Exodus of Veterans from Star Conflict

Game Discussion Miscellaneous
41

I share a lot of the same thoughts as the OWLs. This game poses a lot of issues for veteran players. 

 

Like Gizmo said, Frigball Conflict has arrived. 7 or 8/10 games I play nowadays either start as a frigball, or devolve into one. Yes, frigballs can be countered, but it takes teamwork and the correct ships with the correct builds. Teamwork in this game is punished, so it is unlikely that a squad capable of taking down a frigball will be on the other team, and very few people in this game know what ships to take in order to take down a frigball. Most take frigates themselves, resulting in the game devolving even further to frigball v. frigball, which I personally find quite boring, as games that are frigball v. frigball tend to be very stationary.

 

The tackler drones aren’t OP in T3, true. Like g4 said, they actually take some skill to place correctly. But in T5, they are OP (mainly the normal sentry drone). Here is why:

-No spread

-High damage

-Ridiculous projectile speed

It is an auto-aim weapon that you don’t even have to be anywhere close to it to use. Sure, it’s damage isn’t great compared to a frigate, but compared to a fed fighter or any interceptor, it does way too much for being able to hit 90% of its shots (against skilled ceptor pilots at that).

 

Balance in this game has never been perfect, but the current balance is horrible. I don’t know how t1 and t2 balance is, but T5 balancing almost nonexistent. Out of 25 games I play in T5, maybe 1 or 2 are balanced at the level of T3 or T4. Most T5 games throw 3-4 pros and 1-2 n00bs on one team, and 1-2 pros and 3-4 n00bs on the other. How is this balance? A balanced game would look like 3 pros and 3 n00bs vs. 3 pros and 3 n00bs. Tier-rushing doesn’t help with this at all, as it fills T5 with n00bs who have 1 or 2 premium T5s with all white gear who have at most 100 pvp battles. Personally, I feel that no one should be allowed into T5 pvp unless they have 800+ pvp games. This way they have enough experience to know how to successfully compete in T5 games.

 

Lastly, I cannot emphasize this enough, but I HATE how this game punishes teamwork. This is supposed to be a team-game, and yet 4-man squads rarely find games, if they do, they are restricted on what ships they can use. And when squads DO find games, the team they get is extremely bad. This has led me to play other games where I can actually play games with my friends without sitting in a queue for well over 5 minutes. In WT, we can find a game in a 4-man squad in less than 2 minutes in most cases (longest wait time I’ve ever had in a 4-squad in WT was 3 minutes).

 

I have been a long-time advocate of bringing in new blood to this game, but I do not want it to be at the cost of the veterans.

I myself am on the virge of becoming one of these veterans that has quit the game. The only things keeping me around at this point are dreadnoughts and my great friends in NASA and OWL (and some other various corps). Please don’t ruin this game for the rest of us vets who have stuck around. I quite enjoy playing this game, and I would hate to see this game go by the wayside.

42

IIRC the plasma web does 3800 dmg with purple weapon. 

After the resistance reduction? Coz I take 2200 thermal hit by tackler drone with 100+ resist…

43

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with 100resist it should be ~1,7k

44

Yeah, that’s a lot less than ONE hit of tackler drone at 2200 + (with same resist). And we don’t even speak about 2… or 3. Coz at 3, a fed inty is dead (I know, you can evade / destroy the drone before that). The point is : a plasma wab can’t destroy a ship on it’s own and has 45 sec cd.

45

The only OWLs I’ve fought against (4 out of 5) use that setup…

Abuse of the DD is plain disgusting in higher teirs, and quite annoying in lower teirs.

Also fixed your typos.

Thank you for fixing my typos.

I for my part can say that the last time i flew an ECM was about one year ago. Oh wait this is untrue. I had to fly ECM in sec con due to the ongoing ecm spam back in the days. Ah and doomsdays, I do not use them, never will.

And, I do understand you very well. It has something immensly enraging, getting ripped out of the game by a DD. Out of this rage there can easily come a generalisation, it’s natural :wink:

But keep in mind, that maybe just maybe a corporation is dynamic enough to actually have different opinions inside the same structure :slight_smile:

46

I am one of the 2 DD OWL. You can hate me :slight_smile: I only use it on my ECM, not other ships and 80% fly it as cap. Why? because it is effective.

In T5 is is way more easier to hit with than in T3, because you can stun your enemy forever with the waki. This is why I think an ECM nerf is really necessary in T5. partly or totally turn off somebody for 20-30 sec it too much. One module shouldn’t take longer than 3-5 sec.

but still I don’t think the DD breaks the game. Usually good for finish a damaged ship, or take down the rest of the shield.
But for me hit with DD is not easier than hit with an orion shrapnel.

 

I also can’t agree with the cheap tricks and holy honorful weapons. I already followed to much rules to be good pilot. I gave up. Somehow the weapon/ship what I’m using always the one what is cheap trick. I don’t care anymore. I use what I use, deal with it. I don’t make the rules and the balance. The async balance is broken even in T3 since the guards are too powerfull now. Even a monkey can survive with a guard these days.

So a lot of the average players brings it. And I can’t blame them. I blame the devs who move the game into the way.

 

If I would make the rules:

  • the tackler drones would get back the spread,

  • and they would disappear if the tacker is out of 7k range.

  • The beacon drones would get back the old damage and durability,

  • the ECMs get the module nerf,

  • the coil get back the self/friendly fire damage,

  • and the R13 implant would be nerfed, specially the empire and the jericho.

  • The teams would get full random enemies, or auto created squads,

  • and the full squad players would get +10% income.

  • Ohh and I would remove the -1rank from golden ships (don’t be p2w) 

  • and reduce the difference between MK1 and MK5 modules.

  • I would force lock ships to the tiers matches, (no more T2 in T3 etc.),

  • and remove the DD from T1-T2 (maybe T3 too.) 

Today I spent at least 30 min in queue wait for game with my team. The R9 top queue is still broken so no styx, wolf-m for the T3 4 man squads. This is still a punishment. Just goldens + R8. Stupid idiot bug since when? Maybe November? 5-6 month and no fix for the bug what punish the full teamplay in T3… 

(please fix my Typos :smiley: I’m too tried for dat)

47

…

 

I also can’t agree with the cheap tricks and holy honorful weapons. I already followed to much rules to be good pilot. I gave up. Somehow the weapon/ship what I’m using always the one what is cheap trick. I don’t care anymore. I use what I use, deal with it. I don’t make the rules and the balance. The async balance is broken even in T3 since the guards are too powerfull now. Even a monkey can survive with a guard these days.

So a lot of the average players brings it. And I can’t blame them. I blame the devs who move the game into the way.

 

…

 

Well i can understand what you mean, for a month after weeks of frustrating matches i used the waki ae with DD and shrap. It was evil. But then i realized that it wasn’t fun, just trollish, at least for me.

And you know: being trollish doesn’t make someone better teammates than instead who really try to do something helpful without using cheap tricks.

 

No “honor” involved here, it’s just a matter of facts: if you use stuns and then ping the target (instead of stuns + DD), than someone else can kill him and you still have your missiles (kinetic, small, whatever) for your own defense (DD can’t be used in dogfight unless stuns or slowing things so you can’t consider them as “self defense weapons overall”). In t5 you also get bonuses for you and your teammates due the r13 implants for the shared kill. Good tactics are still viable even in these days, don’t became a troll just because of frustrating matches. As i always say: you are better than that :stuck_out_tongue:

 

Feel free to ignore my opinions, we are not here to “teach” or bs like that.

48

I am one of the 2 DD OWL. You can hate me :slight_smile: I only use it on my ECM, not other ships and 80% fly it as cap. Why? because it is effective.

In T5 is is way more easier to hit with than in T3, because you can stun your enemy forever with the waki. This is why I think an ECM nerf is really necessary in T5. partly or totally turn off somebody for 20-30 sec it too much. One module shouldn’t take longer than 3-5 sec.

but still I don’t think the DD breaks the game. Usually good for finish a damaged ship, or take down the rest of the shield.

But for me hit with DD is not easier than hit with an orion shrapnel.

 

I also can’t agree with the cheap tricks and holy honorful weapons. I already followed to much rules to be good pilot. I gave up. Somehow the weapon/ship what I’m using always the one what is cheap trick. I don’t care anymore. I use what I use, deal with it. I don’t make the rules and the balance. The async balance is broken even in T3 since the guards are too powerfull now. Even a monkey can survive with a guard these days.

So a lot of the average players brings it. And I can’t blame them. I blame the devs who move the game into the way.

 

If I would make the rules:

  • the tackler drones would get back the spread,

  • and they would disappear if the tacker is out of 7k range.

  • The beacon drones would get back the old damage and durability,

  • the ECMs get the module nerf,

  • the coil get back the self/friendly fire damage,

  • and the R13 implant would be nerfed, specially the empire and the jericho.

  • The teams would get full random enemies, or auto created squads,

  • and the full squad players would get +10% income.

  • Ohh and I would remove the -1rank from golden ships (don’t be p2w) 

  • and reduce the difference between MK1 and MK5 modules.

  • I would force lock ships to the tiers matches, (no more T2 in T3 etc.),

  • and remove the DD from T1-T2 (maybe T3 too.) 

Today I spent at least 30 min in queue wait for game with my team. The R9 top queue is still broken so no styx, wolf-m for the T3 4 man squads. This is still a punishment. Just goldens + R8. Stupid idiot bug since when? Maybe November? 5-6 month and no fix for the bug what punish the full teamplay in T3… 

(please fix my Typos :smiley: I’m too tried for dat)

Oh don’t be silly, you are not hated. You are just acknowledged as a one trick pony and dealt as such. As long as you don’t use DD in tier 2 it is ok.

 

Just don’t complain about ECMs while you use one, because you know, it is a bit weird…

49

I just made my “DD coming out”, because I don’t like to be the guy who makes the shame on the OWLs. I read several OWL posts where they didn’t want to write my name. So hit me instead of the corpmates, I’m that a*shole.
I’m sure the other DD user corpmate will also write if you ask him nicely :slight_smile: We are only 2 from the many and deal with us this is not a bad rate. 

 

Well i can understand what you mean, for a month after weeks of frustrating matches i used the waki ae with DD and shrap. It was evil. But then i realized that it wasn’t fun, just trollish, at least for me.

And you know: being trollish doesn’t make someone better teammates than instead who really try to do something helpful without using cheap tricks.

 

No “honor” involved here, it’s just a matter of facts: if you use stuns and then ping the target (instead of stuns + DD), than someone else can kill him and you still have your missiles (kinetic, small, whatever) for your own defense (DD can’t be used in dogfight unless stuns or slowing things so you can’t consider them as “self defense weapons overall”). In t5 you also get bonuses for you and your teammates due the r13 implants for the shared kill. Good tactics are still viable even in these days, don’t became a troll just because of frustrating matches. As i always say: you are better than that :stuck_out_tongue:

 

Feel free to ignore my opinions, we are not here to “teach” or bs like that.

I already do :slight_smile: You count too many things as cheap tricks, so you don’t give me too much choice. Proximity, Anomaly, ECM, DD, Frigball, T3 (btw this is weird who has to change from guards in example a full random team.) etc.

If you play with a team, you can ping something, maybe somebody can kill the stunned enemy, but in solo it is easier to DD it and finish it. 

 

You are right, the game become frustrating. And since we are on the same TS we can easily blame each other instead of the **** dev who thinks listen to the community is just a 1st April joke.

 

Oh don’t be silly, you are not hated. You are just acknowledged as a one trick pony and dealt as such. As long as you don’t use DD in tier 2 it is ok.

 

Just don’t complain about ECMs while you use one, because you know, it is a bit weird…

I don’t play in T2 we can talk about those veterans too. T2 is simply not fun. No modules, no energy stable ships. With golden R6 ships you have a huge advantage.

And why is that weird? I know it is OP in T5, I’m against it, but I still want to win as well. So when I feel the enemy is stronger, or I die too many times, I take my ECM. I think it is still more acceptable then disconnect don’t you think? We can talk about those veterans too who stand to the edge of the map when they are losing or ever worst disconnect from the battle.

50

I think its not dishonorable to use da DD, its part of the game and when the developers think its a good idea, u can use it. On the other hand the devs should just get rid of da things, but thats not player res.

51

I don’t play in T2 we can talk about those veterans too. T2 is simply not fun. No modules, no energy stable ships. With golden R6 ships you have a huge advantage.

And why is that weird? I know it is OP in T5, I’m against it, but I still want to win as well. So when I feel the enemy is stronger, or I die too many times, I take my ECM. I think it is still more acceptable then disconnect don’t you think? We can talk about those veterans too who stand to the edge of the map when they are losing or ever worst disconnect from the battle.

Playing T2 is not bad, I do it sometimes just to teach some friends or help them with the tier 2 ships. You need to play more conservative, because as you said you are not stable, you don’t have enough modules or passives and everyone can kill you easy.

 

The problem is using DD and Crystal drones to farm newbs, because in tier 2, you can one shot almost anything with a DD because they have no tank or EB whatsoever.

 

Concerning your fears in T5, well, you choose to pick your ECM if you want to win, some others prefer to “git gud” and counter the enemy with skill instead. 

 

I don’t care about veterans loitering the map if they are losing, or even disconnecting. Most of the time if they do that, the game is already lost. I have gone afk in some games after the first two minutes, lose the game, and still went first in kills and eff even if the total game time was more than 6 minutes. But it is ok, you hit that start button again, and hope for better luck next time.

 

As I say, I can fight against the enemy team, but not against mine.

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Removed by Author 

53

I’m not sure if u r talking about me coz I never play t3 really but I got a DD waki fit for being captain in combat recon. It’s fit with plasma gun and it’s for medium range fighting. It’s 100% a support ship and I find DD good to fill the DPS gap. I haven’t ever thought that DD is a game breaker in t5. It has long cool down, only 3 in the cartridge and I still miss many shots coz u got to stay in the right range, consider enemy speed and direction and the stun got to be timed accurately. It’s good to limit the gunship rage sometime or the drone poopers. On frigs it just deals the coupe the grace if well timed. If all of this brings shame on my beloved corp just let me know :wink:

By the way, back on topic, as already stated I really doubt that DD make vets leave the game. I die by doomsday, by recon mines planted in my nose, also just yesterday I’ve been double stunned by 2 ecm together (one was wpk) and got posi snipered by zenchronos…(ask catbox he was there with me) That doesn’t make me willing to quit. I had fun anyway.
The only thing that really annoys me sometime is just the lag… I love when I can’t hit anything at all (sarcasm). And we had insanely lag recentely. When game lags some game mechanics can be exploited. So I would add the lag to the op reasons which can make vets willing to quit :wink:

54

…

I already do :slight_smile: You count too many things as cheap tricks, so you don’t give me too much choice. Proximity, Anomaly, ECM, DD, Frigball, T3 (btw this is weird who has to change from guards in example a full random team.) etc.

If you play with a team, you can ping something, maybe somebody can kill the stunned enemy, but in solo it is easier to DD it and finish it. 

…

 

Yep they are cheap tricks good for some solo play, to get some kills and being on top of effectiveness list.

 

But in a squad? How can a mined beacon helps your teammates that doesn’t even know if mines are friendly or not? In a team battle how can anomaly do damage apart against nAAbs? Ecm ultra survivable with no damage how can help teammates if the guys you stuns are km away from your squads, and most of all you use them only for yourself? Frigballing it’s something you need to do in those days if you want to win “staged fights” against other organized squads. So?

 

It’s not a matter of honor, i don’t care such things: i care about team play. Since you are using such stuffs, most of the time for laziness not because you are not able to use something else, i don’t consider you or who act like that a good team mates. 

55

This was about vets leaving SC. Now we discuss Doomsdays. Are Doomsdays in T5 really the reason vets leave this game? Would any vet NOT leave if Doomsdays were removed?

 

Doomsdays, at best, are a small part of what makes frustrated NEW players leave in T2 (there are many more: unbeatable vets, superior golden ships, unsuitable builds to counter stuff like CovOps, etc.).

 

And yeah, while I am no Vet, I also use Doomsdays on some T2 builds - but OTOH I now only use Standards (no Premiums) in T2… at least until now (but I’m rapidly not caring anymore).  But the corp is full anyway, so no need anymore to fly those T2 recruiting missions. Doomsdays have been in T2 since day 1 (of release).

 

What I find most annoying (beyond the current utter crap with dread battle times) is, that while T5 seems larger now than some time ago (got some 8v8 there), it now seems completely random how the teams are set up - with lots of inexperienced (even less experienced than me, that is) players now.

 

Detonation: enemy fields Recons, my whole team spawns in Frigs… all players 200 matches or less. Well, at least it was over quick. But if you know you’ve lost after 10 seconds in match… you start to ask “why even bother”?

 

Also - the whole new sector conquest things seems to strongly favour those corps which could field their dreads early - undefended sectors, free for the taking. Any latecomer is already severely disadvantaged. So - “why even bother”?

 

EU Battle times for Fed sector? “Why even bother”.

 

And those “why even bother” elements just seem to add up.

 

Some of your arguments are not true for me and questionable but the feeling “why even bother” it’s the same here :expressionless:

56

Playing T2 is not bad, I do it sometimes just to teach some friends or help them with the tier 2 ships. You need to play more conservative, because as you said you are not stable, you don’t have enough modules or passives and everyone can kill you easy.

 

The problem is using DD and Crystal drones to farm newbs, because in tier 2, you can one shot almost anything with a DD because they have no tank or EB whatsoever.

 

Concerning your fears in T5, well, you choose to pick your ECM if you want to win, some others prefer to “git gud” and counter the enemy with skill instead. 

 

I don’t care about veterans loitering the map if they are losing, or even disconnecting. Most of the time if they do that, the game is already lost. I have gone afk in some games after the first two minutes, lose the game, and still went first in kills and eff even if the total game time was more than 6 minutes. But it is ok, you hit that start button again, and hope for better luck next time.

 

As I say, I can fight against the enemy team, but not against mine.

Seems we are on the same page on several point. I don’t agree with the T2 play but that is just one thing. Seems we are just handle are frustrations on a different way. 

You disconnect, or go afk, and I take my ECM and die on the beacon or at the spawn or somewhere. Non of them helps so much.

 

Yep they are cheap tricks good for some solo play, to get some kills and being on top of effectiveness list.

 

But in a squad? How can a mined beacon helps your teammates that doesn’t even know if mines are friendly or not? In a team battle how can anomaly do damage apart against nAAbs? Ecm ultra survivable with no damage how can help teammates if the guys you stuns are km away from your squads, and most of all you use them only for yourself? Frigballing it’s something you need to do in those days if you want to win “staged fights” against other organized squads. So?

 

It’s not a matter of honor, i don’t care such things: i care about team play. Since you are using such stuffs, most of the time for laziness not because you are not able to use something else, i don’t consider you or who act like that a good team mates. 

The anomaly is a hard weapn as most of the good ones, and if you learn to use it, you can hit hard enemies also, not just the nAAbs. Against the nAAbs every weapon is easy adn cheap. Specially these days you need that amount of damage to break the frigball. I use it since I played once with Omega, and I think if I practice more, I can be really deadly with that. (imagine if a teammate can slow down the adaptive guard or and ecm catch it before I hit.)

About the proximity it is very good to keep under fire the other interceptors, during we fight for the beacon. I’m not a real killer in the game, but I can hold a beacon alone against 3-4 enemies. I also use them to damage the big ships, I just put the mines onto them. How can I help for the team? I can keep a beacon alone. I don’t care if they nerf the mines I don’t want to kill them with it. The funny part is, my corpmates told me I should use them at the time when I just used the missiles on my reacon. And now I should change it back because it become cheap… no way.

 

Just because I don’t use your preferred weapons I’m not become lazy, or not become less helpful for the team, and the weapons not become cheap ticks.

 

 

 

But the whole discussion is just make me feel, why the hell we are arguing these small things what we can’t really change. At the end we all want the same, and we won’t get it because who has to take care of the community, they just don’t listen don’t make their job well.

I don’t like to arguing too much about this game anymore, this is why I started play some other games too :slight_smile: What we can play together and have fun in that. This is the easiest solution for the balance problems.

But if they don’t fix the leaking T5 veteran problems, we’ll meet in the Star citizen soon 

57

Seems we are on the same page on several point. I don’t agree with the T2 play but that is just one thing. Seems we are just handle are frustrations on a different way. 

You disconnect, or go afk, and I take my ECM and die on the beacon or at the spawn or somewhere. Non of them helps so much.

 

The anomaly is a hard weapn as most of the good ones, and if you learn to use it, you can hit hard enemies also, not just the nAAbs. Against the nAAbs every weapon is easy adn cheap. Specially these days you need that amount of damage to break the frigball. I use it since I played once with Omega, and I think if I practice more, I can be really deadly with that. (imagine if a teammate can slow down the adaptive guard or and ecm catch it before I hit.)

About the proximity it is very good to keep under fire the other interceptors, during we fight for the beacon. I’m not a real killer in the game, but I can hold a beacon alone against 3-4 enemies. I also use them to damage the big ships, I just put the mines onto them. How can I help for the team? I can keep a beacon alone. I don’t care if they nerf the mines I don’t want to kill them with it. The funny part is, my corpmates told me I should use them at the time when I just used the missiles on my reacon. And now I should change it back because it become cheap… no way.

 

Just because I don’t use your preferred weapons I’m not become lazy, or not become less helpful for the team, and the weapons not become cheap ticks.

 

 

 

But the whole discussion is just make me feel, why the hell we are arguing these small things what we can’t really change. At the end we all want the same, and we won’t get it because who has to take care of the community, they just don’t listen don’t make their job well.

I don’t like to arguing too much about this game anymore, this is why I started play some other games too :slight_smile: What we can play together and have fun in that. This is the easiest solution for the balance problems.

But if they don’t fix the leaking T5 veteran problems, we’ll meet in the Star citizen soon 

Elite Dangerous and No Man’s Sky seem more promising since Star Citizen looks like an overpriced dream for a guy with super deep pockets working as a nuclear engineer.

58

Elite Dangerous and No Man’s Sky seem more promising since Star Citizen looks like an overpriced dream for a guy with super deep pockets working as a nuclear engineer.

Star Citizen will be a boxed title, and costs around as much as Elite Dangerous, which was even more expensive in the backing process.

59

Star Citizen will have high requirements on hardware and cost lotta money, it might prevent some people from getting it. Same with Elite…but not so bad. 

60

By the way 2 things that really broke the game to me and need to be deleted at all are the “destructor” and the “Cruise Engine Modification” that started the drone pooper tacklers spam…