Destroyers - biggest guns, most health. Pick one.

Suggestions Balance
1

The Destroyers are blatantly broken. They have more raw firepower than any other ship, and can cripple enemy ships even at extreme range - they are more threatening from 8-10K than Long Range Frigates are! Built for close quarters brawling, nothing will stand against them. Built for sniping, nothing will ever reach them.

 

Combined with this is their phenomenal survivability. Destroyers simply cannot be engaged 1 on 1 by any other ship class. Even a specially built destroyer-killer will only be a match to a poorly built and badly piloted Destroyer. Only by getting multiple ships focus firing onto the Destroyer can you hope to beat one, and even then you really need either a Plasma Arc Cov-Ops, Anomaly spamming Guard or both to be piling on the dakka.

 

So what happens when two or three destroyers show up? You lose, of course! The game doesn’t require destroyers to be countered anymore, and I’ve seen several matches where one side has no destroyers at all because people chose not to spawn in them.

 

The intended balance method - destroyer vs destroyer, is not only a fundamentally stupid idea, not only broken because players aren’t forced to do it, but the devs stopped enforcing it themselves.

 

So we need to destroy the destroyer. Either it becomes a raw tank, able to soak up damage but lacking in firepower (meaning it relies exclusively on pyro beams and tempests for the bulk of its damage), or it becomes a glass cannon that cannot engage in close quarters and must hold at extreme range to survive.

 

Either of these would balance the class. But it can’t be both at once.

2

Don’t bother. It’s not worth it trying to make them understand. They are so fond of their destros and are scared that all the Aces that joined in January just because of destro launch will leave if they nerf them

3

The Destroyers are blatantly broken. They have more raw firepower than any other ship, and can cripple enemy ships even at extreme range - they are more threatening from 8-10K than Long Range Frigates are! Built for close quarters brawling, nothing will stand against them. Built for sniping, nothing will ever reach them.

*Exactly that’s what big ships are build for … on purpose … by design … 

 

 

Combined with this is their phenomenal survivability. Destroyers simply cannot be engaged 1 on 1 by any other ship class. Even a specially built destroyer-killer will only be a match to a poorly built and badly piloted Destroyer. Only by getting multiple ships focus firing onto the Destroyer can you hope to beat one, and even then you really need either a Plasma Arc Cov-Ops, Anomaly spamming Guard or both to be piling on the dakka.

*Exactly that’s what big ships are build for … on purpose … by design …

*That’s what maketh the attempt to build a destroyer-killer all that interesting … btw “yes, we can”

 

 

So what happens when two or three destroyers show up? You lose, of course! The game doesn’t require destroyers to be countered anymore, and I’ve seen several matches where one side has no destroyers at all because people chose not to spawn in them.

*O.k. but that’s your freedom of personal choice

*Sometimes you loose and cannot blame it on destroyers …

 

 

The intended balance method - destroyer vs destroyer, is not only a fundamentally stupid idea, not only broken because players aren’t forced to do it, but the devs stopped enforcing it themselves.

*Try to stay polite and reasonable, not everything you personally dislike requires the pejorative label “stupid”

*You have a strong opinion, but you may as well be wrong … repetition doesn’t necessarily improve quality

 

 

So we need to destroy the destroyer. Either it becomes a raw tank, able to soak up damage but lacking in firepower (meaning it relies exclusively on pyro beams and tempests for the bulk of its damage), or it becomes a glass cannon that cannot engage in close quarters and must hold at extreme range to survive.

 

Either of these would balance the class. But it can’t be both at once.

*You are welcome to build the destroyer you like, anytime, there is the right-mouse-click menu in the ships tree :: " Refit ship"

*Your once again nerf-proposal (suggestion to lessen power) will most likely not be implemented , as has been stated many times so far, if I am not wrong …

 

Conclusion: This is another post of a argued suggestion to nerf (lessen in power) the destroyer class ships in this game, most of it has been answered so far at length and repeatedly so. In my opinion there is nothing further to say here. This is a contentual doublette and should be closed.

4

*Exactly that’s what big ships are build for … on purpose … by design … 

This is a game with fixed numbers per side. In reality, big ships are a choice between having a single, powerful vessel or multiple smaller vessels. In reality, we can choose to have one huge battleship or four frigates each with 1/4 of the firepower. In Star Conflict, we have four ships per side and each player can either pick a Destroyer, or a ship that is 1/4th as capable.

 

So if one side gets a Destroyer and the other does not, it’s effectively a 7 v 4 match.

 

*O.k. but that’s your freedom of personal choice

*Sometimes you loose and cannot blame it on destroyers …

Sometimes you cannot win because Destroyers are in your match. Sometimes you cannot win because the only person who could counter a destroyer, didn’t.

 

This doesn’t happen with any other class. There is no other class where one side having it and you don’t, or one side having it and you not having a purpose built counter will cost you the game before you even spawn.

 

*Try to stay polite and reasonable, not everything you personally dislike requires the pejorative label “stupid”

*You have a strong opinion, but you may as well be wrong … repetition doesn’t necessarily improve quality

Stupid is the correct word. “lacking intelligence or common sense.”

 

A ship class has been added to the game that is overpowered and outside of the established game balance, and then actively disabling the mechanics that were designed to prevent these ships from dominating the game and producing no-win situations is, by definition, stupid.

 

 

Conclusion: This is another post of a argued suggestion to nerf (lessen in power) the destroyer class ships in this game, most of it has been answered so far at length and repeatedly so. In my opinion there is nothing further to say here. This is a  contentual doublette  and should be closed.

Yes, your conclusion is “it’s broke so shut up.” Don’t waste our time replying to topics if you don’t actually have anything to say.

 

We’ve already proven with squad based matchmaking that people like you are the problem. Telling us to shut up about broken ships won’t get them fixed - bringing them up constantly could get something done.

5

I direct your attention to this statement on the subject of Squads, which is something that will absolutely never ever happen as we’ve been told many times for six months.

 

 

 

We took some notes from you guys, and actualy have some plan now. One thing I can say for sure, that we will not gathering all the pilots in squads forcibly, but I believe you’ll have your anticipated team based Star Conflict gameplay. It’ll happen, not so soon I guess, but it will  ![012j.png](< base_url >/public/style_emoticons/default/012j.png)

 

Huh. It’s almost like telling the Devs we had a problem with their choices led to changes being made…

6

Destroyers are perfectly fine.

They just belong to be mixed with regular ships. That’s it.

7

[Summary of Possible Solutions](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/30458-synopsis-of-apologies-for-the-case-for-squads-in-pvp/)

 

Discussion on Destroyers

 

:fed001:

8

I’m fine with the amount of firepower destroyers can throw around since it is mostly inaccurate area-effective artillery fire. As long as the devs never give them any hitscan beam main guns they should be mostly fine in this regard.

Right now it is just the Gravitational Lens that is horribly overpowered. Jericho ships get torn apart in a few seconds because that single hull slot they typically have is usually used for Passive Armor or Lightweight Hull rather than kinetic resistance. Their frigates cannot even get away from the damaging AoE with basic afterburn speed and will inevitably be destroyed. And then all the beacon capture bullshit and destroyers merrily sitting in middle of their own blackholes. Gravitational Lens should have its damaging AoE reduced significantly, and firing it should work like Anomaly Generator; that is, the destroyer would need to stay still to fire it, and any ships targeted with it could move out of way to effectively waste the shot. Also, blackhole should do damage to the destroyer itself, and preferrably to rest of their team as well.

Durability of destroyers then is completely out of line. They’re barely three times the size of a frigate, and often more mobile than a frigate, so it would make sense that their durability would be at most about twice that of a frigate. Right now their hull durability is often more than ten times that of a guard frigate, and their Static Shields and Heavy Repair Drones give them phenomenal longevity. The situation is so absurd that the devs just cannot be oblivious to it, and since they apparently choose to have these Aces’ dream ships around breaking the game, it probably is pointless to ask for destroyer hull durability to be reduced to less than a quarter of current.

9

I don’t think black hole should damage everything, that would discourage any fighting. Self damage would at least make them think about sitting inside it or launching one close to themselves.

 

I thought black hole was only supposed to damage a % of the hull or is that only with certain ship class?

Still dealing kinetic damage proportional to x% of hull volume so that ships can build for kinetic resist if they want.

10

Right now it is just the Gravitational Lens that is horribly overpowered.

Has been fixed with today’s patch.

11

*Exactly that’s what big ships are build for … on purpose … by design … 

 

*Exactly that’s what big ships are build for … on purpose … by design …

*That’s what maketh the attempt to build a destroyer-killer all that interesting … btw “yes, we can”

 

*O.k. but that’s your freedom of personal choice

*Sometimes you loose and cannot blame it on destroyers …

 

*Try to stay polite and reasonable, not everything you personally dislike requires the pejorative label “stupid”

*You have a strong opinion, but you may as well be wrong … repetition doesn’t necessarily improve quality

 

*You are welcome to build the destroyer you like, anytime, there is the right-mouse-click menu in the ships tree :: " Refit ship"

*Your once again nerf-proposal (suggestion to lessen power) will most likely not be implemented , as has been stated many times so far, if I am not wrong …

 

Conclusion: This is another post of a argued suggestion to nerf (lessen in power) the destroyer class ships in this game, most of it has been answered so far at length and repeatedly so. In my opinion there is nothing further to say here. This is a contentual doublette and should be closed.

This game is not about reality. I don’t care if a real Destroyer naval ship cannot be destroyed by a patrol boat because it’s supposed to be like that. This is a game, focused on PvP, so balance is the most important thing. You should be able to 1v1 every ship in the game. Of course, some ships are better at 1v1 than others, but every class has a chance against the other. This doesn’t apply to destroyers. 

 

I refuse to play them after I saw how incredibly overpowered they are, it feels like your opponents don’t stand a chance against you. 

 

Also, the argument that destroyers are OP because they can be only countered by other destroyers is incredibly strong, because that means that there’s no variety in the game. If the only way to stay competitive is using destroyers, than all the other ships become useless. But Devs won’t ever hear us… They think destroyers are perfectly fine because they are locked away by an immense grind wall, and that makes them money. 

 

They will never nerf the class, they put work into it and they think they are balanced as they are. 

 

In my opinion, the only way to balance destroyer is to add another even bigger class, specifically built to take them down, but useless against all the smaller crafts. 

12

Some things idont understand.

 

First there is a Guide that shows how one single Covert Ops Ship can destroy a destroyer. What about that?

 

Second, the destroyers lack the special powers of other ships. The best example is the engineer. A team with an engineer and Destroers will easily rape a team of only destroyers. This goes for other special abilities, they are needed, for example the debuff abilities of tackler or recon decloak. A destroyer simply cannot do that.

13

Some things idont understand.

First there is a Guide that shows how one single Covert Ops Ship can destroy a destroyer. What about that?

Second, the destroyers lack the special powers of other ships. The best example is the engineer. A team with an engineer and Destroers will easily rape a team of only destroyers. This goes for other special abilities, they are needed, for example the debuff abilities of tackler or recon decloak. A destroyer simply cannot do that.

You know what counters a covops?

Guard pulsar spam.

Engi drone spam.

ECM n00bs.

Tackler rectal exploration.

Any ship + L33t aim skillz.

What counters a destroyer?

Another, better destroyer.

A covops + empty space with no other enemies within 20km.

See the problem yet?

14

So you say the guide is a scam, only possible in a unrealistic environment and not usable in praxis?

15

So you say the guide is a scam, only possible in a unrealistic environment and not usable in praxis?

 

You should point to the guide you are talking about, because if it’s made by AdamWest… He is not an average cov ops pilot. He is way better. Have you tried to do the same? To kill a destroyer with a cov ops?

16

You should point to the guide you are talking about, because if it’s made by AdamWest… He is not an average cov ops pilot. He is way better. Have you tried to do the same? To kill a destroyer with a cov ops?

 

To be quite frank I find it easier to kill a destroyer with a kinetic supercharger ECM than a Cov Ops.  Explosive kinetic dmg with a DoT ftw.    I’ve also ruined plenty of Antares’ day with my tackler.   Most of them are speed/adaptive builds…take away that afterburner and they’re toast.  

 

There isn’t only 2 classes that counter destroyers…people just seem to think so.   This is just like before destroyers were released.  Sometimes you have to play a class you didn’t want to (engi, ecm, command) to ensure proper team comps and that enemy ships are countered.   This is how you win the majority of your games.

17

 

 

You are right. I have said this lots of times, but i’m going to say again. The only thing i ask for is less wormhole projector for dessies in PVP and tournaments.

18

I could not kill a mouse with a CovOps.

 

So, u are saying the complete opposite from Jasan Quinn. Great. So in between “Destroyers should half half hull” and “destroyers are ok” i suppose destroyers are a little bit better then other ships.

19

Thats how opinions and personal perception are: they differ a lot.

I dont like PVP so i havent played much (specially with destroyer or vs destroyer in smaller ships. Although ive played a lot dreads), but i can see issues in the current state of the game:

-Destroyers tank a lot, a bit too much for what i consider apropiate (so a small nerf to survability would do well), but not as much as jasan thinks.

-Static shields withstand a lot: this makes non piercing/explosive weapons useless. Im totally in pro to reduce their a) toughness or b) increase their cooldown by a lot. Consider than static shields can block about 90% of a meson cannon fire.

-gravity lenses dmg range: 1km radius combined with a long duration makes capping beacons extremately hard. Duration is fine, but range of dmg prevents cap in a large area.

-Wormhole provides the mobility all frigates envy, although 1 min reload time forces players to use it wisely. As i proposed in my concept for destroyer, wormhole should be only intented to dodge fire (1-2km range) and not to advance large distances. A Destroyer without wormhole is close to a sitting duck…except for fed version cause they are fed (meaning less firepower and durability (adaptives are easy to counter)).

I think that destroyer dmg is quite well as it is, considering that positioning (like doing a proper broadside) is key to manage dmg and modules effectively and that the dmg looses a lot of power at medium and long distances due to high spread or low projectile speed.

Repairing drones are well balanced imo: a brave with 130k hull (no volume mods) takes 4 minutes to fully heal if maintaining both drones always active.

20

nope destroyer are fine like this no need to change anything, and again the number of destroyer in match doesn’t guarantee a victory.