I was pondering today over the current state of Guard frigates, and I came to a rather unexpected conclusion. Guards are way too good.
Nah, not really.
Actually, it’s more along the lines of “guards are too versatile”. I mean, they have a propulsion inhibitor field and pulsars and phase shields and tanky armor and damage resists and… you get the idea.
And it was in a post where JPhack mentioned the word ‘interdictor’ that I had my epiphany: The Mass Propulsion Inhibitor and Missile Shield shouldn’t be Guard modules, but Engineer modules. In turn, the Engineer modules Static Barrier and Warp Gate should be Guard modules.
Here’s my logic, Guards are considered OP because they can perform the roles of both an Interdictor and a DPS tank (Mass Propulsion Inhibitor + Pulsar). By giving the MPI and MS modules to Engineers, now Engineers can either be fitted as Healers or Interdictors but they lack the DPS and Survivability to become solo-boats. On the flip side, Guards can make better use of Static Barrier and Warp Gate because they are more likely to be on the frontlines where cover is badly needed, or they need to make a quick jump to the next objective so they can hold it down while backup arrives.
But the main thing is, by separating MPI and Pulsar modules into different frigate roles, it will now take an Engineer and Guard working together to have the same effect as a single Guard does now, thus making teamwork more vital and forcing Guards to rely on their teammates.
Thoughts? (Waiting for rage over giving Guards Warp Gate)
EDIT: After thinking it over, I’m actually more fond of the idea of giving Engineers Signature Masking instead of AMS. This would allow Engineers to better heal teammates who were under fire, while allowing Guards to still diffuse Tactical Nukes around objectives.
Soldiers, your post was like walking into a thick fog of stupid. I can’t conceive a better way to define how much you don’t understand about the game.
And people wonder why I’m not in NASA anymore…
Look, the entire premise of this post is that Guards are really 2 roles in 1 right now. They are both an Interdictor Cruiser and a Damage Boat. So rather than create an entirely new class or removing LRFs and replacing them with an Interdictor class, I figured a simple module swap would do the job.
Engineers are the support class, Guards are the defensive class. It makes more sense to have Engineers protect their team from missiles and deter interceptors from infiltrating their team’s ranks by stopping their movement.
It also separates Mass Propulsion Inhibitors from being used on the same ship as Pulsars. That is the main thing.
It might work to give Engineers Signature Masking instead of AMS, that way Guards can still diffuse TacNukes around beacons and Engineers can heal others that are under fire more effectively.
If you are catched by the Pulsar and the MPI at the same time, you are doing something wrong.
And that mean you are not using the R8 Federation’s Implant or you are not using Survival/Restoration modules.
The MPI and the AMS already have been nerfed several time.
Other fact : Engineers already have a lot of un-used/Under-used modules.
If you want to see Frigballz back, “YES” Give us the warpgate. Just give to the tankiest ship the hability to InstaRush a beacon or the middle of your fleet.
The true question is “Should I ask myself about my flying skill against guard or should I just consider myself like a GodLike Pilot and everything able to disturb me is OP?”
If you expect to be able to 1v1 a guard, it is possible (Considering the number of bad-fitted guard we can see in T2-T3).
2 Simples Advices against a guard : Positionning and Range.
If you are catched by the Pulsar and the MPI at the same time, you are doing something wrong.
Other fact : Engineers already have a lot of un-used/Under-used modules.
If you want to see Frigballz back, “YES” Give us the warpgate. Just give to the tankiest ship the hability to InstaRush a beacon or the middle of your fleet.
Mate, you are preaching at a Guard pilot… I fly frigates more than any other class and my favorites are the Anaconda-M and the Reaper.
This suggestion isn’t about me dying to Guards. It’s about refining their role on the battlefield. The troll-ish title was just a ploy to get more readers to view this topic.
One of the modules Engineers rarely use anymore is Warp Gate, mainly because of its insane cooldown time. Giving this module to Guards really won’t make much of a difference in frigballs because:
It still has a freaking long cooldown. We’re talking about warping once per every 2 objectives.
Guards can warp into the middle of enemy formations already provided you can find an Engineer with a warpgate. So giving the Guards the warpgate ability (which most Engineers don’t use because they want more heals) doesn’t change anything other than that warpgates might actually be used again. Shocking, I know.
Keep in mind it’s not only about the Guard. Warpgates also allow your teammates to follow you, so it make the Guard into a team player.
Giving Engineers a warpgate makes no sense because it encourages them to overextend and die. Guards, on the other hand, can tank the damage found on the frontlines.
Again, if you are caught both MPI and pulsar, then you are doing it wrong. Guard is slow enough already, if you take away MPI then pulsar will be useless. I dont want to have rushing boats pulsaring every beacon at start. Anaconda guard is doing it already.
Responding to Soldier: No, they don’t need any more nerfs, they were OP, now they nerfed them enough. They ain’t that big of a threat in the wrong hands as before, only against a good pilot you’ll face hell, but you need to know how to counter them, they can be killed as any other ship.
Engineers are OK as they are now, the Empire’s line are slow flying tanks of death and heal, and the Fed’s even if they can’t tank nor heal the same as their cousins, are awesome for a fast squad/team ('cause they can keep up with other ships when a fast assault is needed)
Guard - they guard their team Their main task is tanking and this happens by taking a lot of direct damage or using buffs and modules to prevent their team from incoming damage.
Sorry Sol, but no. The concept behind pulsars, AMS, MPI, Masked Signature says they are definitely guard type of modules. They are plenty to choose from, where you add unique survivability modules like Liquid Metal and Emergency Shield Booster. But after all that don’t forget you are limited to maximum 4 active mods at once.
With the last few patches the guards were imo brought in line with the rest as overall active module to module mechanics balancing goes. Passives and available slots vs base stats is another story that everyone knows it shifts dramatically across the tiers, where guards somewhat ‘exponentially’ evolve from T1 to T5 compared to other classes.
There is something interesting here tho: static barrier and warp gate to guards. As far as class compatibility goes, that’s there. But that reduces available active engineer modules dramatically and there isn’t much on the horizon for engineers, except if we come up with new module ideas fit for their main 2 purposes, where these 2 modules clearly fit the engineer, probably better than the guard in the end (read on). It wouldn’t be too much of a loss either, considering ~most~ players fit at least 3 active survival mods (out of x2 shield regen, x2 hull regen, energy regen, then there’s the common survival modules). While the guard’s main 2 roles are area denial / protection or fat durable gunship, the engineer is a support class (healing) or a utility class (warpgate, barrier). But if you have the slightest idea of a correct fitting, you will always fit your engineer with both aura heals, energy regen and the hull / shield regen station matching your main passive tank layout or squad’s required one, unless a planned game mode says otherwise to fit barrier or warpgate (2-3 engis working together as an example, but 3 is quite the overkill).
Some engineers do have the survivability to act as guards at times(Styx)
My first thought as well. In fact, I attract aggro the way a guard does sometimes. I don’t have residente’s insanely tanky Styx, but mine’s not too shabby.
Keep in mind it’s not only about the Guard. Warpgates also allow your teammates to follow you, so it make the Guard into a team player.
Giving Engineers a warpgate makes no sense because it encourages them to overextend and die. Guards, on the other hand, can tank the damage found on the frontlines.
Well… you don’t have to move through your own warp gate.
Anyway, my two cents’ worth on this topic. Presently, guards are tanky and have a strong presence (in terms of damage and effects). That’s a good thing: they’re dangerous so you can’t ignore them, but at the same time they don’t fall easily. THAT is a good guard. With the nerf to their self-heals, guards can last through a massive onslaught, but they won’t survive the next, which I feel is nice.
I used to have a static barrier on my Styx. Didn’t like it after a while, because it seems to impede me more than anything else. Likewise, it wouldn’t work for a guard. The static barrier works both ways: I’d be glad to have a guard frigate shield me from its coil mortars.
I’m only going to say this once more. This is not intended as a nerf, just role refinement via swapping modules. The title was just a hook to get more players to actually read the thread.
I understand that many players don’t agree that the roles of Guard and Interdictor should be separate. There’s really nothing I can argue to convince you if you don’t see a problem with a class that can immobilize and maximize damage.
Their main task is tanking and this happens by taking a lot of direct damage or using buffs and modules to prevent their team from incoming damage.