Destroyers are "destroying" pvp game-play.

Game Discussion PvP
61

The Broker’s Power Play mission is the cause of suppressors saturating pvp. Every single person with a r8 destroyer who wants a r11 one is motivated to defeat 20 enemy ships in pvp. Once this is no longer active, destroyer action will settle down.

 

I am having a hard time figuring out what to do with a command or a gunship with enemy destroyers in the zone. I am experiencing full matches of peekaboo behind walls & rocks. Every time I expose main weapons, it’s like a thermal Mass Inverter of aoe damage coming from everywhere. It goes something like: hit F for gunship overdrive then hide again because I’m almost dead already.

62

…Once this is no longer active, destroyer action will settle down…

 

I’m afraid you wrong. Team with more Destroyers has the upper hand and this causes arms race in PvP. As an argument you may have noticed Meson Canons “projecting freedom” when broker’s mission is for Coilgun.

63

Just wait until you encounter a meson dessy like me. I have but 3k range but it pretty much insta-kills anything in-range.

64

Just wait until you encounter a meson dessy like me. I have but 3k range but it pretty much insta-kills anything in-range.

soo your dps is near that of 3x LRFs on ship with >100k hit points?

I don’t see how that could go wrong :012j:

65

soo your dps is near that of 3x LRFs on ship with >100k hit points?

I don’t see how that could go wrong :012j:

Yup. Great for taking down attacking CovOps, but everything that stays out of range will easily whittle me down unfortunately.

66

What bothers me is that it requires a lot less skill to fly and not die in a destoyer then opposed to that same player flying a guard or any other ship for that matter. For some reason it doesnt feel fair to give every player a tank with massive attack and HP with lots of auto firing turrets. Somehow I feel this lowers the overall niveau of the player base and punishes the player not using a destroyer.

  • another thing; compared to guards, slow empire fighters and engis with no warp gate, destroyer have a huge advantage even on big maps since they got wormhole. Im not sure that is fair, in a way it has too great an impact on gameplay and game dynamics, especially on game mode such as domination, beacon hunt. IMO the game dynamics suffered a great deal when destros got introduced.  
67

Well, I am so pissed now. Every single game now in T3 has destroyers. Last night 12v12. 10 destroyers on one side, 4 on the other. It was a domination on this small 10x10k map. They just jumped in threes to the middle and that was that. 7k mesons were just covering the whole frigging map. after a minute 5 of them just jumped to our spawn. Now dear developers. Please tell me - what ship combination of random players is supposed to counter that? Those weren’t experienced players, some of them with few hundred battles only. And they could spawncamp players with thousands of battles, but without destroyers. Now as we can see, skill and experience doesn’t have anything to do with winning and spawncamping. It leaves…surprise…the equipment. 

Few ideas

    • make their weapons short range. Like up to 3k. Typhoon is ok - it’s a missile launcher
    • longer cooldown on wormhole generator. 
    • give players an option for MM to find other players without destroyers
    • remove destroyers from normal PvP

One other thing. “MOST OF THE PLAYERS” I was talking to within last week describes current PvP gameplay as " r e t a r d e d". I think it means something (and yes those players were from RU and international base, ranging from newbies, straight to top corps players).

 

I know that devs will not even read this, so… I just had to vent.

68

I think the biggest problem is their unbalanced respawn time or generally all the problems around how spawning is done.

 

while i am generally not in favor of the respawn logic of SC, which usually makes a losing team even fall apart completely in pubs, or favors actually “coward” gameplay most of the time, even in higher classes of gameplay, i just got used to it.

 

But consider, the impact it has on the game, that all ships have the same point weight; so no matter if i kill an underranked interceptor or a whole team ganks a destro, the team loses the same amount of points / gains the same amount of points.

 

I know, this is counter intuitive for some, and many of you may blame different things. But seriously if it comes down to why they are unfair, its non of the other reasons imho, mainly. Destros are neither “wrong” in the gameplay, nor per se making games worse, as sometimes, they actually create new interesting situations in this game, and can break (however also enforce) spawn camps (which again is a problem of the respawn logic, and was here before destros). Not saying, that personally, I find them slightly OP aswell, but maybe I like the challenge.

 

This problem affects not just destros, but many other areas of the game aswell, from the nubiest pvp battles up to how leagues are played. The problem of spawn camps is basicly coming from the dynamics of the game, so the game mechanics of how respawns and points are handled, over time, not the individual problems of ships. Even Ping is a bigger issue there. 

 

Which is, why the team battle game mode feels sometimes like the “true” soul of SC. It’s a bit of a pity to be honest, as it wasnt always like this, but it became more and more a cookie cutter game, which never “re-brainstormed” it’s “spawn mechanics” for 3 yrs - and could also need more thought on the point system.

 

I am just pointing out, since I am also believing, the devs will slowly balance them more in, but instead of switching back and forth to “balance the ship class”, it should also be “balanced in the game mode”

69

Well, I am so pissed now. Every single game now in T3 has destroyers. Last night 12v12. 10 destroyers on one side, 4 on the other. It was a domination on this small 10x10k map. They just jumped in threes to the middle and that was that. 7k mesons were just covering the whole frigging map. after a minute 5 of them just jumped to our spawn. Now dear developers. Please tell me - what ship combination of random players is supposed to counter that? Those weren’t experienced players, some of them with few hundred battles only. And they could spawncamp players with thousands of battles, but without destroyers. Now as we can see, skill and experience doesn’t have anything to do with winning and spawncamping. It leaves…surprise…the equipment. 

Few ideas

    • make their weapons short range. Like up to 3k. Typhoon is ok - it’s a missile launcher
    • longer cooldown on wormhole generator. 
    • give players an option for MM to find other players without destroyers
    • remove destroyers from normal PvP

One other thing. “MOST OF THE PLAYERS” I was talking to within last week describes current PvP gameplay as " r e t a r d e d". I think it means something (and yes those players were from RU and international base, ranging from newbies, straight to top corps players).

 

I know that devs will not even read this, so… I just had to vent.

Well on Sunday I got a brilliant match with 5 destros + 3 engis on enemy team. Guess what team won with just 2 on our side.

70

I think I have a really good reason as to why destroyers need to be adjusted :

 

You can kill an interceptor in 2 seconds.

You can kill a fighter in 3 seconds

You can kill a engi in 7 seconds.

You can kill a destroyer in 2 min 10 seconds.  (this wasn’t even an extremely well tanked destroyer either)
 

https://youtu.be/jf2cUQRN6nI?t=243

71

I think I have a really good reason as to why destroyers need to be adjusted :

You can kill an interceptor in 2 seconds.

You can kill a fighter in 3 seconds

You can kill a engi in 7 seconds.

You can kill a destroyer in 2 min 10 seconds. (this wasn’t even an extremely well tanked destroyer either)

https://youtu.be/jf2cUQRN6nI?t=245

What is this? A mathematical DPS vs survivability thing? I can tell you right now that none of these statistics are accurate unless the target is sitting still and not even trying(or well built).

72

What is this? A mathematical DPS vs survivability thing? I can tell you right now that none of these statistics are accurate unless the target is sitting still and not even trying(or well built).

No this is not a mathematical thing at all.  It’s a simple portion of the video below.  In the video content captured those were the actual numbers when going against those ships.

 

https://youtu.be/jf2cUQRN6nI?t=243

73

Regardless of th experience shown in the video, these stats are anything but accurate as a standalone stat or an average. Especially in any given PvP game.

You of all people should know that it takes so much longer to kill any given craft in a destroyer.

74

Regardless of th experience shown in the video, these stats are anything but accurate as a standalone stat or an average. Especially in any given PvP game.

Fair enough, All i m looking to state is there is a big leap in EHP from a 57,237 EHP stix to a 302,381 EHP Archon.  That is not debatable.

75

Fair enough, All i m looking to state is there is a big leap in EHP from a 57,237 EHP stix to a 302,381 EHP Archon. That is not debatable.

Oh well yeah. It has a heap more health. XD

Though keep in mind that a well-placed plasma knife+Orion can destroy an archon in about 4-5 seconds, given the right build.

76

Though keep in mind that a well-placed plasma knife+Orion can destroy an archon in about 4-5 seconds, given the right build.

 

You need to teach me your magic.  4-5 seconds and you can kill an Archon !!!  WOW

 

Full Synergized Archon hull = 84700 (add fitting approx 111300)

So lets say a perfect ark beyond perfect a impossible ark and you get the router, engine and 4 active modules:

 

Router = 10K (approx)

Engine = 10K (approx)

4 Active - 20K (approx)

Total = 40K damage not bad.

 

Add 21K from the ark on a kite. but remove 49.9% damage due to resist from fitting.

 

Your still left with 30,000 - 50,000 hull tank.  Also I m implying the shields are already down. Unless I m totally missing something.  (Most of what I posted was based off the guide and fitting from Kost’s archon.)

77

I’m 90% sure that this was a new Archon with no synergy. Also it had no hull mods so it was non-resisted (to my knowledge). They had a shield post, tempest, pyro, and wormhole. I have exact damage numbers for all this, but with a 10k/s damage knife they melted like butter. They had like 1/25 hull left so a quick Orion took them out the rest of the way.

It was a beautiful thing.

78

It shouldn’t be left to people who live in the server room to be able to kill them though :slight_smile:

79

Of course! Anyone can kill them with this little thing called “teamwork”! Xp

80

Of course! Anyone can kill them with this little thing called “teamwork”! Xp

As Dirk always said, “Just focus-fire the entire enemy team!”