Punishment for disconnecting

Suggestions Miscellaneous
#1

There’s been an awful lot of topics about players disconnecting, recently. There’s a lot of calls for further punishment rather than simply a marginal loss of somewhere around 200k credits, since it makes the game a good deal less fun when it happens. There’s also a lot of calls for no further punishment due to the current cost of about 200k credits per match, the fact that this is simply a game, and because it isn’t strictly against the rules. I made a post not too terribly long ago about an idea for a system to make a reasonable punishment, but since it’s buried inside another topic, I think it’s a good idea to simply make another thread. So here we go. Disconnection punishment, revised edition. If you don’t like walls of text, the important parts are underlined.

 

The first idea is that everybody has to disconnect sometimes. Y’know, a phone call, a knock at the door, internet going out, that sort of thing. So if there is a system for penalties, it ought to have forgiveness built into it for those cases. The best idea I can come up with is making a system where a certain number of demerits are penalized for disconnecting, and where the number of demerits you have determines your punishment. Of course, it also implies that there ought to be as many chances as possible to rejoin a battle. Thus, there should always be an option to rejoin a battle under the “Launch” button in hangar. Another important part, from the fact that many players are clueless: These rules, if implemented, ought to be put under the help tab, and the details of any punishment sent to the player who incurred them through inbox.

 

Each battle is meant to have a certain number of players to a side. Let’s call that number N. For a 2v2, N is 2. For a 12v12, N is 12. N is special, since it’s a huge factor in how much the disconnect is felt. So, for any numerical system of demerits, the penalty for leaving an N=2 match ought to be more than an N=12 match, all other things being equal.

 

Let’s throw a few formulas out there.

For requeuing after disconnecting (while some of your ships are in battle, in other words), you ought to get 25 - 1.5 * (N - 2) disconnect demerits.

That is 10 for a 12v12 and 25 for a 2v2. This is the largest, simply because if you do this, you clearly disconnected simply for another match.

For disconnecting for more than half the duration of the match, you ought to get 15 - (N - 2) disconnect demerits.

That is 5 for a 12v12 and 15 for a 2v2. This is a smaller factor due to the fact that sometimes, it’s just necessary to disconnect.

For disconnecting manually (either by using alt+f4, if that’s possible to detect, or by using the menu button), you ought to get 10 - .5 * (N - 2) disconnect demerits.

That is 5 for a 12v12 and 10 for a 2v2. This is the smallest factor because, once again, you just gotta disconnect sometimes.

 

Everything is linear here, but that’s just details. Formulas can be changed, after all. These just put out nice, round numbers for every value of N.

 

It’s pretty obvious punishments ought to get worse as the offenses do. And, of course, if there is to be forgiveness built into the system, the first penalty has to be at a respectable number already. But if there is to be much discouragement at all, the first punishment must be at a relatively low number.

 

For persons who reach 50 disconnect demerits, a fine ought to be applied worth 10% of their credits. Note that for 5 million credits, this is a mere setback of 500k, which is approximately three or four matches, or 15 minutes in invasion.

For persons who reach 100 disconnect demerits, a further 10% fine on credits should be applied, as well as an income malus of 10% for all income (with the exception of GS, since that’s real money) until their demerits drop below 100 again. This is again only 500k for people with 5 million credits. The income malus is probably more a psychological disincentive than an actual one, since credits aren’t the most important currency, and 10% is really not that much.

For persons who reach 200 disconnect demerits, a 20% fine on not only credits, but artifacts and vouchers as well, should be applied. They should be put into a special low priority queue, weighted towards matches with only other people with 200 points or more. They should be told of this through a message in their inbox. Furthermore, another income malus for all income (again, no GS) should be applied, not stacking with the previous, so that they only receive 150/(number of demerits) of their income until they drop below 200 demerits again. This punishment is huge. If you get to 200 points, you’re probably disconnecting from around half your matches. A ridiculous solution to a ridiculous problem.

 

Of course, given that the only methods described thus far are punishments and ways to gain points, there must also be a way to reduce demerits.

 

Every day at midnight, GMT, either five percent, or just plain five, of every player’s demerits, whichever is greater, should be removed.

 

So here’s a few examples of the times it’d take to get rid of demerits.

 

Examples of penalty times:

50 - 10 days to get rid of all demerits, assuming no further disconnects.

100 - 20 days to get rid of all demerits, assuming no further disconnects. Just one day to get rid of the income malus.

150 - 28 days to get rid of all demerits, assuming no further disconnects. Eight days to get rid of the income malus.

200 - 34 days to get rid of all demerits, assuming no further disconnects. 14 days to get rid of the income malus. Just one day to get out of the special queue and super income malus.

250 - 38 days to get rid of all demerits, assuming no further disconnects. 18 days to get rid of the income malus. Five days to get out of the special queue and super income malus.

#2

i never disconnect on purpose.

 

internet goes out, game crashes, sometimes frequently, sometimes very strangely against a certain type of enemies making me suspicious if there is a way to make someone else disconnect; sometimes it even disconnected me from the battle while others were playing and i could not rejoin until half the battle was over and was stuck in triangulation.

 

i can’t say, this is usual, nor do i think, this game is buggy in that resort. but while it is quite cool - especially hot rejoin after game crash - such a penalty system could make a malus forever, since if you play daily, you have at least one disconnect a week for sure.

 

so i am not sure, if an objective penalty system is even possible. because lets face it, it’s often quite obvious, that some people disconnect on purpose, while others dont. this needs a qualitative system, not an objective one, which means, warnings issued due to reports of purposeful disconnections, while they should be disputable. since people who disconnect once or twice, or frequently due to their connection, are not at fault;

Quite the same as people who do not disconnect, but go AFK because they say: xxxx team. Once reports of such people accumulate, it is quite obvious, such a person is doing it on purpose, and he should be charged and warned; possibly investigated. But such a system needs moderation.

 

Automatic systems always just hurt people - while those who do it on purpose will learn fast, how to circumvent it or use the rules to their advantage.

 

The last game i played was CS:Go, which had a 24h penalty once you disconnected from ladder matches. Game crashed, I could not rejoin, I deinstalled the game.

#3

i never disconnect on purpose.

 

internet goes out, game crashes, sometimes frequently, sometimes very strangely against a certain type of enemies making me suspicious if there is a way to make someone else disconnect; sometimes it even disconnected me from the battle while others were playing and i could not rejoin until half the battle was over and was stuck in triangulation.

 

i can’t say, this is usual, nor do i think, this game is buggy in that resort. but while it is quite cool - especially hot rejoin after game crash - such a penalty system could make a malus forever, since if you play daily, you have at least one disconnect a week for sure.

 

so i am not sure, if an objective penalty system is even possible. because lets face it, it’s often quite obvious, that some people disconnect on purpose, while others dont. this needs a qualitative system, not an objective one, which means, warnings issued due to reports of purposeful disconnections, while they should be disputable. since people who disconnect once or twice, or frequently due to their connection, are not at fault;

Quite the same as people who do not disconnect, but go AFK because they say: xxxx team. Once reports of such people accumulate, it is quite obvious, such a person is doing it on purpose, and he should be charged and warned; possibly investigated. But such a system needs moderation.

 

Automatic systems always just hurt people - while those who do it on purpose will learn fast, how to circumvent it or use the rules to their advantage.

 

The last game i played was CS:Go, which had a 24h penalty once you disconnected from ladder matches. Game crashed, I could not rejoin, I deinstalled the game.

The problem there is that with all this reporting going on, I’ve seen no action. None, whatsoever. So I figure, if the players can’t do anything, why not have the game do it? I mean, you can make the numbers more forgiving. You can even make it to the point where you can disconnect once a day and still feel nothing. I just feel so frustrated that I can’t see any action happening for people who disconnect for no other reason than “this match doesn’t look good”.

#4

Again, you are not bothering to actually look into the problem. Instead, you want to treat the symptom. With a hammer.

 

I have disconnected from matches before, deliberately. I will do so again. Off the top of my head, I have disconnected from games for the following reasons:

  • I needed beacon captures to complete contracts, and was only getting detonation and combat recon matches.
  • Got put in a 4v4 against an ESB squad with randoms on my side.
  • Got put into a match with three good squads on one side and no squads on mine.
  • Got put into a 4v4 with 3 bots per side.
  • Got put in a 2v2 combat recon.
  • Got put into a 6v6 or lower match five times in a row.
  • Got put into a Capture the Beacons where half my team had one ship in their lineup.
  • Got put into a game with unplayable levels of latency and single-digit frame rate.
  • Got put into a game on Abandoned Outpost (the current version, not the fun beacon-triangle one).
  • Got stuck inside the scenery.
  • Got put into a game where nobody had an engineer on their lineup.
  • Got put into a T3 match when flying T2.
  • Got put into a T4 match when flying T3.
  • Got put into a T5 match when flying T4.

You can argue all you like about whether any of these are “good” reason to disconnect from a match, but they all have one thing in common - disconnecting was preferable to seeing the match through to the end. That is what your “fix” is failing to address. You don’t care WHY people are dropping out of matches; you only care that they are.

 

Stop trying to fix the symptom. Fix the cause.

#5

I cometely agree with everything JasonQuinn has said.

I would add another reason: got put into combat recon game mode with a lrf or fed engi captain on my side

#6

Stop trying to fix the symptom. Fix the cause.

But, but, but… :effort:

#7

Again, you are not bothering to actually look into the problem. Instead, you want to treat the symptom. With a hammer.

 

I have disconnected from matches before, deliberately. I will do so again. Off the top of my head, I have disconnected from games for the following reasons:

  • I needed beacon captures to complete contracts, and was only getting detonation and combat recon matches.
  • Got put in a 4v4 against an ESB squad with randoms on my side.
  • Got put into a match with three good squads on one side and no squads on mine.
  • Got put into a 4v4 with 3 bots per side.
  • Got put in a 2v2 combat recon.
  • Got put into a 6v6 or lower match five times in a row.
  • Got put into a Capture the Beacons where half my team had one ship in their lineup.
  • Got put into a game with unplayable levels of latency and single-digit frame rate.
  • Got put into a game on Abandoned Outpost (the current version, not the fun beacon-triangle one).
  • Got stuck inside the scenery.
  • Got put into a game where nobody had an engineer on their lineup.
  • Got put into a T3 match when flying T2.
  • Got put into a T4 match when flying T3.
  • Got put into a T5 match when flying T4.

You can argue all you like about whether any of these are “good” reason to disconnect from a match, but they all have one thing in common - disconnecting was preferable to seeing the match through to the end. That is what your “fix” is failing to address. You don’t care WHY people are dropping out of matches; you only care that they are.

 

Stop trying to fix the symptom. Fix the cause.

While I’d love to treat the causes, if the issue has been raised a thousand times already, I get the feeling that one more thread isn’t going to help. Moreover, players leaving matches is indeed a legitimate problem all on its own, and you encouraging such behaviour is entirely ridiculous.

 

When I get a match, I stay there unless I have real-life things that I must attend to, where leaving it for 10 minutes would be stupid. I don’t care how badly my team is getting stomped, or how many other people have left already. Because, honestly, leaving a match for any other reason seems ridiculous to me. Don’t try to dodge the blame by changing the topic. I realize that you’ve listed several legitimate problems on their own, and that disconnecting is understandable under such circumstances. Matchmaker balance issues, bad ping/netcode, Abandoned Complex eating processing power, and not being able to choose the map/gamemode. But those aren’t the issues I’m talking about here. Each of them has been brought up before, and none have had any action taken to solve them. Moreover, there is no such thing as a perfect matchmaker, and, in my experience, some players will leave regardless.Talk all you like about those issues, but please, do it in another thread.

#8

So instead of addressing real issues you’re inventing a strawman player who disconnects for no reason and claiming said strawman appears in every match and must be punished?

Well I have news for you - all you’re doing here is making things worse.

There might well be players who are disconnecting for bad reasons, like giving corpmates an easier win, but you cannot build the entire system around them to the detriment of everyone else. You need to find a way to single these players out that will not punish players who drop out of games for good reasons, and you can’t do that by an automated process.

#9

So instead of addressing real issues you’re inventing a strawman player who disconnects for no reason and claiming said strawman appears in every match and must be punished?

Well I have news for you - all you’re doing here is making things worse.

There might well be players who are disconnecting for bad reasons, like giving corpmates an easier win, but you cannot build the entire system around them to the detriment of everyone else. You need to find a way to single these players out that will not punish players who drop out of games for good reasons, and you can’t do that by an automated process.

If you’re talking about the strawman fallacy, try not to use it in the same breath as you mentioned it. I’m saying that there will be players who quit for some reason or another, no matter what, and that they ought to be punished if they do it too often. Not that there are players who will always quit in every match for no reason, not that every match has a disconnected player.

 

Mate, if someone disconnects more than a few times a day for any reason whatsoever, they ought to feel something. Whether that something be a few more demerits than normal or an actual punishment. It doesn’t matter. I don’t think you read quite closely enough – this system that I’m suggesting is open to a ridiculous amount of tuning, from forgiveness to the point of letting people who quit 20 matches a day get no punishment, to strictness to the point of banning people forever for quitting so much as once. If you think that any system that follows this example cannot be forgiving enough, then so be it. But there’s a point where quitting matches for whatever reason stops being reasonable and starts being worthy of punishment. That much is clear to me. If you leave an already lopsided battle, then fine. If you leave a boring battle, then fine. If you leave a perfect battle, then fine. But if you leave so many battles daily, then that’s not fine. Every disconnect is felt in game by the people who are left behind. No one likes an unbalanced match - I certainly don’t, even if I’m on the winning side. One person leaving, especially if that person has skill, easily makes a previously balanced match unbalanced. And, y’know, I’m fine with that. Everyone’s entitled to disconnect from time to time. But when someone gets to the point where they disconnect from multiple matches a day, it gets ridiculous. I could care less whatever the reason! If the matchmaker sees fit to hand someone ten losses in a row, then so be it. They ought to stay in most of them, fight the battle out, and take the loss. Because if they don’t, then no matter how hard the remaining people try, there’s no way that they’ll win.

 

Here’s a parable for you. Once, there was a marching band that had 70 props and 120 people. At the beginning of the season, many members helped load and unload the props, making the entire process quick. But as time went on, some people stopped, thinking that their loss would not be felt. And, to be truthful, it wasn’t. Perhaps five minutes were wasted in want of more people. But as time went on further, even more stopped helping, not wishing to expend so much effort on something other people would do. The time it took was still reasonable, but now the effect was felt. Suddenly, a process that once took 10 minutes now took 30. But time still went on, and even more people stopped helping, as they wanted to simply get over it. Now only about 10 band members were loading and unloading every performance. What once took 10 minutes now took more than an hour - to the point where the helpers would tell the band members to stop helping, because if they did, they would be late for the performance.

 

How I see what happened is thus: If people didn’t want to do something 25, 50% of the time, that would have been fine, as that would have probably ended up with an average of about 60 people helping every performance. But since the vast majority didn’t do it 100% of the time, it left about 10. By the time I was told to go off and change into my performance clothes, I was dead tired. For every performance in the second half of the season. Not fun, let me tell you. But I’m not about to say that, because of that, no one should be able to disconnect more than once a day. No, although once a day is pushing it. But if someone disconnects more than that? They ought to be punished. I don’t care what kind of matches they’re getting. If you see this as punishing the layman, then go ahead and see it that way. It doesn’t change the truth.

#10

I completely agree with you statue, a system of demerits would be amazing to implement. Unfortunately, there is no way to distinguish between an intentional disconnect or an internet issue/crash. If a way to distinguish comes up, this demerit system would be excellent to add. It allows players a few games to disconnect because of any reason stated above, but will punish if it happens too often. I would even add a 10 demerits one with 24 hours to remove them. 

 

And very few of these are valid reasons to leave.

 

Again, you are not bothering to actually look into the problem. Instead, you want to treat the symptom. With a hammer.

 

I have disconnected from matches before, deliberately. I will do so again. Off the top of my head, I have disconnected from games for the following reasons:

  • I needed beacon captures to complete contracts, and was only getting detonation and combat recon matches.  There are other contracts aside from beacon ones. There is always at least 2 contracts you can fulfill regardless of the gamemode.
  • Got put in a 4v4 against an ESB squad with randoms on my side.  It is possible to beat ESB. They aren’t invincible.
  • Got put into a match with three good squads on one side and no squads on mine.  This literally can’t happen in normal pvp, and if you get this in seccon, there is an easy solution: SQUAD UP!!!
  • Got put into a 4v4 with 3 bots per side.  Easy to win this type of battle, as rare as it is.
  • Got put in a 2v2 combat recon.  Easy to win, despite rareity
  • Got put into a 6v6 or lower match five times in a row.  Always happens in T5, get used to it, player base is low.
  • Got put into a Capture the Beacons where half my team had one ship in their lineup.  Still possible to win, but more vaild of a reason to leave.
  • Got put into a game with unplayable levels of latency and single-digit frame rate. Perfectly valid reason to leave, I leave due to this.
  • Got put into a game on Abandoned Outpost (the current version, not the fun beacon-triangle one).  I don’t even know why this is a problem…
  • Got stuck inside the scenery. Perfectly understandable
  • Got put into a game where nobody had an engineer on their lineup.  You can win a game without engies.
  • Got put into a T3 match when flying T2. Doesn’t happen anymore (unless you have a T3 in your loadout)
  • Got put into a T4 match when flying T3.  "
  • Got put into a T5 match when flying T4.  "

You can argue all you like about whether any of these are “good” reason to disconnect from a match, but they all have one thing in common - disconnecting was preferable to seeing the match through to the end. That is what your “fix” is failing to address. You don’t care WHY people are dropping out of matches; you only care that they are.

 

Stop trying to fix the symptom. Fix the cause.

#11

Who is quitting 20 times a day? Seriously, where and when are you playing that you are getting people drop out that frequently?

And you still haven’t bothered to address any of the issues raised with your idea. You sound like a politician ranting how everyone on benefits is cheating the system, or how immigrants are stealing all the jobs.

How are you going to ensure this system does not punish legitimate disconnects? Keep in mind that I have played this game during times when server instability kicked a third of the players each match. That’s an extreme example, but it happened and your system has to be able to account for that.

Your system has to not punish people for hardware or network failures (which you might not be able to differentiate from other, illegitimate disconnects). To truly work, your system would also have to tell the difference between the game client crashing / internet connection failing and these things being manually disabled.

Now, since we both know you can’t address any of these points raised, will you now accept your idea is fundamentally flawed and stop claiming otherwise?b

#12

Removed by Author 

#13

Who is quitting 20 times a day? Seriously, where and when are you playing that you are getting people drop out that frequently?

And you still haven’t bothered to address any of the issues raised with your idea. You sound like a politician ranting how everyone on benefits is cheating the system, or how immigrants are stealing all the jobs.

How are you going to ensure this system does not punish legitimate disconnects? Keep in mind that I have played this game during times when server instability kicked a third of the players each match. That’s an extreme example, but it happened and your system has to be able to account for that.

Your system has to not punish people for hardware or network failures (which you might not be able to differentiate from other, illegitimate disconnects). To truly work, your system would also have to tell the difference between the game client crashing / internet connection failing and these things being manually disabled.

Now, since we both know you can’t address any of these points raised, will you now accept your idea is fundamentally flawed and stop claiming otherwise?b

20 disconnects is an example of hyperbole. It’s the sort of thing used to differentiate between the people who would be punished and the people who wouldn’t.

 

Legitimate disconnects ought to be fine. If someone’s computer crashes or internet goes out more than once a day during their Star Conflict time, then I’d like to meet them. While I’m not certain of it, I’m of the impression that it is possible to differentiate between a crash and a normal exit of the game. I mean, if my internet browser can do it, I’m willing to bet that Star Conflict can. On the other hand, disconnecting the internet manually would be impossible to see. But here’s the thing; if you’re playing with internet that disconnects you from the majority of your matches, then the system can’t tell. But that’s the sort of thing that’s raised to a case-by-case basis, not punishments in general. Players who disconnect hurt the playerbase, that much is certain. There should be action, and with this current system of reporting, nothing is happening. So do pray tell, what solution are you seeing, besides taking no action at all?

 

Only one question: do you believe this system, as proposed, will INCREASE player retention? This game suffers from low player base, that much is obvious. Will your proposal help improve the player base by help keeping more people playing the game, or will it have the opposite effect?

Good question. There are two divisions of people, not amazingly well defined, under this system. They would be players who disconnect often, and those who don’t. We don’t know if those who do do so purposefully or not, but that’s an issue that can be seen on a case by case appeal, and can more or less be ignored. So, there’s four possibilities after applying this system.

 

If the players who disconnect often stay in game…

    And the players who don’t, stay as well. This is probably what happens now, and possibly what happens if the system is applied.

    And the players who don’t, leave. This is possibly related to some people quitting right now, but I can’t be sure.

 

If the players who disconnect leave the game…

    And the players who don’t, stay. This is rather similar to what happens now, and also possibly what happens if the system is applied.

    And the players who don’t, leave. I’m entirely confused as to why this case would happen. This would more likely be related to some other issue than punishments for disconnecting being given.

 

So, three cases where playerbase is lowered. If everybody starts to leave, then clearly the system is unpopular with absolutely everybody, including those who aren’t even affected. I’m not sure why this would happen. If players who disconnect often stay in game and the players who don’t, leave, then somehow handing out punishments to people who disconnect often has encouraged people who don’t feel those punishments to leave. And finally, the most plausible one, that if players who disconnect leave and players who don’t, stay – well, that’s not exactly what we want, we want them to stop disconnecting, but to be certain, that’s not a terrible punishment for the rest of us. Add a system of appeals, and then I can’t believe that there’s any leaving the game unless they’re particularly upset they can’t disconnect as much as they want to.

#14

Just had a Team Battle where one of our players took a single look at the enemy team, saw there was an ESB member on it, typed “this game is not balanced” in chat, and then promptly disconnected 5 seconds into the match.

 

 

Here’s another thought on a possible punishment. If a player disconnects from battle, he has effectively “abandoned” his ships on the battlefield. Therefore, regardless of Premium status, every ship he had brought into the battle is returned at 0 durability and must be fully repaired before it can be flown again. Thus, the penalty also gets more severe the higher level the player is.

#15

Just had a Team Battle where one of our players took a single look at the enemy team, saw there was an ESB member on it, typed “this game is not balanced” in chat, and then promptly disconnected 5 seconds into the match.

Here’s another thought on a possible punishment. If a player disconnects from battle, he has effectively “abandoned” his ships on the battlefield. Therefore, regardless of Premium status, every ship he had brought into the battle is returned at 0 durability and must be fully repaired before it can be flown again. Thus, the penalty also gets more severe the higher level the player is.

No, bad idea. Why should I be punished? The person who should be punished is the Ace who brought a t2 ship to t5 PVP (had 3 matches like that today) and who forces me to dc so as not to waste 10 minutes of my life fighting a losing battle.

I am aware this is a different issue, but that would reduce the number of dcs I think.

#16

Here’s another thought on a possible punishment. If a player disconnects from battle, he has effectively “abandoned” his ships on the battlefield. Therefore, regardless of Premium status, every ship he had brought into the battle is returned at 0 durability and must be fully repaired before it can be flown again. Thus, the penalty also gets more severe the higher level the player is.

 

The problem with this would be that players who crash or lose internet connection would also be punished (though unintentional). Unfortunately, no punishment can be implemented because there is no way to differentiate between a crash/connection loss and a disconnect. Even if there was a way, people could simply Alt+F4 or unplug their router to fool the game into thinking it was a crash/connection loss.

 

The simplest solution is remove the option to disconnect, but that is impractical, as some people disconnect for valid reasons (high ping/packet loss, impossible odds as millanbel said, etc.)

#17

Simplest solution is to stop giving us unbalanced games. Then people won’t feel the need to disconnect.

#18

The problem with this would be that players who crash or lose internet connection would also be punished (though unintentional).

 

So don’t differentiate. We’ve already got an option to re-join an existing battle if the game thinks we disconnected by accident.

 

Players who DC all the time will feel the sting of losing lots of credits, and will DC less frequently. Players that just have connection issues shouldn’t be DCing so frequently that it totally destroys their wallet. Unless they live in Antarctica…

#19

So don’t differentiate. We’ve already got an option to re-join an existing battle if the game thinks we disconnected by accident.

Players who DC all the time will feel the sting of losing lots of credits, and will DC less frequently. Players that just have connection issues shouldn’t be DCing so frequently that it totally destroys their wallet. Unless they live in Antarctica…

So if I disconnect 30 seconds before the end of a match due to Internet failure, having been top player throughout, you’re saying I not only deserve to lose all my rewards but I should also be forced to repair all my ships? Only if YOU foot the bill!

#20

So if I disconnect 30 seconds before the end of a match due to Internet failure…

 

Uh… yes. Because paying that bill once won’t kill you. It’s to discourage those who disconnect over and over again.