Give us Feedback: New Looting

Game Discussion Levelling and Economy
41

Small error there (I’ll skip rest of the discussion, just focus on this slightly misleading idea you have there):

 

 

While in other games you get “colorful loot” quite often, quite often also in those other MMOs it is useless loot. Wrong item type, wrong class, wrong build, already got better one of same slot or whatever reasons often dictate in MMOs that the loot is mostly trash to be sold for pennies. And it actually brings more playability for the game to not to get all the items immediately.

 

 

In Star Conflict, the loot is build so, that purple loot is (currently) always the end-game gear for that tier; it doesn’t (currently) get any better than that: When you loot purple, it is the end-gear in that tier, no better gear of same item to be expected for that tier for that slot.

 

Surely of course getting all slots purple, for all ships in that tier that you like flying, and then same thing for next tiers is a big, long task, but that is the case in every MMO.

 

 

It is always tricky when making example case of or analogy to some other MMO, as the different games have varying economy systems. Star Conflict doesn’t really compare well to the RPG kind of looting system, where there are lots of levels and more complex role-systems (compared to only 4 tiers (soon 5 tiers) in SC and (when compared) few role / class related items).

 

Okay, right I get what you’re saying there.

Let’s not compare SC to any other MMO, I do admit that’s a bit unfair.

I also understand that in every game (without comparing) you have to work hard for the top quality items, and it’s no different here.

But when you read what I’m saying about the items per hour, also consider the fact that around 80% of the loot items are not purple but green.  And that’s not the best tier in the game - by a longshot.  You can buy blue items which are better than green ones - yes you have to earn them by playing a lot and getting loyalty, by that’s perfectly okay if you ask me.  By the time you got a green item of the desired type you can get enough loyalty for a blue one…  (in T1-T2 which are the most played ones, if your W/L is good enough, you can get it done even in T3)

About the items dropping for the wrong class etc. - even if SC is a whole lot more uniform game than others, most of the players have a preferred gamestyle here too.  Say you don’t like playing Command, because supporting doesn’t fit you.  Or you prefer Covert OPS over Reckon.  I bet you will play your “end-game” games with your preferred type of ships.  What if you don’t get loot for them?  There’s no warranty you will get drop for Gunship or Covert OPS or Guard, any more than let’s say Tackler or Engineer or Reckon…  So much about not getting wrong class drop.  ( if you get drop at all 8D )

42

Since the new Patch brought a new Lootingsystem, I and the Devs would like to hear some feedback.

 

Please Vote, so we know how this great change has affected your Ingame experience.

 

Please keep this thread clean of disscussions about it. Suggestions about tunigs and tweaks are welcome.

 

 

 

 

 

This Poll will be closed at 2nd of June, midnight. Make sure to Vote untill this time!!!

43

My problem in the new loot sistem are:

1-Too low chance to get a loot: is inhumane showing us items who have 90% chance to broken.

2-The debris are too cheap, give us at least 50% of the sell  value of the item.

44

I would prefer less items but high chance, so when we find one we have a chance to get them, but as Arqueiro said, it’s not cool to find tons of cool things and broking every single one of them… a game is supposed to be funny imo, and that’s frustrating, specially when you find some item perfect for your ship and its like, I know I will lose it…

45

a) Fix PvE purple loot spot

b) Either drop gold price for 30% chance or increase chance itself for the same price

46

I voted “so and so”.

I dont have that much problems with breaking an interesting item and dont get enraged about it, but I also can understand the players who are complainig about it. 

Why not have some more options, like 10% = free, 30% = 500k credits, 50% = 1Mio. credits, 80% = Gold.

This would make gambling much more Interesting :wink:

47

I think there are a few ways to look at the new loot system.

 

Drop rates compared to the previous loot system are obviously higher, which is good.

 

Adding an option to use standards to increase loot drops is, imo, good way to generate revenue. However, it’s a slap in the face to those that do F2P. I think an option to use credits to increase the extraction rate may be a good idea, although I’m not sure what % would be balanced/fair (maybe 1:1 with the current standards > credits conversion).

 

However, communication and execution of the system has been extremely poor.

 

With a base extraction rate of 10%, players will see a lot more loot (good), but b/c there’s a 90% chance that they will lose it, they will be desensitized to the joy of seeing it in the first place. My personal extraction rate without using standards is currently under 10%, but I only have a small sample size of ~100 loots. Of those…I have gotten 1 thing useful, which is higher than my personal average prior to patch. I can understand this objectively, but subjectively, players went from a 100% I see it I get it to a 90% I lose everything I see.

 

I am trying the P2P model b/c I have some extra standards and am one of the folks already investing $$$ in the game (since I’m not playing any other subscription/P2P games). Whenever I see an experimental loot, I spend standards (I think this works out to < $1 USD in T2/T3 for ~200-300 standards) to increase the loot chance to 30%. In this regard, I am slightly over 30% actual looting when paying, but again, small sample size of ~10. With the new loot system /w standards, I have dramatically increased the number of experimental modules I can access. I’ve looted more experimentals since the last patch than I’ve ever gotten previously in the old loot system in the past month.

 

However, again, instead of seeing that I’m paying for a 30% chance to extract, I know that I still have a 70% chance to lose the item and in truth, I’ve only managed to get 1 useful item. Again higher than the previous loot system. At the same time, I’ve failed to extract 2 useful experimentals I wanted, and those are the ones I remember when I think of the new loot system.

 

What I haven’t checked yet is how the cost of increasing extract via standards compares to just buying Standard weapons on par /w Mk III, but there (ought) to be some balance, e.g. it’s cheaper to gamble 3 times on an item compared to just outright buying the premium items.

 

I can have battles where I find 5/6 items and they all break (license & merc pack) even with using standards to increase loot chance. That feels like a loss. I think most people would prefer to lower the overall ‘find an item’ rate and increase the ‘extraction rate’ - you could even tweak the algorithm so it’s the same current net drop rate (since it sounds like the devs are okay with this). It would be nice if there were an expensive credit & standard cost to increase the extraction rate to 100%.

48

I concur with previous posters, is really frustrating to know what you won’t get because of the low chances of retrieving safely the items, even 30% when using galactic standards is too low imo.

In other places of the forum it has been proposed to allow an option to hide this tab that teases you, although i think the best idea is reduce a bit the chances of getting items and then increase the % of retrieving them safely as well with some more options that further increase the probabilities, some that only require credits would be nice too.

49

Math failure of epic proportions from you. Green is exceptionally common to appear now, and you get 10% to extract it. I wouldn’t be surprised if chance to get green loot was slightly better then before when picking free extraction option.

   I’m so tired of people who are bad at math trying to paint others as having this issue.

 

  Let’s put it this way.  BEFORE, if you got a Green or better item, it was YOURS.  Now, if you get a Green, you have a 10% chance of actually getting it.  (From this point on, these items will be referred to as Greens, even if they might be Purples.)

 

  When you win a mission, depending on whether its PvE or PvP, you get 6-11 places to click on.  In PvP you have the purple one (that USED to be guaranteed, now it’s still the 10% roll for some lame reason–despite spending 10-30 minutes on it rather than 3-8 in PvP), and possibly 1 or 2 Greens.  In PvP there was always at least 1 green hidden on that map somewhere.  NOW there’s at most 3-4 greens on the big ones, and around 2-3 on the little ones.  That’s a multiplier of 2 to 3 or somewhere in between, not a multiplier of 10, which would be needed just to maintain parity.

 

  In order for you to have BETTER ODDS of actually getting a Green with this new patch, then Greens would have to pop up at least TEN TIMES MORE OFTEN.

 

  This is where you learn who understands math.  For us to have equal odds now, EVERY SINGLE NODE WOULD HAVE TO AT LEAST HAVE A GREEN, and every single map would need to have at least 10 nodes.  That gets you an average of 1 per map, assuming you could pick every node, which obviously you can’t.  Even then it’s not guaranteed, but on average it would equal 1 green per map or two.  Right now, it’s not even close.  If they wanted to at least give the illusion of being ‘better odds’, they’d have to give a ton more choices (both times you ‘dig’ and sites to dig at), or simply make them all some Green item that you have the 10% chance to find.

 

The only thing surprising is that some people deceive themselves into thinking we have better odds.  The best part is when they ask for proof, as it’s easy to provide with each loot extraction screen.

50

Pretty much everything about this new looting system has been done badly.

 

It is a system that devalues Military / Experimental loot, changing it from something to be excited over finding to a source of bitter disappointment. What’s more, despite what the developers have said, these broken items can wind up giving you less money than some grey scrap items.

 

But the biggest slap to the face is the extortion of the player base; we can either not pay and lose the item, or we can pay to probably lose the item anyway with no increase to our reward. We are not paying for a service; we are paying for a lack of service!

 

If you want to push this stuff, how about you do it properly?

 

  1. Go back to the old system.

  2. Have the random number generators add in a new mechanic where, occasionally, we find Damaged Modules. These could come in pretty much any form you like - from “Damaged T1 Shield Booster S Mk I” to “Damaged T4 Experimental Nuclear Warheads” or whatever. When such an item comes up the player has a choice - sell the scrap for a decent lump of silver, or pay gold to restore the module to working order.

 

Modules recovered in this way should have zero chance of breaking. If you pay to repair the module then it always works and is yours to keep.

51

Also, Star Conflict isn’t an MMO.
It’s Space Diablo, with a PvP focus.

 

52

I’d prefer the old looting system, but i can see merit in this system.
the rates need to be higher tho, maybe 40/60%(non-pay/pay) to make it actually worth looting.

53
  1. Have the random number generators add in a new mechanic where, occasionally, we find Damaged Modules. These could come in pretty much any form you like - from “Damaged T1 Shield Booster S Mk I” to “Damaged T4 Experimental Nuclear Warheads” or whatever. When such an item comes up the player has a choice - sell the scrap for a decent lump of silver, or pay gold to restore the module to working order.

 

Modules recovered in this way should have zero chance of breaking. If you pay to repair the module then it always works and is yours to keep.

 

That would have been an excellent system. It covers both sides intentions(devs wanting to make additional money out of looting/players wanting to actually get the loot). I could gladly pay for restoring an damaged item worth a damn. But the current mechanic with its %chance increase is… just not worth the money to spend it on.

54

@ Bladebearer:
Yesterday I played around 40 matches, won like 10-many, looted that many times with the server wide license.  Got 4 item loots, no more.  No maps gave more than one item.  (got none of them but that’s needless to say now)
It might be just my bad luck but I find it hard to believe there are 2-3 items on each map at the least.
((Also it’s refreshing to see some reasonable arguing.))

SC though not an RPG, it is an MMO.  MMO is the general term, and is used for games which are not RPG-based.  Since you are playing versus players (thus it requires “online” connection and a “massive” amount of players for “multiplayer”) and you can in fact upgrade your character in some way or another it is by definition an MMO.

55

How about this.

 

When you loot, you get a pop-up of a chance to extract an item (you don’t know what it is).

 

10% (or higher extract chance if you decrease the overall drop rate) chance it’ll be an item (just like now). If you fail, you get extra credits (yay!). Otherwise you get a green (sell for more than the extra credits, yay!) or a purple (whoa o.O b/c you’re expecting a green!). Heck, even add the option to get STANDARDS and I think people will be really happy.

 

You can still have a credits/standards option to increase the extraction rate. I’d consider lowering this cost or dramatically increasing the extract %. Maybe make it the same as how much credits you’d normally get if you fail the extraction so folks can pick b/w bonus credits OR a higher loot chance for an item. This, however, may greatly hurt the chance for people to spend standards if they don’t know what it’s for.

 

this is kind of like Jasann’s model.

 

Another idea:

When you loot, you get a pop-up of a chance to extract an item - only show them the green item and have a pay option to get a chance to extract a purple. This model may destabilize the balance of current distribution, but just an idea.

 

Slot machine idea:

When you loot, you get a pop-up of a chance to extract an item - show a list of items including credits, a green, maybe a purple, loyalty, etc. Basically make a slot machine - you automatically get 1 chance to loot from the ‘set of items’, which removes them from the list. Give the option to pay for an extra ‘try’. This way, people that are lucky can get the item they want in 1 try. People that see what they want in the machine, but are unlucky can pay for extra tries until they get all the items in the box.

 

Bad thing is that it takes more time to loot after a battle.

56

Knighingale… so, by your definition, Diablo, Mass Effect 3, all the online Call of Duty (and Halo, and Gears of War, and Battlefield, and…) games, and StarCraft are all MMO’s as well?  Because your character ‘levels up’ or is upgraded in some way?  (I mean, if you really believe this, that’s cool, that’s just no how I define an MMO at all).
  I… disagree with this.  One of the requirements for an MMO, at least in my own definition, is that it has a world that persists on the server whether or not you are there at all, and where all the players on that server can interact with each other (hence ‘massively multiplayer’).

  Star Conflict does not have any of this this.  It’s a matchmaking service for controlled, excluded PvP and PvE fights.  Your character is your ‘stuff’ and has no individual identity or avatar.  You don’t share the same places as other players except in matches, there’s just a chat channel and your own hangar.  There’s multiplayer, but no ‘massive’.  Even Battlefield can have 40 VS 40 fights, and that’s not 'Massively Multiplayer" either. 

  Now, our definitions may vary, and that’s perfectly OK, but the way I see it Star Conflict just doesn’t fit.  Maybe they intend to change that in the future, but I see no reason for it.  If they could just fix the loot issues, the balancing issues, the camera issues, and the matchmaking issues (ie: go back to the previous patch!), this game would be perfectly awesome the way it is.

 

As for the ‘luck’ in item drops, I did about 10 PvP matches yesterday, we won 3 (to be fair, I was a T1 in games with T2’s and T3’s, and that stupid system still seems to put all the high tier guys on one side more than the other).  One time I ‘found’ 2 greens (one was a purple, actually, both broken), one time I found 3 greens (one actually did NOT break, but it is one of the ‘less weapon spread’ Green passives that are useless to me in T1), and the other time I found 4 greens.  All on the same map.  I did PvE about 4 times.  Two were losses, the other two both of the ‘guaranteed purple nodes’ broke (one was a Purple Plasma Cannon, which filled me with terrible rage), and there were 1 green and 2 greens found that all broke on the others.  So… summary, 14 Greens or better, came away with 1.
  The new loot system blows, and there’s little reason to bother with it right now given everything else (like looking up my Frig’s colon the entire match).

57

The guaranteed loot from PvE, as it was before 0.8.1, isn’t guaranteed anymore. Since it’s longer than most PvP matches and loot chance is roughly the same, why do PvE then?

I hope it’s a bug and not intended.

58

Knighingale… so, by your definition, Diablo, Mass Effect 3, all the online Call of Duty (and Halo, and Gears of War, and Battlefield, and…) games, and StarCraft are all MMO’s as well?  Because your character ‘levels up’ or is upgraded in some way?  (I mean, if you really believe this, that’s cool, that’s just no how I define an MMO at all).

  I… disagree with this.  One of the requirements for an MMO, at least in my own definition, is that it has a world that persists on the server whether or not you are there at all, and where all the players on that server can interact with each other (hence ‘massively multiplayer’).

  Star Conflict does not have any of this this.  It’s a matchmaking service for controlled, excluded PvP and PvE fights.  Your character is your ‘stuff’ and has no individual identity or avatar.  You don’t share the same places as other players except in matches, there’s just a chat channel and your own hangar.  There’s multiplayer, but no ‘massive’.  Even Battlefield can have 40 VS 40 fights, and that’s not 'Massively Multiplayer" either. 

  Now, our definitions may vary, and that’s perfectly OK, but the way I see it Star Conflict just doesn’t fit.  Maybe they intend to change that in the future, but I see no reason for it.  If they could just fix the loot issues, the balancing issues, the camera issues, and the matchmaking issues (ie: go back to the previous patch!), this game would be perfectly awesome the way it is.

 

As for the ‘luck’ in item drops, I did about 10 PvP matches yesterday, we won 3 (to be fair, I was a T1 in games with T2’s and T3’s, and that stupid system still seems to put all the high tier guys on one side more than the other).  One time I ‘found’ 2 greens (one was a purple, actually, both broken), one time I found 3 greens (one actually did NOT break, but it is one of the ‘less weapon spread’ Green passives that are useless to me in T1), and the other time I found 4 greens.  All on the same map.  I did PvE about 4 times.  Two were losses, the other two both of the ‘guaranteed purple nodes’ broke (one was a Purple Plasma Cannon, which filled me with terrible rage), and there were 1 green and 2 greens found that all broke on the others.  So… summary, 14 Greens or better, came away with 1.

  The new loot system blows, and there’s little reason to bother with it right now given everything else (like looking up my Frig’s colon the entire match).

 

Aaaalright, yep I guess that makes sense.  You’re right, my “definition” for an MMO is in fact wider, and I do accept what you say.  ((how about listing SC under half-MMO…?))

This looting system at the given moment would only make sense if

a) they gave more option for extracting, with different chances (see post above)

b) they added a useable Craft feature - which they promised they would - so you could actually make purple/green items from the useless drops

59

I have had games this weekend (note plural) where I saw FIVE green/purple loots out of five nodes. A common win nets around 1-2 green on nodes on average.

 

In the old looting system, I saw a single green every 10 wins or so without license (3 attempts). Purples were much rarer. I’ve got two purples I can use this weekend alone. And destroyed at least ten more trying to extract them, probably more. My average speed of getting purple loot, especially MEANINGFUL purple loot unlike the two hull EM resistance mods I have was much slower then it was during this weekend.

 

Stop crying and do the math yourself. If you can’t, use a calculator. Chances to get loot are BETTER now if you’re willing to spend gold, and about the same if you’re not.

60

I still don’t like it, but it’s kind of growing on me, I think I could accept it if the chances were changed to 33%/100%.

I think I’d actually spend MORE gold standards on this if I knew I’d get the item with them. I’m mostly F2P and only have a few thousand standards, and I don’t get a kick out of gambling, so I’m not willing them to spend my precious standards on a mere 30% chance.

Alternatively, if you want to support the gamblers and the risk averse, add a more expensive third option and make it 10/30/100.