LRF rework

Suggestions Balance
#1

Hi !

So, I’m a bit bored about something :

Everybody is complaining about those LRF.

Before, it was “Weh, they’re useless !”. Now it’s “Weh, they are OP and useless !”.

 

It’s my main role (with commands too). I love them. So here’s some small ideas that could improve is a bit.

 

I’ll speak here about a small rework on actives modules. I won’t touch the special, they are perfect.

What’ll do there is adding more mechanics to allow a more complex game-play. And also add higher drawback when needed. It’ll also give a small buff to Jeri’s special.

 

 

So :

Weapon Overcharge : The thing that nobody use except t1. Damage buff is fine, but tachyoon is just much better. Choosing a survival mods is always a better choice when compared to the damage buff.

Here’s my first idea.

    Cool-down : 50 seconds (Don’t decrease with upgrades)

    Applies this buff for 8 seconds :

        * +20% crits with main guns and + 10%damage

        * +20% damage for the next shot with special Shooting with the special stop the buff.

 

    Upon activation, reset special’s cool-down (For empire, if they are on sniping mode, it reload instantly a new shot) and set Tachyoon Overcharge on cool-down for 20 seconds.

    Don’t reset the special’s cool-down if tachyoon is activated.

You CAN and SHOULD shoot fire with main guns with the damage buff and then shot with your special.

It’s not easy at all for empires to snipe after main guns, but Jeri can.

But empire can now do a quick shot or double-shot.

 

 

Tachyoon Overcharge : This one is cool. It is powerful enough to be used. So, I’ll just speak about a small rework, but it’s not really needed.

    Cool-down : 30 secondes (20 when mk4).

    Upon activation, set Weapon Overcharge on 10 seconds cool-down.

    Projectile speed bonus remain the same.

    Duration of the buff reduced to 11.5 seconds.

    First shot with the special remove the buff.

In case you missed it, I’ve just allowed Tachyoon and Weapon Overcharge to work together, but in a small window of 1.5 seconds.

So once each 50 seconds, if you manage to have your special ready, you can have both buff at the same time.

Jeri will have to be careful with their special cool-down (Witch won’t reset when you use both at the same time).

And Empire, well, 1.5 seconds to aim will be hard for them.

Of course you can use main guns while waiting for the small window.

 

 

IR pulsar : Cool too. As tachyoon, don’t needed. But used too much as a defensive tools and not an offensive.

    Effect and duration : stay as it is.

    New mechanic to apply the debuff :

        No more debuff those who have locked on the LRF

        Now debuff every ships at 1000m around the LRF

Saw too many times this module used when I lock an LRF at 5k+ range (Useless, they should have EM for that…).

Plus : Give a good reason to go in.

 

EM scattering field : One thing that almost everybody use. Also something boring that many peoples complains about when used with RT.

    Effect : same.

    Duration :  x 1,5.

    Cool-down : 20 seconds if broke with movements, else 40 seconds (use RT or be found my micro-locator = 40 seconds).

    Cool-down now start only when EM get broke.

No more perma cloak.

 

 

Reverse Thruster : Well, everybody hate it since it came out. RT + EM = invincible

    Effect : same.

    Cool-down : 60 seconds (40 mk4).

    When used under fire (if received damage the last 10 seconds), break EM buff and set it on cool-down.

    When used under fire, also set RT in cool-down for 120 seconds.

    Don’t break EM when used if not under fire.

 

    While the key of the module is pressed, the ship look backward and a small cross show on the HUD where we will land and how far it is.

    While the key is pressed, the ship can still turn with the mouse but with -25% rotation speed.

Happy guys ? Nerf survavibility, buff maniability, and keep the same synergy with EM.

#2

Hi !

So, I’m a bit bored about something :

Everybody is complaining about those LRF.

Before, it was “Weh, they’re useless !”. Now it’s “Weh, they are OP and useless !”.

 

It’s my main role (with commands too). I love them. So here’s some small ideas that could improve is a bit.

 

I’ll speak here about a small rework on actives modules. I won’t touch the special, they are perfect.

What’ll do there is adding more mechanics to allow a more complex game-play. And also add higher drawback when needed. It’ll also give a small buff to Jeri’s special.

 

 

So :

Weapon Overcharge : The thing that nobody use except t1. Damage buff is fine, but tachyoon is just much better. Choosing a survival mods is always a better choice when compared to the damage buff.

Here’s my first idea.

    Cool-down : 50 seconds (Don’t decrease with upgrades)

    Applies this buff for 8 seconds :

        * +20% crits with main guns and + 10%damage

        * +20% damage for the next shot with special Shooting with the special stop the buff.

 

    Upon activation, reset special’s cool-down (For empire, if they are on sniping mode, it reload instantly a new shot) and set Tachyoon Overcharge on cool-down for 20 seconds.

    Don’t reset the special’s cool-down if tachyoon is activated.

You CAN and SHOULD shoot fire with main guns with the damage buff and then shot with your special.

It’s not easy at all for empires to snipe after main guns, but Jeri can.

But empire can now do a quick shot or double-shot.

 

 

Tachyoon Overcharge : This one is cool. It is powerful enough to be used. So, I’ll just speak about a small rework, but it’s not really needed.

    Cool-down : 30 secondes (20 when mk4).

    Upon activation, set Weapon Overcharge on 10 seconds cool-down.

    Projectile speed bonus remain the same.

    Duration of the buff reduced to 11.5 seconds.

    First shot with the special remove the buff.

In case you missed it, I’ve just allowed Tachyoon and Weapon Overcharge to work together, but in a small window of 1.5 seconds.

So once each 50 seconds, if you manage to have your special ready, you can have both buff at the same time.

Jeri will have to be careful with their special cool-down (Witch won’t reset when you use both at the same time).

And Empire, well, 1.5 seconds to aim will be hard for them.

Of course you can use main guns while waiting for the small window.

 

 

IR pulsar : Cool too. As tachyoon, don’t needed. But used too much as a defensive tools and not an offensive.

    Effect and duration : stay as it is.

    New mechanic to apply the debuff :

        No more debuff those who have locked on the LRF

        Now debuff every ships at 1000m around the LRF

Saw too many times this module used when I lock an LRF at 5k+ range (Useless, they should have EM for that…).

Plus : Give a good reason to go in.

 

EM scattering field : One thing that almost everybody use. Also something boring that many peoples complains about when used with RT.

    Effect : same.

    Duration :  x 1,5.

    Cool-down : 20 seconds if broke with movements, else 40 seconds (use RT or be found my micro-locator = 40 seconds).

    Cool-down now start only when EM get broke.

No more perma cloak.

 

 

Reverse Thruster : Well, everybody hate it since it came out. RT + EM = invincible

    Effect : same.

    Cool-down : 60 seconds (40 mk4).

    When used under fire (if received damage the last 10 seconds), break EM buff and set it on cool-down.

    When used under fire, also set RT in cool-down for 120 seconds.

    Don’t break EM when used if not under fire.

 

    While the key of the module is pressed, the ship look backward and a small cross show on the HUD where we will land and how far it is.

    While the key is pressed, the ship can still turn with the mouse but with -25% rotation speed.

Happy guys ? Nerf survavibility, buff maniability, and keep the same synergy with EM.

Just remove RT, the class is OK as it is now, not need for balance.

 

I’m using weapon overcharge in all my Empire LRFs, not in Jerry though…

#3
  1. No need to nerf reverse thruster, it’s the only module why long-ranges became a bit useful again.
  2. Perma cloaked players a bit annoying, but if you have enough experience there’s no problem.
  3. Tachyon and Weapon overcharge is fine.
  4. What is IR Pulsar?

Empire snipers are pretty fine, the big problem is about Jericho LRFs.
They are weak and they have no damage. Completely useless.
I would increase the reloading time of the special module, but give more damage to the torpedoes and remove the nuclear cloud.
 

#4

generally i cannot say if this isn’t a bit complicated overall, but basicly, i find it really nice to read new ideas how to rework the LRF - because imho it really needs some changes, to make them less team-unfriendly.

 

i only want to add this to the LRF/RT discussion: maybe it needs a counter more, than actually fiddling with the numbers.

 

i would love nukes to get a new ability: signature redirection.

Effect: instant movement abilities like the RT (or better said: only the RT atm) get wrong sensor data and are drawn by the nuke.

basicly working like this: the blast radius of the nuke becomes an invisible orb the RT can hit, while it’s ticking, additionally, if the RT hits it, it lands in the vicinity of the nuke.

 

you can still RT as usual, but nukes get invisible asteroids you could hit. placing a nuke behind the sniper up to 5km could therefore be deadly to an easy escape.

 

and finally, the nuke would have some incentive.

 

you could still RT around it, it basicly only makes nukes an invisible asteroid, and only redirects the RT jump once you really hit that obstacle.

 

however it also means, a nuke under your belly is surrounding you, and therefore RT will not really move you away, making the nuke a very good sniper counter.

#5
  1. What is IR Pulsar?

 

 

seriously? IR Pulsar is a white noise for every locked on target, with double the time of the white noise.

 

that actually i find pretty unfair, given that it hits multiple targets; if it should become range based, i still say, it should swap the times with White Noise. coz WN only hits one target, the pulsar hits multiple.

#6

  1. No need to nerf reverse thruster, it’s the only module why long-ranges became a bit useful again.

  2. Perma cloaked players a bit annoying, but if you have enough experience there’s no problem.

  3. Tachyon and Weapon overcharge is fine.

  4. What is IR Pulsar?

Empire snipers are pretty fine, the big problem is about Jericho LRFs.

They are weak and they have no damage. Completely useless.

I would increase the reloading time of the special module, but give more damage to the torpedoes and remove the nuclear cloud.

 

  1. RT, fine ? It’s completly broken…

LRF were fine before. Now they are just impossible to kill. And I know what I say.

 

  1. The problem is cloak + RT. You can flee and be invisible.

 

  1. Tachyoon, yes, I said it. Weapon overcharge, nobody use it.

 

  1. IR pulsar = like White Noise jamer but for everybody who locked on you and with * 2 duration
#7

Just remove RT, the class is OK as it is now, not need for balance.

 

I’m using weapon overcharge in all my Empire LRFs, not in Jerry though…

Well, I think that RT fit perfectly the role of a Sniper and is a great tool to move with EM.

The problem is that they can use it to flee.

 

Weapon Overcharge is good. But Tachyoon allow to hit inties with empire. For damage they already have guns.

I would gladly use it if we had 5 slots.

#8

Nobody use Weapon Overcharge? Damn I’m nobody :008j:

These ideas are bad… you would destroy IR Pulse, Weapon Overcharge and EM field the things that make LRFs playable for most players.

If devs nerf EM field 99% of players will change to IR Pulse and no one wants that.

 

LRFs were always good just needed good positioning. With RT it’s easy to throw them out of position so they are useless for some time.

 

 

I can agree that RT need some reworking(removal would be easier and better) and it’s the only LRF module that needs it…

#9
  1. Ok, relax, got it, but I never used IR pulsar, I’m not a pro sniper.
  2. I never had problems with cloak, only with the Jericho LRFs because there I can’t see the bright red spotlight before shooting.
        But they are just a few shots with an interceptor and they don’t have decent damage so pretty simple to kill them, whether they cloaked or not.
        But if you want to nerf it, I will be just glad, not gonna complain :slight_smile:
  3. I just have Weapon Overcharge on my sniper, I’m not using the Tachyon too much. (But I also not using the special module, just the main weapon with coil mortal :D)
#10

  1. Ok, relax, got it, but I never used IR pulsar, I’m not a pro sniper.

  2. I never had problems with cloak, only with the Jericho LRFs because there I can’t see the bright red spotlight before shooting.

    But they are just a few shots with an interceptor and they don’t have decent damage so pretty simple to kill them, whether they cloaked or not.

    But if you want to nerf it, I will be just glad, not gonna complain :slight_smile:

The main reason they want to nerf it are Maulers in T5 and SecCon.

Lower tier are balanced…

#11

Nobody uses Weapon Overcharge? I’m nobody? I don’t use the Scattering field, nobody see me, nobody attacks me, but i want that they attack me. It makes the gameplay more exciting, i only use the EM field in Open World.

#12

Brace yourself, Weapon Overcharge complains are coming.

#13

I just buffed Weapon overcharge by A LOT and they complain. What the hell ?

I’ve just shortened the duration to 8 seconds (You don’t need 20 seconds because it work with one shot…) to reset special’s cooldown + also buffing main guns.

The only nerf I made is EM cooldown -> 20 seconds each  2 minutes = nothing. Just a drawback for RT who can break it.

 

Nobody uses Weapon Overcharge? I’m nobody? I don’t use the Scattering field, nobody see me, nobody attacks me, but i want that they attack me. It makes the gameplay more exciting, i only use the EM field in Open World.

You don’t count. I hate you, you always kill me. *Snif*

 

Modifications that I did there aren’t for newbies but mechanics for good players to exploit. More fun, what’s the problem ?

#14

 

Lower tier are balanced…

 

i disagree. maybe they are balanced in terms of the ships themselves, but overall the current dynamic in some games is clearly “either you have some good snipers, or just too many snipers”, while first can win you a game in a devastating way, second usually ends in a defeat solely because those players simply add nothing to the game, except luck kills, and no matter how hard you try to win, those couple missing ships just make it impossible.

 

even carrying you across a T3 can be hard work sometimes; not directly because of you, but because of any additional sniper, who does not kill 15 ppl in a match “usually”.

 

at the same time, look at the decks people are using. i cannot say a ship is balanced, if every single player seems to have one sniper equipped. it is clearly an overused role; there are more snipers than engis in each game lately (across the “possible ships”); that is just plainly weird. especially if you get games, where you have not just one, but actually two or more players with a single sniper in their setup, nothing else. This phenomenon clearly came with the RT, but there were too many snipers already before that.

 

So no, LRF is not just a Mauler issue.

#15

i disagree. maybe they are balanced in terms of the ships themselves, but overall the current dynamic in some games is clearly “either you have some good snipers, or just too many snipers”, while first can win you a game in a devastating way, second usually ends in a defeat solely because those players simply add nothing to the game, except luck kills, and no matter how hard you try to win, those couple missing ships just make it impossible.

 

even carrying you across a T3 can be hard work sometimes; not directly because of you, but because of any additional sniper, who does not kill 15 ppl in a match “usually”.

 

at the same time, look at the decks people are using. i cannot say a ship is balanced, if every single player seems to have one sniper equipped. it is clearly an overused role; there are more snipers than engis in each game lately (across the “possible ships”); that is just plainly weird. especially if you get games, where you have not just one, but actually two or more players with a single sniper in their setup, nothing else. This phenomenon clearly came with the RT, but there were too many snipers already before that.

 

So no, LRF is not just a Mauler issue.

 

+1

I have read everywhere everybody complaining about LRF and RT, and now they say that it’s only because Mauler…

 

I don’t really care if some hate my ideas, but I’m listening to them. I know that dev won’t implement it anyway.

Here, is just my point of view. I just love LRF and love having ton’s of different tricks with different difficulty to master a class.

 

Wouldn’t you guys like LRF not beeing just a shot and do nothing else ? I mean, with strategics decisions like I proposed on my post (“Do I double shot with my desintegrator, or wait for a powerful + fast shot ?”, “Do I break my EM and use my RT because I’m attacked but have long cooldown or take risk to gain shorter cooldown ?”, or even “Do I shot now with my special under the damage buff, or try first to land a few shot with guns ?”). 

#16

Put simply, no. I do not want the LRF to have more sniping options. I don’t want it to have ANY sniping options! This game does not benefit in any way from LRF, but it sure as hell suffers because of it!

LRF is the only class that has consistantly been branded a problem. It is the only class where spamming it guarantees your team loses. It is the only class that actively discourages playing to objectives.

That is what has to be fixed, and the only way to do that is to remove the sniping capacity from the ship.

#17

Just got out of a team deathmatch where 5 of our 10 pilots (none were bots) decided to fly LRFs. 3 Torp Frigs and 2 Disintegrators. Take a wild guess who won.

 

This game does not benefit from having a class that is encouraged to sit on the sidelines gambling for that one lucky shot. It doesn’t encourage players to engage in the battle, and it doesn’t encourage them to take objectives. The only way for LRFs to support their team is to kill individual ships causing problems, and they don’t even do that well enough to justify their existence as most shoot rocks far more often than ships.

 

It is a very selfish class in that it encourages the pilot to focus on a high killscore rather than supporting the team.

#18

So you say that 6turrets(best dps in game) encourage pilots to sit in spawn?

Is more of understanding problem than class itself.

#19

So you say that 6turrets(best dps in game) encourage pilots to sit in spawn?

Is more of understanding problem than class itself.

 

They are given a module that allows them to be invisible provided they don’t move. Their primary ability gives them tunnel vision and makes them sitting ducks because they can’t see anyone coming to attack them.

 

The only reason LRFs were allowed to keep their 6 turrets when all other frigates were nerfed to 4 was because they are so fragile and needed to be able to defend themselves when caught alone. That’s also the reason they were the only frigate allowed to keep the minelayer missile. Self-preservation. Unless you think the developers actually believed LRFs would try to mine objectives?

 

Unless a pilot throws every upgrade into beefing up survivability, there is no way an LRF will survive on the frontlines or even the midpoint of a formation, and players know this. So they camp and lose matches. It’s not rocket science. LRF bonuses revolve around camping and that’s what players do with them.

 

It’s a flawed concept that needs to be removed.

#20

but… but LRFs with beams are awesome in 2nd line(even better when it have capt +75% dmg boost)

 

Best ship for 1st/2nd line dmg support:

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