily killed.

 

The sole reason why i would spend time and vast amount of resources on an Engineer, is if it’s survivability and ability to support the team

is worth the resources and time spend farming for them.    I know people who’s spent 6+ months farming for R14 dessies, how fun you think

it is when you do that and a single Recon that requires nothing special at all, can just annihilate them ?.

 

Time and resources spend, should be rewarded. An Engineer like the Octopus should have such high healing that a single fighter CANT kill it.