ofc Orion isn’t the issue coz it was nerfed to xxxx
I never just don’t get that DD hate, I’ve been killed by it only few times and I was overextending anyway.
Moar of da issue are drones atleast for me… had way too many games when after I died saw entire list of dmg from drones… :01313:
I have to agree, I don’t die often from DD, but it’s really frustrating when a hit coming from nowhere remove 90% of your hull and shield. I guess it’s because it is not used by much. I don’t use it coz I find it lame (have like a hundred in hangar), and some other in my corp have the same idea, they use it for the lulz effect sometime, but find it a bit OP.
But it’s kind of the pinacle of this issue.
Yup, I often look at damage to see 75 % of non-aiming damage (pulsar, drones - tackler / ingi ones - homing missiles, like DD… ) Having a small portion of it is good. But there is really too much now.
ofc Orion isn’t the issue coz it was nerfed to xxxx
I never just don’t get that DD hate, I’ve been killed by it only few times and I was overextending anyway.
Moar of da issue are drones atleast for me… had way too many games when after I died saw entire list of dmg from drones… :01313:
I think most people rage about DD because they do so much damage, and the times they die to it are the times that either A) they were overextended or B) stasis’d.
Doomsdays are really only effective against n00bs, catching vets by suprise, or hitting frigs.
Drones are another story. Tackler sentry drones are a wee bit overpowered right now. The fact that they can hit a ceptor with no effort that is wiggling around like their pants are on fire (bad metaphor, but idc, it’s almost 1am) and do pretty huge damage, makes them kinda OP.
Sure, they are an effective counter to ceptors, but so is a skilled tackler pilot who uses slows. Teamwork is also a great counter to ceptors (to anything really, but I rarely see good teamwork anymore).
I think most people rage about DD because they do so much damage, and the times they die to it are the times that either A) they were overextended or B) stasis’d.
Doomsdays are really only effective against n00bs, catching vets by suprise, or hitting frigs.
Drones are another story. Tackler sentry drones are a wee bit overpowered right now. The fact that they can hit a ceptor with no effort that is wiggling around like their pants are on fire (bad metaphor, but idc, it’s almost 1am) and do pretty huge damage, makes them kinda OP.
Sure, they are an effective counter to ceptors, but so is a skilled tackler pilot who uses slows. Teamwork is also a great counter to ceptors (to anything really, but I rarely see good teamwork anymore).
The main problem about DD is that they don’t scale with tiers, they do the same damage from tier 1 to tier 5. I don’t care about DD in tier 4 or tier 5. But using it in tier 2 (usually by vets) just to farm newbs, it is lame. Same with the crystal drones.
Concerning the tackler drones, I don’t think they are overpowered. I get killed by them and sometimes people will just poop the double drones and cloak and they are really annoying, but they are a good tool for a good tackler pilot. I don’t see people complaining about the plasma web here, and it is another auto-hit feature, that does the same damage over time than 2 drone hits (if you got more than 2 hits, you are doing something wrong).
In fact, since the buff to the Fed 8 implant long time ago, something was needed to tackler the uber maneuverable interceptors in high tiers. The drone is the answer and I think it is a good one.
The main problem about DD is that they don’t scale with tiers, they do the same damage from tier 1 to tier 5. I don’t care about DD in tier 4 or tier 5. But using it in tier 2 (usually by vets) just to farm newbs, it is lame. Same with the crystal drones.
This is true. I do think DD damage needs to scale with tiers, as 10k is wayyyyy too much in T1/T2, only slightly too much in T3, and is about right for T4/5
In fact, since the buff to the Fed 8 implant long time ago, something was needed to tackler the uber maneuverable interceptors in high tiers. The drone is the answer and I think it is a good one.
Clearly you haven’t seen gauss-tacklers. a skilled gauss-tackler can easily 2 or 3-shot a ceptor (sometimes 1-shot if they have no EB).
Clearly you haven’t seen gauss-tacklers. a skilled gauss-tackler can easily 2 or 3-shot a ceptor (sometimes 1-shot if they have no EB).
Haven’t you meet yet my strafe rockwell with gauss? You will have a good time!
After 2000+ hours in any game, you will start to feel it getting repetitve. Even real life gets boring if you spend too much time doing the same thing! That is why holidays were invented. Now imagine if when you went on holiday (resp. took a break from a game), you would jump into a completely new life (resp. try a different game), wouldn’t you possibly want to stay there?
Now I’m getting a bit philosophic here, but put simply, I’m trying to say is that people come and people go. Veterans will be replaced by new veterans. The old ones are in a way going into retirement. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
There is a difference between leave and leave.
Check the soccer, that is way more repetitive. You go outside with your friends, so you have only one map, and one game mode. The key is the play with the friends.
You never get bored if you play with your friends. The key is the Multiplayer, what the devs still don’t understand well.
My problems with the game:
Guards are way too strong in a ball.
Drones are OP
Really I have to lose my half of my hull to finish 4 beacon drones?
In 3vs2 or 4vs3 the smaller team always get at least 1-2 veterans and the bigger team get 1-2 n00bs with -1 tier ships.
ECM-s and Tacker drones are still OP in T5 and nobody care about it.
I often see the pilots call the game pay2win because of the golden ships, but the real problem is the golden ships usually has full gear.
the 4man squads still don’t get games.
(F*ck you devs I started to play WT and HOS where I CAN PLAY WITH MY FRIENDS!!!)
We get games in 1-3 min with 4-5 player.
When I play solo, I feel if I’m doing my best we I can win with the randoms.
When I squad up with friends I never feel the same, because the MM balance is bad, specially if my squad mates doesn’t have full purple ships.
This makes me play more solo, or play something else.
Please give us back the balance what we had at the begining of the Intercorporate tournament, and give us back the 4 man squads.
There is a difference between leave and leave.
Check the soccer, that is way more repetitive. You go outside with your friends, so you have only one map, and one game mode. The key is the play with the friends.
You never get bored if you play with your friends. The key is the Multiplayer, what the devs still don’t understand well.
My problems with the game:
- Firgball Conflict has arrived.
Guards are way too strong in a ball.
- No aim weapons for the win.
Drones are OP
- Beacon drones buffed (silently?)
Really I have to lose my half of my hull to finish 4 beacon drones?
- MM is terrible unbalanced when 2 different size teams fight.
In 3vs2 or 4vs3 the smaller team always get at least 1-2 veterans and the bigger team get 1-2 n00bs with -1 tier ships.
- T5 balance is terrible, (the endgame is still broken and this is why we leaking the veterans)
ECM-s and Tacker drones are still OP in T5 and nobody care about it.
- The difference between the white and purple modules are too big.
I often see the pilots call the game pay2win because of the golden ships, but the real problem is the golden ships usually has full gear.
- Teamplay is punished.
the 4man squads still don’t get games.
(F*ck you devs I started to play WT and HOS where I CAN PLAY WITH MY FRIENDS!!!)
We get games in 1-3 min with 4-5 player.
When I play solo, I feel if I’m doing my best we I can win with the randoms.
When I squad up with friends I never feel the same, because the MM balance is bad, specially if my squad mates doesn’t have full purple ships.
This makes me play more solo, or play something else.
Please give us back the balance what we had at the begining of the Intercorporate tournament, and give us back the 4 man squads.
The frigball problem is a direct result of the constant interceptor nerfs. Frigballs can be broken though, and they are only good in certain maps (the tube one, and mostly in beacon hunt and small maps)
Drones are not OP. And I’m an interceptor player.
Yes, beacon drones got buffed when they got the sputnik model. I don’t know if it was intentional or not, but now they are twice as durable, and they do about 50% more damage. This is only my impressions, I don’t know why and if it is intended. But as a recon pilot I had all the times and now I feel something is different.
That is balance, nothing to complain about. If you have 4 men squad and in front of you you have a 3 men squad, it is good that they get at least better randoms.
T5 is not broken. Waki AE with certain builds is borderline broken. The rest of the ECM are ok. Same with drones, only the lion MK2 because of range is very annoying. The usual drone poppers are useless.
The difference between white and purple is big, as intended. But the difference between green and purple is no that much. I have many green ships, and I’m doing fine with them.
Teamplay is not punished. Now 4 men and 3 men squads get games really fast, at least in low tiers. Tier 4 is very difficult, and tier 5 it is OK to find game, at least in peak times.
In fact, since the last squad changes, more and more people are fighting in squads. Give it a bit more time.
t5 is broken for solo play imo, i prefer t3 / t4 (t4 balance is epic, why can’t the other 4 tiers be like that)
I don’t see people complaining about the plasma web here, and it is another auto-hit feature, that does the same damage over time than 2 drone hits (if you got more than 2 hits, you are doing something wrong).
I want the same plasma web than yours! The one that does 4k + total damage!
I want the same plasma web than yours! The one that does 4k + total damage!
IIRC the plasma web does 3800 dmg with purple weapon.
The frigball problem is a direct result of the constant interceptor nerfs. Frigballs can be broken though, and they are only good in certain maps (the tube one, and mostly in beacon hunt and small maps)
Drones are not OP. And I’m an interceptor player.
That is balance, nothing to complain about. If you have 4 men squad and in front of you you have a 3 men squad, it is good that they get at least better randoms.
T5 is not broken. Waki AE with certain builds is borderline broken. The rest of the ECM are ok. Same with drones, only the lion MK2 because of range is very annoying. The usual drone poppers are useless.
at the moment, guard-balls are a common sight. especially in T5, where a guard does not even need an engi to be strong.
Sentry drones should have a harder time taking out beacon drones. That is their biggest problem, in Capture the Beacons, the tactic of leaving them at beacons and come back later to capture it, is imho, my personal biggest problem with this.
again, I can live with this in T5. It’s endgame. I simply play less there, because the next problem is, the number of unexperienced pilots in T5 is breathtaking. Of course, again, there are sometimes really nice matches. But mostly the chance of getting a good team vs. a good team is so much higher in T3, because the players there sometimes have more experience than a T5 player nowadays. That is just weird!
In an ideal T5 scenario, where every game would have endgame players, I could even live with the implant rules, since it would only become part of the tactic to “remove a ship once it lives too long just to counter the implants”, but atm. i think that is in most games impossibru.
basicly i can share some of your views, but not all of them; especially not those, where you paint an overly optimistic picture with subjective coloursets; but at least, this time, i liked that there is not just counter-argumenting in your post, but also some agreement:
- Yes, beacon drones got buffed when they got the sputnik model. I don’t know if it was intentional or not, but now they are twice as durable, and they do about 50% more damage. This is only my impressions, I don’t know why and if it is intended. But as a recon pilot I had all the times and now I feel something is different.
I did not notice that, nor did I believe Gizmo as he told me. Interesting.
anyway, i think, talking about specific game mechanics problems kinda misses the point of the thread, as far as i understood skiffle here. it is more about, why people are leaving, not specific detail problems or balance issues. This is what we always talk about in the end. But we have to face it, that is not, what most players are leaving the game for.
- t5 is broken by design. i am clear, you might not see that, you might not be a game designer, but the r13 implant is still a mechanic which makes a strong player stronger effectively, and the implants still do not offer a real choice. while it got better, most t5 ships however are borderline unusable, even with full purple fits. you have nonstop mass guard play, or octopus hunts, while many ships in the t5 line are completely unimportant. and i think if we talk about ecms, we only talk about wakiAE; because honestly, except the calltrop, you have not much choice.
I know it is off topic but what ships do you think are unimportant? I agree that some rank 13 ships are not good (Sword anyone?) but most if not all the ships in the tier are good, or can fulfill roles none other can.
I will not say anything against your opinion, but generalizing like that will get you nowhere and also won’t provide an accurate assessment. In fact there is 2 players from OWL using this. Just because 2 of them use it doesn’t mean that the DD ecm is our standard repartoir.
So don’t dip ones individum into the DD sauce just because you met OTHER owls doing it.
The only OWLs I’ve fought against (4 out of 5) use that setup…
Abuse of the DD is plain disgusting in higher teirs, and quite annoying in lower teirs.
Also fixed your typos.
I think I mustn’t have stressed this enough in my original post: some of the thoughts are shared by me, others I disagree with, still more I honestly haven’t come to an opinion about yet. I thought the important or interesting thing was to try having a bit of a chat about which factors seemed to be the top ones. I purposefully did not mention my own views because I’m put off posting on the forum because of the way people tend to be put down by people being really dismissive, condescending and generally unpleasant for no good reason. It didn’t occur to me that simply the act of putting the usual complaints into a single (obviously longer) post would be something people would find fault with.
Something I thought I had made very clear but some seem to be missing: yes, I know people leave games and that’s obviously normal, same goes for just playing games less. The point I made was that I had noticed it happening significantly more recently. I had felt the problem began before sector being halted, but I couldn’t be certain.
As g4borg said, I’m not looking at the detail of specific issues that much, it’s more figuring out where the main issues are and how likely they are to be resolvable.
In for a penny in for a pound though, personally the grind has never bothered me and I have found that through team-play I would always strive to learn to fly better and not just synergise. So encouraging team-play is important. But when you prioritise making squads find it easier to get battles you can through out the match-maker, which is what’s pissing off a load more people. Personally I’d rather have some unbalanced games with squads than find it hard to get a squadded match, but that’s just me.
About ships, I think guards need a nerf but aren’t as bad as a lot of people think (frigballs can be broken but it’s currently too hard). When it comes to drones, I think they’re op: while I can understand wanting to make it ok for people who find the game harder, this isn’t an excuse for being able to kill ships without skill in my opinion, which is often what it comes down to.
Main things I think need to be sorted: frigballs, high iridium cost of dreadnought stuff, drones and advertising. The latter of which is being sorted and should hopefully make a big difference to match-making problems.
So I think a lot of it just requires patience, but there’s no harm in talking it through to see what people’s main worries are. At least it seems like there are some similar themes, that most people agree on them, and that it looks like a good proportion are going to be worked on.
And obviously tarring all Owls with the same brush about DDs is ridiculous. I’ve used them all of a handful of times (mostly special ops) and I’m not even an officer: it’s not my place to be telling others how to load their ships even though I too think it’s really bad using them in lower tiers.
And obviously tarring all Owls with the same brush about DDs is ridiculous. I’ve used them all of a handful of times (mostly special ops) and I’m not even an officer: it’s not my place to be telling others how to load their ships even though I too think it’s really bad using them in lower tiers.
Low teirs- Just why… please…
High teirs- Okay, dude, you can seriously stop. A Cruise missile is far better…
Rank 10+…- … Just no.
Yep, point 3 and 4 for me are the main reason i play less (and when i do, i usually squad up). The lead direction taken by this game is clearly devoted to cheap tactics (frigballs everywhere, who brings frigs first win, even in detonation… just an example but i also see tackler’s spam or ecm spam working astonishing well) and cheap autofire/autoaim/faf/spamming weapons.
Just to avoid that guys who doesn’t care about a fun match and spent huge loads of money to buy/get all ships won’t left the game and keep spending their money.
I don’t care if i lost against a more skilled squad or player, it’s a way to let me think how to improve myself. But sadly that is the past… in the present: almost 90% of the time i got defeated, i’m experiencing only frustration 'cause: unless you don’t use the same “cheap weapons”, or their counter, there’s almost no way you can break some game dynamics. And this is not funny at all, cause those are MOBA dynamics, not SHOOTER’s ones. If i want to play like that, out there it’s plenty of that stuff.
I know it is off topic but what ships do you think are unimportant? I agree that some rank 13 ships are not good (Sword anyone?) but most if not all the ships in the tier are good, or can fulfill roles none other can.
Sword is actually nice, with bubbles. But the truth is still, you have always a better choice in T5 for the job at hand - in this case mostly the Aura; most games are straight forward one objective: kill. engineers like the osprey, even the naga, mammoth and t-rex pale in the face of an octopus. would you take any other ecm than the waki-ae or calltrop for sure? there is unfortunately only one fed gunship. but still, would you take it or the apollo instead of lightbringer, spark or mjolnir? it’s not that others aren’t viable, especially i loved the apollo. but at the same time, it makes little sense not to take the strongest of the strong; in t3, i could take any R8 and R9 ship, and perform well, no matter if white or premium or dlc. except maybe the dragonfly, that has just little usage besides the katana-s and the strong, well except you do cruise lolfits. maybe snipers are an exception.
but since the number of ships in t5 is also not that great, of course, you are right, that it’s not that big of a deal.
The Sword-AE for me is missing the sight range bonus, since this also makes lions much more viable as tacklers. There is no real long range tackling ship.
The only OWLs I’ve fought against (4 out of 5) use that setup…
can’t be true. I only know 2 who are using it. i know also a lot of people not in owl using it. stop generalizing, it’s not like all owls have the same face. i have enough doomsdays to level a planet, because i do not use them at all. the only ship equipped with it was a Kite-E, a T1 ceptor, which i used to take in T3 battles only, and the lightbringer which i use in pve missions.
also we dont play lower tiers, so I don’t think, you see them in T2 with it. T3 is the mid-tier, it’s not a lower tier. R8 and R9 games are not so dissimilar to T4 or T5, even if they are still different.
Besides, complaining about DD in T3 is just ridiculous. A Torp is better than those DDs, and once you learned to evade them, they are useless and expensive junk. DD’s are really not an issue, besides of who uses it. Adapt, it’s really not that hard to spot it, and turn into it at couple hundred meter range. because that thing has almost no turnrate at all.
Please learn to respect or hate each forum member as an individual.
We do not put up an agenda which ships or tactics to use for our members, and I do not think, we will ever enforce that, so you have to deal with the individuals. It’s cheap, admittedly, to ecm-doomsday a captain e.g. Just don’t assume we are not trashing each other for those choices as well. We play enough against ourselves.
In T1, T2 there should be no doomsday or damage should be scaled down, i agree there.
The only OWLs I’ve fought against (4 out of 5) use that setup…
Not true at all, just two of us use that fit, and you can clearly know who if you watch our videos. And most of all as G4b said it’s not like the others approve that, but since we are not pretending to tells people what to do: they can fly what they want. Just don’t generalize.