Mismatched matchmaking

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61

Oucs, I must say. Maybe they were a group or corp or such? In my experience the MM does it’s best to even the odds. Not that I doubt that such matches happen.

 

M8, I like that you seem more sensible than most here. I have to say though that the MM does indeed try to even the playing field, but in a way that you lose as much as you win. This means that a very good tier 2 player gets pushed with tier 3 and tier 4’s while a bad tier 2 player might get placed in a group of tier 1. While this on paper sounds like a good idea. It really isnt, because what happends is that the player feels like he/she is being punished for being a good player. Having a good win ratio and ship rating I honestly get grouped with tier3’s and tier 4’s period. While my own team has a lot more tier 2’s.

Also, the point of a competitive game like this should be to become more skiled then the other players. If this is compensated by tougher enemies with better equipment that is not much fun at all. I dont want the game to level the playing field by making it uneven with gear. I want to suck at tier 3 and learn to become the best. Same with tier 4.

I remember playing tier2 for the first time and i got hammered. But I stayed with it and now I was doing really good.

Currently I am grinding to get to tier 3 with some decent gear, but suddently this patch, and what happend? All the skill I got was thrown out of the mix because I just get in games with t4 and tier3’s, making me hate my skill and win ratio… How is this fun? It isnt for me…

And if they want me to move on to tier 3 (I can just buy rank 7 ships) then they should make it more attractive in rewards, but right now they make it so that because I have one faction a higher rank I get no reputation for flying rank 2. That is not a incentive, it feels like being shoved out of tier 2. It should be my own decision if I want to grind all faction gear tier 3 before I start playing it. Now, that really is not an option anymore.

I agree that the new matchmaking could work (check my big thread about it) but I really dont agree with you that MM should purely even the odds with regard to player skill. It should even the odds based on which rank ship is used (OF THE SAME TIER) and which equipement is used. For example I use all faction. I think it might be a bit unfair if I get grouped with a tier2 with all mk1, but then again, that is a small advantage of having played more.

Again, like I said in my big thread about it, I do believe mixed MM can work, but not without some modification, check my thread for it. Biggest issue would be implants though and the number of higher tier ships that could potentially be in a game.

 

62

I agree Aircraftman, and have honestly found your posts to be very sensible and balanced (more so than mine). I just can’t stand the idea of pay to win, it pisses me off to be forced into an environment where merit is not rewarded and money can buy privilege - I get enough of that in real life, games are supposed to be an escape from that into a virtual world where they playing field is even - just like sports. If this is not the case, why bother getting frustrated for no reason? 

63

M8, I like that you seem more sensible than most here.

 

The feeling is mutual.

 

 

the MM does indeed try to even the playing field, but in a way that you lose as much as you win. This means that a very good tier 2 player gets pushed with tier 3 and tier 4’s while a bad tier 2 player might get placed in a group of tier 1. While this on paper sounds like a good idea. It really isnt, because what happends is that the player feels like he/she is being punished for being a good player.

That’s pretty subjective. I -for one- like to compete with the higher tier guys. Though if MM works the way you described, I feel sorry for the lower ranked T3 guys who has a harder time improving for always fighting T2 people. Anyhow, your concern is valid. I’m in the same situation with T3 as you - instead of getting the first T3 ship, I just started to level another faction. But I don’t see why do you mind the implants. I though before the patch it was the benefit of higher ranked players still playing in lower tiers.

 

And it’s refreshing to read about what can be the problem of the system rather than ‘argh revert revert or no more moniez and players!!1!’

64

@alizan and evan

 

I too can see a benefit of a mixed tier, but this benefit goes straight out the window for me if i cannot even take one point of shield away from someone i am facing because the game considers i should face t4, rank 12, machines because i am doing good in my chosen tier. And if i fly my t3 machines, it gets even worse as i am constantly facing enemys with epic t4 gear. while the best i can do is a mk3 plasma, that doesnt even tickle their shields.

 

I dont mind a even playing field THROUGH SKILL but i spite having to face enemys that obviously cant fly proper but get a serious advantage by gear.

65

Signed!

One of the games best qualities was the ability to play with a low tier against other low tiers, just for fun or love of an older ship. Or just to keep variety in the game and keep boredom at bay.

Now its impossible to play with the good old ships anymore. Cause I´ll meet opponents of my actual rank. This is bad as hell! There is absolutely NO FUN fighting w. T1 or T2 against T3 ships - even if they´re piloted by chimps with poor combat-stats!

Why should I pay ingame money for better equipment and progress in different “spezies”??? No its nonsense, because my ship is always low in comparison to higher tiers.

I loved!!! the game before patch and hoped, there will be another discount @steem. Now I won´t pay a buck, cause the fun factor diminishes from about 90% to 60%. Matchmaking annoys me (REALLY!)! And I don´t want to be annoyed in my leisure time!

 

Fix it quick, please!
Gonzo

66

 she was a 17 year old girl that weighed 62 kilos and I was, at the time, a 25 year old weighing 85 kilos, her skill could hardly help her in a match against me. That’s why girls don’t fight boys in competitions and juniors don’t fight seniors. That’s why there are weight classes. Simple enough analogy?

All you had to do is to sit on her to win :smiley: , which is pretty much what T3 can do to T1.

67

I though before the patch it was the benefit of higher ranked players still playing in lower tiers.

 

You are misinformed on this, the implants work based on what SHIP RANK you are flying at that specific time, so for example if you fly a TIER 2, RANK 5 ship you would only get implant bonuses of 1-5. This is why you should always want to fly a RANK 6 ship in tier 2. Or a Rank 9 in tier3 And this is why it is so nasty to fight people from different tiers, the implants give you a huge leap in many areas. So instead of just having to fight a better ship, you are also fighting someone with many bonuses that you dont have. To be honest it is a source of many problems, because this makes it so that I dont fly a tier 3 rank 7 ship… Because I do have the implants, but not the right rank ship for it… so I have to grind at tier2… if I want to have any real fair play against other tier 3 players that have a rank 9 ship.

 

Also, true it is subjective, if you like to be made to lose artificially, but I think personally that is a bad thing, If im really good I should be able to win like 90% of the time.

Its like for example you win a lot in… lets say starcraft. You trained a long time and managed to get to the top. Then because you win so much the developers make it so you dont get to fight better players (because there arent any, your the best) , you get to fight players with +4 weapon and armour upgrades… (which is impossible for you) Oh and in addition their units move faster… its not rly fun is it? Youll lose yeah, but is it more fair? not really. They just made it so that good players lose just as much as bad ones… Its generally a bad idea.

Mixed Matchmkaing can work, but only if you take some other things into mind and change that (check my thread about why I think the matchmaking could work). For example remove the implant bonus, and only have 1 or 2 of a higher tier per match.

 

Another thing to consider is this: (and Lady Alekto pointed this out)

*If I get to fight tier 2 pilots that are really good at flying, and I lose, it sucks but it is still fun, and a nice fight. If I win, it is also really fun, because I managed to beat a tough oponent with good skill.

*If I get to fly a tier 3/4 pilots that really arent that good and they win, it isnt fun… it sucks. And you know what? If I win from them, it still sucks! Because I can tell that they are bad/avarage pilots, but it was a challenge purely based on their equipment/implants. So I didnt get to win because I was better, I knew I was better, but had to fight through their advantage… not fun

 

These last points are really important because the main thing for a game is that it should be fun :wink:

68

Oh Jesus my eyes.

69

No, there is no sexism in video games. This thing with comparing good things to sexy half naked girls is actually an expression of art.

Also, tub girl is so 2001. Get with the times.

70

YOU CHAUVINIST PIG!

tropes-vs-women-editorial-header-graphic

71

Tub girl is what I use whenever a game turns to xxxx like this and the devs know its a pile of xxxx.  I am the reason tubgirl is a banned word on the league of legends forums.

72

Nothing someone should be proud of…

73

Nothing someone should be proud of…

Neither should making a kick xxxx game, waiting for folks to spend money on it then totally ruining what was a fair and balanced matchmaking process to only benefit the rich.  xxxx these developers, they made WoT into a terrible terrible game and it seems they are about to do it to this one too.

74

just to add some info into the whole p2win scheme that everyone just seem to make a plain statement with no detail

 

for now , to level your odds against higher tier , given you are level 6 (highest of t2) , you can purchase gold level 9 ship (highest of t3)

inferor modules ? no worries , gold mods are not loyalty related

the only thing that u must play to get is implants

 

and , on top of that , for some reason the gold ships seem to take less % damage per death leading to a much much lower repair cost

the difference is , a level 6 ship , each death requires roughly 10k to repair , a level 6 gold ship requires 3k

 

i know the above as a fact because i have been using a neuron , a deimos 2 and a alligator-M for weeks

75

My last game yesterday I bought the highest tier of tier 2 frigates, until then I had only owned a Deimos and an Alligator-C (i think that’s the classification) both of which are the entry level tier 2 ship for their respective class and faction.  I was fighting t3s most of the day, had several games against t4s and only 2 involving t1s and in that t1 game I had picked the hand with the most t1s.

 

I dont understand why in an entry level t2 ship I was being forced to fight anyone over my tier or below it.  Fighting the guys below me was boring and easy even with the tier 1 guys who are new and dont understand the mechanics.  Against the t3s I seem to have kept my win ratio but my addition to a fight feels negligible when my point blank high dps guns dont even put a dent in a t3 ships shields.  Im slower than their frigates and -30% hp roughly and lower resists with lower dps guns.  I get the drop on an enemy and it still results in a 1v1 situation, them winning.  Its total bullshit and unless you fix this soon you can xxxx yourselves backwards before I pay any real money into it.  Your decision, you want a real amount of players with an expansive growth or you want a few customers who will pay ridiculous amounts of money.  More customers paying less or less customers paying more, your choice, I think its an obvious one, especially with the sort of high concept you are trying to sell but hey, try to make it elite if you want, it will just become a joke like World of Tanks.

76

Here’s another opinion from another player paying real money to play the game. The new matchmaking mechanism is awful.

 

Look, it’s irritating enough when you get sniped by some moron 15k away sitting in a frigate. But when you get blown up in a T1  interceptor and that same sniping moron is in a T3 frigate, you start thinking about playing another game.

 

If you’re going to ask for input from your community then don’t do the opposite of what the majority suggest.

77

The way they are going isn’t really pay to win… it’s just revolting to people who payed:

I bought the most expensive steam pack prior to this last patch (and was seeing myself getting the other 2 fairly soon!!!)  But…  Now i’m Rank 6 Jerico.  Last patch, my exp income was significantly higher, and I was able to do more on the battlefield.  Now my T2 ships are going up against T3s and T4s as I work my way through T2 and T3 (ranks in Jerico).  Now i’m getting pounded and can rarely do good in a game since i’m with T3 and/or T4s.

 

Right now I see no point in playing the game without being the Top tier in a match.  Exp flow is significantly reduced this patch… cash flow also (but that was a hard nerf unlike EXP which isn’t flowing as much to T1 and T2 and maybe T3 players who have to go up against T4s\higher tiers).  

 

Think of it this way: You could buy out and equip a T4 ship with real money.  But first you have to get butchered in T1, T2 and T3 until high enough rank to own a T4.  That is a lot of not fun to play games.

 

Last patch was perfect to the new player, and was fair to the paying customer.  This patch just screwed up matchmaking completely to the point where I have to wait until they revert back to how it was before I play OR pay again.

 

PS. I got 2 friends to try the game after this horrible patch.  They played a few hours with me in T1… thanks for ruining the game for them and I.  We definitely won’t be returning until this is fixed.

78

While there is very real validity to the complaints, there is one thing that is better.  Yes, there actually is a thing. 

 

Before, you could never really actually USE a T4 ship in PvP, simply since not enough people had them to actually fill up a single mission with.  Queue with one and you would basically just get stuck.  Thats the one good thing:  You can now actually use your hard-earned T4 ships them in PvP matches.

 

So what is needed may not be a TOTAL rollback, but a change in the seperation system for matchmaking.  If you have only T1-2 ships in the lineup, you get put with T1-2 ships.  If you put a T3 or 4 ship in your lineup, you get put with other people who have one or more T3-4 ships in their lineup.  Simple.  Lets people use T4 ships, and lets people with T1-2 ships not feel inadequate because of them.   Any division more then these two “tiers” of matchmaking will make it hard at best to actually get into missions unless we get a bigger player base. 

79

Like 99% have said. The match making sucks and I really liked playing this game. Well time to find a new game to play. and I was gonna spend more money to renew my premium nto gonna do that until they fix the MM.

80

Well.

This is gamebreaking bad.

Tried to play few matches, with two t1 ships and unupgraded t2 one. Every time 80% of ships are t3 max syngergy with flat twice stats and better modules. And I think some of the player have even worse time. On my team there was once a t1 fighter / interceptor player.

 

This so not enjoyable that I’m done with the game. At least for as long as this matchmaking is in place.

 

And on top of that you are likely to lose a lot of new players who by the word of mouth heard about great game and are going to face this.