Neocodex, I understand both sides of the story, and both sides got valid points.
For some it would be good, for others worse.
The main problem I see, is the fact that if a T4 player would go down to T1 to play with a friend, 2 things happen:
The T4 player(In T1 ships) probaly griefs the xxxx out of T1.
The T4 player(In T1 ships) stops progressing.
While if the T1 goes into T4, the T1 griefs his own team, But both him and his friend progresses.
Wait, so now we are not allowed to play T1? And T2? Maybe not allowed to even play T3 because our ships and skills are too good? When did these rules start to apply?
But it is ok if I (hypothetically) pick a R12 ship, a T1 friend, and grief our team against T5 ships? Oh, that seems to be perfectly fine.
Antibus argument makes no sense.
Why would you expect to progress if you go play T2 with a friend? Maybe I want to have fun in T2 with him. My progression is maxed. Not that I would go play T2, for that sake. Who cares about progression of a T5 player in T2, he is already griefing his (possible, let’s say he hasn’t reached T5 yet) progression by being “OP” in T2, so there is nothing wrong with that.
I would never drag anyone not capable of flying in T4/T5, even T3, if he doesn’t have the ships. Why would someone do that? And why is playing T2 worse than dragging T2 people into T5?
I think you misunderstood.
I am not against T5 players going to T1 to help a friend, but a reason not to do it for him is progression. Since he completely destroys his chance of progression when going down. While if the friend comes up to his tier, they both progress without a problem.
I am not saying I like T1 people in my T3 matches, But I can’t say no just because I don’t like it. It was their choice, if they don’t like losing match after match he can go down to T1 again.
And a single person rarely makes a difference in a 12 v 12, if the rest of your team is good, you will win nonetheless, if they aren’t you probaly would lose anyway. In smaller matches they make a huge difference, but in 12 v 12 having one on your team is not too big a deal.
But then we come back to not enough players in this game’s high tiers.
BoS, please explain your post is very useless >.>
The current LRF is suited for the player to camp at spawn the whole game. When it actually should be filling the role of anti frigate and destroying frig balls.
Proposed changes:
Increase speed 20%
Change disintergrator and guided torpedo range to 8000m
Disintergrator dmg increase by 25%
Disintergrator projectile speed decrease by 50%
Disintergrator can destroy mobile barrier in 1 hit
Guided Torpedo dmg increase by 10%
Guided Torpedo deals 75% to fighters and 50% dmg to interceptors
Guided Torpedo increase cooldown by 9 seconds
Guided Torpedo speed increase by 20%
Weapon overcharge no longer affect LRF f ability
Weapon overcharge not affect primary weapon
Weapon overcharge dmg increase effect increased tp 50% extra dmg
When weapon overcharge effect wears off, primary weapon automatically goes into a 10sec cooldown
EM Scattering Field allows all friendly ship within 600m of user to be invisibile to radar and locking for 15secs
Moving does not disrupte EM scattering field effect
Tachyon Charge current effect removed
Tachyon Charge increase afterburner speed by 30% and acceleration by 500%
While under Tachyon Charge, user gains an invincible forward facing shield that moves with the front of the LRF
Tachyon Charge lasts 5 secs
While Tachyon Charging, LRF gains nyan cat trail and user instantly gets connected to US server
I think you misunderstood.
I am not against T5 players going to T1 to help a friend, but a reason not to do it for him is progression. Since he completely destroys his chance of progression when going down. While if the friend comes up to his tier, they both progress without a problem.
I am not saying I like T1 people in my T3 matches, But I can’t say no just because I don’t like it. It was their choice, if they don’t like losing match after match he can go down to T1 again.
And a single person rarely makes a difference in a 12 v 12, if the rest of your team is good, you will win nonetheless, if they aren’t you probaly would lose anyway. In smaller matches they make a huge difference, but in 12 v 12 having one on your team is not too big a deal.
But then we come back to not enough players in this game’s high tiers.
Problem is, if you’ve been reading my complaints in the patch discussion, there are no 12v12 games in T5, and rarely in T4.
Most T5 games are from 3v3 to 6v6.
Most T4 games are about 8v8, 3v3 and 4v4 are common too.
This is why low player ships are problem in higher tiers. You cannot know if you don’t play that daily. And it is happening every day. I doubt Antibus knows. As soon as you have 2 scrubs on your team against 8 decent T4 players, you hardly stand a chance, because it’s 6v8, and it is very common that they by some chance have T1-T3 ships, doing nothing.
One more thing: skill discrepancy is much wider in T4 and T5 compared to T3. If you get a complete scrub in 12v12 T3 is not nearly the same as in T4 8v8, because you are facing tougher oponents both in ships and skill. Enemy has better ships and better players against even weaker ships and weaker players (T2 vs T3 is not the same as T2 vs T4, with likelihood of facing T5, the gap grows exponentially). So here’s a real example you see every day:
Carrying 9v12 against average players (you carry 20% of the team x1.0 difficulty = 20-25% tougher
Carrying 6v8 against tough players(you carry 25% of the team x1.5 difficulty = 50% tougher
Do you see where I am getting at?
You hardly feel it in T3, but you do when you go higher. And it is completely ridiculous that this can even happen and it should be removed from the game. Such things should not be happening, ever.
So it is like I said then? The population lack is causing a problem in the T4/T5 when low level players join since there are not enough teammates to compensate?
A block in T4/T5 so that players below T3 are not able to join would work since they are the “farming/end game” tiers, but T3 should stay free since it is still a sort-of training tier.
While Tachyon Charging, LRF gains nyan cat trail and user instantly gets connected to US server
At this point I was certain you were trolling…
Right now the LRF are in a quit good position IMO, it needs tweaks to damage done per class(60% inty, 80% fighter, 100% frigate) and then it would be fine I think?
At this point I was certain you were trolling…
Right now the LRF are in a quit good position IMO, it needs tweaks to damage done per class(60% inty, 80% fighter, 100% frigate) and then it would be fine I think?
the point is, LRF need to be pushed to the center of the map and that calls for decrease in range of disintergrator/guided torp and increase in speed
currently, jericho LR is useful in a few gamemodes while empire LR is just a plain waste of a player in the team
Yeah, something drastic needs to be done to the Long Range Frigate. Removing the Long Range part ideally. They are the single most hated class in the entire game, even above ECM. The ECM may be broken, but that means it is useful to have on your side. 90% of Long Range pilots are a waste of space and should be banned for afking.
By contrast, I actually fly aggressively in my LR (oddly, I’m most aggressive in my Empire LR…). I even capture beacons in it! In Capture the Beacons no less!
How is a LRF a waste? They are very useful in a lot of cases if they don’t exceed a certain number on your team. And it all depends on the pilots as well.
I really don’t understand the hate against them :dntknw:
They don’t got the tank to be in the middle of the map(Although nowadays…) and not the active modules for it either.
Guided Torpedo dmg increase by 10%
Guided Torpedo deals 75% to fighters and 50% dmg to interceptors
Guided Torpedo increase cooldown by 9 seconds
Guided Torpedo speed increase by 20%
Liked/dislkied the ideas up until here. Yes, why not nerf the Torpedo a little bit more… Just leave out the 2 bottom ones and add “AMS acts as Flares if Guided Torpedo is within range”.
Weapon overcharge no longer affect LRF f ability
Weapon overcharge not affect primary weapon
Weapon overcharge dmg increase effect increased tp 50% extra dmg
When weapon overcharge effect wears off, primary weapon automatically goes into a 10sec cooldown
EM Scattering Field allows all friendly ship within 600m of user to be invisibile to radar and locking for 15secs
Moving does not disrupte EM scattering field effect
Tachyon Charge current effect removed
Tachyon Charge increase afterburner speed by 30% and acceleration by 500%
While under Tachyon Charge, user gains an invincible forward facing shield that moves with the front of the LRF
Tachyon Charge lasts 5 secs
The point of LRFs is to BE Long Ranged. Snipers. They DO have that dual purpose of being gunships due to the 6 turrets and it’s awesome that way. However, none of their modules fits in the gunship role.
Weapon Overcharge:
Works as intended for F-skill (Disintegrator/Guided Torpedo).
Now increases Weapon damage OR RoF by 14-20%(Mk1-Experimental) (Might be overpowered, but it’d work for a gunship-styled play, numbers can be changed).
When effect wears off, both F-skill & weapons go on 10sec cooldown. If F-skill already on cooldown and below 10secs remaining, it’s set at 10secs.
EM Scattering Field
Works as intended, fading you back onto enemy radars if you move.
Provides 10-15sec target block to enemy ships on any friendly ships in a 600m-1km radius around you.
IR Radar (the one that locks out enemy ships targeting you)
Works as intended for locks on you.
Blocks any enemy radars within 500m radius around you for 5secs. Prevents enemy ships from targeting anything in that radius.
Tachyon Charge
Keeps current effects for F-skill AND Weapon Projectile Speed increased by same amount.
Increase afterburner speed by 20-30% and acceleration by 3-400%. (idea is fast placement, not fast movement)
Increase Shield/Armour regen by 4-500% (for Armour regen, it’s set the same as the Shield Regen, then the effect is applied. If you have Regenerative Armour, the shield regen is added on top of that value, then the boost is applied).
Values can be changed at the devs discretion, but it’d add another layer of fun for LRFs, imo.
Empire LRF is not very suitable for close range conflict and being an anti frigate weapon. It’s good for sniping from a distance. It can get close, it’s just not great at it. Jericho LRF is usable like that. In siege matches, Jericho for kills and pushing a line, Empire for holding a line. They’re both so different that they can be harder to compare. Stopping target locks is trivial since I’ve killed LRF’s with main guns while not having a target lock. The class needs better defensive abilities other than minefields. Of the class specific modules, it does not have anything really defensive.
Anyway, back to changes.
Engineer combat drones should be disabled while the engineer is disabled. I’ve been in ECM’s and killed by combat drones after activating MFG.
Beacon drone’s should be easier to kill in interceptors, since interceptors are supposed to be beacon capturers. Only one weapon has decent enough range to keep the player safe. No one really considers the beacon drones good at defending a beacon from fighters or frigates, only interceptors. They’re more of a hint of a beacon’s vulnerability.
I’ll write more when I remember more.
DID ANYONE MENTION PINK SHIPS? YES WE WANT PINK SHIPS.
Beacon drone’s should be easier to kill in interceptors, since interceptors are supposed to be beacon capturers. Only one weapon has decent enough range to keep the player safe. No one really considers the beacon drones good at defending a beacon from fighters or frigates, only interceptors. They’re more of a hint of a beacon’s vulnerability.
The reason beacon drones takes a resonable time to kill in intys is because intys are the fastest ships in the game. With the drones there, the enemy actually have time to move their own ships and defend the beacon.
I only added the LRF function revisions to the list once the issue was explained [note for future listings, don’t say something with absolutely no support]. As far as I can tell, there are two supporters for that one.
My word on it is that it sounds like you want the long range frigates to… not be long range frigates. That’s not ‘fixing’ long range, that’s changing their role entirely. Half the problem you’ve stated is how the PLAYERS most often use them and how the PLAYERS don’t hop into their ships, fly over to the field of blind snipers and kill them all. 10,000 range on a jericho LRF is enough for the ship to have to fly forward and take cover somewhere if they want to assail one beacon. They can try to cover two beacons if they center themselves [with greater risk], and yes, they can also fly in and capture beacons. Probably the main reason why they were given sole possession of the minefield was part to limit the minefield spam, part increasing the possibilities for using LRFs.
It’s on the list as ‘LRF function revisions’ to reflect your want to heavily push the way most players currently pilot them, but I personally think that the problem isn’t with the ships themselves.
The reason beacon drones takes a resonable time to kill in intys is because intys are the fastest ships in the game. With the drones there, the enemy actually have time to move their own ships and defend the beacon.
How long does it take a lone inty to kill four beacon drones, and how much of it’s shields are drained by the time that happens if you don’t use plasma gun? I’ve kept moving while killing them, but you’re still going to take some hits from the 4v1. Considering the time it takes to kill four, the Jericho guards can arrive! Unless it’s beacon hunt, the weapons aren’t effective for the situation. That’s my complaint. Before a nuke could take out all four drones, now they can’t. A lone inty has little chance of of even starting capture right now. A fighter has a better chance. This isn’t even getting into the issue of fed fighter speeds. With an increase of 3v3 matches, it creates a problem for interceptors.
I only added the LRF function revisions to the list once the issue was explained [note for future listings, don’t say something with absolutely no support]. As far as I can tell, there are two supporters for that one.
My word on it is that it sounds like you want the long range frigates to… not be long range frigates. That’s not ‘fixing’ long range, that’s changing their role entirely. Half the problem you’ve stated is how the PLAYERS most often use them and how the PLAYERS don’t hop into their ships, fly over to the field of blind snipers and kill them all. 10,000 range on a jericho LRF is enough for the ship to have to fly forward and take cover somewhere if they want to assail one beacon. They can try to cover two beacons if they center themselves [with greater risk], and yes, they can also fly in and capture beacons. Probably the main reason why they were given sole possession of the minefield was part to limit the minefield spam, part increasing the possibilities for using LRFs.
It’s on the list as ‘LRF function revisions’ to reflect your want to heavily push the way most players currently pilot them, but I personally think that the problem isn’t with the ships themselves.
LRF’s are a long standing issue in the game. It took a while for the missile shield change to allow Jericho LRF’s to be balanced instead of eliminated. Have you see the videos from Kine, Zap, and Drawl? It proved how effective Jericho can be in mid ranges to me. I’m currently trying to gain synergy on the Empire LRF’s to get into the T3+ empire line. On most maps, it’s barely teamwork. I imagine a lot of the people using the Empire LRF are just wanting a Styx. At long ranges, empire has an advantage. At mid ranges, and no range, Jericho has an advantage. Did you consider the fact that I asked for a defensive buf for all LRF’s? Weapon locking and targeting are not a major issue. Empire’s are weak even at mid range, even six turrets isn’t enough since the only weapons that can use six turrets are long range. Once I get a Styx, I’ll probably ditch Empire LRF forever for play style. Yes, Empire can be a killer and survivor on the field, that doesn’t improve on it’s general effectiveness on team play. Jericho can help with that some but the general play style is still a LRF. When I was going for the Sensei title, I used a Jericho LRF and most of my kills were main weapon and not torpedoes. The DPS perhaps balances them out, but I’ll always prefer the Jericho abilities. That being said, they need a good defensive ability other than mines! As for mines, yes, they were limited to LRF for their defensive abilities and their ability to own an open beacon. Minefields needed some kind of change. Mine’s as a defensive measure are still limited to strategy or poor attackers.
One thing to consider, it takes three kills to equal one beacon capture. It’s because the beacon captures win the matches more.
jrisom, I actually missed your post about LRF, my post was in reference to Blades.
Now, I’m not really sure what youare asking to be changed about LRF’s [except defensive issues], buuuut…
“Yes, Empire can be a killer and survivor on the field, that doesn’t improve on it’s general effectiveness on team play. Jericho can help with that some but the general play style is still a LRF.” Just saying that if the general playstyle of an LRF is LRF playstyle, that isn’t so much a problem as it is a success for naming a class what the intention of it is. Jericho does do good midrange, it can even do well up close when piloted correctly, and a correctly outfitted fighter can snipe. LRF’s don’t have many defensive capabilities because they weren’t designed to be in fights. And honestly, if they decide to park themselves right at the spawn, they very much deserve to get killed by a plasma arc. As funkybacon said, they can be very useful for teamplay, outstanding even ~as long as the pilot knows how to use it~.
I don’t really understand the issue apparently, but I’ll log you as seconding the LRF fixing issue.
EDIT: man im tired and grumpy today. my eyes are also skipping choice words 
I don’t know how the Empire’s desintegrator is holding up, but the jerry torpedoes [torpedoes or missiles?] are doing A-OK now that they aren’t constantly auto-shot down. Their AoE is actually a little small for comfort, but it was reduced for a reason. The torpedoes are great for covering fire, because it sends warnings out, and you can typically aim for your ally and hope they get the hint to fly at you and you cover his back. And if you manage to attract too much attention doing that, the guy you just saved covers your back while you do some evasive maneuvers and give him a minefield to fly through. And if the opponent really wants you dead, you die. It seemed even ever since they nerfed the LRF survivability. I would be more concerned about the other frigates.
Empire LRF is not very suitable for close range conflict and being an anti frigate weapon. It’s good for sniping from a distance. It can get close, it’s just not great at it. Jericho LRF is usable like that. In siege matches, Jericho for kills and pushing a line, Empire for holding a line. They’re both so different that they can be harder to compare. Stopping target locks is trivial since I’ve killed LRF’s with main guns while not having a target lock. The class needs better defensive abilities other than minefields. Of the class specific modules, it does not have anything really defensive.
Engineer combat drones should be disabled while the engineer is disabled. I’ve been in ECM’s and killed by combat drones after activating MFG.
Beacon drone’s should be easier to kill in interceptors, since interceptors are supposed to be beacon capturers. Only one weapon has decent enough range to keep the player safe. No one really considers the beacon drones good at defending a beacon from fighters or frigates, only interceptors. They’re more of a hint of a beacon’s vulnerability.
You’d be surprised at the amount of times I’ve seen Imperial LRFs be used as actual Gunships. They now have the hp to survive such things and act as actual Glass Cannons, much like Gunships, they just need the modules to back that up. Considering all their modules serve the purpose of LR, the gunship additions might make them more interesting.
And the Engies appreciate you dying to their Drone clouds. It’s working as intended, so it’ll never get changed.
Beacon Drones have different hp in both Domination/Beacon Hunt and Capture the Beacons. The point of the drones on the first 2 is to warn the team that the Beacon is under attack and requires saving. Losing it is temporary because it can be easily recovered. However, you can’t recover Beacons in CTB, hence why the Drone hp there is much higher. To safeguard the Beacon and allow friendly ships to come to the rescue.
However, no other ship role would have these additions to their modules and that is relatively troublesome for balance…
jrisom, I actually missed your post about LRF, my post was in reference to Blades.
Now, I’m not really sure what youare asking to be changed about LRF’s [except defensive issues], buuuut…
[…]
EDIT: man im tired and grumpy today. my eyes are also skipping choice words
I don’t know how the Empire’s desintegrator is holding up, but the jerry torpedoes [torpedoes or missiles?] are doing A-OK now that they aren’t constantly auto-shot down. Their AoE is actually a little small for comfort, but it was reduced for a reason.
[…]
LRF needs something, I don’t know what, to help it be better in lower ranges, especially Empire. I can’t fly it and feel like a team player, and yesterday I had to wait 14 minutes for T2 PvE where we lost in round 1. Disintegrator’s fine to me, but I have a T2 experimental HB that’s probably messing with my view of that. Yesterday I killed an engineer with it without it being in sensor range, only graphics. Jericho damage could be tweaked, direct hits are really powerful and close shots don’t do enough damage. I haven’t played it in a week or two so maybe some of the targeting changes made a difference.
/topic moved.
I think this is relevant for the game and should not be hidden in the off topic 