I repeat myself again, watch the video and pay attention to the “Target view” in top-left corner, as soon as target lost its shield ALMOST NO ONE was connecting they focal points of the lasers to the hull, even the guy recording the video - look at his dmg scroll (left side of his UI, next to speed and energy bars) he was doing next to ZERO dmg to the hull.
… which is totally irrelevant, since no one’s complaining about his hull strength or regen.
Hes saying that only a few of the streams of lasers were actually hitting the target, it’s a problem you’ll encounter when you try and focus a laser up on a fast moving intie, where even though you’re locked on “perfectly” you aren’t doing more than trickles against it, I didn’t check the video again yet to see just how much damage he was actually doing, but it might have been the case.
Game too hard me want nerf everything Ace lazers too hard to shoot not kill interceptor heal too gud. Head hurt me lay down because organized players with higher skill than me make game too hard. I moan b/c game make no sense i hit lazers no die why no die. i no understand too much healz op nerf now plz.
By the way, that’s the reason why I never used lasers… the area you need to hit with them just feels smaller than with the other weapons. Frex, plasma bullets are fat - if you land them in te predicted target, they will probably hit the ship. Likewise with railguns. But with lasers, you hae to actually hit not the general circle of the HUD element, but the true mesh of the spaceship you’re shooting at.
This alone is a bit hard, as the spaceship - if it’s an intie or a fighter - is smaller than the targetting UI bracket - but also tricky because Your UI elements and laser beams obscure the tiny thing you are shooting at.
So, er, yeah. Lasers.
Having said that, I still retain my point (this I wrote this earlier in thsi thread) - healing frigs are basically BS in T3 onwards (and arguably the Hydra 2 is one of the best if not THE best ships in T2 too).
They were hitting his shields. You can see it from the target view in the top left and from how fast they were going down. The damage on hull wasn’t so much (partly because by the time they’d chewed through his shield, and his other shield, and his third and fourth shields, he was behind an obstacle), but that’s totally irrelevant to his shield regen.
Op is right. You’d have to be a complete moron to argue that the healing mechanics in their current state are fine.
One thing that I think people are missing is how the nerfing / removal of healing will change the Combat Reconnaissance mission. Consider; right now, the Captain turtles behind four Engineers and can quickly heal back to full health if anyone breaks though. If you tank healing through the floor, then all of a sudden these suicidal attacks become a big deal; suicidal Interceptors, or just about anyone who runs the gauntlet, can chip the Captain’s health away with him having little hope of restoring it quickly. The end result is that it discourages camping; you can hide and die slowly, or you can move as a team and try to crush the other side as a deathball.
One thing that I think people are missing is how the nerfing / removal of healing will change the Combat Reconnaissance mission. Consider; right now, the Captain turtles behind four Engineers and can quickly heal back to full health if anyone breaks though. If you tank healing through the floor, then all of a sudden these suicidal attacks become a big deal; suicidal Interceptors, or just about anyone who runs the gauntlet, can chip the Captain’s health away with him having little hope of restoring it quickly. The end result is that it discourages camping; you can hide and die slowly, or you can move as a team and try to crush the other side as a deathball.
This is a moot point, as a captain turtling behind 4 engineers and no one else is a dead man when a first 4 man squad just bum rushes him with 4 spec ops ships carrying nukes. You need a big mix of guard ships and probably an emp interceptor to properly guard your captain against focused assaults. Regen doesn’t mean anything if your captain blows up in a couple of seconds when they all time their unload > kamikaze > nuke combo right.
The solution to engy frigates!
KIll them fast.
The solution to engy frigates!
KIll them fast.
So, a squad in T2 focusing random frigates that lack the most powerful engineering modules.
How nice. That surely solves everything that is wrong with balance!
Look, Vin, that is a stupid solution. Sorry to be blunt, but it is.
At the most basic level, balance is a game of Rock Paper Scissors. Of course, Star Conflict is far more complicated, but in essence the rule still applies: Ship A beats Ship B, but loses to Ship C.
At the moment, the Frigates are a bit wonky on this scale, but the rest of the ships seem to fall into two categories; the Lone Wolves, and the Team Players.
Lone Wolves are ships that don’t really do anything for the team; all their abilities focus on themselves. Gunships are the prime example, having nothing in the way of squad boosts. These ships are the strongest in terms of raw damage output - one on one, the only ship that should survive a Lone Wolf is another Lone Wolf.
Team Players are the Command Fighters and their ilk; ships whose primary role is to support and strengthen other ships. Guard Frigates arguably come under this category because their ‘role’ is to act as a bullet sponge.
Where does the Engineer fall in this placement? They have some of the best squad-buffing abilities around; they heal health, heal shields, and can produce warp gates to help slower ships relocate quickly. And yet, despite this, an Engineering Frigate has one of the highest DPS outputs of any ship in the game. Six guns, plus two drone lasers; potentially double the firepower of a Fighter, or eight times that of an Interceptor.
This ship is far too good at everything, and that needs to change. The answer is not to nerf the Healing abilities to the point where the Engineer becomes a destroyer, but to reduce its defensive / offensive outputs so that healing becomes its primary role, with just enough combat ability to be useful in a joint action; alone, an Engineer should struggle to hold its own in the same way an LR Frigate does.
Where does the Engineer fall in this placement? They have some of the best squad-buffing abilities around; they heal health, heal shields, and can produce warp gates to help slower ships relocate quickly. And yet, despite this, an Engineering Frigate has one of the highest DPS outputs of any ship in the game. Six guns, plus two drone lasers; potentially double the firepower of a Fighter, or eight times that of an Interceptor.
This ship is far too good at everything, and that needs to change. The answer is not to nerf the Healing abilities to the point where the Engineer becomes a destroyer, but to reduce its defensive / offensive outputs so that healing becomes its primary role, with just enough combat ability to be useful in a joint action; alone, an Engineer should struggle to hold its own in the same way an LR Frigate does.
+1. As a engineer frigate player I do agree that engineers should not be able rush aggressively and slaughter opposing fleets. They should be hanging around behind the frontline, providing buffs and support fire. Currently, a lone engineer frigate can hold a beacon by itself against a few interceptors or even fighters, if well played.
At the moment, the Frigates are a bit wonky on this scale, but the rest of the ships seem to fall into two categories; the Lone Wolves, and the Team Players.
Lone Wolves are ships that don’t really do anything for the team; all their abilities focus on themselves.
Agree with the idea that engineers are capable of being the lone wolves they aren’t supposed to be, simply because of their high damage and the ability to heal themselves. IMO while the lone wolf of the frigates should undisputedly be the long ranged frigates, I feel that guard frigates should also be able to act as lone wolves from time to time, so that they can break off from the main fleet and head towards a strategic location (an inactive beacon in beacon hunt, or a good place near the enemy spawn to regroup and attack the enemy captain in recon). Once they’re there, they can defend that location till the main force arrives. Presently guard frigates are too slow to move anywhere. An interceptor with lasers can stay outside the range of pulsar and switch damage types to bypass phase shield, while circling to avoid the guard frigate’s turrets.
So, a squad in T2 focusing random frigates that lack the most powerful engineering modules.
How nice. That surely solves everything that is wrong with balance!
You can clearly see I am the only one killing them.
I don’t see them as much of a problem. Maybe if I’m not in my gunship, and say, a command ship, they might pose more of a threat. Even then though, the scissor to the paper for engy frigates are gunships. Which is what I fly mainly.
Make that vid again flying in T3 and we’ll talk.
I’m actually pretty happy with engy frigate healing in T2, and that’s what I mostly play these days because of it (and that was before nuke spam became a thing). Engy frigates are a bit OP overall, but that’s because they pack offense, defense, support and even mobility a bit too nicely in one package, but that’s a problem with the overall package, not specifically the healing part (personally I’d prefer to see it solved in T2 by nerfing their offence, then work a bit on LRFs to make them useful DPS frigates to fill the gap).
I see two main problems:
* Engy frigate healing modules give the same numbers to interceptors as to frigates. This is a problem because interceptors are designed to be difficult to hit and dodge a lot of fire and have low HP to compensate, so it effectively gives them way more regen than designed.
* The T3 Remote Shield Generator is WTF-OP. It heals way too much to way too many and its sole drawback is easily bypassed by having more than one engy frigate.
You won’t see the kind of stuff in the OP’s video in T2 because it’s pretty much entirely down to Remote Shield Generators, which are only in T3.
the only thing that needs to be changed is the cool down on the Remote Shield Generator to 60 sec. It will then be half the time of the remote haul. One of the main problems is though with this video is how do you miss with lasers?
Hard to keep a steady aim on a 700 m/s Kite or other fast interceptor I guess.
* Engy frigate healing modules give the same numbers to interceptors as to frigates. This is a problem because interceptors are designed to be difficult to hit and dodge a lot of fire and have low HP to compensate, so it effectively gives them way more regen than designed.
Leave the interceptor alone, Rapair small ships is more fast then reapir big ones dont you think? And the main problem he is the healing frigate alone.
There’s been a lot of discussion about heal frigates and suggestions in threads, and I kind of want to put together what we know and probably conclude; hopefully it reduces the random spam and lets us focus on fixing this. Lemme know if I get anything wrong:
- There’s a problem with engi frig balance.
-This means that fixes should be done to engi frigs specifically, not change the game around them.
- T3/T4 is being impacted more by this than T1/T2 since the 0.8 patch.
-This likely means the remote heals are involved in the imbalance.
- Interceptors and fighters are, and have always been, more viable with engi frigs support since before the patch.
-The continuous heals we have enjoyed for months is not an issue, and encourages diverse play.
- Engi has a balance of survivability, mobility, and damage output, while its frigate counterparts have disproportionate deficits.
-A nerf to one of these categories could help in balancing the engi frig further.
Hard to keep a steady aim on a 700 m/s Kite or other fast interceptor I guess.
I think it’s mostly the range and size of the hit box. At that range even on a stationary target that small you can be hitting with the left half your guns, move your reticle the tiniest bit to the left and you end up hitting with the right half and missing with the left.
Leave the interceptor alone, Rapair small ships is more fast then reapir big ones dont you think?
Not necessarily true, since my computer is harder to repair than my chair despite being a lot smaller, but tbh I don’t give a damn about RL reasons and neither should you. Can you give a *gameplay* reason for why engineering modules should benefit interceptors 4 times as much as frigates?
Anticipating that your answer will be “because otherwise inties have no survivability”, then that implies an interceptor *must* be near an engineer to be viable, which is a big balance issue itself. A better solution is to bring the benefits of engineering frigates on interceptors down to match their benefits on other ship classes, then balance interceptors to compensate.