Hey guys im not trying to flame but I paid for the premium licence thing for more chances at purple loot to be more competetive etc. Why did you take them away without any kind of compensation! It’s not just the real money I feel is wasted but the countless hours it took to get the loot. Iv’e been away for a bit and wanted to fly some and checked my hanger and nothing is even flight ready I sincerely feel ripped off never seen anything like this before. Even if its just digital items i think you guys are borderline breaking the law toying with people like this.
I’m so tired of people who are bad at math trying to paint others as having this issue.
Let’s put it this way. BEFORE, if you got a Green or better item, it was YOURS. Now, if you get a Green, you have a 10% chance of actually getting it. (From this point on, these items will be referred to as Greens, even if they might be Purples.)
When you win a mission, depending on whether its PvE or PvP, you get 6-11 places to click on. In PvP you have the purple one (that USED to be guaranteed, now it’s still the 10% roll for some lame reason–despite spending 10-30 minutes on it rather than 3-8 in PvP), and possibly 1 or 2 Greens. In PvP there was always at least 1 green hidden on that map somewhere. NOW there’s at most 3-4 greens on the big ones, and around 2-3 on the little ones. That’s a multiplier of 2 to 3 or somewhere in between, not a multiplier of 10, which would be needed just to maintain parity.
In order for you to have BETTER ODDS of actually getting a Green with this new patch, then Greens would have to pop up at least TEN TIMES MORE OFTEN.
This is where you learn who understands math. For us to have equal odds now, EVERY SINGLE NODE WOULD HAVE TO AT LEAST HAVE A GREEN, and every single map would need to have at least 10 nodes. That gets you an average of 1 per map, assuming you could pick every node, which obviously you can’t. Even then it’s not guaranteed, but on average it would equal 1 green per map or two. Right now, it’s not even close. If they wanted to at least give the illusion of being ‘better odds’, they’d have to give a ton more choices (both times you ‘dig’ and sites to dig at), or simply make them all some Green item that you have the 10% chance to find.
The only thing surprising is that some people deceive themselves into thinking we have better odds. The best part is when they ask for proof, as it’s easy to provide with each loot extraction screen.
I have had games this weekend (note plural) where I saw FIVE green/purple loots out of five nodes. A common win nets around 1-2 green on nodes on average.
In the old looting system, I saw a single green every 10 wins or so without license (3 attempts). Purples were much rarer. I’ve got two purples I can use this weekend alone. And destroyed at least ten more trying to extract them, probably more. My average speed of getting purple loot, especially MEANINGFUL purple loot unlike the two hull EM resistance mods I have was much slower then it was during this weekend.
Stop crying and do the math yourself. If you can’t, use a calculator. Chances to get loot are BETTER now if you’re willing to spend gold, and about the same if you’re not.
I think the first quote answers the second. Yes there are games out there where every single loot spot hides an item (although it is pretty much the Culombo’s wife effect to me yet).
So one: yes, mods ARE in fact more common than they used to be before. Which is nice. BUT, the increase in their numbers does NOT compensate that you only get every tenth. Because, no I’m not gonna spend real money on something which isn’t surely going to be mine. If I want to get modules for gold, I’ll go buy a premium blue one.
Also, this whole “crying”, as you say - I myself like the expression “voicing displeasure” better - is not generally about not getting loot. It’s about the attitude of the new system. If they want to cut the drop rate, cut it flat. If they want to raise it raise it flat. But what they are doing right now is actually cutting the droprate, and at the same time try to make it look as if it was raised.
Like when you say an item IRL is discounted by 10%, but when you buy it you need to pay a +30% shipping fee.
The guaranteed loot from PvE, as it was before 0.8.1, isn’t guaranteed anymore. Since it’s longer than most PvP matches and loot chance is roughly the same, why do PvE then?
I hope it’s a bug and not intended.
This is a bug.
Why not have some more options, like 10% = free, 30% = 500k credits, 50% = 1Mio. credits, 80% = Gold.
This would make gambling much more Interesting
Having a range of options allows both small impulse purchases, as well as the ability to drop more gold on something a player really wants. It would cater to a wider audience which is always a good thing in a F2P model. Of course, I don’t have the actual values for drop chances so this might require some balancing.
- Have the random number generators add in a new mechanic where, occasionally, we find Damaged Modules. These could come in pretty much any form you like - from “Damaged T1 Shield Booster S Mk I” to “Damaged T4 Experimental Nuclear Warheads” or whatever. When such an item comes up the player has a choice - sell the scrap for a decent lump of silver, or pay gold to restore the module to working order.
Modules recovered in this way should have zero chance of breaking. If you pay to repair the module then it always works and is yours to keep.
Restoration! Why didn’t I think of that. It’s a much more positive way of looking at the same problem/solution. Essentially, the end product would be the same, but presentation is half the battle. I believe players would be a lot more receptive to something like this, as it adds to the rewards of victory rather than feel like the game is punishing people.
So essentially, you’d prefer being screwed out of more items, so long as you’re not told that to your face?
Okay. I’m sad for you frankly. You remind me of people who invest tons of money into lottery because they’re not told the actual chance of winning to their face.
its freaking pay2loot … horrible
So essentially, you’d prefer being screwed out of more items, so long as you’re not told that to your face?
Okay. I’m sad for you frankly. You remind me of people who invest tons of money into lottery because they’re not told the actual chance of winning to their face.
I think you’ve got something wrong. Thou I can’t be sure since I don’t even understand what you mean by that…
I prefer the old, simple loot system. I don’t like this one, because it’s pretentious. Actually I think you’re the one buying the lottery and not me. *shrug*
((Also I don’t even dare to say out this aloud since it makes you so mad but the new loot system has actually lower drop rate than the old one. But shhhhh… ))
I think you’ve got something wrong. Thou I can’t be sure since I don’t even understand what you mean by that…
I prefer the old, simple loot system. I don’t like this one, because it’s pretentious. Actually I think you’re the one buying the lottery and not me. *shrug*
((Also I don’t even dare to say out this aloud since it makes you so mad but the new loot system has actually lower drop rate than the old one. But shhhhh… ))
That is what I said. New system tells you when you lose. Old system doesn’t. That’s not pretentious, that’s open.
That’s how lottery works - you have a low chance, but a lot of people play it because they don’t understand the math.
Finally, please provide a source on that bold claim about reduction of drop rate. It appears you have caught devs lying.
That is what I said. New system tells you when you lose. Old system doesn’t. That’s not pretentious, that’s open.
That’s how lottery works - you have a low chance, but a lot of people play it because they don’t understand the math.
Finally, please provide a source on that bold claim about reduction of drop rate. It appears you have caught devs lying.
What you’re talking about when saying it’s being open is the extraction system. The loot in the loot system, so to speak. I had games - multiple of them - where I’ve found no items from 5 tries this weekend. The old loot system was just as open in this way… only without holding out the carrot when you found an item.
Oh really proof? If you insist I might dig into the log files of the game, but then you should in return show up equal proof that there are at least 1 items on every loot map.
That simple.
Thanks Knightingale. You’re awesome. I’ll agree on the ‘half’ MMO thing.
Looks like more people came in who are bad at math. Thanks for re-posting my debunking of it.
Luckydo, while we’re doing anecdotal data, I got a green about every 2nd or 3rd win under the ‘old’ system. So I don’t know why you were so unlucky. I guess I could go on about how that math system you’re talking about is messed up but… oh, wait, I already did that. Unless the new system gives you TEN TIMES as many chances as the old one, it will never reach parity or greater odds on giving you loot. How this is ‘displayed’ to the character is irrelevant. Hard, cold math shows you are wrong on this and that people get less stuff with this new system.
Old system:
PvP: 4-8 nodes. 1 green (or better color). Odds: 12.5% to 25.0% per pick.
PvE: 1 Purple node, guaranteed drop. 1 Green (or better) hidden in the rest (yes, I’ve gotten two off the old PvE, plenty of times) of 10 nodes. Odds: 100% for 1. 10% per pick for 1 more.
New system:
PvP: 5-8 nodes. Up to 4 greens hidden. 50% odds of ‘finding’ one, assuming maximum spawn rate, for one pick. 10% chance to actually acquire. Final result: 5% odds for a single pick…
PvE: 1 Purple node, guaranteed item but not guaranteed extract. 3 Greens (or better) hidden in the rest, assuming good spawn rate. 30% chance to acquire non-guaranteed. Odds of getting 1 green from a single pick (after the obvious one): ~13%.
12.5% to 25.0% is higher than 5%.
100% with an extra 10% for bonus is higher than 13%.
This is the simple math for you that shows you, and everyone else who assumes there are more drops, is wrong. Now, we could get COMPLICATED and start doing the changing % for each pick, then build a matrix that determines those %'s based on each success or failure, and then total up ALL that and average it out to find what the new odds are. But it will look worse for the new system. True, the numbers of ‘finding’ one grow for each after you pick one and it ‘is not’ a Green or better. This is hampered by the new system, as there are greater odds of finding something, which skews odds in the favor of finding greys. The old system favored increasing %'s as there were so few actual green ones to find (usually ‘1’) that each ‘wrong’ choice would result in better odds.
As for catching devs ‘lying’, I’ve come to realize that it is par for the course in this game. But, in this case, just keeping to the patch notes and none of the stuff said by them in the forums (cause, honestly, I don’t look for it), they have not at all lied here.
They said they reduced the chance to get the item due to extraction (true). They also said they increased the probability of you FINDING loot, not you actually GETTING or ACQUIRING loot. Merely that they show up under more of the blips.
Now, when it comes to lying by OMISSION… hoo boy. But that’s another topic. So far, it seems only “white knighting” true believers try and make the rest of the gaming populace believe that they have better odds of getting new items. The devs don’t have to try, because they have people like Luckydo here to do it for them.
Have the random number generators add in a new mechanic where, occasionally, we find Damaged Modules. These could come in pretty much any form you like - from “Damaged T1 Shield Booster S Mk I” to “Damaged T4 Experimental Nuclear Warheads” or whatever. When such an item comes up the player has a choice - sell the scrap for a decent lump of silver, or pay gold to restore the module to working order.
After reading your post I support your idea.
I cannot say anything on rollback topic, but once again, now you loot More and you also get More. Drop rates are Not worse than before. They are in fact increased.
Not when then repair cost have been increased.
As for catching devs ‘lying’, I’ve come to realize that it is par for the course in this game. But, in this case, just keeping to the patch notes and none of the stuff said by them in the forums (cause, honestly, I don’t look for it), they have not at all lied here.
They said they reduced the chance to get the item due to extraction (true). They also said they increased the probability of you FINDING loot, not you actually GETTING or ACQUIRING loot. Merely that they show up under more of the blips.
Now, when it comes to lying by OMISSION… hoo boy. But that’s another topic. So far, it seems only “white knighting” true believers try and make the rest of the gaming populace believe that they have better odds of getting new items. The devs don’t have to try, because they have people like Luckydo here to do it for them.
Honestly, I did not read the whole patch note. And if the patch note says there will be actually less drop in the end than there used to be… well I’m fine with that. I don’t like it nevertheless.
That’s why I’m here, to keep up a civilized discussion comparing the old system to the new one, may give some suggestions - as I’ve did some posts above - and pray the Devs will actually look at this thread, if not even read it. Because I think the new system is not that helpless. It just sucks in its current form.
(and thanks Bladebearer for saving this thread from falling into pointless interweb b*tching and whatnot)
I love the new looting, lets me see what is out there.
You should have an expensive pay for 100% chance option, though.
The times I chose 30% and lost made me swear to never spend a gold on it again.
Being able to see a wide range of what is out there is far more interesting than not looting anything game after game.
I like the new system because I recieve more silver credits than before, but dislike it because I have only successfuly looted one item since the update (a T3 experimantal ir flare I believe). I do think the loot %s are a bit low, and that paying gold standards only increases the chance of success by 20% is even lower than I believe it should be (although, evn if you fail, you get more silver credits than if you didn’t spen the gold standards). Maybe a 12-17% without playing, and a 35-40% when paying?
I reckon fiddle the algorithm and have it do a check:
If someone hasn’t gotten a pick up in 10 tries, make the next one 100%
If its someone’s first loot, make it 100%.
First impressions are really important.
Someone will never loot anything and give up the game. Its unlikely but it will happen if its completely random.
Put in a fairness check to ensure people get something.
This poll is more a graph of who got lucky with loot in the first week than an indicator of how good the system is.
I’m quite sure chances getting green/purple are fine the way they are. Only problem i see is that players who pay money now have higher chance than others to get purple items. its on borderline to ptw concept.
In one match, I looted three t3 military items.
A few matches before that, Experimental T3 item
A few matches after that, Another t3 military item
This was in a span of 30-40 minutes… and these were received as usable items.
I’m quite sure chances getting green/purple are fine the way they are. Only problem i see is that players who pay money now have higher chance than others to get purple items. its on borderline to ptw concept.
It should be 40-60%(non-pay/pay) IMHO, good chances for both, and if you pay a slightly better chance but not as much difference as it is now.
Old system:
PvP: 4-8 nodes. 1 green (or better color). Odds: 12.5% to 25.0% per pick.
PvE: 1 Purple node, guaranteed drop. 1 Green (or better) hidden in the rest (yes, I’ve gotten two off the old PvE, plenty of times) of 10 nodes. Odds: 100% for 1. 10% per pick for 1 more.
New system:
PvP: 5-8 nodes. Up to 4 greens hidden. 50% odds of ‘finding’ one, assuming maximum spawn rate, for one pick. 10% chance to actually acquire. Final result: 5% odds for a single pick…
PvE: 1 Purple node, guaranteed item but not guaranteed extract. 3 Greens (or better) hidden in the rest, assuming good spawn rate. 30% chance to acquire non-guaranteed. Odds of getting 1 green from a single pick (after the obvious one): ~13%.
12.5% to 25.0% is higher than 5%.
100% with an extra 10% for bonus is higher than 13%.
Umm, those figures are not real.
Simple math, yes, but it is based on numbers that are invented and not based on empirical evidence, so it doesn’t prove anything.
For PvE it is simpler, and there definitely lies a problem, but your numbers for PvP seem quite off.