In every competitive game skill IS a factor and people with same gear and more skill should* beat people with less skill, UNTIL people with low skill improve.
Now with 4x T3 facing 4x T5 is like me and 3 of my friends join F1 with our 15+ yo cars and hope to take the lead for at least 1 lap vs the latest bolides.
In every competitive game skill IS a factor and people with same gear and more skill should* beat people with less skill, UNTIL people with low skill improve.
Now with 4x T3 facing 4x T5 is like me and 3 of my friends join F1 with our 15+ yo cars and hope to take the lead for at least 1 lap vs the latest bolides.
Wow, what a profound statement that couldnt have been more spot on.
And that alone is what is runining the game. They thought that Kill Squads are a such a huge problem. Well the game PROMOTED team work! How is it BAD when a team works GOOD together!? Isnt that the whole point of a game?
NASA gets beat by some kill squads but it puts a fire in our hearts to be like them and eventually BEAT them!
Imagine antibus if you got with your best friends and just started this game in T1, but BECAUSE your’re in a squad of 4, the MM assumes you know what you are doing and throws you into a T2/3 dominated match!
some veterans don’t care about progression and just want to win to flatter their ego and show they’re the best…
If it wasn’t that easy to farm in fixed tier I’d love to have this system. But it’s far too easy for a veteran to come back to T1 (or even T2/T3), take a full synergy/purple ship and stomp everyone.
And I know there will be a lot of veteran who will do this, there were before mixed tier and I’m sure they’ll come back.
some veterans don’t care about progression and just want to win to flatter their ego and show they’re the best…
If it wasn’t that easy to farm in fixed tier I’d love to have this system. But it’s far too easy for a veteran to come back to T1 (or even T2/T3), take a full synergy/purple ship and stomp everyone.
And I know there will be a lot of veteran who will do this, there were before mixed tier and I’m sure they’ll come back.
Regardless if its tier locked or not, a veteran can and will go down to lower tiers regardless of reason. Its unavoidable.
Well i highly doubt anyone above 1000 battles will want to come play T1/2, UNLESS they want to synergise a ship. But that is the devs problem for forcing someone which would normally stay at the top, back down to grind some ships up.
BTW the difference between purples and blues are only like 5%. Very small. I have 450 artifacts and I refuse to use them because of the small differences in the Purples from MK3s.
some veterans don’t care about progression and just want to win to flatter their ego and show they’re the best…
If it wasn’t that easy to farm in fixed tier I’d love to have this system. But it’s far too easy for a veteran to come back to T1 (or even T2/T3), take a full synergy/purple ship and stomp everyone.
And I know there will be a lot of veteran who will do this, there were before mixed tier and I’m sure they’ll come back.
Not sure where all this “farming” in T1 by so called “skilled\veteran’s” coming from. What advantage is there to go to a lower tier if your SKILL rating is +300 or more than the average player in that group? No matter what your KILL rate is …all it takes is for ONE KILL by the opposing player to knock your SKILL rating down quite a bit… compared to what you would gain by a couple of kills on a lower rated players…
IMO “FARMING for Kills or even an attempt for higher DSR\SKILL” in lower level tiers is really counter productive ?
Not sure where all this “farming” in T1 by so called “skilled\veteran’s” coming from. What advantage is there to go to a lower tier if your SKILL rating is +300 or more than the average player in that group? No matter what your KILL rate is …all it takes is for ONE KILL by the opposing player to knock your SKILL rating down quite a bit… compared to what you would gain by a couple of kills on a lower rated players…
IMO “FARMING for Kills or even an attempt for higher DSR\SKILL” in lower level tiers is really counter productive ?
True. Hence why that SR is there.
If a player, me, gets killed in T1 ONCE, my SR will drop by 50 points, regardless win/loss.
But if I made like 20+ Kills and 20 assists and im number 1 in the leaderboards after the match, my SR only is gained by 10 or so.
But if I was doing that in a normal match within my intended tier and not die my SR will go straight up.
(Someone verify if this is true - Needs testing)
Veteran in T1 aren’t loking for DSR, neither credits, or voucher. They just want to get kill to show they’re good, or kill people to feel they’re good.
It’s not about being productive. I agree most inteligent veterans won’t do farming in lower tier. but idiot ones (and there are a few) will do it. And they will ruin newbies games
Veteran in T1 aren’t loking for DSR, neither credits, or voucher. They just want to get kill to show they’re good, or kill people to feel they’re good.
It’s not about being productive. I agree most inteligent veterans won’t do farming in lower tier. but idiot ones (and there are a few) will do it. And they will ruin newbies games
Well there few and far inbetween, its all about getting out of the T1 and moving up, avoiding them in the process. Besides what can 1 person do in a 16 v 16 match if he is a veteran, if the team sucks, the veteran on that side will lose, regardless of the kills or assists.
You will see that when you squad up though, you can have the power to beat a veteran. But the MM system PUNISHES you for squadding up. Thats why thats another problem with the MM system as is.
It needs to match Squads vs Squads in a game mode.
It needs to match Good with good, bad with bad. Thats what a Match Maker is for. Not for mixing everyone together and then EVERYONE does not have a sense of accomplishment. In mix tiers you even are confused on why your team won sometimes! Was it the gear? The tier? The player itself? So confusing.
LOCK THE TIERS! PREVENT FARMING! ALLOW SQUADS TO BE IN THE SAME TIER! Let me fly with my little brother again, as even when we are both T1, it boosts up our ranking to T2/3! and he wont play with me on the sole fact that there is mixed tiers. So sad.
Then if a veteran decides to play T1 in a very good ship and skill, he can’t be matched against a good player… so he will be able to farm (except if another one decide to do the same thing at the same time as him), that’s why I don’t want fixed tiers. there have been so much people staying in lower tier to have easier victories and raise their DSR/win ratio.
Quit using T1 as an example, T1 AND T2 should be tier locked. Let the new players learn. T3 and T4 can have a 1+ tier matching BUT ONLY if you’re in a 4 man squad.
P.S. The biggest problem with MM right now is the games population. Thats it! So if you’re quitting because of the current MM you’re only adding to the problem.
A1ttention: Poll has been changed a bit, we suggest you to vote again!
Now I don’t know what to vote honestly. The squad part is confusing, is that balanced squads in a 12v12 or just 4v4 matches for squads. I don’t have a problem with squads mixing with randoms in large matches that are balanced. T3 might return to how it used to be instead of advanced T2. No one wants matches where one squad just dominates. A lot needs done to make sure matches are balanced, not just who gets in the match. I don’t really have a problem with mixed tiers, so that R7 can fight R6, etc. I’d try to limit it to two ranks maximum but the playerbase decides a lot of that. I honestly consider it a little bit of a point of pride to be flying in T2 and see T3 on the other side, and make them lose.
I don’t think squads should have their own queue, otherwise you get squad gameplay and random gameplay and it complicates balance. But if it’s a four man T4 squad, they should be place against a four man T4 squad and not squad vs four randoms. A group of four people who may not share a common language shouldn’t be forced to figure out a gameplan against an organized squad.
Regardless of the outcome of the poll, Tier 1 must be locked no matter what, in order to protect the newcomers and give them time and space to learn the game without being humilliated. Make it a different queue where only players with less than 100 games can enter, and you won’t have to deal with the “veterans” farming the “n00bs”.
People will still need to change factions and they may not want to grind synergy in PvE. I imagine in the synergy to free synergy ratio were different more people would stick to higher tiers instead of dropping down tiers and just to level up ships using free synergy.
NASA gets beat by some kill squads but it puts a fire in our hearts to be like them and eventually BEAT them!
Whatever happened to Nasa going for objectives instead of DSR?
Not sure where all this “farming” in T1 by so called “skilled\veteran’s” coming from. What advantage is there to go to a lower tier if your SKILL rating is +300 or more than the average player in that group? No matter what your KILL rate is …all it takes is for ONE KILL by the opposing player to knock your SKILL rating down quite a bit… compared to what you would gain by a couple of kills on a lower rated players…
IMO “FARMING for Kills or even an attempt for higher DSR\SKILL” in lower level tiers is really counter productive ?
I’ve seen it more than once in T2. They aren’t grinding synergy in a T2 premium, they aren’t grinding credits in T2 anything, they’re only grinding DSR. I don’t know if they do it in T1. I imagine it is doable, only because 90% of T1 players suck because they’re brand new to the game.
P.S. The biggest problem with MM right now is the games population. Thats it! So if you’re quitting because of the current MM you’re only adding to the problem.
Scream that into the ears of everyone who says they quit because of MM. If you quit, you can’t test it and you can’t help make it better. If you’re not helping to make it better, you’re making it worse.
But this also goes back to Antibus and the devs. When changes are made to the matchmaker, communicate the changes so players can know. Other than Antibus’ comments in the patch notes thread about “has it happened after the patch?” there is nothing to say that matchmaker was adjusted in any sense. The only presumption of a change is posts like this. [http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/21659-star-conflict-obt-v099-discussion/?p=237273](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/21659-star-conflict-obt-v099-discussion/?p=237273)
I have been playing this game and reading these forums daily for the last 2 weeks and I have noticed a few things. I have 300+ battles logged and have just started to really buckle down with my tier 2 ships. The reason for this: I wanted to elite every tier 1 ship before i moved on to tier 2. Not only for the fleet strength bonus but so I learned each role in each faction and got a good foundation in the game. In other words, I wished to become skilled.
What does this have to do with MM? Well, I currently have a 1100+ SR, 3.20+ kill avg and 4.25 assist avg. Not mind blowing, I know, but I can assure you that I was not “farmed by vet players” and it wasnt because i luckily avoided them but because I learned to play strategically, tactically and appropriately to the ship I was in.
The second thing Ive noticed, due to my addiction to looking at the stats of almost every player I come into contact with or see in chat, is quite a few players that are T2 or T3 and have less than 100 pvp matches played. Obviously meaning that they have leveled in pve. What Ive noticed about them is that their pvp stats are abysmally bad in most cases even though those Ive seen in pvp matches tend to have a lot of purple gear. Leading me to believe that leveling in pve does not teach the skills to be competent at pvp. Skill > Gear.
Lastly, a lifetime of gaming has taught me that being the new guy, I can offer my opinion and observations about the portion of the game that I have played and experienced. T1 and T2 MM have not bothered me in the least BUT if the vets, who have been around and played at higher lvs than I have yet achieved, say that its a big mess up there…well, I tend to believe them.
The only real problem I have with MM is squads. I like to play in coordinated groups and I dont feel I should be punished for doing so.
Thats my humble opinion anyway.
I really hope it goes back to fixed tiers. The amount people that squadding up I see going on in NASA is noticeably less when compared with before devs started messing around with tiers/squad sizes. Perhaps this is coincidental, however I’m going to stick to the notion that it isn’t.
My train of thought is still “I’m not in a squad. I want to find a squad”, however I believe others are thinking “at least I will consistently get T3 games flying solo” and that’s an effing shame, but I don’t blame them for thinking that way, I blame whoever designed the MM system. I base my analysis & answer on pros and cons but the biggest “con”, that is; MM system is causing people to generally squad up less and that has a massive impact on the level of enjoyment I get from playing this game, please… please rectify…
I think we all agree on the fact that MM shouldn’t rank up squads. but the squad thing and mixed/fixed tiers are 2 different things ^^
I agree on the squad thing but not in the fixed thing
Quit using T1 as an example, T1 AND T2 should be tier locked. Let the new players learn. T3 and T4 can have a 1+ tier matching BUT ONLY if you’re in a 4 man squad.
P.S. The biggest problem with MM right now is the games population. Thats it! So if you’re quitting because of the current MM you’re only adding to the problem.
This.
I really hope it goes back to fixed tiers. The amount people that squadding up I see going on in NASA is noticeably less when compared with before devs started messing around with tiers/squad sizes. Perhaps this is coincidental, however I’m going to stick to the notion that it isn’t.
My train of thought is still “I’m not in a squad. I want to find a squad”, however I believe others are thinking “at least I will consistently get T3 games flying solo” and that’s an effing shame, but I don’t blame them for thinking that way, I blame whoever designed the MM system. I base my analysis & answer on pros and cons but the biggest “con”, that is; MM system is causing people to generally squad up less and that has a massive impact on the level of enjoyment I get from playing this game, please… please rectify…
I hear ya. Recently, I’ve been running in two-man squads. I’ve been flying Rank 8’s exclusively and so has my squad-mate. This allows us to maintain a MM value of 35 which keeps us in Tier 3 combat. However, if we decide to add another person to the squad or decide to run anything stronger than Rank 8’s, we have to scrap our current hangars and start fresh with something more competitive. If we are going to face T4’s, we have to bring our A-game.
While it is more or less “fair” to the other players who face us, it’s a real bother to go through this process over and over as the squad composition changes. It should be more streamlined. Less math, more action.
38 votes, only 16 on the board. When it was just with 1 page we had 7 votes on the option for fixed tiers including squads.
Few minutes later we had everything else same, but the option for fixed tiers + squads set to 0.
So, what is the point in voting anyway ?
The in-game vote seems … rigged. “Do not change anything” Really? I bet those are solo players t1-2.
We have changed the poll, but the votes remained - there was a first version, and there is now a second one, votes are for both them, but we will take into account the latter.
As we can see, the voters are not only t1, t2.
Also something that needs to be considered is the impact of squads in certain game modes.
In Beacon Hunt, everything is pretty straightforward. Voice communication during these games usually consists of “alright, next beacon” and “I got an (insert ship class) on me.” That is the level of coordination needed for that game mode. As such, squads can still lose to unorganized solo players who understand the game mode and fly well.
Domination is also fairly straightforward. The only coordination required is planning which beacon to attack or defend. That can be accomplished easily using the “All eyes on …” command. Squads are not necessarily going to win, but they help when defending or attacking a single location.
Detonation is where it gets tricky. An elite solo player can carry a team. A squad that works well together can also perform well enough to ensure victory. Frequently, I find opposing teams consisting of a single, well-organized squad and the rest of their team intuitively knows which moves to make next. Meanwhile, my squad flounders because five people on our team have chosen to play Long Range Frigates that round, and aren’t moving to cover beacons or to grab EMP bombs. Now my squad is facing an entire team without much help, and there is a squad on the other side that is well coordinated which makes things that much more difficult. Detonation is the game mode where I believe equal squads should face each other. A four-man squad running T3’s shouldn’t go up against a two-man or three-man squad flying T4’s either. The number advantage with regards to communication trumps any advantage gained by equipment.
in Combat Reconnaissance, I see a number of issues. There should be some tips that pop up on the screen when a player dies over and over in this mode, because some people just don’t seem to get it. When I see a squad of ESB’s on the other side, I know that to have a shot at winning we typically have to kill their captain quickly. ESB’s don’t tend to over-extend. They sit back and wait for the action to come to them. If I take off and try to attack the captain, other players on my team may follow suit. If we fail, they often do not recognize when the change in tactics needs to take place, so they will continue to fly into the teeth of the enemy until the other team’s kill count becomes insurmountable. Squads can be effective in protecting the friendly captain or assassinating the enemy captain. Due to this, I think squads in this game mode should always be equal in number and have similar equipment so that the results come down to teamwork and player skill.
What can I possibly say about Capture the Beacon that isn’t already well known. In 90% of these games, one or more players from each team will rush in and try to be a hero. When they lose all their ships after three or four minutes, their team is at a disadvantage. If we are to make this game mode fair, we need squads to be absolutely equal. By that I mean four-man squads should face four-man squads. Not two squads of two. In another scenario; a team consisting of a four-man squad and a two man squad should not be pitted against a team consisting of two three-man squads or any other combination that isn’t absolutely equal.
I understand that with player base not being what we want it to be, some of my ideas are not workable at present. I am not banging my fist on the table and demanding these changes now. I think they should be examined and tested, then “put on the back burner” to be implemented later, when the player base is sufficient to handle them.
Thanks for reading. What is everyone else’ opinion?
Right now getting rid of mixed tiers has over 50%. The biggest thing changing votes is about squads. I think the poll’s somewhat flawed for that reason.
We all want fixed tiers. The problem is that some people are afraid of “kill squads” farming them.
I really do not care. I have been farmed by kill squads in T3 for a month or so until I improved and now I can be competitive even when I queue solo. But I guess some people’s ego gets destroyed when they play a game for 2 days and do no dominate veterans playing for monthS before them.
My opinion :
Fixed Tiers.
Squad MM - I prefer not to have 5 ESB 4 Nasa and 1 random vs 10 randoms like 1 of my matches last night. It was so … boring.
I would’ve rather had ESB + pug vs NASA + pug.
But again - when I fly r11 and 12 I want to face R10-12.
I feel bad in small games 3v3 or 4v4 when the whole enemy team consists of T5, BUT I also feel bad when I solo que and see more than 2 people in enemy team flying 1x T3 and 2x T2 ships, while I am in T4. Stomping lower levels for me, personally, gets boring way too fast.
“We all want fixed tiers” => false, I don’t want
"I really do not care. I have been farmed by kill squads in T3 for a month or so " Some people care, they even leave for this reason. so you’re basically telling them to go away. if you are old enough to work, would you say to your customer “go away, you aren’t fit for what we do” ? That’s why the dev are trying to propose something to please everyone (currently it doesn’t, that’s why there is a poll).
