Poll on the match making. November, 8th.

Mercenary Center Polls
101

See, you keep making comments like this…

 

" OK I agree but I want to be able to enjoy the full game while making my way up with skill."

 

…and you seem to have absolutely no problem with that. At all. This troubles me greatly.

 

Let me give you an example you can relate to…

 

Let’s say I buy Call of Duty. I want to be able to compete with the Prestige players, and I want it now. I’ve never played a Call of Duty game, but I’ve decided I am entitled to be just as good as they are, so I want the game to be changed to suit my demands. I want to be given a perfect radar on at all times so people can’t ambush me. I want to be immune to mines and traps because I don’t think they are fair. I want an auto-aim system because I’m not good at shooting.

 

In what kind of world would you consider that a reasonable demand? You wouldn’t, so why do you think Star Conflict should be made this way?

 

You have friends, who I doubt actually exist and were made up for the sake of argument, but let’s assume they are real for a moment, who are terrible at this game and cannot compete in a Tier 2 match because they get slaughtered every time… yet you think they should be allowed to fly Tier 3?

 

Consider this, Griffon. If your friends are so utterly inept that the presence of one weapon type, one missile type, two active modules and one passive is too much for them to handle, to learn to use effectively and to progress with to the point where they feel the need for a greater challenge, how in the hell are they going to cope with the complexity of Tier 3?

 

They aren’t. Which is why I suspect you are simply making things up. Your friends, if they are really so hopeless at this game, would be sent home crying even in the current matchmaking, because even with the current “catering to the talentless” matchmaking system they will, at best, be ranked with high level tier 2. I am currently maxing out my tier 2, and I can say with confidence that I would be more of a threat to your friends in my t2 ships than anyone they’d face in T1, which is where they clearly belong if your claims are true.

 

So what is your answer then, Griffon? Are you now going to have the gall to say that because I, using T2 ships can murder your friends, who use T3, that I should be flying against T4, or even T5 when in T2? Will you ban me from the game altogether because I’m better than your friends? I’ll put money down right now that I could probably murder their T3 ships using my T1 if they are as inept as you claim.

 

So, how about you drop your strawman and start discussing real game events, with real people and what really goes on? Because I don’t know what agenda you are pursuing, but I suspect it’s a selfish one. If I had to guess, I’d go with the fact you are one of those pilots who are being dropped into lower tiers due to a weak (and potentially abused) DSR rating, and you know that under Fixed Tiers you would not be able to abuse the game for easy kills any more.

102

Exactly what do you mean by “enjoying the full game”? In T1 and T2 you can play every single map mode, and use all the roles. If there’s a development system that takes time to reach “better” ships, well, is for something, don’t you think? Do you think is remotely fair that someone that decided to use its spare-time to play just this game has to be in the same level as someone that don’t give a crap and play occasionaly once a month? No, that ain’t fair. And please, don’t come with the “oh but I’ve family” or something like that, because we ALL have real life issues and things that we must attend, be it school, university, a job, family, children, friends, etc…

And again, whenever there’s need for skill of the person (call it reflexes, hand-eye coordination, awareness, etc.), the game automatically lose most of it “casual” part.

I don’t know how you find Star Conflict, I found it through STEAM, and you can check out an special section that contains every single CASUAL game, that of course, doesn’t include this one we’re talking about right now, be my guest: http://store.steampowered.com/genre/Casual/

If you want to play without worrying, just to enjoy the game with your friends, not caring about results nor stadistics, then I need to tell you that the developers already made a “phase” for that kind of gaming: T1 and early T2. Even more, the “Custom Battles” are for that.

Or let’s go to the extreme: Let’s push so the developers introduce 2 kind of queue, 1 for “casuals” where your victories don’t add, you don’t get W/L ratio nor Skill Rating, much less medals or achievements, you get statistically NOTHING, and other queue for those that want to play the game how its supposed to be.

103

 

See, you keep making comments like this…

 

" OK I agree but I want to be able to enjoy the full game while making my way up with skill."

 

…and you seem to have absolutely no problem with that. At all. This troubles me greatly.

 

yep with a FULL game, all ship, all weapons etc…

 

Let me give you an example you can relate to…

 

Let’s say I buy Call of Duty. I want to be able to compete with the Prestige players, and I want it now. I’ve never played a Call of Duty game, but I’ve decided I am entitled to be just as good as they are, so I want the game to be changed to suit my demands. I want to be given a perfect radar on at all times so people can’t ambush me. I want to be immune to mines and traps because I don’t think they are fair. I want an auto-aim system because I’m not good at shooting.

 

We don’t want to compete with prestigue guy, we just want to compete with low skill guy with all the weapons. in call of, low skill guys still have access to all the weapons they want to use if they spent enough time on the game.

 

In what kind of world would you consider that a reasonable demand? You wouldn’t, so why do you think Star Conflict should be made this way?

 

You have friends, who I doubt actually exist and were made up for the sake of argument, but let’s assume they are real for a moment, who are terrible at this game and cannot compete in a Tier 2 match because they get slaughtered every time… yet you think they should be allowed to fly Tier 3?

 

They currently manage to do decently in T2 game with mixed tier system (the closest friends), the 2 other are just playing pve since they don’t know yet how to aim at a fast moving target.

 

Consider this, Griffon. If your friends are so utterly inept that the presence of one weapon type, one missile type, two active modules and one passive is too much for them to handle, to learn to use effectively and to progress with to the point where they feel the need for a greater challenge, how in the hell are they going to cope with the complexity of Tier 3?

 

They know perfectly how the different guns/missiles/active modules/passive modules works. what they lack is the rest (aiming, moving(evasive manoeuver)).

 

They aren’t. Which is why I suspect you are simply making things up. Your friends, if they are really so hopeless at this game, would be sent home crying even in the current matchmaking, because even with the current “catering to the talentless” matchmaking system they will, at best, be ranked with high level tier 2. I am currently maxing out my tier 2, and I can say with confidence that I would be more of a threat to your friends in my t2 ships than anyone they’d face in T1, which is where they clearly belong if your claims are true.

 

Yes you’re true, in a T1 ship you’d mostly be a greater threat than any T2 average skill people. MM “tries” to reduce the impact but cannot completely delete it. At least you wouldn’t be killing them in T1 (which is what fixed tier would do)

 

So what is your answer then, Griffon? Are you now going to have the gall to say that because I, using T2 ships can murder your friends, who use T3, that I should be flying against T4, or even T5 when in T2? Will you ban me from the game altogether because I’m better than your friends? I’ll put money down right now that I could probably murder their T3 ships using my T1 if they are as inept as you claim.

 

I won’t ban you, I just prefer the system which put people of same level together, level containing Skill/DSR/Synergy/Gear.

 

So, how about you drop your strawman and start discussing real game events, with real people and what really goes on? Because I don’t know what agenda you are pursuing, but I suspect it’s a selfish one. If I had to guess, I’d go with the fact you are one of those pilots who are being dropped into lower tiers due to a weak (and potentially abused) DSR rating, and you know that under Fixed Tiers you would not be able to abuse the game for easy kills any more.

 

actually when I fly solo I do sometimes fight T4 in my T3 ships but I rarely fly solo, because I play the game with friends, not alone.

 

 

 

Exactly what do you mean by “enjoying the full game”? In T1 and T2 you can play every single map mode, and use all the roles. If there’s a development system that takes time to reach “better” ships, well, is for something, don’t you think? Do you think is remotely fair that someone that decided to use its spare-time to play just this game has to be in the same level as someone that don’t give a crap and play occasionaly once a month? No, that ain’t fair.
I mean all game modes, all maps, all ships, all weapons. Whatever there is in the game.
And again, whenever there’s need for skill of the person (call it reflexes, hand-eye coordination, awareness, etc.), the game automatically lose most of it “casual” part.
I agree but then most games tries to make up for it by putting people with same " reflexes, hand-eye coordination, awareness, etc."  together.
I don’t know how you find Star Conflict, I found it through STEAM, and you can check out an special section that contains every single CASUAL game, that of course, doesn’t include this one we’re talking about right now, be my guest: http://store.steampo…m/genre/Casual/

If you want to play without worrying, just to enjoy the game with your friends, not caring about results nor stadistics, then I need to tell you that the developers already made a “phase” for that kind of gaming: T1 and early T2.
But we already dii all T1 and most T2, then what next ? T3 ? we can’t. So what should we do next ? don’t progress anymore ? 
Or let’s go to the extreme: Introduce 2 queue, 1 for “casuals” where your victories don’t add, you don’t get W/L ratio nor Skill Rating, much less medals or achievements, and other queue for those that want to play the game how its supposed to be.

Do you really think that the aces (not all aces I agree) who likes to stomp people won’t go in the casual queue ? 

104

 

Do you really think that the aces (not all aces I agree) who likes to stomp people won’t go in the casual queue ? 

 

I strongly believe so, because they will gain NOTHING, and the only reason why those pseudo-aces are going to lowers tiers right now, is to FARM STATS, because they suck so hard in highers tiers that they need to go stomp the newb1es in order to see their W/L and kill/assist ratio increase, but with a complete casual queue without rewards nor nothing, they will stay out :slight_smile:

PS: Anyway, it was an “extreme” as I said, if they do that with the actual playerbase, we’ll have to wait 30 hours to get a game.

105

Okay, Griffon, let me get this straight…

 

What we want:

  1. 5 tiers.
  2. fixed tiers.
  3. Progression system so that the best players rise up to the top, and the rest rise as far as their skill can take them and stop.

You want:

  1. 5 tiers.
  2. A matchmaking system for each tier that divides players between “causal” and “hardcore” (which, based on the above, would require at least 3 queues per tier; 5 to do it accurately).
  3. Said system to take into account tech difference to ensure the matches are balanced.
  4. Shorter queues (you claim mixed tiers are shorter, but it should be pretty damn obvious this isn’t the case…).
  5. A magical space fairy to come along and convince everyone that having to wait 20 minutes for a T2 match because you are the only “almost competitive” players in the tier, and the matchmaking won’t allow you to “farm” the “I only play once a fortnight” group.

Do you understand the concept of limits? Do you understand that not everything can be accomplished? Do you understand that the more you divide a matchmaking system in order to “make things fair” for your myriad of demographics, the harder it becomes for each demographic to play the game at all?

 

Under your idealised system there are probably 10-20 pilots online who fit your “skill level”. Under our system, there would be 100-200. Some would be better than you. Some would be worse. That’s life - overall, the average skill level should mean you don’t really notice.

 

This is what we call a “compromise”. That’s when we take what we want in a perfect world, look at what exists in the real world, and try to find a happy medium. It’s like when you want to eat nothing but chocolate all day every day, but real life says you can’t because you’d get diabetes, or your stomach would burst and you’d die in agony. You can force feed yourself until you rupture like a piñat__a full of human waste and partially digested snack foods, but everyone would consider you mentally unstable if you proposed it.

 

Thus, we come back to the whole point of Fixed Tiers - to give the best of all worlds. Skilled players get to work up to the top and stay safely away from the less able players. The less able players get two (maybe three, depending on how things work out) tiers to play about in, with a myriad of ships and classes and abilities. The rest occupy the middle ground. Everyone gets all the classes, everyone gets all the maps. Everyone gets an experience that, to within a reasonable degree, provides them with a challenging and fair gaming experience.

 

But if you can come up with a way that ensures I can get consistent games at any and all tiers of the game with people who are all comparable to me in skill and do so with a matchmaking time equal to or less than the current (90 seconds or less being the norm for T2 / T3), then you need to get over to Russia and sign up with Gaijin, because they will be so eager to take you on they won’t even ask for a CV.

106

Lets put it this way 

 

Tier locked, MM matches squads against squads, SR ( for this example is allowed) is taken to Match you in the most balanced match. Simple. 

107

Lets put it this way 

 

Tier locked, MM matches squads against squads, SR ( for this example is allowed) is taken to Match you in the most balanced match. Simple.

you cant just match squads vs squads, for some squads it will be the same as curb stomping Aces, but they will have to wait 30 minutes for that instead, in the same time what if there is no other squad to even match you?

108

I hope they just set fixed tiers, so I can have my full purple Deimos 2 and be the King of the Hill all the games.

 

Because I’m so PRO.

 

Locked tiers are just a fail. Gaijin knows, and hopefully, they will keep the mixed tiers, like every other Shooter MMO.

 

As far as I can see, the pool result will be that everything is fine. I would like the squad malus to be removed, but aside from that, the current MM is really fine.

109

I hope they just set fixed tiers, so I can have my full purple Deimos 2 and be the King of the Hill all the games.

 

Because I’m so PRO.

 

Locked tiers are just a fail. Gaijin knows, and hopefully, they will keep the mixed tiers, like every other Shooter MMO.

 

As far as I can see, the pool result will be that everything is fine. I would like the squad malus to be removed, but aside from that, the current MM is really fine.

Evis, fixed tiers does not mean no match balance.

There can still be balance with low ranks vs low ranks and high ranks vs high rank, etc. etc. etc.

 

And every shooter with mixed tiers is unbalanced as hell.

I remember Warrock, lvl 80-100 players vs lvl 2 players, yeah…That was an insta-loss.

110

People seem to be forgetting that this poll barely touches on any matchmaking specifics. Antibus has said this is a preliminary poll; if fixed tiers wins, they would then look into how to make matchmaking balanced whilst catering to the desires of the player base. That would likely mean 2+ queues per tier.

111

Well actually other shooter mmo do worse, in bf4 a begginner is matched with a general with all weapons. 

There is some who does count “skill rating” to match player whatever the equipment and rank that guy could have. And those MM are good, not the others like bf4 or warrock (as said above).

 

In a given tier there is less people than the given tier +/-2ranks. So it’ll harder to find enough people who have the same “level”. That’s all.

You just want a game which is purely skill based… then gaijin should have one interceptor, one fighter and one frigate with fixed modules/weapons. That way, only skill would count. You just don’t accept that someone can kill you if he have a bit lower skill but a bit higher ship. in fixed tier it’s gonna be what ? you won’t accept being killed by someone who had better stuff ? 

 

Aces who like to stomp don’t care about rating, W/L ratio about anything, they just like to win. So YES they’ll queue in the casual even if they have nothing to gain. I can bet a lot of money on this.

 

 

 

Under your idealised system there are probably 10-20 pilots online who fit your “skill level”. Under our system, there would be 100-200. Some would be better than you. Some would be worse. That’s life - overall, the average skill level should mean you don’t really notice.

Yeah and 40-90 who will kill me in an instand without giving me a chance to fight back ? so that would be at least 1/4 guy in the matches, yeah fun. I’m not proposing the system with different queues as it would cripple the game I agree. The thing I proposed is a mixed/fixed tier MM, I explain :

let’s say rank 1,2,3 are rating 1,2,3. then instead of putting rating 4 to rank 4, put rating 6 on rank 4. That way it’d take a much more higher skill/synergy/gear to be matched tier 2. Same goes for rank 6 to 7, 9 to 10 and 12 to 13. So real aces will still be matched up tier where they belong while the average and above average player will stay in same tier.

And this sytem wouldn’t have long waiting times. It’d have the same as currently.

 

 

 

This is what we call a “compromise”. That’s when we take what we want in a perfect world, look at what exists in the real world, and try to find a happy medium. It’s like when you want to eat nothing but chocolate all day every day, but real life says you can’t because you’d get diabetes, or your stomach would burst and you’d die in agony. You can force feed yourself until you rupture like a piñat__a full of human waste and partially digested snack foods, but everyone would consider you mentally unstable if you proposed it.

You want a real world example ? Ok let’s take a sport, for example tennis (I do play tennis). There are rackets of all sorts, different prices, differents shoes etc… After a while of playing and if you have money and feel more at ease with pro equipment you can play with pro equipment. Imagine that when you buy pro equipment you were told “ok but now you play with rolland garros players”. That’s what you’re saying about SC. there is a gap between the ship you fly and your level. those 2 shouldn’t be mixed together. there are good tier 5 players, there are bad tier 5 players. The only thing that should differenciate a T5 and a T1 player is experience. That should be all.

 

 

 

with a myriad of ships and classes and abilities

No, with a limited number of ship classes and abilities.

 

No one on this forum even answered the question I posted 3 times. “In a fixed tier, when I’m a T2 players and made elite every ship in T1 and T2. what can I do in this game to progress further EXCEPT skill ?”. You all know the answer right ? 

112

Griffon: GO TO T3 IF YOU MAXED OUT T1/T2 AND FEEL LIKE PROGRESSING.

113

I can get to T3 in fixed tier, but my friend won’t be able to because they don’t have the skill to do so. So they do what ? Make their W/L ratio go to 0 ? Their skill won’t get up magically.

I’ll use my own example. When I’l have maxed all my T3 ships. I don’t have the skill to go in T4. I don’t want to be farmed for all my games. so I stop playing ? 

114

People seem to be forgetting that this poll barely touches on any matchmaking specifics. Antibus has said this is a preliminary poll; if fixed tiers wins, they would then look into how to make matchmaking balanced whilst catering to the desires of the player base. That would likely mean 2+ queues per tier.

There are already roughly 3 queues per Tier. It’s a matter of adjusting those to fit the Fixed tiers option, imo…

 

Of course, none of this is going forward because it’s not what the elite T5 pilots want.

115

I can get to T3 in fixed tier, but my friend won’t be able to because they don’t have the skill to do so. So they do what ? Make their W/L ratio go to 0 ? Their skill won’t get up magically.

I’ll use my own example. When I’l have maxed all my T3 ships. I don’t have the skill to go in T4. I don’t want to be farmed for all my games. so I stop playing ? 

They become better, simple. You get better by playing, and learning how to play your class(es). Especially if they have the desire to become better and listen to feedback.

T4 needs as much skill as T3. Just saying.

116

Then if I follow what you say, you can basically attain any level of skill with willpower. this is stupid : Could you win against a korean elite player of starcraft ? Short answer : no, even with all the time you could spend on it.

In any game, you begin at a given skill, then get it up by understanding the game better the, when you understood most of it, your skill won’t get up as easily and after a while of playing, you won’t progress your skil anymore. Everyone has a different skill ceiling. of course this skill ceiling also depends on how much time you put on the game. someone playing 5hours per day will have a higher skill ceiling than the one playing occasionnaly.

 

I already give them feedback on weapons, how to use them against what, positionning etc…and they do well in those but you can’t teach them how to aim, how to be aware of the map, how to be reactive, you can’t be taught these things.

117

I already give them feedback on weapons, how to use them against what, positionning etc…and they do well in those but you can’t teach them how to aim, how to be aware of the map, how to be reactive, you can’t be taught these things.

FYI, I am not a dogfighter. My combat skills are average at best, yet I can do very well in T3 or even T4. Want to know how I manage that? I follow the three Ms:

 

1) Missiles.

Missiles are easy to use. All you have to do is learn about range and angles. Using missiles you can get plenty of kills and assists even if you can’t aim.

 

2) Modules.

Flying Guards, I get more kills with Pulsars than I do with plasma cannons. Flying Recon, I spam Spy Drones and Parasitic Remodulators. Flying Engi, my Heals are always active and I try not to get into any fights without first having my drones out and active.

 

As long as you have some decent gunners on your team, you can get by purely on modules. In some cases, this is actually better for the team than trying to be a fighter ace; I’d rather have an engi who hides near to the front line than one who rushes in and dies.

 

3) Mission.

Kills are not important if the point of the game is to plant bombs, or capture beacons. I’ve had Detonation matches where the kill count was something like 20 kills to 50, and we won. I’ve had Combat Recon games where our team was massively behind on kills, but won by sniping the captain. Beacon modes are, likewise, won by beacon control, not kills.

 

Focus on winning the mission, not killing people, and victories will follow.

118

I agree with what you said against equal foes. but when there is an ace that want you dead. no “M” wll save you, you may win the battle, but have an horrible game. It’s not about winning or losing, it’s about having fun in what you do.

Most of what you say they already does, but just these 3 things doesn’t garantee you to win half of your games. and even if it does, you’ll have a lot of “annoying battle” when some aces wants you down because you’re an engi behind the lines.

 

1)Missiles, you said about turning angles and range (you forgot the speed of your target and his direction in the equation). but it still need skill to know when to fire them and sometimes they aren’t even usefull (interceptor turning around you or flares/AMS).

 

2)Modules : pulsar ok it help having assists. most people fly away when you put this on if they don’t want to die. This categories for you gives you assist and I agree allow to you be a little bit helpful to your team.

 

3)Mission, all you said implies going in the middle of battle. without aiming, manoeuvering and reactivity you’ll most likely be dead in seconds in T3 and above. and sniping the captain happens only if the ennemy captain is dumb. in 340 battles I’ve only had this situation once.

119

340 battles? Thank you. That tells us a lot.

It is generally concluded that 500 to 1000 games is a good number of matches to play before moving to T3, based on individual skill.

120

I agree with what you said against equal foes. but when there is an ace that want you dead. no “M” wll save you, you may win the battle, but have an horrible game. It’s not about winning or losing, it’s about having fun in what you do.

Most of what you say they already does, but just these 3 things doesn’t garantee you to win half of your games. and even if it does, you’ll have a lot of “annoying battle” when some aces wants you down because you’re an engi behind the lines.

 

1)Missiles, you said about turning angles and range (you forgot the speed of your target and his direction in the equation). but it still need skill to know when to fire them and sometimes they aren’t even usefull (interceptor turning around you or flares/AMS).

 

2)Modules : pulsar ok it help having assists. most people fly away when you put this on if they don’t want to die. This categories for you gives you assist and I agree allow to you be a little bit helpful to your team.

 

3)Mission, all you said implies going in the middle of battle. without aiming, manoeuvering and reactivity you’ll most likely be dead in seconds in T3 and above. and sniping the captain happens only if the ennemy captain is dumb. in 340 battles I’ve only had this situation once.

  1. Missile speed >>> Ship speed hard cap. Slowest missile, iirc, is the EM Torpedo, topping off at 750m/s. Fastest ones are Rockets, going at ~1500m/s. Ship speed caps at 700m/s. You do the math. It’s ALL about range and turn ratio with missiles. It’s also about missile spam because why the xxxx not, free refills.

 

  1. Modules depend on your playstyle. My Guard is a powerhouse. It has no solo ability, relying purely on outside help to regen. Two Engineers can’t rep me back to full, so I rely on me having ~ 50-60% shields all the way down to 30-40% armour to dish out the pain. Getting me down to armour on my Crus-S is one of the most frustrating things you’ll ever do, not to mention finishing the job. Federate Guards have a VERY different playstyle and require a lot more skill to fly, alongside actual regen modules.

 

  1. You’ve only played 340 battles? Well, that explains why you’re complaining so much.