Loyalty

Game Discussion Levelling and Economy
41

OMFG I hate this Update Personally as some one who has invested  200 + dollars into the game because I loved it from the moment I played, I am appalled at this update, for me it just seems it is now nearly pay to win.

 

the gap between the old amount of time it took you to grind for blues and the new time it would take you  is just to Huge… so for me it seems like pay to win… totally depressing me and is making me think about putting in any more money into a game that took a Fail turn. but I wont just troll. I will offer a solution…

 

Following is a brain storm of ideals from the PULSE corp/clan and the above does not reflect the opinions of all in PULSE.

 

We think maybe if you had more type of contract:

Ship specific contracts- like kill Certain number of ships

Clan/Corp Contracts- team oriented contracts that have to be completed in a team.

Squad Contracts - Like between you and your squad do 50,000 points of DMG

Module Specific contracts- like heal 200k Hull or Have a module on for a amount of time.

PvE Contracts - Completing certain tasks in a PvE mission.

 

Would be nice if contracts are expanded  you re-do the interface so that you can filter out contracts with the increased amount so you can filter out contracts by type . like filter out all completed contracts, or filter out all PvE contracts and so on and so forth by category…

 

 Gaining Loyalty Rep by  winning… because I feel like the incentive to win ( before was a 2x gain in loyalty rep from if you lost) is diminished a lot. to fix this I would suggest:

 

Loyalty rep gained for:

Wining a match.

Kills in a match

earning medals

Assists

Beacon capture

 

I think it would be awesome to implement every thing above yeah reduce the loyalty gained but if gained in conjunction you could get a huge amount … oh and you would gain the amount based on your own skill… making the game more competitive and PvP-ish

 

 

this is jjust some of my thoughts and some of those from the Pulse corp. I really hope a Dev reads this

42

I think they did this to us for 2 reasons:

 

  1. Make us more likely to buy premium gear - making them more money

  2. Make people who won’t spend real money play/grind for longer.

 

I haven’t logged in yet, but when I do tonight I’ll see firsthand just how slow it takes to rank up in loyalty.

43

Most people want play to have fun.

 

Contracts used to be nice ‘bonus’

 

But pulling off contract specifically can be a painful chore and is not fun.

 

The fact we can’t pick a faction and earn rep in that faction anymore and we have to rely purely on the contract success is a painfull bad move, some of them have DAYS cooldowns.

 

The only way to really make the contract system work is to put many of the easier contract up with no cooldowns at all, otherwise you prob find people logging in fot just 2-3 battles a day and then not bothering again coz its just not worth them while… or worse quit entirely because its taking far to long to get the unlocks

44

Please use this thread
http://forum.gaijinent.com/index.php?/topic/18517-loyalty/

45

http://forum.gaijinent.com/index.php?/topic/18517-loyalty/

46

I just noticed this is the “offical” post for compliants on since loyalty change, so I’m putting my comment here (from that other thread).

 

***

 

I liked everything in the patch but the loyalty change, and the loyalty change is so bad Its a deal breaker.  The reasons have already been spelled out a hundred times, no need for me to recap.  I’ll say this, I couldnt recommend this game highly enough to my friends until today.  When I talk with’em about it tonight, my new position is that Star Conflict is just another game ruined by decisions by non-gamer suits at the top. 

 

I’m sure they somehow figured slowing progress down 10x would magically increase their profits (since every MMO since Everquest has gotten that stupid idea in their heads, Thanks Brad)… But me, I’m done with life-grinder games.  It will be a shame if Star Conflict stays like it became today, a life-grinder.

47

As a leader of a Major Corporation [ZAG] This update has sapped the fun out of the game. Not getting any reputation gains for doing missions is silly and takes more away from teamwork than it already was. You should get Reputation for winning  and for flying for a faction. I just represented the Armada and Destroyed 10 ships racked up 3040 points and got ZERO reputation, Really !!! If this doesn’t get fixed this will be a game killer for me. I don’t want to hear from the people that say I’m not supporting the game. I bought all 3 DLC to start my Corporation so I have spent 130+ dollars on Star Conflict which in my book is more than any game deserves.

48

I was having fun playing T3, raising my sub factions. But now that they changed it…I rather not play at all. I refuse to do the insane amount of contract grinding needed to level up my subfactions. I wanted to get all my factions up to rank 12…now I’m rather thinking of this game as a loss for the three DLC’s I bought on steam. Thought the game was great…with this change I’m just wondering what change next they will make to make me hate it even more. How about increasing ship repairs? Or what about making it so you only get credits on a win?

 

Basically if they dont sort out this huge grind, I’m done

49

Crosspost from Suggestions thread, but relevant:

 

Todays patch made contracts the only way to get sub faction rep. This has made it a lot slower to level, the idea obv bein to add more lifetime to the game

 

I disagree with that too. I can’t imagine that being the reason.

If anything, moving the goalposts to a point where it is almost infeasible has quite the opposite effect on me.

 

Case in point:
Quake III. This game offered NO progression, no change. The only thing that progressed was your own skill.

I have played that game for many years. Why? Because the gameplay was fun and ever challenging and everyone was on equal footing.

 

Now with loyalty being such a PITA to attain, I can’t fly the ships I want with the gear I want, unless I spend 15 billion years waiting for contract cooldowns or spend ludicrous amounts of gold (well over $110 to fully fit ONE T4 ship. Seriously?), and people that already have rank 12 in everything because loyalty was ok to grind before this patch have an absolutely massive advantage.

 

Also, If this is some cheap trick to get people to buy gold guns/modules then think again. People are not going to buy gold gear just because it was made it impossible to grind for the blue stuff before the heat death of the universe; It’s only going to make people find something else to do with their time and money.

 

PS: I bought all three DLC. don’t make me regret this. I love the game :-/

50

Judging from the massive amount of player feedback I have seen in chat, I would urge you Gaijin to reconsider these changes, you are only going to get hurt in the long run. TBH I felt that it was already grindy enough getting faction standings up, and in it’s current form I will easily be rank 15 in the races and will still not be able to fully MK3 fit a T3 ship. A lot of people are not happy at all with this decision, and if you don’t believe me please do an immediate poll, as I am confident the numbers and feedback will back up my claim.

 

If this move is to make more money in your cash shop (some ppl may not like this but I understand, it is a F2P game so you need to be able to make money somehow for the hard work you put into the game) -

 

  1. I bought DLC on Steam to support you guys, but now I feel that it was a bit of a waste seeing as the premium license I purchased with the gold credits is now worthless. Pilot’s license no longer has any incentives to it, as the rep increase was by far the most useful thing on it. I don’t see you guys selling more gold standards either, as nobody will want to buy a license now. I know there is no real reason to purchase the Steam DLCs either, short of some of the bonuses on ships reward bonuses that tbh I really don’t notice too much compared to my normal ships, as it really doesn’t add that much more money.

 

  1. This will not increase incentives for new players to stick around. Or old ones for that matter. Subfaction rep is way too long to grind now.

 

  1. If you want to increase premium item sales, make them marginally better than MK3, but marginally less effective than epic items (similar to how green drops are marginally better than Mk2, but not as good as MK3). That way, you are not truly making the items pay to win, and you still have incentives to buy premium items. Additionally, the old rep gain format would also encourage people to purchase a license.

 

  1. If this move was to combat bots, I for the most part did not notice tons of them to begin with (but did notice a few afk players). Better enforcement of any rules you may have on such a thing would be much better than alienating your player base. A better solution would be to remove loyalty gain from a loss, or even lower rewards, so that would be more motivation to work with your team to win matches, and still increase the grind but at a reasonable level. 

 

  1. there is no reason any longer to purchase hacked firmware. You are eliminating reasons to buy credits more than providing incentives to purchase credits with this change.

 

  1. It would be nice to know your reasoning behind the change, and I would encourage discussion on this before I can no longer find matches to play in because nobody plays any more. While these changes will not completely eliminate the player base (I’ll probably stick around) you will see quite the exodus I think. Again, put out a poll in game on this to get hard #s, as I believe the poll will match what I am claiming.

 

  1. at the very least, if you HAVE to have this current system, and want to ignore all the prior points which I really see only hurting the game in the long run, see what the OP recommended. The cooldowns on the contracts are ridiculous, and where it was taking me a week to rank a subfaction from 7-9, will now take months. that is with me pub matching and having about a 50% win ratio, which I would expect to be the norm from the average player. The amount of rep gain needs to be increased (they are the same or lower on most contracts that I have seen), and the cooldowns on any contracts worth anything are a week for 10K loyalty points. It takes 70K LP at rank 7, and their are 2 weeklies worth 10Kish each, that is 7 weeks to go from rank 6 to rank 7. That is not any kind of incentive to keep playing. And if nobody is playing, nobody is buying anything, and you are not making money.

 

Just my .02 loyalty points. From a contract with a 2 hour cooldown.

51

Please use this thread.

http://forum.gaijinent.com/index.php?/topic/18517-loyalty/

52

Whoa, what?

This sounds like a horribly bad idea and would restrict my playtime drastically…  that is unfortunate.  For one, many of the contracts are simply not able to be completed unless you choose an entirely different ship that can equip certain weapons/modules, ect.

 

So your options are limited in certain sub-factions and I have been at a standstill with 0 contracts able to be fulfilled, why play after that point?

53

I have rank 9 in all subfaction, so I dont care.

But

 

Previously, we could change a subfaction into an other to refresh all cooldown. That is how people like me got reputation very fast. I play for almost three months, and I play bery often (more than 10 days, around 1k4 games played)

I just wonder how much time it would be necessary to raise a subfaction like I did. One year ?

If you are in premium account, you’ll need 33% less time to do it. But still a few months. It’s huge.

 

And what about the spirit of teamplay and winning during the games ? When I have to “capture 2 beacon” and I’am a captain. I’m still rank 12 in my faction. Why should I play this game ?

 

In my opinion, if the dev break the loyalty system, they also need to invent a new one.

 

For example : Faction game.

A game where all people in the same team go for one faction. If they win, they raise their reputation with this faction. But the problem is that all factions are not balanced.

 

Now, people who want to continue to play have no options. Pay for licence ? Why not.

The main problem is : When you accomplish all your contract, what do you have to do now ? Go play another game.

I really think players should always have a reason to play. A reward. If they have no reward, they have no reason to continue to play.

 

But we need more and more player in order to improve the matchmaking. If people just come to do their contract, so there will be less player playing all the time and a worse matchmaking.

54

Since this is the “official” thread concerning this change, I want to throw in my voice complaining about it. It’s bad, it’s horrible, it’s disastrous.

The difference between MKII and MKIII is not “small” like some would like you to believe, it is huge. Two players of similar skill, in same ships, with same implants and exact same modules but one of them has all of them MKIII while the other has only MKII who are you going to bet your money on if they had a duel? Exactly.

Keep in mind I said similar skill so going “the one who is more skilled doesn’t work here”. People have already made calculations and found out that it would take YEARS to max out sub-factions with this system so don’t go all “well you should grind” on me. And that’s under optimal conditions, what if I take the two contracts that have to do with beacons and have 5 detonation matches in a row? Don’t talk to me about Regular, no one plays it and I don’t want to play something I do not enjoy just for the sake of few hundred loyalty rep.

 

Like others said, it is absolutely unfair to newer players and even if there was a wipe, it still would be horrible decision. People would just stop playing then.

You want to make contracts more relevant? Good, make their rewards higher in multitudes of ten not so little that I can barely even tell that they are higher compared to pre-update, decrease the cool-downs drastically, increase the amount of contracts, let us have more contracts on at the same time.

I liked the compromise idea from one of the posters: decrease the Loyalty reward from the match by 25-50% and increase the rewards for contracts.

 

This has to be change back now not in a week.

 

If we are going to talk money. I spent 20 bucks on this game to buy the dlc specifically for its rank reward bonus and the fact that it gave enough money to buy one month license which increased - you guessed it - rank, AND I had enough gold over to buy forged documents to change from Jericho to Empire for - surprise, surprise - rank bonus. Now you’re telling me the only incentive I actually spent money has been cut down by half? Now I’m almost regretting doing that and certainly wouldn’t have done that after today’s change.

This was the second game that I actually spent real money on in the last 5 years or so and you’re making me regret it.

55

Terrible change. It also makes Gaijin ( or YUplay) Look incredibly Greedy and short-sighted.

 

Guys, you should honestly reconsider this move.

 

I regret having bought a Licence and enough Standards for a second one.

 

Just disappointing.

56

I have found this post to be quite entertaining, the most vehement back-lash has come from players who brag about the money they have invested into this game.  In fact the change will most likely exacerbate the pay to win options, which many people have already taken full advantage of.  Personally I am content with the change. As it stands blues are more common than greens, and if were following the common MMO loot coloring system that’s a little backwards.  Now I won’t lie to you, I have a few hundred hours invested into this game and already have all sub factions to at least 9, so when I saw the news all I could think was how overpowered I would be. Most my ships can fit full blues as sit stands, so no skin off my back. 

 

As a final thought-

In the most resent Q&A the devs mentioned implementing a crafting system, which I would assume would help to gear out your ship.  So look to the future folks.

 

P.S. remember this is BETA people, the money you/we have invested into the game at this point should be considered a donation to the developers.  If you feel you have been shafted that’s on you.  In Beta things change, a lot, the developers need do do there job.  If you are looking for a secure investment “donating” to a beta game might not be the strongest choice. 

57

This change is bad. No more incentive for me to play. The reward will only materialize too far in the future to keep me interested. Yes, Mk3 matters and its cumulative effect is significant.

58

I have found this post to be quite entertaining, the most vehement back-lash has come from players who brag about the money they have invested into this game.  In fact the change will most likely exacerbate the pay to win options, which many people have already taken full advantage of.  Personally I am content with the change. As it stands blues are more common than greens, and if were following the common MMO loot coloring system that’s a little backwards.  Now I won’t lie to you, I have a few hundred hours invested into this game and already have all sub factions to at least 9, so when I saw the news all I could think was how overpowered I would be. Most my ships can fit full blues as sit stands, so no skin off my back. 

 

As a final thought-

In the most resent Q&A the devs mentioned implementing a crafting system, which I would assume would help to gear out your ship.  So look to the future folks.

 

P.S. remember this is BETA people, the money you/we have invested into the game at this point should be considered a donation to the developers.  If you feel you have been shafted that’s on you.  In Beta things change, a lot, the developers need do do there job.  If you are looking for a secure investment “donating” to a beta game might not be the strongest choice. 

 

Yours is the prefect example why this is a horrible change. I don’t have all the factions maxed out but I was somewhere half though (some sub almost at rank 12 but I have one that never leveled too). The old players are not going to feel the change, so it is no problem for them, the new players are going to get discouraged after they realize what is going on resulting in a stagnant dead game.

You’re right about the beta and changes, so people should voice their opinion when they disagree with something but don’t justify something that is blatantly bad. This change might not affect you but something in the future might and allowing things like this is exactly what would bring on that change.

59

I’m on the ‘it’s bad’ train.

 

It’s far more grindy now. I’m trying to understand it from any perspective other than it being a money sink, but I can’t. It’s like they analyzed the carrot on the stick principle, and decided to add thirty feet to the stick. 

 

If I jump into a battle now that will have no effect on my contracts, it feels utterly futile. What will I get out of the battle? Money? Ah, of course. I’ll need that for all the contract hopping i’ll have to do.

60

so people should voice their opinion when they disagree with something but don’t justify something that is blatantly bad. This change might not affect you but something in the future might and allowing things like this is exactly what would bring on that change.

 

I absolutely agree, Your opinions should be herd.  As it stands I’m not supper happy with the changes either.  But I went into this knowing it was a pay to win system, so I can’t be terribly irate now that they have turn up the heat.  There are still tons of ways around the pay to win system.  PVE farming nets you at least a green every run, which at T2 is about 7-8 minutes if you know what you are doing.  Green are comparable to blues and don’t require rep.

 

Not to sound insulting, but if you want to win there’s a way.  If your totally disappointed with the change look into PvE. With 3 other guys from my corp we can farm about 6-7 greans (and sometimes purples!!!) from running the scenarios.