Poll on the match making. November, 8th.

This came up on TS while gaming. The vets all pretty much agree that we want fixed tiers so we can have clear cut game modes.

T5 would be the old T4. T4 would be the old T3. T3… Nobody is really sure what that would become, but certainly the better players seem to want to jump ship and move up and out from T3 matches.

Personally, I think it’d become a hybrid of the game styles. It’d have team focus and Corp presence, but not the heavy hitters and not in high numbers. It would effectively be a buffer tier to let pilots get accustomed to ideas like “squads are powerful” or “flying solo is bad”, but while still not necessarily punishing the solo queue.

I still want to see this hardcore pro aka Griffon ingame to see why he likes mixed tiers. 

I still want to see this hardcore pro aka Griffon ingame to see why he likes mixed tiers. 

with 2 battles a day, I don’t think you will  :lol:

I just hope the devs make the right decision next week or whatever.

with 2 battles a day, I don’t think you will  :lol:

I just hope the devs make the right decision next week or whatever.

 

I just don’t want something like the last patch, 1 week waiting for nothing xD

I already fought residence 3 times… if I remember correctly killed you once, you killed me something like 2-3 times xD with mk3 or mk4 ^^ (my highest equiped gear is mk2 ^^).

Another great day in Star Conflict:

 

matchmakingpieceofcrap.jpg

 

Antibus, you said ships shouldn’t face 2 tiers higher. Those are R15s vs R9s in a 3 man squad. What the xxxx is this xxxx?!

 

Seriously, fix this xxxx piece of xxxx you xxxx xxxx. xxxx devs. xxxx game.

 

xxxx this xxxx.

I already fought residence 3 times… if I remember correctly killed you once, you killed me something like 2-3 times xD with mk3 or mk4 ^^ (my highest equiped gear is mk2 ^^).

 

Tell me your ingame name… you know who I am but Idk who you are, not fair  :beee:

Another great day in Star Conflict:

 

matchmakingpieceofcrap.jpg

 

Antibus, you said ships shouldn’t face 2 tiers higher. Those are R15s vs R9s in a 3 man squad. What the xxxx is this xxxx?!

 

Seriously, fix this xxxx piece of xxxx you xxxx xxxx. xxxx devs. xxxx game.

 

xxxx this xxxx.

 

I can’t imagine what a T5 ESB ship could do to your T3 ships. 

 

BUT DON’T WORRY LOCKING TIERS IS UNFAIR BECAUSE SQUADS DOMINATE THE GAME!!!111ONE

BUT FIGHTING +2 TIERS SHIPS ISN’T UNFAIR AND IT DOESN’T MEAN THEY’RE GOING TO WIN

Another great day in Star Conflict:

 

matchmakingpieceofcrap.jpg

 

Antibus, you said ships shouldn’t face 2 tiers higher. Those are R15s vs R9s in a 3 man squad. What the xxxx is this xxxx?!

 

Seriously, fix this xxxx piece of xxxx you xxxx xxxx. xxxx devs. xxxx game.

 

xxxx this xxxx.

This is something that people defending mixed tiers (like our beloved and wise Griffon) should see: It’s fair or balanced to try and make a squad of 3 persons and end up figthing enemies 2 tiers higher? What would YOU do if this happens to you? Be happy and start jumping in one leg while clapping this hideous abortion of nature that is this MatchMaking system?

I DON’T CARE facing Rank 9 ships fully sinergized and purple while using MY own T3 ships (none of them fully sinergized nor blue/purple), because the difference between Mk2 and Mk4 ain’t that big (speaking of the same tier equipment), but instead the difference between Mk2 T3 equipment and Mk4 T5 equipment is ABYSMAL, plus they have 6 implants of adventage, some of them xxxx OP.

I’ve had many matches where  I fought people two tiers higher then me lately it’s really discouraging

Another great day in Star Conflict:

matchmakingpieceofcrap.jpg

Antibus, you said ships shouldn’t face 2 tiers higher. Those are R15s vs R9s in a 3 man squad. What the xxxx is this xxxx?!

 

Seriously, fix this xxxx piece of xxxx you xxxx xxxx. xxxx devs. xxxx game.

 

xxxx this xxxx.

Yep, it’s still occuring en-gros. I’ve faced constant crap like this the last few days we went in full 4-man squads, only to quit the game right after in disappointment. Can’t wait for early next year to switch…

The question is, what you did tell them theodrak ? Because this kind of person is easily manipulated according to what side you show them. I’m sure if I talked to them only telling them my point of view, there would be even more people for mixed tiers.

 

I could take offense at your assumptions but I wont. I explained both sides of the argument actually. The reason I did that? I am not experienced enough in this game (350 battles, max ship is rank 6, 23 ships owned/17 elite) to know how MM affects T3 and higher.

 

I have stated before that I dont have a problem with MM at T1 and 2 EXCEPT for the way squads are being treated currently. Guess why all those ppl I talked to would like to change from option 1 to something else? Because of squads. Which, if I remember correctly, you, yourself have said is a problem and should be changed.

 

Instead, we have a poll that shows that nothing should change because so many ppl are not reading the options or even paying attention to what the poll is about. That helps neither “the vets” you are so opposed to or your case, in this matter.

 

Quite frankly though, from what Ive read, it seems that you are just eager to jump on the “you dont think exactly as I do, so Ill assume you are a self centered scumbag” attack if its even hinted that someone isnt praising your idea as the right one. Thats one step above pure troll, imo. Just be careful with all the talk of calling other ppl selfish and only interested in what is best for them and their stats because, as the old buddhist mantra says, “we judge in others what we find within ourselves”. Psychologists call it projection.

The reason why for a T1 - 2 player the MM looks good is because it is the most populated area of the game, along T3 which is slightly lower. And there are factors deciding that. Some would be: newbies trying the game (the biggest pool), newbies who didn’t quit yet (the second biggest pool), vets chillaxing (holy crap there’s lots of them doing this!) and vets synergising new ship trees and maybe a few more. T3 has vets gathered from T4 and 5 as well. T4 and 5 are nearly abandoned.

 

So in T1 and 2 it’s fairly easy and fast to get a somewhat balanced game purely because of sheer amounts of people. I’ve recently been there and checked it (sometime post 0.9.9). You can easily see this in the queue chart given by the chat command as well. Even for squads it is sligthly better in those tiers because the chances for the enemy team to have a squad of it’s own is higher. With T3+ everything changes in the opposite way.

 

The fixed tiers skill-differentiated queuing is the only true way out, like it or not, period. Done some extensive thinking and in conclusion i can only see all tiers split in 3 sections: casual players vs casual players, average vs average, elite vs elite. Squadding will influence as well where you would be put (+ pilots’ skill ofc and ALSO influenced by playing time - see below). The game approaching release must make devs stop taking in account the current playerbase and think ahead. It’s a beta that’s almost over.

 

Now let’s step to a really big problem among ALL of MM’s deciding factors: playing time. A guy (especially a newbie) who plays, say 3-5 battles a day will ofc be below the level of one playing 20+ battles a day, even if they fall under the same category as casual, average or elite. That has to have a deciding factor in MM as well.

 

Personally i didn’t properly get to see the pre-0.8 fixed tier match making system, i joined directly in 0.8. Being a beta i thought i might as well join into the forums to see what’s gonna go on with every update and probably help with suggestions and tweaking problems together with other people. However i felt the reverb of fixed tiers in 0.8. Matches were at THE WORST CASE having a +1 rank ship out of their tier. So if it was a T3 game, you ~might~ have encountered a R10 ship every now and then. R11 was so rare that it was worth noting in the calendar. However with every patch drawing closer to 0.9 it was getting more and more screwed up, till today when we get +8 ranks above ships in matches… like wtf?

So yea, in my very honest opinion: early 0.8 had a freaking amazing matchmaking (since i started playing, i’ll let the others compare to pre-0.8).

 

Here are some graphics i made to illustrate stuff:

 

1.

1WcuQ6Al.jpg

 

Current MM:

78209df40193c845398b72c87522.jpg

 

2.

ptOg2FLl.jpg

 

3.

XBiyWsVl.jpg

My suggestion is shown in the first graph. As you can see, all 3 are nice and linear and they fully range from T1 to T5, barred between each tier. Skill levels and squads are allowed to overlap by only 1 unit up or down vertically, given the situations i described before the spoiler paragraph.

Current MM compared to that barely has a clear explanation anywhere in a dev blog or forum post or anywhere else and is just a complete mindf*ck. And i am being serious about this description.

The normal progression rate in time (at 2.) should look like that, from day 1 in SCon to day whatever, with in-betweens, those being the upper and lower limits, with average in-between. But right now it looks like at 3. Since the squad-bumb-f*ck-up, casuals are pretty much put on stop, average will split into people who can cope with it and people who can’t, while elites will spring in full power getting new tactics and concepts about how the game works, and creating an incredible gap between them and the rest at a fast pace. As a matter of fact i started playing emp LRF ~hardcore~ (basically grinding for Styx) 3 days ago. The difference gap was never this high between me and any other average or lower player as i constantly know i’m safe, i can defend myself against all high-average attacks and can safely treat my ship as a complete gunship in the heat of the front line instead of chillaxing at the back all the time. It has to take another elite player i already know to take me down (or even 2 given my progression with it) while it takes me a lazy push of 1-2 buttons to wipe the space dust with a high-average placed player.

 

Want another skill progression tree image with current MM + squad mechanics? Look here (just add ‘SCon squads’ next to Eve Online):

2335016192_6003c39c4c_z.jpg?zz=1

 

TL;DR - Fixed tiers with self-differentiated skill levels is the only good solution imo for a fun and fair game. They both lack now 95% (5% is just the late matches where i did all possible bullsh*t instead of objectivesm, except one-shot sniping an ECM captain yesterday as ‘First Blood’ in a few seconds after start).

I have 30K GS sitting there. But I refuse to spend a DIME of it on anything that is unreasonable. 

I think 30k GS is a little unreasonable.  Maybe buy all the fed T4 premiums?  Buying all the T1 premiums for a synergy boost is only 7650 GS.  Then you have leftover for T2 premiums, which would be 12870 GS for all of them.  That will take care of about 20k GS and give an 18% synergy boost!

 

My GS is a tenth of yours, but sometimes I get the same view.  Even getting a license is overpriced compared to alternatives for the amount I can play without significant risk of distraction.

 

But you did say increase GS cost =P

 

Anyway, 500 is way too much. 250 is just fine. You say 500 because you, like many other pilots, already have a few million points stockpiled. But you have to think of both extremes.

Right now the sole purpose of synergy transfer is to say “I do not want to fly this this!”  Combining a license, premium ammunition, perhaps even boosters will result in a far cheaper grind.

 

This came up on TS while gaming. The vets all pretty much agree that we want fixed tiers so we can have clear cut game modes.

I think +/- 2 ranks is better than fixed tiers.  I still couldn’t play an R12 in a decently sized match, but I could safely avoid 1v1 bot matches in an R10.

 

I just don’t want something like the last patch, 1 week waiting for nothing xD

Remember the week we were dealing with reticle issues and we didn’t get a patch?  That was waiting for nothing.  The last patch was…I’d have to look again, but it happened!

[…]

 

I DON’T CARE facing Rank 9 ships fully sinergized and purple while using MY own T3 ships (none of them fully sinergized nor blue/purple), because the difference between Mk2 and Mk4 ain’t that big (speaking of the same tier equipment), but instead the difference between Mk2 T3 equipment and Mk4 T5 equipment is ABYSMAL, plus they have 6 implants of adventage, some of them xxxx OP.

Many months ago the community began the conversation on the issue of balancing ships/modules across tiers. Critical leaps between tiers were identified in these discussions, most notably the large jump from T2 to T3 and from T4 to T5, caused by differing module and implant availability amongst other factors. For this reason, all discussions from v.0.7.12* onwards have specifically split references to individual tiers as what is applicable in one tier might be irrelevant in another.

 

Following this line of thought, the idea of mixing tiers is counter-intuitive. When the MM jumps a team across one of the major tier gaps, this difference is felt even more so than usual. Those R13 implants, for example, completely change the pace of a match.

 

*Interestingly enough, mixing tiers was also discussed in this patch.

Heaven forbid if we’re not penalized every step of the way for actually doing good >.<   Even solo queueing I’ll start out winning about 5-10 in a row and then the horrible horrible teams start coming my way.   I’m sorry I can carry some teams to victory but when you have 5 LRF in a detonation match or even worse nobody brings an Engi in combat recon, there’s not much you can do to stop the inevitable defeat…just try and minimize your deaths.

 

I find exactly the same thing, the better I do the harder it becomes for me to do well, captains making absurd choices of ship, and excessive numbers of LRF in almost every game mode coupled with some people who simply don’t do anything but wait for the end of the match.

don’t hurt players for playing well put them with/against other good players!

 

Antibus, you don’t get paid to vote in government elections. Moreover, the candidates go to great lengths to explain what benefits they offer and why you should vote for them.

Now let’s compare the two polls:

FORUM: No reward. Supporters make cases for each option, explaining the strengths of their desired option and the weaknesses of the others. This allows anyone who reads the forums to make an informed vote. Just like government, in fact.

GAME: monetary reward for votng. No explanation of what you are voting for or the impact it will have on the game. This is NOT fair.

Antibus, seriously, hammer this point home to the devs: this poll is perhaps their last chance to win back their players. If they give us back fixed tiers it will sho, beyond doubt, that they DO listen, they DO care, and that they ARE trying to make the game better.

We want Fixed Tiers because it is better for the game. We want it so we can try and win back all those players who quit. We want it so people will come to the game and see a game with depth, where skill counts and every tier offers a different style of play. Moreover, we want a game we can big up to others.

This might shock you, but I don’t enjoy talking xxxx about this game. I do it because the Devs have spent six months destroying what might have been one of the best arcade space shooters I’ve played this decade. I want that back. I want SC to be the game I fell in love with. I want it to be the game my friends fell in love with. I want it to hit launch and not need to advertise because word of mouth has already done all the work.

But that won’t happen unless the Devs make it happen. This is where they decide; a game players love and tell people about, or a game that players slag off across the internet as a money-whoring scam.

This is why we need Fixed Tiers back. Please make them make the right choice.

 

there is already talk among my group of friends of abandoning this game because of the crazy match making system, yea we can sometimes win against t4 ships in a t2 but that’s not really the point, it is no fun fighting an uphill battle simply because your opponents have better gear than you through no fault of your own, it wouldn’t bother us at all if people actually flew better than we did and beat us.

 

level the playing field and stop this madness of facing ships 6 ranks above you!

 

I have only been playing for just over a month, and I can see this game for what it could be, which is amazing, but if match making is going to continue to cause me to be at the bottom of the pile in terms of ship level until I reach the highest level of ships then there is a problem, what happens when I’m at the highest level? you cant then match me with higher level players because there are none, will the system just completely fail to find me a match ever?

stop trying to fix skilled players by putting them against ships of the wrong tier.

 

sadly this may very well be my last post if something is not done to change this.

 

leafy

See the current voting in-game, really sad…

wall of text and graphs

 

 

My mind is blown. This is a very good analysis that shows how much the balance cracks in higher tiers. It is just crazy.

 

 

 

I find exactly the same thing, the better I do the harder it becomes for me to do well, captains making absurd choices of ship, and excessive numbers of LRF in almost every game mode coupled with some people who simply don’t do anything but wait for the end of the match.

don’t hurt players for playing well put them with/against other good players!

 

 

there is already talk among my group of friends of abandoning this game because of the crazy match making system, yea we can sometimes win against t4 ships in a t2 but that’s not really the point, it is no fun fighting an uphill battle simply because your opponents have better gear than you through no fault of your own, it wouldn’t bother us at all if people actually flew better than we did and beat us.

 

level the playing field and stop this madness of facing ships 6 ranks above you!

 

I have only been playing for just over a month, and I can see this game for what it could be, which is amazing, but if match making is going to continue to cause me to be at the bottom of the pile in terms of ship level until I reach the highest level of ships then there is a problem, what happens when I’m at the highest level? you cant then match me with higher level players because there are none, will the system just completely fail to find me a match ever?

stop trying to fix skilled players by putting them against ships of the wrong tier.

 

sadly this may very well be my last post if something is not done to change this.

 

leafy

 

Another sad story, and I fully agree. This is complete madness and they should stop it now.

Sure people shouldn’t face 2 tiers higher. Since it “shouldn’t” I suppose that you waited more than 5 minutes and MM (means there weren’t any opponent available for your level) and that MM then put you where it could (at the bad place). I think the whole problem is about that 5min thingy that makes MM go crazy. They should raise it to something like 20min.

 

What should MM do if there isn’t any opponent at your level ? Currently it does match you even higher. Should it match lower ? I guess not. Should it wait more then ? 

 

@Theodrak : It wasn’t offense, but JasanQuinn took what you said like “everyone I talked in chat wanted to change to mixed tiers” and since you didn’t say (know ?) what the people you talked to would change their vote to. We don’t know. And even in presenting the two choices, it’s often hard to be neutral (I know most people aren’t). But what you did was good, teaching begginners is always good for the community.

Right now the sole purpose of synergy transfer is to say “I do not want to fly this this!”  Combining a license, premium ammunition, perhaps even boosters will result in a far cheaper grind.

xxxx that noise! Spending money on a game that gives precisely zero xxxx about its community? Hell no, I’m not spending another cent until actual progress is shown.