Just now, UnBRoken said:
I don’t think it needs to be nerfed but I do think it needs to damage friendlies as well as enemies but I feel the same about all AOE weapons.
Torps. . . would be so fun if they damaged friendlies. . . You could make your own team lose because you felt like it. Frig balls would never be the same.
Or we can remove it? this module is realy annoying for slow ships…*cough*tyrant*cough* and in pve it’s the worst thing to use cause it will most of the time cause the death of one of your team mate, but we can’t remove it by our self and dev’s won’t remove it anyway so maybe it’s time to stop raging about it and go with it or do like me and don’t use it that it.
18 hours ago, Mecronmancer said:
Here’s something constructive, and this is the last time I will attempt to enlighten all of you
The term is “constructive criticism”, not “constructive patronizing” or “constructive smartpanting”. I have yet to read “criticism” from any of you guys.
Except Kosty, who does mention the denial as a problem.
To be honest, a module that can only be countered by one module on a specific role, to be bareable should be considered “problematic”. The Blackhole thingie is “problematic” since the start, and we all just have to adapt to this fact, and accept it, as well.
Accepting truth we do not agree to - goes both ways.
The evidence is, that frustration comes up with that module, even with people who can handle it, and it has a historic connotation, the module was discussed in the past as well.
Expressing this frustration here is completely legitimate - and even if I only find the “beacon denial” crap (to the point where I would see the need for change of some sort, not just because of that module, but for the sake of all “slow damage modules”, which I like, but they kinda interfere with the mechanic of beacon capture - but I like them to be part of this game, because we had other weapons and modules in the past which were removed out of similar problems).
So I claim, I do get both sides of this discussion, and I personally find, everybody should try to keep their minds a bit more open - since if you can’t understand your counterpart, you are probably not qualified to answer either.
And no, you do not just nerf things which are OP, in fact, constant adjustment to any kind of gameplay element is what makes a game “maintained”, and you try to change mechanics to achieve certain aesthetics - the major concern of any game design is offering fun and fairness - but can’t always predict, how something is going to be used.
To make my agendas clear, I want to tell it with an analogy: In StarCraft2 Arcade there is the genius map “Star Battle”, which has a Vortex spell aswell - very similar to our thing here - as one of the Ultis. Black hole, swallowing units - not killing them however. And there is Star Armada, made by a player, who wasn’t so good in StarBattle, and game design, and all he did was a more chaotic, more shiny version of the game, where the Vortex basicly can kill an entire fleet, huge, damages to death, and has no counters. His game is more about looks, than fairness, and it’s okay, he even admits it. I want this game here to orient itself more on the genius competitive originality, than the shiny “wannabe design” however. So if I write something in the forum, I write it for the game to get better, not to tell everybody how awesomely good looking I am, besides being the hero of the day.
Not that I do not agree to the basic “adapt or die” philosophy.
It’s just, I would see you as the dying one, not the adapting one, if there wouldn’t be the glorious ECM which flies itself and gives its user the sense of skill.
Seriously, slowly I feel like ECM is the correct sunday-school answer to anything in Star Conflict. I refuse such a saviour.
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@Threadbashing
Everytime, I read someone complaining about a thread, I just think to myself: this is the point, where he just admitted, he isn’t fit to discuss his standpoint.
What I really hate is people complaining about complainers, because they do absolutely nothing, except “feeling superior”, which isn’t a very healthy activity, and indirectly, they are complaining about themselves. Which makes me complaining about complaining about complaining, even the biggest idiot of all, right.
But I find, without a discussion, where people come and bring their concerns and ideas, you cannot achieve anything.
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Anyway, all that is annoying to me atm. is, to repeat it, the bacon denial, and I refuse ECM-Hack as the only answer to this. I see the clear need in Star Conflict overall, to talk more about spawn mechanics and game objective mechanics, because they need to be revisited, and have not changed with the rest of the game.
I don’t see black hole as an issue really. like already stated there are many ways to deny beacon cap even Halo or photon (photon being my personal fave), pulsar or cloaked lrf torping and em’ing you to death. Ecm is everywhere and I even use it in beacon matches. I never use slow ships in beacon cap tho so I cant relate to this being an issue. 
There are a mess of things that are annoying lrf being near the top of the list but BH would be at the bottom if even on the list. I had to learn to adapt and have the classes slotted for anything that may come. If you don’t have it chances are someone else on the team will. Use chat and make your team aware or ping, stay together. These are all tactics that should have been adapted by the time you reach T5.
And AdamWest you I know are one of the best players in the game so be gentle when you tear this post up lol 
Can we all just agree that the damage needs to go, and that some specific people need to git gud? It’s not that big of an issue.
What can be more unrealistic than generating a Kugelblitz every 64 seconds(or so) than making one that is pretty much harmless,yeah sure,that’ll do.
1 hour ago, g4borg said:
The term is “constructive criticism”, not “constructive patronizing” or “constructive smartpanting”. I have yet to read “criticism” from any of you guys.
Term it any way you want, but I have stated the counterarguments to millan’s points. That in itself is enough of criticism. I will not argue any more semantics with you on this matter.
1 hour ago, g4borg said:
To be honest, a module that can only be countered by one module on a specific role, to be bareable should be considered “problematic”.
So by your logic, the only counter to stuns in Dota for almost all characters is a BKB (and not even all stuns are negated by the BKB effect), and so therefore those stuns are problematic. Yet those stuns are the reason why the game is balanced.
1 hour ago, g4borg said:
So I claim, I do get both sides of this discussion, and I personally find, everybody should try to keep their minds a bit more open - since if you can’t understand your counterpart, you are probably not qualified to answer either.
Sounds like you’re taking the cop-out approach to this matter. I expected as such. I understand the QQ behind the black hole, but I find the QQ based on inane claims. So therefore I will use your general approach and claim that I am indeed qualified to answer.
1 hour ago, g4borg said:
Seriously, slowly I feel like ECM is the correct sunday-school answer to anything in Star Conflict. I refuse such a saviour.
It is not. You should obviously know by now that ECMs are terrible for pve, open space, damage dealing, and get shxt on by tacklers and gunships.
Mecron-reply
1 hour ago, Mecronmancer said:
So by your logic, the only counter to stuns in Dota for almost all characters is a BKB (and not even all stuns are negated by the BKB effect), and so therefore those stuns are problematic. Yet those stuns are the reason why the game is balanced.
I do not play dota much to understand this completely. Anyway, that is a crap comparison anyway, as I remember many characters being able to stun in dota, and specificly, you can counter build while the game is in progress - which is a part of the moba game design. It’s not the same thing in SC. Also, the ECM stuns, and it’s not about ECM stuns, and many would argue that without the ECM, also SC would not be balanced. So it’s not even about the necessity of a counter, but you presented it as “justifying solution”.
Newer mobas like Paragon offer stuns and evasions with almost every hero class, especially offense. Most mobas simply are more about ability timing now, and it evolved by being “played”, not by being conceptionally designed to be perfectly balanced. Most of the balance came with the underlying strategy game they were scripted in, anyway.
1 hour ago, Mecronmancer said:
Sounds like you’re taking the cop-out approach to this matter. I expected as such.
I don’t cop out at all, I have noted expressively, what I find to be true, and what not. I don’t have to deal in generalisations however. I read the expecting part with a smile. Of course you did.
1 hour ago, Mecronmancer said:
So therefore I will use your general approach and claim that I am indeed qualified to answer.
I do not think that is my approach, as I usually tend to point out what I think is positive and negative, without trying to simply disqualify every point. In fact, answering to many quotes, like this, I usually don’t like, as it tends to make you try to deny everything. I didn’t want to argue with you, but I noted my view on the matter, accept it. If you think, you are qualified, be my guest. I just said, I think I am, coz I can support both sides to more than 50%, which just shows me, something is right about the whole process of discussing the matter anyway. I did not try to point out, that I am more right, but why I feel the matter needs open mindedness, and has some merit.
I don’t fear discussions.
1 hour ago, Mecronmancer said:
I understand the QQ behind the black hole, but I find the QQ based on inane claims.
That is nice, but even if you personally think it is like that, why enforce it, and why not let people express their frustration without overall polarisation?
Can you not accept, that some things, the QQ is about, might be right? That your point of view by far can’t be that perfect?
Why not read through, try to find the correct points of critique, and post some solutions and ideas of your own?
Not even saying you dont do that, it was just coincidence I quoted you, the – usually denotes I switch subject. You did after all open with “ecm can take it over” ”)
Coz that’s my approach, at least I try to.
Usually, if I see something as not a problem, I say it and go away. If I stand around and fight, it seems I am only there for fighting. I see it as a hint I need to reflect, and hey, it is tempting to just judge over it as whining and be done with it.
Anyway, I still think, there is little difference between QQ and QQ about QQ. Git gud is just adolescent talk for “look at my testvehicles”.
I only got angry, coz I don’t think, the beacon denial is okay at all with a hint on ECM. I think all other aspects are totally okay, so we are even on the same page there. I would not change the module, I would rather change the mechanics the module disturbs far too effectively, to allow also other modules to work similarly, without QQ about it. I think the QQ would end, if the beacon denial is solved.
Might be wrong about this, but I think the solution is in that direction. For a solution, I have to accept, there might be a problem, however.
Also, it reminds me of the Destructor Beam discussion, where we had similar QQ, until it was nerfed into an energy zap gun. But that only put the problem on hold, that weapons with small fast incoming area damage disturb a basic game mechanic and causes imbalance on a so called “meta” layer of the game (objective play). And even if there are situations where this is tactically cool, it is way too easy to spam it for an effect.
Similarly the QQ about cooldown has to be seen relative to the beacon capture times - similarly to the nuke - not in contrast to really fast cooldowns, like flares have. The QQ doesnt touch that, but if you observe closely, you can identify a connection to why “it feels too fast” for people - even if the cooldown is technically quite okay. Which again points to beacon denial.
If you play RU/EU primetime a lot, you will get offered this a lot. It’s not persistent, nor a daily thing. Thankfully, being a night-owl, I know it gets different based on population. I don’t blame the individual to not specificly exactly pinpoint their feelings correctly, but I accept if they complain about “something”, nevertheless.
And to revisit dota and similar games, there is a fact behind microbalancing what ability can be channeled, and where interrupts happen, what the difference between dot damage and debuff damage and spell damage is, etc. so looking at them, again I ask myself, why not solve beacon denial with similar logic and argue about that.