9 hours ago, GatoGrande said:
NO,
hot joining killed this and survival too,
domination is also crap with hot joining.
Hot joining should be removed for this.
I didn’t like when hot joined and one cap was already killed and I doubt that anyone like when that happened.
But I agree with you it was one of best if not the best game mode.
Hot-joining needs to go first, then we can talk about the Matchmaker and PvP balancing.
5 hours ago, ComWittman said:
the lower rank ships got buffs
your post is legit, the thing most forget to mention is that in addition to ridiculous low(er) rank buffs, is the 10-15% nerf to R13-17. What you see in the hangar isn’t what you get in PvP. I build my ships to perform a certain way, the nerfs/buffs kill the “balance” that we’re told they are attempting. I’ve been bitching about low rank buffs since day 1. It was stupid then & it’s stupid now. A ship is supposed to be what it is according to how it’s built, not something some dev thinks it should be after the PvP nerfs/buffs kick in.
7 minutes ago, SMOKEYSHADOWS said:
your post is legit, the thing most forget to mention is that in addition to ridiculous low(er) rank buffs, is the 10-15% nerf to R13-17. What you see in the hangar isn’t what you get in PvP. I build my ships to perform a certain way, the nerfs/buffs kill the “balance” that we’re told they are attempting. I’ve been bitching about low rank buffs since day 1. It was stupid then & it’s stupid now. A ship is supposed to be what it is according to how it’s built, not something some dev thinks it should be after the PvP nerfs/buffs kick in.
There were several request from players addressed on developers to show players exact Buff and Nerf scale that is in use for different ranks of ships in PvP.
Requests were never answered from any developer.
This was-is not the way how to treat players in game.
Replay to players is one more thing that developers and game managers should improve a lot.
I don’t care what any of you guys say, it is obvious this new system of mixing newer players with experienced vets is a terrible idea. I understand in times when not many people are playing its better than nothing, but who in the world would think its a good idea to change the formula that made this game successful?
I’ve spent almost 5 years progressing up the ship tree and building my special ships now. So it’s incredibly underwhelming when I fly through a match and I’m on a killing spree and I start to get excited… then i go check what everyone’s ship ranks are and half the enemy team is a bunch of Nooobs. Makes me not even want to finish the game just turn off my PC and go play something with better matchmaking…
Even if you give a player with a rank 7 ship bonuses he has no flying fAck of an idea of what he is doing against r14 destroyers and r17 ships with all these special abilities. That player is a liability not an asset no matter how you break it down. It’s BS and it needs to never happen in this game.
Now if someone with r15 ships equipped wants to fly in with a rank 8 ship, I don’t see as much of a problem because we know that player has experience at that level already. But the game was just plain better when the ranks were strictly split. I have to incredibly strongly disagree with those hot shots at the top who think they have it all figured out.
In my opinion the game will continue to fail if you make new players on their first week play guys like me who will mop the floor with them the whole game and never die.
They will quit. And Star Conflict will eventually die.
Which would break my heart because Star Conflict is one of the best games ever made.
Please, please go back to skill-based matchmaking.
I recently came across SC because I got burnt out playing other games that have no (working) skill-based MM, and I’m fed up playing in teams with huge skill disparities.
And now you introduce that in SC as well. 
Just today, I had several games where most of one team (6+ players, no AI) seemingly was content to just sit around near spawn, farming meaningless dmg/kills, giving up all beacons and waiting for the inevitable defeat. That didn’t happen last week, it’s not enjoyable to me, and unless the matchmaking finds a way to keep tryhards and “just farming my quest”-ppl separated, I’ll eventually move on again.
And “has a rank 27 ship” is no indication of “is trying to win in PvP”. (Nor of “plays well”, by the way.) Especially with so many PvP quests that reward things other than straight up winning.
You can have a team-based random-queue PvP game without skill-based MM. But then there’s a very simple dominant strategy: Avoid everyone with equal or better skill and farm the lowest skill players on the opposing team as hard as possible. IMHO that’s not fun. At all. And if you really want that gameplay, then vs AI provides it.
On 8/15/2018 at 8:50 PM, GatoGrande said:
[@xKostyan](< base_url >/index.php?/profile/236074-xkostyan/)
Remember this?
This should be implemented as well
Guys, this already IS implemented. Its called CoOp vs AI. Thats where some newbee goes to train and get better. Thats where all the points are 60% less so one doesnt feel like they are being bullied. Once they have some training and knowledge there, they queue up for PvP. So we dont really need any type of filtering system between players and ships selected by ranks on the pads.
Ok, Im also going to say another reason more personal to me as to why we dont need a babies-tier. Some tier only for new members.
There are many times I go down into the low ranks to actually kill the new players. Period. Not to troll them or pick on them, but as a round about way of Corporate Recruiting. If Im go there and kill off a few newbees using the very same ships they have, they will see the corporate tag next to my name and in a subconscious way begin to think that being in a corp is better then going it alone. Its a PR stunt at times.
Members go to the lower levels for all types of different reasons. We should not be filtered or restricted from doing so. If some newbee feels that PvP is too hard for him, then queue up in CoOp vs AI and go train or level up that ship and its modules THEN come back to PvP.
13 hours ago, Koromac said:
Hot-joining needs to go first, then we can talk about the Matchmaker and PvP balancing.
HA! a MM Option right there…
JOIN BATTLE ALREADY IN PROGRESS…Y / N
Yes, the User is placed into existing battles. Pro, he gets queued faster. Con, he gets into a battle on the loosing side. Oh well, its HIS choice since he turned on the option.
No, the User is placed into fresh battles. Pro, the battle starts from the beginning and a tactical plan can be derived. Con, Longer wait times. But again the USERs choice and no one forced it upon him to wait in queue. That what he wants. And if he whines about long wait times I will cloak up in my Singularity and stalk him on the battle field and park behind him and take him out with a doomsday and recloak up again before it even strikes.
My option would be set to the Y setting. I love to come into ongoing battles and even followed by others and we are the loosing team at the time of the first spawn-in and it is the late guys that end up being the ones to turn the tides of the battle and produce a win. One, because many of times a winning team will start to relax thinking they have it in the bag and are spawn camping. Two, I may die at that spawn camp the first time inbound, but I will then see the entire battle for a few moments, adjust my tactics and ship selection and come inbound again, this time forcing that camp to break up and start dealing with me or start to die one by one as I target and weaken them.
So again, some players like Hot Joins, others dont. Cant please them both with only one iteration of software so get that MM Options Panel up and running and give the players what THEY want. Some want YES and some want NO. From a development point of view, that is neither, its an Option.
2 hours ago, _Vu_ said:
Guys, this already IS implemented. Its called CoOp vs AI. Thats where some newbee goes to train and get better. Thats where all the points are 60% less so one doesnt feel like they are being bullied.
You don’t learn anything in PvAi.
PvAi is teaching players to use Destroyers to survive and we all know that this is false in PvP.
Domination is meh in PvAi since if you just cap beacons fast you don’t even need to engage Ai ships so again that will never happen in PvP domination.
PvAi and PvE is just relax play for players to level ships and for player who just don’t like to play against live opponents…
2 hours ago, _Vu_ said:
Once they have some training and knowledge there, they queue up for PvP.
What is preventing new players to enter PvP from first game they play?
2 hours ago, _Vu_ said:
So we dont really need any type of filtering system between players and ships selected by ranks on the pads.
We need First tier just for them,
exactly because players like you that are not especially good in higher tiers and are farming new players in first tier with some lame excuse.
2 hours ago, _Vu_ said:
Ok, Im also going to say another reason more personal to me as to why we dont need a babies-tier. Some tier only for new members.
There are many times I go down into the low ranks to actually kill the new players. Period. Not to troll them or pick on them, but as a round about way of Corporate Recruiting.
Heh this way you just build your own stats,
you can easy recruit players when they get in T2.
Also as far as I know corporation that have the best PvP players never pick new players until they have certain rank of ships and until they have certain number of games played.
2 hours ago, _Vu_ said:
If Im go there and kill off a few newbees using the very same ships they have,
Another bull sh I t.
[@xKostyan](< base_url >/index.php?/profile/236074-xkostyan/) was using R9 premium DCL gunship to fight in first tier against new players.
I will point on this again, new players should have first tier just for themselves and when they reach certain rank or play certain number of game then they should advance to Tier 2 and play against players like you and other farmers.
2 hours ago, _Vu_ said:
they will see the corporate tag next to my name and in a subconscious way begin to think that being in a corp is better then going it alone. Its a PR stunt at times.
You can do all that in T2 too.
2 hours ago, _Vu_ said:
Members go to the lower levels for all types of different reasons. We should not be filtered or restricted from doing so.
Again cr ap, there is no real reason for veteran players to go play against new players in T1 then to improve sh it stats that they have in higher tiers.
2 hours ago, _Vu_ said:
If some newbee feels that PvP is too hard for him, then queue up in CoOp vs AI and go train or level up that ship and its modules THEN come back to PvP.
Again you don’t learn anything in PvAi that will benefit you at real PvP.
New players will just begin to hate PvP and play only PvE or PvAi.
2 hours ago, _Vu_ said:
HA! a MM Option right there…
JOIN BATTLE ALREADY IN PROGRESS…Y / N
Yes, the User is placed into existing battles. Pro, he gets queued faster. Con, he gets into a battle on the loosing side. Oh well, its HIS choice since he turned on the option.
No, the User is placed into fresh battles. Pro, the battle starts from the beginning and a tactical plan can be derived. Con, Longer wait times. But again the USERs choice and no one forced it upon him to wait in queue. That what he wants. And if he whines about long wait times I will cloak up in my Singularity and stalk him on the battle field and park behind him and take him out with a doomsday and recloak up again before it even strikes.
My option would be set to the Y setting. I love to come into ongoing battles and even followed by others and we are the loosing team at the time of the first spawn-in and it is the late guys that end up being the ones to turn the tides of the battle and produce a win. One, because many of times a winning team will start to relax thinking they have it in the bag and are spawn camping. Two, I may die at that spawn camp the first time inbound, but I will then see the entire battle for a few moments, adjust my tactics and ship selection and come inbound again, this time forcing that camp to break up and start dealing with me or start to die one by one as I target and weaken them.
So again, some players like Hot Joins, others dont. Cant please them both with only one iteration of software so get that MM Options Panel up and running and give the players what THEY want. Some want YES and some want NO. From a development point of view, that is neither, its an Option.
Only thing what is good with HOT JOINING is short waiting time to get new game.
I don’t know how you can say that entering Domination when one team is holding all beacons 900;400 is a good game?
Or when playing Detonation and we even don’t get in game and just observe how the bomb is delivered to the last beacon? How is this good game?
I just had Team battle that the enemy team was already spawn camping how is this god when you hot join in the middle of them alone?
Why don’t we have Combat recon? Because it was bad game when you joined and the captain was already killed.
I personally don’t like to enter a game that is already over I doubt that anyone does.
2 hours ago, _Vu_ said:
HA! a MM Option right there…
JOIN BATTLE ALREADY IN PROGRESS…Y / N
1
This could be an option four years ago, but now the number of players is to low to split them even more.
For me, this poll is perfect and clear. Almost 80% for one answer-multiple tiers.
And on Russian forum result is not much different 70% for multiple tiers.
If developers are smart they will make new polls fast,
and Hot joining could be one of the next top them,
unneeded buffs and nerfs in PvP next one and so on.
Regardless of what happens, something absolutely has to be changed concerning ship buffs.
I see why it was done, but as is often the case there’s a disparity between theory and practice. If you can do more damage in a Rank 5 ship than a Rank 15, why bother getting a Rank 15? It’s a perverse incentive.
So that needs to be critical - there needs to be a reason to move up ranks. Thought needs to be given to the typical player’s habit of adopting FOO strategies - that is, adopting whatever gives them the most power for the least effort. For example, if a player can deal 5,000 damage in a single hit by flying a low-rank ship and using the hidden “balance” buffs, why would anyone bother trying to deal 5,000 damage a hit by using a Rank 15 ship and carefully timing buffs and debuffs between themselves and allies?
6 hours ago, JasanQuinn said:
Regardless of what happens, something absolutely has to be changed concerning ship buffs.
I see why it was done, but as is often the case there’s a disparity between theory and practice. If you can do more damage in a Rank 5 ship than a Rank 15, why bother getting a Rank 15? It’s a perverse incentive.
It is not as simple as hurr-durr low ranks do more dmg, dmg in itself is pointless, dmg delivery is a different story.
If you want to oversimplify (which I hate to do) that is low ranks get high “raw” dmg and survivability, but they lack customization, scalability, and utility of higher ranked ships.
A big thing is a scalability:
- You can scale your survivability via Agility - low ranks get none of that, they are flying bricks
You can scale your dmg (by a lot by the way) via crit and crit dmg, low ranks get some crits, based on rank and role, but not the crit dmg
All low-rank weapons have shorter range and lower projectile speed.
Right now, in every ship rank playing together setting, the sweet spot for ships with most customization (prem ships) and access to almost highest ranked weapons plus same base ranks are around ranks 9-12. But a major part of their versatility is first of all access to modules (prem ships) vs r15 prems, 9-12 simply has modules with stronger effects.
Everything below R9 is one trick ponies, and to be honest, there are like 2 good one trick ponies, kalah and archelon comes to mind, and couple that is ok too, everything else is just bullet sponges with next to no power projection.
Imho ship ranks 1-8 should play in own sandbox, rank 9-17 with some module shuffling and rank bonuses are perfectly fine with each other
As long as these brackets are layered under some arbitrary “skill checks”.
There is zero excuse to put pedo-bears and smurfs in the same queue with low-ranked new players, regardless of what rank of the ship this smurf have selected, they are good enough to play low ranked ships with better players in higher ranked ships.
It just really hard to quantify “skill”
I am surprised how many people came to vote for this poll, almost seems a bit funky.
21 hours ago, Prowlaz said:
Now if someone with r15 ships equipped wants to fly in with a rank 8 ship, I don’t see as much of a problem because we know that player has experience at that level already.
but that’s what’s happening anyway. problem was, that if a guy did that in the tiered system, he got down to the nubs.
and with the way the ships were balanced, linearly, it made no sense to play any ship that is more than one rank below the maximum in any queue.
this destroys diversity of choice.
On 8/15/2018 at 7:41 PM, JasanQuinn said:
With the game in its current state there are an insane number of ships, weapons, passives, actives and specials, and on top of that you’ve also got the essential fundamentals.
with the game in its current state, there is also an insane number of insane stuff. from useless to must-have, the amount of effects and modules reflects much more a korean hack and slice mmo around the millenium, than anything playable. it does not matter, how gradually you introduce a player to a sauce, that will have just too many flavours.
much of this stuff feels artsy and over the top. instead of making the game more diverse, it actually dilutes good choices.
nobody gets into a game like this, who wants serious competitive gaming, or better goes straight to star trek online, which at least has even tenfolds the amount of shiny twinkles.
you need to be able to repeat playing, and feel like you are busy playing your units, instead of grinding for the ships upstairs, because yours does not make sense, to get a feel of teamplay.
also, no idea how the heck they want to balance this, with how slow and full of errors their balancing methods were in the past.
On 8/15/2018 at 4:26 PM, xKostyan said:
People do not get equalization, plus equalization does not work equally for all ships.
it is funny to read this at the start and then go through all the posts, where i think many do not even get that they say opposite things. they are like introductionary words.
On 8/15/2018 at 4:26 PM, xKostyan said:
We have been dancing around tiered and tierless system matchmaking for years, and unless you consolidate your ship progression tree , making it less 'vertical" and more “horizontal” (condensing ships in same ranks, like having 3-5 ranks instead of 15) your tierless** system will never settle in the player’s mind** plus you wont be able to properly balance the ships with just ranked bonuses. Even though the unified system where all ships play together is much better than the restricted tiered system.
but this game has people who like the open space, the pve, one guy who likes the grind, and a history of alienating the pvp players which came with a no-grind hardcore attitude.
i for one would whish they look at long term success stories in the arena genre, like MWO, instead of constantly shifting their focus to find some new gameplay by adding yet another 100 assets into the mix.
On 8/15/2018 at 4:55 PM, ORCA1911 said:
Couldn’t have said it any better, perhaps if we also shrink the ship numbers with a tierless system it would be a really good start towards balance ideas that will stay. (by shrink i mean ships that have different roles but same texture design like idk crusader for instance, instead of 3 ships you have one that has loadout options, less grind, more depth, visually appealing, less work when in need to change textures or whatever customisation issues may come, just an idea dont bust my ballz plez)
i like this.
this is something that mwo does well imho. it adds a new chassis, and adds a few variations. some are less popular variations, some are less popular chassis. but you got some choices. unfortunately all of them robots.
i doubt they dare however, its about avoiding player QQ. instead of rebalance they patchwork. cant blame em. i saw robocraft going through its 4th system rewrite, so its not impossible, if you are ready to take the storm after such a deal.
On 8/15/2018 at 5:07 PM, Koromac said:
I want to feel each ship as it is, for what it truly is.
…or, more likely, you would use the highest available rank you have.
29 minutes ago, xKostyan said:
Imho ship ranks 1-8 should play in own sandbox, rank 9-17 with some module shuffling and rank bonuses are perfectly fine with each other
this.
introductionary phase could be added as a very low tier, simply by amount of games played.
–
anyway. i did not play much for a few months, so only a few games every now and then in different time zones, but i did not notice the scary amount of low rank ships farming. in fact, i noticed a lot of high rank ships, r15-r17, and sometimes some r9 and r11, r12 inbetween, and it did not look any different today.
that’s why i voted the less popular vote for rating players, not ranks of ships.
not saying, it should not be some combination, ranking should take all ships in the lineup into consideration.
–
also, it should throw all people who only take a lrf into a special queue.
I cant remember the last time i saw 50+ votes on a poll, awesum.
6 minutes ago, ORCA1911 said:
I cant remember the last time i saw 50+ votes on a poll, awesum.
I don’t remember when we ever had 50+ votes on anything, on English forum that is
Yeah, the russian forum has 4 times as many comments, puts into perspective how small the EN community and (maybe) insignificant is compared with the russian one.
Again and again, I see the same few players playing same old broken record.
I don’t understand what is here to debate at all?
This poll was about multiple tiers or just one tier.
The answer is clear what almost 80% of the community would like to have.
I’m pointing to [@xKostyan](< base_url >/index.php?/profile/236074-xkostyan/) + some of his followers and on his comments, you are blindly defending your way, even if no one else would like to have it except few of your followers.
I can point on those few too if you wish.
Now as I said it is time to start new polls one of them should for sure be if players like that low-rank ships have all those bonuses.
Let’s see what majority of players would say on that.
I bet you will be on your 20% with your buffs for low rank and nerfs for high-rank ships.
Stop dispatching any more crap, you and your eager followers will kill the player numbers in game even more.
I used to spend a lot of time flying in Open Space. Every year everything has been the same there.
So, after some time I lost interest in this game and stopped playing.
I started missing the game, but nobody is updating Open Space.
OK, they lost many hours with me.
I think the players leave not becuase of MM. They need NEW things. RADICALLY new things. What the devs are doing now is cosmetic changes, but it is also good (though they are paying with people).
7 hours ago, GatoGrande said:
Again and again, I see the same few players playing same old broken record.
I don’t understand what is here to debate at all?
This poll was about multiple tiers or just one tier.
The answer is clear what almost 80% of the community would like to have.
I’m pointing to [@xKostyan](< base_url >/index.php?/profile/236074-xkostyan/) + some of his followers and on his comments, you are blindly defending your way, even if no one else would like to have it except few of your followers.
I can point on those few too if you wish.
Now as I said it is time to start new polls one of them should for sure be if players like that low-rank ships have all those bonuses.
Let’s see what majority of players would say on that.
I bet you will be on your 20% with your buffs for low rank and nerfs for high-rank ships.
Stop dispatching any more crap, you and your eager followers will kill the player numbers in game even more.
1
Bring back realistic battle where one ship is one life. Make a separate queue if you have to. Making the game’s pvp ‘custom room’ based is preferable. Be rid of this current madness that has constantly been getting worse. I’d rather long queues and quality games than these quick and without fun games. Survival was the worst mode, keep the name and take out the damage buffs, as well as make it so one ship is one life, or make it so everyone only selects one of their ships at the start and has only one life. That would be the best game mode ever. Capture the beacons with limited lives had the right idea and was the best mode. Combat recon aka captain mode was right behind it. Both had the realistic element that made the game so fun. As for the rank buffs, the way they should be implemented is within separate tiers and only for ships at your max rank within a single ship-line within a faction or until that ship is fully synergized so that the buff itself may not be farmed by high ranking players and should only be active if there are higher ranking enemy ships. 3 tiers is fine, they should be ranks 1-5, 6-11, and 12-17 with zero mixing of those tiers. NO restrictions on squads. We must return to the days when people are encouraged to play together. 4 man squads must get games. Introduce 8 man or even 12 man wings to pvp.
2 hours ago, xKostyan said:
Or be The Special one like you;
and get rid of 80% of average players and play alone?
You and your suggestions are doing ……