Its has neither the firepower nor the survivability of a frigate. Try reading my posts again.
TBH i think the problem is that you think a frigate should win a 1on1 against just anyone. Well thanks that there’s ONE class of ships from ONE faction who stands a slight chance.
Well thats not true, the Phobos Aura is also a command ship and i prefer it over the Deimos 2. There’s lots of command ships in the other tiers, don’t know where you were looking
Eerr what? The best I can equip in T2 is Composite Armor T2 MkIII which gives 18 to all resists.
The one I’m talking about is an active that lasts 8 seconds. Adaptive Armor mark I gives +60 to all, higher marks give even more. It does take up an active slot, but I’ve found that it’s very hard to kill a ship with it running.
And I was specific about Legion faction ships. T2 is kind of an anomaly, if you look at the other Legion fighters in higher tiers (Kastor 2, Prometheus 2) they all have the Tackler role, so giving Legion overdrive a bonus to Command modules just for the Deimos 2 would be totally lost on those ships.
Also, I agree with Kyoss and want to add something to support his idea of tier-based balance: Many of the counters that frigates have (missiles defense, propulsion inhibitors, weapon inhibitors) don’t become available until T3, so while T2 can feel like the frigate class has its full equipment set, it really doesn’t. I haven’t heard about the same problem with any other tiers, so maybe T2 is just where Overdrive fighters have their day before being rendered ineffective by frigates and interceptors. As I’ve said before, I don’t play much T3, it’s a little rich for my blood in terms of repair costs.
You have complete description of the overdrive boost in the tooltip. You just have to press the alt key as stated at the bottom of the tooltip window.
And I really don’t agree with your point of view. Seriously, 3 fighters not able to shoot down a Deimos holding an EMP (and the mobility nerd it gives) really need to rethink their fitting. Did you see tem try to switch the damage type ? My Deimos is fitted to resist very strongly to some kind of damage, but is a lot weaker for other. And you can see that ingame, with the tab menu.
And the fact that a fighter can take down a frigate is pure logic : that’s what they are made for. Frigates are support ships, that are here to support a fight by giving boost and healing to fighters. I think you just got bad habits with your overpowered tier 1 and 2 federation fighter. Try at tier 4 to fight with a frigate, you’ll see. Even at T3 it’s quite impossible alone.
And once again, seriously, this ship can be easily taken down. I think that I’m quite good with it, and some times I get raped in a few seconds.
Honestly, before proposing the death of overdrive, try to play the damn ship. Get raped a few games. You’ll surely change your point of view.
I too find some ships overpowered…
Well the formula for damage taken is like 1 / 1+(R/100).
So at higher resists its very diminishing. Resist 100 redudes damage by 50%, Resist 200 redudes it by 67%…
While i can get my empire fighter’s resist above 200 at times, i wonder if its even worth it.
The one I’m talking about is an active that lasts 8 seconds. Adaptive Armor mark I gives +60 to all, higher marks give even more. It does take up an active slot, but I’ve found that it’s very hard to kill a ship with it running.
Oh that one. Yeah i run that too. As my hull resists are already around 100, this comes down to 17% dmg reduction for 8 seconds, so its not really much. I would rather have 50% more hull, but I cant.
I stick to that statement. We can test when you want.
Dear Froggy , When 5 People pick the Deimos 2 in one Match there is not much you can do to stop but revert to the only viable tactic and fly the same ship.
What people talk about here is Balance and the Overdrive is not the Issue for the Deimos, it is the Absurdly high Damage Resistances it can develop. They are so high that you have a hard time with 2 Fighter Ships Dishing out all 3 kinds of Damage to bring on of that Suckers down. And i talk about real Teamplay here.
I just strongly dislike a ship that can eat more thane the respective Frigate of their Faction. So i’d ask to have a Nerv on their Resistances because taking the Overdrive out would be just sad for the People having mastered that. I also like just switching to overdrive but beeing able to steamroll a Frigate in less than 3 Seconds should not be the Point of it.
It comes down to who flies the right Hardware to win and our only luck so far is that to many not as advanced pilots still go rather for the Easy Kills in Frigates. But still the Imperial Fighters are messing up a lot of the Arcarde Matches. Because on Ship with a skilled pilot can draw 3 Enemys 2 ships 6 and with 4 or 5 of them buggers it’s just no fun to play spacebubble for absolutely no skill but pressing one Button and holding a mouse steady.
No flaming or so intended just my point of View mate, see you in space 
Sry double post
Dear Froggy , When 5 People pick the Deimos 2 in one Match there is not much you can do to stop but revert to the only viable tactic and fly the same ship.
What people talk about here is Balance and the Overdrive is not the Issue for the Deimos, it is the Absurdly high Damage Resistances it can develop. They are so high that you have a hard time with 2 Fighter Ships Dishing out all 3 kinds of Damage to bring on of that Suckers down. And i talk about real Teamplay here.
I just strongly dislike a ship that can eat more thane the respective Frigate of their Faction. So i’d ask to have a Nerv on their Resistances because taking the Overdrive out would be just sad for the People having mastered that. I also like just switching to overdrive but beeing able to steamroll a Frigate in less than 3 Seconds should not be the Point of it.
First, there are 12 tier 2 fighters, I highly doubt you are forced to pick 1 ship just because lots of other people are.
Second, if you tank 1 resist, switch damage type. That is why from tier 2 they allow this, it is 1 button. And if you do not have that module loaded, then that is your error.
Lastly, just like you, if that frigate isn’t setup to tank it can be extremely squishy, I find all in all I usually destroy the enemy frigate first when I surprise it.
There are 6 faction tier 2 fighters (Plus base fighters that are not on the same scale. Plus DLC and premium fighters that are not comparable either.)
Alright, let’s just do some math.
Base Deimos 2 with no Synergy has:
Hull HP: 7130
Kinetic: -5 (Effective: 6,774)
EM: 50 (Effective: 10,695)
THM: 25 (Effective: 8,913)
Shield HP: 4030
Kinetic: 40 (Effective: 5,642)
EM: -20 (Effective: 3,224)
THM: 10 (Effective: 4,433)
Maximum effective hitpoints: 16,337
Now we add:
+30 Hull resistance (Jericho Rank 1 implant)
+50 Hull resistance (Overdrive ability)
+28 hull resistance (Polarization Coating Module)
+23 Shield resistance (Aegis Shield Module)
+25 Shield resistance (Jericho Rank 3 implant)
+42 EM shield resistance (EM Barrier Module)
+45% hull strength (Armor Plated Hull Module)
+12.5% hull strength (Ablative Armour Module)
+30% Shield strength (Shield Projection Splitter Module)
And get:
Hull HP: 11230
Kinetic: 103 (Effective: 22,797)
EM: 158 (Effective: 28,973)
THM: 133 (Effective: 26,166)
Shield HP: 5239
Kinetic: 88 (Effective: 9,849)
EM: 70 (Effective: 8,906)
THM: 58 (Effective: 8,277)
Maximum Effective HP: 38,822
Let’s compare to the Jericho Machete Type S, probably the next tankiest, non-empire fighter:
Base Model, no synergy:
Hull HP: 2785
Kinetic: -5 (Effective: 2,646)
EM: 55 (Effective: 4,317)
THM: 25 (Effective: 3,481)
Shield HP: 6820
Kinetic: 65 (Effective: 11,253)
EM: 5 (Effective: 7,161)
THM: 30 (Effective: 8,866)
Max Effective HP: 15,567
Now add:
+30 Hull resistance (Jericho Rank 1 implant)
+28 hull resistance (Polarization Coating Module)
+25 Shield resistance (Jericho Rank 3 implant)
+42 EM shield resistance (EM Barrier Module)
+40 Shield resistance (Only one type - applied to Kinetic to maximize HP)
+45% hull strength (Armor Plated Hull Module)
+12.5% Shield strength (Shield Module)
+30% Shield strength (Shield Projection Splitter Module)
And you get:
Hull HP: 3899
Kinetic: 53 (Effective: 5,966)
EM: 113 (Effective: 8,305)
THM: 83 (Effective: 7,135)
Shield HP: 9719
Kinetic: 130 (Effective: 22,354)
EM: 72 (Effective: 16,717)
THM: 55 (Effective: 15,065)
Max Effective HP: 30,659
Deimos 2 Speed: 160m/s
Afterburner: 280m/s
Machete Type S Speed: 169.6m/s
Afterburner: 296.8m/s
These two fighters should in theory be relatively similar in ability. However, I note a marked difference when fighting the two - the Deimos 2 is consistently tougher. That’s because the Deimos 2’s overdrive ability gives it a +50 resist bonus to everything AND increases its speed and maneuverability and firepower at the same time. Meanwhile the Machete needs to switch its resist bonus on the fly to the damage type it’s taking (Which you can rarely even tell in-game). Even so, the resist bonuses are less, and the ability can be defeated by the other player simply swapping damage type on the fly.
Frankly the easiest way to fix this seems to be to tone overdrive down to something reasonable, and reduce some of the base resists on the Deimos 2 until they’re more in line with the Type S Machete. The Overdrive ability needs to decide if it’s going to be an offensive or defensive module. Either +50 resist, or +66% rate of fire, not both, and the overall length of the ability should be reduced to prevent the ability for the pilot to waltz around half the map with an EMP bomb, getting blasted by an entire team, and still managing to plant it. I’d suggest a 10-12 second timer, on a 45-60 second cooldown.
I don’t believe in your maths. Try them out both. I did.
You have complete description of the overdrive boost in the tooltip. You just have to press the alt key as stated at the bottom of the tooltip window.
It says: “Increases fire rate by 66% and energy regeneration speed, max speed, strafe speed, and rotation speed by 17 sec.”
I think it’s a typographical error of some kind, or perhaps a translation error, but unless it increases all of those by 66% I have no clue what percent it increases the last four by. There’s no percentage associated with them, just a time.
What Reconciliation is saying at the end of his post, I pretty much agree with. Currently, Legion Overdrive is a “Make-my-ship-better-at-everything” button, and there’s no other special in the game that’s like that. If we took the three areas (damage, tank, speed) and made it better at just two of them instead of all three, I’d be fine with the ability and stop making long-winded posts about it on the forums.
None of you Deimos haters acknowledge the fact that this is a limited time buff.
17 seconds.
1/4 of the time.
None of you Deimos haters acknowledge the fact that this is a limited time buff.
17 seconds.
1/4 of the time.
I acknowledge it. I’m saying it lasts too long. It’s quite possible, and easy, to move into a group of enemies, kill some, and get out safely in 17 seconds. It should be hard to use the special in this way, a player without a good strategic mind should only be able to use it for either approach or retreat, not both.
The Federation fighters’s special is a limited-time ability too, but all it does is make it invisible. The Jericho fighter has a unique passive special, so it doesn’t count. Even for a limited-time special, Legion Overdrive is too strong.
@deggy2: the time of 17s is the duration. I agree this is poorly translated, I forgot.
I have a hint for you : in the game log, overdrive is called something like “time boost”. And I agree it behaves exactly a if time was accelerated. For everything, except regen and cool down.
@deggy2: the time of 17s is the duration. I agree this is poorly translated, I forgot.
I have a hint for you : in the game log, overdrive is called something like “time boost”. And I agree it behaves exactly a if time was accelerated. For everything, except regen and cool down.
Thanks. So the boosts are all 66%, across the board. I hadn’t thought of it as speeding up time, that’s a new way of characterizing it.
None of you Deimos haters acknowledge the fact that this is a limited time buff.
17 seconds.
1/4 of the time.
In 17 Seconds i take down 3 ships. Thats more than enough to unbalance any Dogfight.
Alright, let’s just do some math.
Base Deimos 2 with no Synergy has:
Hull HP: 7130
Kinetic: -5 (Effective: 6,774)
EM: 50 (Effective: 10,695)
THM: 25 (Effective: 8,913)
Shield HP: 4030
Kinetic: 40 (Effective: 5,642)
EM: -20 (Effective: 3,224)
THM: 10 (Effective: 4,433)
Maximum effective hitpoints: 16,337
Now we add:
+30 Hull resistance (Jericho Rank 1 implant)
+50 Hull resistance (Overdrive ability)
+28 hull resistance (Polarization Coating Module)
+23 Shield resistance (Aegis Shield Module)
+25 Shield resistance (Jericho Rank 3 implant)
+42 EM shield resistance (EM Barrier Module)
+45% hull strength (Armor Plated Hull Module)
+12.5% hull strength (Ablative Armour Module)
+30% Shield strength (Shield Projection Splitter Module)
And get:
Hull HP: 11230
Kinetic: 103 (Effective: 22,797)
EM: 158 (Effective: 28,973)
THM: 133 (Effective: 26,166)
Shield HP: 5239
Kinetic: 88 (Effective: 9,849)
EM: 70 (Effective: 8,906)
THM: 58 (Effective: 8,277)
Maximum Effective HP: 38,822
Let’s compare to the Jericho Machete Type S, probably the next tankiest, non-empire fighter:
Base Model, no synergy:
Hull HP: 2785
Kinetic: -5 (Effective: 2,646)
EM: 55 (Effective: 4,317)
THM: 25 (Effective: 3,481)
Shield HP: 6820
Kinetic: 65 (Effective: 11,253)
EM: 5 (Effective: 7,161)
THM: 30 (Effective: 8,866)
Max Effective HP: 15,567
Now add:
+30 Hull resistance (Jericho Rank 1 implant)
+28 hull resistance (Polarization Coating Module)
+25 Shield resistance (Jericho Rank 3 implant)
+42 EM shield resistance (EM Barrier Module)
+40 Shield resistance (Only one type - applied to Kinetic to maximize HP)
+45% hull strength (Armor Plated Hull Module)
+12.5% Shield strength (Shield Module)
+30% Shield strength (Shield Projection Splitter Module)
And you get:
Hull HP: 3899
Kinetic: 53 (Effective: 5,966)
EM: 113 (Effective: 8,305)
THM: 83 (Effective: 7,135)
Shield HP: 9719
Kinetic: 130 (Effective: 22,354)
EM: 72 (Effective: 16,717)
THM: 55 (Effective: 15,065)
Max Effective HP: 30,659
Deimos 2 Speed: 160m/s
Afterburner: 280m/s
Machete Type S Speed: 169.6m/s
Afterburner: 296.8m/s
These two fighters should in theory be relatively similar in ability. However, I note a marked difference when fighting the two - the Deimos 2 is consistently tougher. That’s because the Deimos 2’s overdrive ability gives it a +50 resist bonus to everything AND increases its speed and maneuverability and firepower at the same time. Meanwhile the Machete needs to switch its resist bonus on the fly to the damage type it’s taking (Which you can rarely even tell in-game). Even so, the resist bonuses are less, and the ability can be defeated by the other player simply swapping damage type on the fly.
Frankly the easiest way to fix this seems to be to tone overdrive down to something reasonable, and reduce some of the base resists on the Deimos 2 until they’re more in line with the Type S Machete. The Overdrive ability needs to decide if it’s going to be an offensive or defensive module. Either +50 resist, or +66% rate of fire, not both, and the overall length of the ability should be reduced to prevent the ability for the pilot to waltz around half the map with an EMP bomb, getting blasted by an entire team, and still managing to plant it. I’d suggest a 10-12 second timer, on a 45-60 second cooldown.
Exactly as you break down they should be more even but if you add that the deimos primarly gets though on the hull you have to peel down a layer of defence that is constantly recharging.
First, there are 12 tier 2 fighters, I highly doubt you are forced to pick 1 ship just because lots of other people are.
Second, if you tank 1 resist, switch damage type. That is why from tier 2 they allow this, it is 1 button. And if you do not have that module loaded, then that is your error.
Lastly, just like you, if that frigate isn’t setup to tank it can be extremely squishy, I find all in all I usually destroy the enemy frigate first when I surprise it.
My dear know it all, i do not fly a frigate per see. I did mention in my other post that a team mate and i did fly two Machetes with ALL 3 Damage types and got constantly outmatched by the Supertanks that should not be called balance. I don’t even say nerve the overdrive but balance down the resistances. And you JUST MADE the point the Imperial Frigate i fly does not OVERCOME the Fightership in resistances and has just a 1000 hp more that are what? 3 salvos in overdrive do you know how fast you flare thouse out?
@Reconciliation:
Nice numbers, of course you get the total HP by adding the highest values together, right?
That’s when people shoot with kinetic at the shield and with EM at the hull. Quite realistic, you know?
You also added the 50 hull resist permanently to the Deimos’ values, an oversight? I doubt it.
(You further assume all empire pilots grind 3 ranks in Jericho for the implants, but whatever).
Your numbers also totally ignore, that critical hits only work against hull, which is most dangerous to ships with small shields, i.e. Empire ships.
Last but not least, some of your numbers are way off:
Shield HP: 6820
Kinetic: 65 (Effective: 11,253)
65 Kinetic resistance results in 39,4% damage reduction, but you add almost 100% effective hp. Why that?
I also highly doubt “you can go in and kill 3 ships” in 17 seconds, unless its 3 afk interceptors. Also, your guns will overheat long before the 17 seconds are over.
Since this whole discussion seems to be about the Deimos, and not overdrive, its therefore about tier2, which is merely a stepstone to the higher tiers.
I wrote a lengthy thread about fighters in another part of this forum, and frankly, all other fighters need to be buffed up to Overdrive level, not the other way around.
Its funny, how in other threads people complain that Federation Fighters can hunt down interceptors, yet my fighter is the slowest brick on earth (max speed 295) and i have to ask our frigate in chat to wait for me when we fly in formation.
But hey, I got some fuel for your hate too, the Wardens Overdrive is the only skill in the entire game that can break a Stasis or any other form of stun. Which is why its much preferable over the Legions Overdrive in my book, and which is why I wouldn’t want to pilot any other fighter from T3 on.
And a last tip: If you think something is OP, abuse it until its removed. Thats the only way the devs will notice it anyway.
nice arguments Kyoss.
@Reconciliation:
Nice numbers, of course you get the total HP by adding the highest values together, right?
That’s when people shoot with kinetic at the shield and with EM at the hull. Quite realistic, you know?
You also added the 50 hull resist permanently to the Deimos’ values, an oversight? I doubt it.
(You further assume all empire pilots grind 3 ranks in Jericho for the implants, but whatever).
Your numbers also totally ignore, that critical hits only work against hull, which is most dangerous to ships with small shields, i.e. Empire ships.
Last but not least, some of your numbers are way off:
65 Kinetic resistance results in 39,4% damage reduction, but you add almost 100% effective hp. Why that?
I also highly doubt “you can go in and kill 3 ships” in 17 seconds, unless its 3 afk interceptors. Also, your guns will overheat long before the 17 seconds are over.
Since this whole discussion seems to be about the Deimos, and not overdrive, its therefore about tier2, which is merely a stepstone to the higher tiers.
I wrote a lengthy thread about fighters in another part of this forum, and frankly, all other fighters need to be buffed up to Overdrive level, not the other way around.
Its funny, how in other threads people complain that Federation Fighters can hunt down interceptors, yet my fighter is the slowest brick on earth (max speed 295) and i have to ask our frigate in chat to wait for me when we fly in formation.
But hey, I got some fuel for your hate too, the Wardens Overdrive is the only skill in the entire game that can break a Stasis or any other form of stun. Which is why its much preferable over the Legions Overdrive in my book, and which is why I wouldn’t want to pilot any other fighter from T3 on.
And a last tip: If you think something is OP, abuse it until its removed. Thats the only way the devs will notice it anyway.
This this this this this
@Reconciliation:
Nice numbers, of course you get the total HP by adding the highest values together, right?
That’s when people shoot with kinetic at the shield and with EM at the hull. Quite realistic, you know?
I did that for both the Machete and the Deimos to show what their maximum effective hitpoints are. Clearly you want the minimum effective hitpoints, this is easy to add, you could have done it yourself, but I will do it for you:
Deimos 2: 25,460 / 31,074 (Overdrive)
Machete Type S: 21,031
You also added the 50 hull resist permanently to the Deimos’ values, an oversight? I doubt it.
(You further assume all empire pilots grind 3 ranks in Jericho for the implants, but whatever).
I clearly pointed out that the Deimos 2’s values were in Overdrive. I state this clearly. I state what the Deimos 2’s hitpoints are like when it’s not in overdrive as well, I just didn’t want to further clutter things when we’re looking at the overdrive.
Your numbers also totally ignore, that critical hits only work against hull, which is most dangerous to ships with small shields, i.e. Empire ships.
Then do the math? Go ahead and show that 5% critical hits cause Deimos 2’s to spontaneously explode when they reach hull.
Last but not least, some of your numbers are way off:
65 Kinetic resistance results in 39,4% damage reduction, but you add almost 100% effective hp. Why that?
I also highly doubt “you can go in and kill 3 ships” in 17 seconds, unless its 3 afk interceptors. Also, your guns will overheat long before the 17 seconds are over.
Base hitpoints * ((100 + resistance) / 100) = Effective hitpoints. Feel free to do the math yourself, there is even a thread with an xls file that will do the hard work for you: http://forum.gaijinent.com/index.php?/topic/17624-balance-tool-stats-calculator/
You will get the same results I did. Perhaps the formula he and I have used is incorrect, feel free to show us the correct math. I have no issue with a fair evaluation of the numbers. Anyways, the value you take offense to actually raises the effective hitpoints of the Jericho fighter, if I were trying to lie, why would I increase the values on the Jericho fighter in this comparison, when I am showing that the Deimos 2 has too many hitpoints?
I am not sure what the comment about killing 3 ships in 17 seconds is about, I do not believe I made a statement along those lines at any point; you’ll have to provide some context.
What I do find interesting is that proponents of the Deimos 2 instantly call me a liar when I present the evidence that it does, indeed, have extremely high resistance and health values. I’m using data freely available to any of you. How about, instead of calling me a liar with no proof, you run the numbers yourselves and show that I was wrong? This is not hard - the data is there for you! You have access to the same pool of resources I did.
I’m not afraid to admit to a mistake, but you’re going to have to show it to me first, not just handwave my evidence away because it doesn’t jibe with your view of reality.
