Question to the Devs - Exact Purpose of Engineers?.

 

First … Keep the Waz, Brokk and any other P2W ship out of this thread, they don’t count.


 

Now…   What position exactly did you intend for the Engineer-class of ships to fill in group combat ?.

We all know it’s not keeping people alive by repairs, and it’s not damage because there are ships at far less ranks that can easily outdps an Engineer.

and despite some Engineer-ships mysteriously having a damagebonus as synergy (makes absolutely no sense) they don’t come close to even a gunship fighter.

 

For the last few days i’ve been really trying to wrap my head around what makes and engineer a strong healer and groupsupport, and despite talking to several

veterals of the game, i still can’t see any indication of what the devs actually inteded with this ship.   I’ve been piloting a T-rex with full crewset towards support

and R4 modules with 3300 capasitor and almost 300 E-regen…     My repairweapon repairs for absolutely nothing, it’s easily outdamaged by even the smallest ship,

and in every game i’ve played, despite blowing all my healing+popping my drones, it cannot match the damage from the most basic ship.

 

With the energybonus on my modules, they should repair for a whooping 12k dmg over 6 seconds, and even the smallest ship with a R4 weapon will easily

outdamage 12k repairs over 6 seconds.

 

If you took a R14 maxed repairgun and tried to outrepair the damage on a friend that was being done from a startingship, you’d fail miserable.

I’ve had a 1v1 with tacklers, Recons and Interceptors and they burn through all repairs instantly, making every module a complete waste of time to rankup.

 

So i’m asking the devs, what EXACTLY is the intended purpose of the Engineer-ships !?,

because they can’t keep anyone alive that’s even under the smallst amount of enemy fire.

 

And judging by the video you made about the Engineer-class, it couldn’t be further away from the truth and current state of the Engineer-class as a whole.

 

So you want to outperform dmg dealt to ship with your heals? That’s broken, m8.

firstly, if you pick up an engineer and expect to be able to just make an ally immortal, you are doing it wrong, the engineers can extend the lifespan of their teammates, not forever though.

 

if you are really having trouble with a build try these:

 

-Sapper build

equip this engineer with mines, a long range weapon, repair stations, and maybe deployable cover, with this engineer you can defend a position quite well, and act as a healing nest for your teammates, once again, as an engineer you will not be constantly keeping your teammates alive, if they need health they will come to you for it, you will heal between engagements

 

-Front-line support build

eclipse launcher or waz’dum are the preferred weapons for this setup, along with a lot of healing auras, and some serious capacitor bonuses, with this setup you will be able to heal as well as possible for an engineer, remember to keep with allies, the combination of team firepower and your healing will make for a terrifying frigball

 

-Brawler build

now, I HATE these engineers with a passion, they fit nowhere in my concept of the engineering objective, but i have to say that when built right they do work. for this build the user will want a weapon with heavy damage potential, waz’dum is also acceptable due to the self heal, my choice is generally the fuse blaster though as it can deal consistent/significant damage to small and large ships respectively, for this role the player will put all hull/shield slots into survivability, with engineer, capacitor, and cpu slots being put into firepower, the active modules will be auras and usually an A1MA just to pad up the damage, (Note, this role only works for imperial engineers as federation engineers don’t have the survivability for the job)

 

these are three roles that i recommend using for your engineer, (i only recommend the first two, like i said i hate brawlers with a passion)

5 hours ago, Progenitor2 said:

 

First … Keep the Waz, Brokk and any other P2W ship out of this thread, they don’t count.


 

Now…   What position exactly did you intend for the Engineer-class of ships to fill in group combat ?.

We all know it’s not keeping people alive by repairs, and it’s not damage because there are ships at far less ranks that can easily outdps an Engineer.

and despite some Engineer-ships mysteriously having a damagebonus as synergy (makes absolutely no sense) they don’t come close to even a gunship fighter.

 

For the last few days i’ve been really trying to wrap my head around what makes and engineer a strong healer and groupsupport, and despite talking to several

veterals of the game, i still can’t see any indication of what the devs actually inteded with this ship.   I’ve been piloting a T-rex with full crewset towards support

and R4 modules with 3300 capasitor and almost 300 E-regen…     My repairweapon repairs for absolutely nothing, it’s easily outdamaged by even the smallest ship,

and in every game i’ve played, despite blowing all my healing+popping my drones, it cannot match the damage from the most basic ship.

 

With the energybonus on my modules, they should repair for a whooping 12k dmg over 6 seconds, and even the smallest ship with a R4 weapon will easily

outdamage 12k repairs over 6 seconds.

 

If you took a R14 maxed repairgun and tried to outrepair the damage on a friend that was being done from a startingship, you’d fail miserable.

I’ve had a 1v1 with tacklers, Recons and Interceptors and they burn through all repairs instantly, making every module a complete waste of time to rankup.

 

So i’m asking the devs, what EXACTLY is the intended purpose of the Engineer-ships !?,

because they can’t keep anyone alive that’s even under the smallst amount of enemy fire.

 

And judging by the video you made about the Engineer-class, it couldn’t be further away from the truth and current state of the Engineer-class as a whole.

 

First and foremost you must understand that there is no such thing in star conflict as FACE TANKING, where you just sit there soaking all the dmg and not dying, aka “classic MMORPG tank”, the only ships that can do that for a very short while under some conditions are Guards (which are screwed by ECMs and Commands, disabling their temporarily “immortality”)

Everything, even destroyers MUST mitigate dmg on their own, meaning it is not only important to be able to withstand some hits, but you have to be smart enough to not take hits via positioning, like reducing amount of incoming fire from enemies by using terrain, beacons, or attempting to dodge, even frigates can dodge some fire if they move.

 

It’s a mutual responsibility of an Engineer and the Guy you are trying to support to survive if he is doing dumb stuff, and face tanks lolol everything, there is no way YOU can keep HIM alive. 

 

Watch some recordings from tournaments by better teams and see how Engineer is a crucial role in their team performance.

I fail to see how an Engineer can be a crusial build of any group due to them being so easily killed… because low repairs.

If a repairship can’t even repair the damage done by even the most simple dps-ship, then it seems to me that they are

a wasted slot that could be filled by a much more usefull ship that can kill stuff.

 

And Engineer-frigate can easily be killed in a few seconds by even a simple fighter, why bring such a broken “support”

that won’t even be able to support themselves?.

 

If i spend time to get a R15 supportship, and then additional time to get all my modules to max, all that time is pretty much

wasted when i pop all my healing and still see even the most minor damage, easily break though my healing.

 

The healing-gun is a joke to be honest, even if you fire that thing to the point of overheating, you still won’t be

able to keep anything from dying. I’ve seen a destroyer die from a single fighter eventho i was spamming my healgun,

that renders my ship utterly useless.   What’s the point of playing an Engineer then?.

 

And like the Developers said in their video, the Engineer is support to keep their team alive - which it can’t.

One more time

Engineer is NOT meant to make teams invulnerable to dmg, it is NOT some paladin or priest from WoW where you can outheal all the dmg. Engineers mostly provide a sustain and recovery to their team. 

 

So…

 

Recons are working perfectly fine with their ability to TOTALLY ANNIHILATE the largest ships in the game …

Tacklers can pretty much render you immobile or very slow for an extended period of time.

ECM fighters can render you unable to operate your modules AND target anyone for the duration of their ability.

Gunships can annihilate pretty much any ship dumb enough to stand still.

 

But Engineers, having a SEVERELY LIMITED RANGE, is nothing more then a glorified mobile refuelingship that dies from a xxxx.

Bascially anything further away then 3km gets no benefits from an Engineer, and within that range, the repairs are next to non-existant.

 

well I’m sure the Engineer was a thing to have during beta … but now  its either been nerfed or  it was just another unfinished idea by the Dev’s … wasn’t here at beta so I don’t really know … here is the build with the max heals you can get in game … This will heal more than 2800 a second  +83 passive + 384 for station +350 every 1/3 second  or  1050 per second which comes out to 12075 per firing cycle … with the cool down per enemy killed you need auto fire drones every where but you can bulk heal using everything  and get 37800 heals before a cool down happens and that’s just shields … every body gets a free project ship so this is not a  P2W ship try this build and see if it works for you …

 

screenshot-171227-082155.jpg.8289d5977c7617c0748b4cf2522871cb.jpgscreenshot-171227-082323.jpg.7e726badad3a242e865a5d8abc4d0476.jpg

43 minutes ago, Progenitor2 said:

 

So…

 

Recons are working perfectly fine with their ability to TOTALLY ANNIHILATE the largest ships in the game …

Tacklers can pretty much render you immobile or very slow for an extended period of time.

ECM fighters can render you unable to operate your modules AND target anyone for the duration of their ability.

Gunships can annihilate pretty much any ship dumb enough to stand still.

 

But Engineers, having a SEVERELY LIMITED RANGE, is nothing more then a glorified mobile refuelingship that dies from a xxxx.

Bascially anything further away then 3km gets no benefits from an Engineer, and within that range, the repairs are next to non-existant.

 

Oversimply much?

This game is not that simple. Various things can be totally useless or single handily winning a game based on a situation and ability of a player controlling that thing. 

7 minutes ago, Original_Taz said:

well I’m sure the Engineer was a thing to have during beta … but now  its either been nerfed or  it was just another unfinished idea by the Dev’s … wasn’t here at beta so I don’t really know … here is the build with the max heals you can get in game … This will heal more than 2800 a second  +83 passive + 384 for station +350 every 1/3 second  or  1050 per second which comes out to 12075 per firing cycle … with the cool down per enemy killed you need auto fire drones every where but you can bulk heal using everything  and get 37800 heals before a cool down happens and that’s just shields … every body gets a free project ship so this is not a  P2W ship try this build and see if it works for you …

 

screenshot-171227-082155.jpg.8289d5977c7617c0748b4cf2522871cb.jpgscreenshot-171227-082323.jpg.7e726badad3a242e865a5d8abc4d0476.jpg

 

All that work building that Octopus, building those modules and ranking them up to 4… and your healing is still easily countered by the most basic fighter.

Wouldn’t you want all that work to actually be worth it by giving you a useful ship able to atleast keep up with the damage from the non-dps specialized ships

like the Gunship fighter or critbuild guard?.

 

That 37k repair is most likely over the 6second duration which the Engineer-modules are active, and a basic fighter at Rank15 will easily outdmg

that over the course of 6 seconds, which means all that healing has been nullified by a single fighter.

 

I’ve had a solo non-gunship fighter turn my T-rex into a pile of scrap in a few seconds despite me popping all my repairs with a 10k bonus to my reps from my Energy.

For me the Engineers are simply the ships I like to fly the most. I got never really happy with the various types of ships in the fighter class. Not to speak of the small and swift interceptors, they are simply not for me. I do not like the sniper figates much nor the slow guard frigates. I never wanted that over-mighty kill all ship, neigther. I like the swift frigates, the Engineers and their healing drones. Girl I loved them right from the start after buying my first one, the Federation frigate Raptor. For that alone I loved Star Conflict so much, the idea that drones were flying around your ship, healing and protecting it, and even attacking an opponent in reach! That alone was a very very good design and development idea!

 

I could argue that I always had a slow CPU and a low-end graphics-card, together with average to bad ping, but that would not really tell the hole story. Some players simply hate to fly a frigate, they would call it was to fly a brick or other ugly speach against my beloved Engineers, but thats not me! Girl I like them!

 

My various engineers, then, got me through all the baby steps of Star Conflict. Together, equipped with a warp gate, we discovered all the sectors in open space, when the relationship between me and Star Conflict was young. They hade the biggest inventory storage capacity. Their ring of drones felt like a veil of valor to me, and I was sure I could help out any one in the cold and black open who would be in dire need of some energy, shields or hull, and make friends by this way.

Before I learned it that I could switch station for 80k credits I flew with a proudly bought golden premium engineer, the r12 Polus to see them all, station Mendes IX, New Haven and Guardian 17 (needed some attempts and duplicators the first time). 

In times I wanted my first destroyer I sampled rocks and containers in open space and discovered the mysterious container sites with a marvelous respwan of 60s, all with my Engineers. I used a tackler for that too, but that to me was not really flying a space ship, this was rather cowardly hiding and fleeing than proudfully exploring nearly empty space. In times I dreamed of the special project ship Octopus to have some day, because it has 3 drones. I was so proud to have it, I did my first 3-color paint job including tag on it.

 

But these days are over now, and many have their own private coming of age in SC in other ships and ship-classes, or were game-mature even far before and more quickly.

 

So what is all left? I protect destroyers of my pvp team from overconfident interceptor and fighter pilots flying in wiggling line up to them, bringing them all down. Rank 8 Phoenix and rank 15 Octopus are my favorites. I can tank in situations my comrades got themselves in the line of fire just by placing me in front of them. My engis are quick and even capture beacons from time to time. I can protect the dreadnaught and even launch an counter attack in reasonable time with my engineer. I do no longer fly into open space with them because my engineers are too slow for the aliens to outrun. They are to less tanky to withstand the bombardment of homing green fireballs in the open or behind cover, too. But today, that even is so for the once mighty destroyer class. with the formerly reasonable swift r11 Antares. Silver engineers are too less of a support in PvP because of the steadily increasing dps of all the other ships, you have a point here. But don’t underestimate them. A good Styx pilot can dominate a game and do astounding thing in a battle. Engineers are meant to support not to - as Kosty said - out heal all the damage taken in your team in a very short time. 

 

The spaceship I fly in open space, pvp and pve, now, is mostly the Ellydium frigate:engineer Waz’Got, but you suggested this ship was out of the discussion. (I call my wazzi baby Waltzing Mathilda, and that cute she is!) ![:007_2:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/007_2.png “:007_2:”)

Progenitors of Sajuuk?

i do agree that in raw healing power, standard engineers are not that strong compared to a wazgot or brokk

 

however the brokk has basicly a lot of downsides for his healing gun

still, if you search for a healer, that can pump an ally health, take the brokk.

 

now historically, healing changed a lot until we arrived at the system we have today. sometimes it was too overpowered, sometimes too weak. atm. you have many different types of healing sources, some of them may not be that useful most of the time.

what did not change is that no amount of healing will help you if the pilot of the healed vessel does not retreat in time.

 

in r15, even before brokk, wazgot or octopus even engineers had a lot to do to keep up, with the additional average mobility and damage on the field. trex and osprey were always a bit more stressful, than t3 valors or t4 grizzlies. if you want more stationary healing masters, you might also benefit from playing more mid tiers, with styx and co. but compared to the past, i think, engineers were overall more buffed, than nerfed, except the adaptive nerf hitting the feds harder. and i think the wazgot just puts a lot of engineers into the shadows, especially feds, which actually were the frontline healers.

 

don’t forget that engineers also will get their special items.

2 hours ago, Progenitor2 said:

non-dps specialized ships like the Gunship fighter

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

I just learned that the Eclipse Launcher repairs for a whooping 190dmg…

But according to the Devs video about Engineers, is a “must have” weapon.

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So…345 dmg repaired. If you fire that thing 10x and you hit every shot, you will have repaired as much damage as ONE dps does from a fighter or frigate…

or repaired aproximatly 1/5th of a frigates hull. No whonder my teammates keep dying eventho i overheat my Eclipse trying to save them…

Engineers in this game are crap but if you get a  REAL team they are a must for energy regeneration if nothing else but you MUST have a team that knows what damage type to resist if its a group of N00Bs your not going to help at all .

19 minutes ago, Progenitor2 said:

So…345 dmg repaired. If you fire that thing 10x and you hit every shot, you will have repaired as much damage as ONE dps does from a fighter or frigate…

or repaired aproximatly 1/5th of a frigates hull. No whonder my teammates keep dying eventho i overheat my Eclipse trying to save them…

Dude, for the last time

STOP
COMPARING 
HEALING
TO
INCOMING
DMG

 

Healing done compared to the damage done, directly tells how effective the healing is, which is seriously lacking in this case.

And if the healing done is seriously lacking, why bother flying an engineer ?.

If something is too strong, you reduce it, but if something is too weak, it needs to be increased - simple logic.